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Old 20th January 2012, 19:06   #31
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Default Re: Tata Manza 1.3 Qjt OR Ford Fiesta Classic 1.4 TDCi

Sam, I feel as Gautam has suggested in his post, you should also TD other cars in this bracket before you finally decide.

Is there any reason why you just shortlisted these 2 cars?
If you go for a lower trim other cars like Linea etc., you should be very well within your 8L budget.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bblost View Post
To muddy the waters a little bit, while at a Tata dealership, take a TD of the new 2012 Linea D as well.
I am not good at this, but as per my wife. The linea looks like what a car is supposed to look like.
bblost, I liked the way you introduced Linea. Yeah, I would have considered that in such a situation, if I am not that interested in the features the high end trim offers v/s the starting trim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
I totally agree that driving or rather sitting in rear seat of Manza feels really good. Though if like a typical Tata those goodies if they dont go the distance, it wont work out in the long run
I can understand your feeling. I don't have a Swift with me, but in my opinion, if you are OK to live small niggles like the ones mentioned in this thread, it should take you long. I am owning an Indica Xeta as well, which have completed 5 years. Eventhough the mileage clocked is less (just 23K km in 5 + years), it is running really well. I have brushed all the 4 corners as I learned driving in this car (eventhough I learned in a driving school, that was like theory and this was practical), still nothing have fallen off or it is feeling as an old car.

I cannot comment on Ford as I don't have any experience other than the short TDs I have taken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gautam Misra View Post
Ford -ve points
1. TATA has better backseat comfort
2. TATA is cheaper to maintain
3. TATA has a better service network.
4. Ford Classic has been around for a while- slightly dated.
I really liked the way you put it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
I know some people who have spend 2 lacs rupees in 3 yrs on maintenance for a Fiesta.
Oh .. that is a huge amount man. My Hyundai Accent is coming to about 12K per year and I feel this itself is too huge (might be I am carried with the maintenance cost of Indica).

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
Now that Fiesta Classic is coming out in very high numbers in Taxi market, very soon it will attain a Taxi image. Manza is not into Taxi for some reason. Strange!
.

I personally don't give any value to that image, rather I feel that this image shows it is really cheap to maintain. Otherwise only tourist/ luxury taxi operators can maintain that (I have even seen a Rolls Royce parked in a hotel at Bangalore as a taxi !!!).

Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantKarma View Post
Why not look at premium hatches, unless you really need a lot of boot space, especially the New Swift, which now has greatly improved ride quality, or i20, that also offers pliant ride in city conditions? These cars also come with superior reliability and A.S.S. promise.
I don't really feel Hyundai A.S.S is that great or is cheap. It might be my personal experience, but it is better than TATA, but when a person is coming from MUL, it is lot below.
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Old 20th January 2012, 19:23   #32
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Default Re: Tata Manza 1.3 Qjt OR Ford Fiesta Classic 1.4 TDCi

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
Hi All,

I own a Swift Diesel currently and planning to upgrade to a sedan FOR WANT OF COMFORT. Swift rear suspension to me, is horrible. But my budget doesnt allow me to stretch much beyond 8 lacs ONROAD.
Sam,
What you have not mentioned is that are you a bachelor / married / kids / parents / pets - you get the drift.
For a bachelor / DINKS couple the fiesta will be a joy to drive both on highway and city (small size matters a lot in BLR - I drive one to appreciate that)
If you have kids / plan to / ferry your parents around occasionally - then the Manza will be a better bet for its comfort.
I have started using the services of a driver for my fiesta since a couple of months and I prefer sitting in the front as the ride at the back is quite horrible. Now I understand why my daughter keeps telling me "Papa dheere se..." on sundays when she's sitting at the back!
Ingress and egress too is difficult for rear seat passengers in the fiesta if you're big / old!

hope this helps!
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Old 20th January 2012, 20:44   #33
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Default Re: Tata Manza 1.3 Qjt OR Ford Fiesta Classic 1.4 TDCi

The Manza is simply the most comfortable car (rear and front) this side of 9 lakhs period. Also service costs are low (super low). I own a Vista (35000 kms) and I have not paid anything till date to service it (courtesy TMS).
Also I dont have any rattles in the car, nothing fell off. Overall it is built excellently.

I recently had a minor rattle which was traced to coins I had kept in the below passenger seat box!

