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Old 20th September 2012, 14:26   #181
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On the Verna thread there are some posts about Hyundai having done some changes to its suspension that has improved its handling. It might be a good idea to check it out at the nearest dealer.
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Old 20th September 2012, 14:48   #182
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodigyy View Post
Exactly my thoughts too. I prefer my car to be good with a good after sale service to ensure a hassle free ownership experience. Goodies, gizmos and frills come second for me.

For the usage quoted by the Original poster, i doubt if Verna would be able to maintain its composure on bad roads, i believe the right choice for such roads would be one of either Sx4 or Linea
Prodiggy: How often you would be driving on bad roads ? Is it like majority of the time and how much time you would be driving on proper good roads.

If my driving is in good roads and only occasionally on bad roads then I will not emphasize on this point and reject few competent cars. Coming to Verna, I would not suggest it even on good roads .
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Old 20th September 2012, 15:10   #183
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

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Originally Posted by sam_boy View Post
Prodiggy: How often you would be driving on bad roads ? Is it like majority of the time and how much time you would be driving on proper good roads.

If my driving is in good roads and only occasionally on bad roads then I will not emphasize on this point and reject few competent cars. Coming to Verna, I would not suggest it even on good roads .
I already booked an Sx4 just last weekend, getting my new love this weekend, i'll mostly be driving on very good roads.

I was actually referring to the original poster of the query as below

Quote:
Originally Posted by gauravkcec View Post
Query for a friend.

Budget: 10 lakhs on road.

Short List: After short test drives of a few cars Nissan Sunny XL diesel and Hyundai Verna 1.6 CRDi ex variant.

Please differentiate the two on the basis:
a:Opinions on ride and handling specifically highway dynamics between the two. Test drove both and he felt no clear difference within city limits. Will try for a highway test drive. The car will occasionally go on highway trips but speeds will be limited to 120.
b: He has driven the ritz vdi for around one lakh km and has had no issues whatsoever. So how do both the cars compare in terms of the reliability of suspension, clutch,electricals,electronics and the engine. The car is expected to be driven on some rough roads although at sane speeds.
c: Resale value: Car would be driven for a maximum of 100K kms (2-3 years) and then replaced so which of these will fetch a better resale.

At present his heart is set on verna but wanted a second opinion as he has never owned a car which was not a maruti, so in reliability terms which will be better. Skoda rapid,Tata manza and VW vento were left out due to horrible after sales stories from skoda and tata and VW not being to his taste.
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Old 21st September 2012, 22:24   #184
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

Hello Friends,

From last one month, have been doing TD's of all cars within 8-11 Lakhs range. Primary requirements are
  • ABS & Dual Airbags
  • Alloy wheels
  • Good Ride and Handling
  • Decent pickup
  • High speed stability, will be out on frequent highway drives :-)
  • Good rear seat comfort (mostly wife and 1.5 year old kid will occupy)
  • Cheap to maintain and long term reliability
Finally shortlisted,
  • Vento
  • Rapid
  • Linea
  • New Ford Fiesta
  • Fiesta Classic
Following is(are) my opinion(s) with respect to TD of above, next to the point a '+' will indicate a like and '-' will indicate a dislike from my perspective.



Vento:
  • Driving position is very comfortable. (+)
  • Interior quality is very good, gives a luxury feel. (+)
  • Legroom and seat inclination is good and very useful for long drives (+)
  • Only high line variant offers ABS & Airbags