If you want a drivers car, go for the fiesta. If you want a car which is a bit sedate but offers comfort and is cheap to maintain go for the Manza.
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Old 20th January 2012, 20:59   #34
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Default Re: Tata Manza 1.3 Qjt OR Ford Fiesta Classic 1.4 TDCi

Had the same thoughts while I was out shopping for my car. Had my test drives on Verito, Linea, Fiesta and Dzire. Had to strike out Dzire because of the unbelievable waiting period - I did not find it justifiable. Verito was a big no, the moment I stepped in - I felt it tooo "plasticky".

Linea and Manza were good contenders - but felt Linea to be too big and the GC was definitely an issue. Add to it the first hand experience of being tortured by the FIAT Service (I owned a Palio and have sweet and bitter memories of it). Manza was a big let down - "it looks like a boat" that was the comment I heard from my HM and she felt like sitting inside a hole when taking a TD (I felt the same, though I liked the other aspects, especially the VFM angle). I somehow felt it bloated and lacking a character, Tata either missed something or overdid it.

The Fiesta with the CLASSIC version (read - discounted cost) gave me a different picture altogether. Yes, it was an older model, but a proven one and it had its positives - the way I looked. Above all, the car had all that I was looking for, in a car and nothing extra. Saw the car, took the test drive, fell in love and had it in 2 days time. I loved everything that it gave me - and I did not miss the driving pleasure I had from my Palio and yes, I could take turns faster, without any reverse - the gear was fun and it was Diesel -and above all it gave a great view of the road ahead. Yes, it was little noisy compared to the old Palio but it was burning lesser fuel (a mileage of 17-19 Km/L with 100% AC). It behaved well on highways and was easy in the city. I did feel the seats to be little smaller (compared to the ones I had in the palio), but that was not a deal breaker for me.

I covered around 11k in the last 5 months of owning it and have only good words for the machine. Touch wood, the service guys till date have been keeping me happy as well - there are small complaints, but I don't expect things to be perfect always and I can live with them as long as they don't give me nightmares.

Yes, I would vote for the Fiesta, with full heart..

Regards,
Mano..
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Old 21st January 2012, 12:06   #35
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Default Re: Tata Manza 1.3 Qjt OR Ford Fiesta Classic 1.4 TDCi

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
Hi All,

planning to upgrade to a sedan FOR WANT OF COMFORT. Swift rear suspension to me, is horrible.

APPREHENSIONS:-
1) Rear suspension bouncy/hard. Much similar to Swift! But then I agree it has a good handling. But Iam looking for sheer comfort.
2) Ford Fiesta engine holds good for 70-80k after which what I heard is that it becomes a typical Ford car with high maintenance.
3) Rear space cramped.

Please suggest which car I should go for. I am totally confused on this. This is quite tricky since its a Brand war primarily than a Car war!
Sam_Sant : Seems you're certainly leaning more towards the Manza than the Fiesta for its back-seat space and comfort. Test drive both the Manza and the Fiesta a few times and go with what works best for your criteria.

As someone who faced this dilemma a year back and chose the Fiesta, I have loved my decision everytime I've gotten behind the steering wheel. My criteria were fun-to-drive, high-speed stability, reliability, mileage and easy to drive in the city - and the Fiesta TDCi fitted them to the T. It has been an excellent performer over the 14K kms I've clocked so far, without a single niggle or rattle (Touch wood!) I never saw myself sitting in the rear seat and so, havent been too bothered by the rear space issue. My family have found the rear leg space adequate (not roomy, though).

The Fiesta does have a slightly stiff ride for the rear seat at speeds lower than 30-40 kmph but gets progressively better post that. Have loved its handling and ride quality, overall. In fact, I feel that the Linea and the Fiesta have the best ride quality at high speeds by far amongst <10L sedans.

As for the brand war, with Ford you would greater reliability than with Tata (no offence meant - I love the Tata group, just that the reliability of their cars isnt quite up there yet with the Toyotas and VWs or even the Fords and GMs).

If you want back-seat space and comfort with the risk of a few extra visits to the service station, dont think twice and go for the Manza.
For every other reason, the Fiesta would be a good choice.

All the best !

Last edited by RoadTiger : 21st January 2012 at 12:15.
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Old 21st January 2012, 20:07   #36
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Default Re: Tata Manza 1.3 Qjt OR Ford Fiesta Classic 1.4 TDCi

Thanks all for the feedbacks.

Today I went again I took a TD of the Fiesta Classic with my mom. My mom is surely impressed. What she told me is that spending around 8 lacs, she feels Fiesta is 'classy' and Manza is NOT.

Each time I drive the Fiesta I am getting addicted. This time the TD car was one which had done 65k on the ODO and still, I felt it was quite good. The rear suspension cannot be termed BAD. Comparing to Swift its rear comfort is obviously miles ahead. I drove it some good distance today and as someone said in this thread, Fiesta will make you mad the more you drive it. Manza will be quite the opposite I guess. Any inputs on Manza long drives from anyone ???

About my recent Test Drives :-
1) Fiesta Classic TDCi - 4 times. Incl one today.
2) Manza - 4 times. Felt like a king in the rear seat. One of the test drives was done on a abused Petrol Manza and it send some bad signals.
3) Veritto - once and for all. built to be a taxi.
4) SX4 - once and for all. typical maruti. rattles. lack of build quality.
5) All new Ford Fiesta - once. impressed.
6) Etios D - once and for all. cant beleive toyota did that. Horrible interiors horrible interior quaity. high NVH. body felt worse than my old 10yr old esteem. clutch was way too hard!

I know I missed a Linea TD. But Linea quoted priced for entry diesel is 9.5 lacs.

7) New Swift - Once. Someone said its suspension is far better. I DONT THINK SO. ITS ALL THE SAME. In fact my leg hit awkwardly on the bottom of the dash while pressing clutch so it has a design flaw too. I sit with my seat fully pushed forward and backrest highly inclined (F1 style ) and I am just 5'6".
8) New Vista - Once. Good improvements but suspension though same as in Manza didn't feel too impressive.

PS: One more piece of info about my background to answer one of your queries. My family includes my mom and my wife. My wife is expecting. And since my family is expanding, is the core reason why I am looking to spend 'smartly' on an upgrade. I do know that the 'other' diesel sedans are in the 10 lac range which is quite out of reach for many. So people like me, have to go about 'smartly' Smartly also means selling the Swift at the right time. 5 lacs on offer I am sure wont last for long.

AND for the kind info of all people in this thread this is "namma bengaluru", the place on earth with the highest road tax. So even entry models diesels of Sunny, Linea, Verna, New Fiesta, SX4, Vento are well above 9 and 10 lacs. Even Etios touches 9 lacs on higher trims. Only cars still holding inside 8.5 lacs are the Manza, Dzire and Classic Fiesta, Veritto etc.

Last edited by sam_sant2005 : 21st January 2012 at 20:25.
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Old 21st January 2012, 20:24   #37
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Default Re: Tata Manza 1.3 Qjt OR Ford Fiesta Classic 1.4 TDCi

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
Thanks all for the feedbacks.

Today I went again I took a TD of the Fiesta Classic with my mom. My mom is surely impressed. What she told me is that spending around 8 lacs, she feels Fiesta is 'classy' and Manza is NOT.

Each time I drive the Fiesta I am getting addicted. This time the TD car was one which had done 65k on the ODO and still, I felt it was quite good. The rear suspension cannot be termed BAD. Comparing to Swift its rear comfort is obviously miles ahead. I drove it some good distance today and as someone said in this thread, Fiesta will make you mad the more you drive it. Manza will be quite the opposite I guess. Any inputs on Manza long drives from anyone ???

About my recent Test Drives :-
1) Fiesta Classic TDCi - 4 times. Incl one today.
2) Manza - 4 times. Felt like a king in the rear seat. One of the test drives was done on a abused Petrol Manza and it send some bad signals.
3) Veritto - once and for all. built to be a taxi.
4) SX4 - once and for all. typical maruti. rattles. lack of build quality.
5) All new Ford Fiesta - once. impressed.
6) Etios D - once and for all. cant beleive toyota did that. Horrible interiors horrible interior quaity. high NVH. body felt worse than my old 10yr old esteem. clutch was way too hard!

I know I missed a Linea TD.

7) New Swift - Once. Someone said its suspension is far better. I DONT THINK SO. ITS ALL THE SAME. In fact my leg hit awkwardly on the bottom of the dash while pressing clutch. I sit with my seat fully pushed forward and backrest highly inclined (F1 style ) and I am just 5'6".
8) New Vista - Once. Good improvements but suspension though same as in Manza didn't feel too impressive.

PS: One more piece of info about my background to answer one of your queries. My family includes my mom and my wife. My wife is expecting. And since my family is expanding, is the core reason why I am looking to spend 'smartly' on an upgrade. I do know that the 'other' diesel sedans are in the 10 lac range which is quite out of reach for many. So people like me, have to go about 'smartly' Smartly also means selling the Swift at the right time. 5 lacs on offer I am sure wont last for long.

AND for the kind info of all people in this thread this "namma bengaluru", the place on earth with the highest road tax. So even entry models diesels of Sunny, Linea, Verna, New Fiesta, SX4, Vento are well above 9 and 10 lacs. Even Etios touches 9 lacs on higher trims. Only cars still holding inside 8.5 lacs are the Manza, Dzire and Classic Fiesta, Veritto etc.

Sam, I'd love to say I told you so....
But thats the thing with the fiesta.
but be sure, ok.
if you have say a 90:10 of driven:drive ratio, youll hate being in the backseat of the fiesta.
not because of the comfort, but cos youll be wanting to fire the driver just to get in the driver's seat.

If you were set on the manza, you really shouldnt have TD'd the fiesta agian.
I guess we a convert on board.
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Old 22nd January 2012, 07:42   #38
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Default Have a look at the European twins

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
AND for the kind info of all people in this thread this is "namma bengaluru", the place on earth with the highest road tax. So even entry models diesels of Sunny, Linea, Verna, New Fiesta, SX4, Vento are well above 9 and 10 lacs. Even Etios touches 9 lacs on higher trims. Only cars still holding inside 8.5 lacs are the Manza, Dzire and Classic Fiesta, Veritto etc.
I have all my sympathies for you.

Now that you are more inclined towards the Fiesta Classic as it is a better driver's car, have look at the European twins- The Vento and the Skoda Rapid.

I am sure that they would bowl you over. However, they may not be high on gizmos.

The 1 lakh that you may gain now on a Fiesta Classic now would be adjusted at the time of selling the "slightly dated" car. Here you would have better resale in Maruti (not under consideration), Toyota (Etios) and may be even the Manza may offer better resale value vis-a-vis a Fiesta Classic.

Last edited by Gautam Misra : 22nd January 2012 at 07:43.
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Old 22nd January 2012, 12:07   #39
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Default Re: Tata Manza 1.3 Qjt OR Ford Fiesta Classic 1.4 TDCi

I really am unable to see the basis of your selection since the variants you have shortlisted are nowhere close to each other in terms of kit on offer.

What carwale tells me is, Top End Fiesta Classic (the only trim with ABS/ Airbags) is >41k more expensive than the Sunny Diesel XL (which has ABS + Airbags).

But here we are talking about cars with ABS + Airbags. I assume that was a requirement since you opted for the Aura ABS on the Manza.

Also, if the ABS Manza fits your budget but the ABS Fiesta does not (in which case Sunny also doesn't fit your budget), I would suggest you to go for the Manza for that reason alone. This reason is apart from the fact that the Manza would be cheaper to own and run in the long run AND it fits your requirement of COMFORT better than the Fiesta.

Clearly I have nothing against the Fiesta apart from the fact that the only variant with Safety kit is extremely overpriced against the competition. Since you did 27k in 1.5 years AND your family is growing and you are so concerned about their comfort that you are changing your car within 2 years, it seems like a good idea to invest in their safety too.

Last edited by antz.bin : 22nd January 2012 at 12:09.
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Old 22nd January 2012, 12:15   #40
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Default Re: Tata Manza 1.3 Qjt OR Ford Fiesta Classic 1.4 TDCi

Quote:
Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post
I really am unable to see the basis of your selection since the variants you have shortlisted are nowhere close to each other in terms of kit on offer.

What carwale tells me is, Top End Fiesta Classic (the only trim with ABS/ Airbags) is >41k more expensive than the Sunny Diesel XL (which has ABS + Airbags).

But here we are talking about cars with ABS + Airbags. I assume that was a requirement since you opted for the Aura ABS on the Manza.

Also, if the ABS Manza fits your budget but the ABS Fiesta does not (in which case Sunny also doesn't fit your budget), I would suggest you to go for the Manza for that reason alone. This reason is apart from the fact that the Manza would be cheaper to own and run in the long run AND it fits your requirement of COMFORT better than the Fiesta.

Clearly I have nothing against the Fiesta apart from the fact that the only variant with Safety kit is extremely overpriced against the competition. Since you did 27k in 1.5 years AND your family is growing and you are so concerned about their comfort that you are changing your car within 2 years, it seems like a good idea to invest in their safety too.
Good point. But i pitted Manza ABS against a non-ABS Fiesta because I feel, with Tata, ABS might be required and not that I really want it. Or in other words, a Ford car without ABS is good enough in the braking department and handling when compared to a Tata car. So to take Tata somewhere near, I need an ABS. Just my take on this.

I too understand the importance of safety. But as I already mentioned most of the diesel sedans are highly priced in Blr. ABS is untouchable except for Manza/Dzire. My 27000kms was done in 13 months to be precise since the remaining almost 5 months I hadn't used my car due an onsite and a hand fracture

Last edited by sam_sant2005 : 22nd January 2012 at 12:22.
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Old 22nd January 2012, 14:36   #41
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Default Re: Tata Manza 1.3 Qjt OR Ford Fiesta Classic 1.4 TDCi

If you would be driving the car on a regular basis, I see no point in going with the Manza. The Fiesta may be a older car but is miles ahead in terms of driveability. The almost zero turbo lag from the TDCI and the superbly weighted steering make it a pleasure to drive. The Mana on the other hand has evident turbo lag and poor steering feel. The cost of maintenence of the classic also would not be as high as it used to be since it shares many parts with the Figo. Our family has owned a Ford for almost 10 years now and they sure make quality cars compared to Tata.
The Fiesta Classic wins hands down in all departments except cabin space .
However, if space is your top most priority, the Manza is the one to go for
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Old 22nd January 2012, 14:58   #42
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Default Re: Tata Manza 1.3 Qjt OR Ford Fiesta Classic 1.4 TDCi

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
Good point. But i pitted Manza ABS against a non-ABS Fiesta because I feel, with Tata, ABS might be required and not that I really want it. Or in other words, a Ford car without ABS is good enough in the braking department and handling when compared to a Tata car. So to take Tata somewhere near, I need an ABS. Just my take on this.

I too understand the importance of safety. But as I already mentioned most of the diesel sedans are highly priced in Blr. ABS is untouchable except for Manza/Dzire. My 27000kms was done in 13 months to be precise since the remaining almost 5 months I hadn't used my car due an onsite and a hand fracture
Please don't think the Ford will not need ABS.
As an owner of the Fiesta TDCi, I sorely missed ABS. Even though the brakes were decent, the car would still skid under hard braking. If you can spend the little extra for an ABS variant, I would highly advice you to do so.
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Old 22nd January 2012, 22:26   #43
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Default Re: Tata Manza 1.3 Qjt OR Ford Fiesta Classic 1.4 TDCi

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Originally Posted by lamborghini View Post
Please don't think the Ford will not need ABS.
As an owner of the Fiesta TDCi, I sorely missed ABS. Even though the brakes were decent, the car would still skid under hard braking. If you can spend the little extra for an ABS variant, I would highly advice you to do so.
I would have loved to. But it is not a 'little' extra unfortunately :( Fiesta SXi ABS costs 10.3 lacs in Blore. LXi costs 8.2 and CLXi costs 8.7.

And only because of ABS is Manza the one to go for in the given price range?
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Old 23rd January 2012, 00:00   #44
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Default Re: Tata Manza 1.3 Qjt OR Ford Fiesta Classic 1.4 TDCi

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Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
And only because of ABS is Manza the one to go for in the given price range?
The Fiesta braking has improved significantly from the earlier models (esp. when it was launched).

ABS is certainly a desirable feature - if you can afford it.
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Old 23rd January 2012, 00:06   #45
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Default Re: Tata Manza 1.3 Qjt OR Ford Fiesta Classic 1.4 TDCi

@Sam, as a lot of people said,

For sheer space, Manza!
For drive pleasure, Fiesta!

Otherwise, there is NOT much similarity in both.

I am not sure whether the Fiesta is expensive to maintain. I believe the biggest reasons for Fiesta to be successful was low cost of maintenance. Now to be doubly sure,

1. Call up some Ford owners and check their service costs
2. Enquire about the extended warranty schemes & what all does it cover
3. Check with your friend who spent 3L on services, what exactly has he repaired / replaced and what all were covered in warranty.

******************************************
Some varied thoughts:

From your thread, can I assume you are more inclined to comfort than a sedan?

1. If so, why don't you try i20 ? It's BIG, should be comfy owing to soft suspensions, but may NOT be great in driving.

2. Try pre-owned Fiat Linea/Punto. These cars will come cheap, a proper ride-handling compromise and will be cheap to own as well. Downside, your resale is also gonna be pathetic.

3. Try a Vista [hatch], will be spacious & comfy - you might find it VFM. Low cost of ownership, not so great re-sale.

4. Check Optra Magnum prices, with the discounts around, what if it fits the 8.5L budget? Heard it's again got a good compromise between ride & handling. Or you could even check for a pre-owned one, if interested.

5. Wait for the Dzire CS - reports suggest the back seat is tuned for comfort, also that the car is DIFFERENT [from Swift] from the A pillar.

6. Request you to check the Etios / Liva 2012 again. Heard there are substantial improvements.

PS:: Since you said your wife is carrying, suggest she be seated in the front seat of any car for added comfort.

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 23rd January 2012 at 00:08.
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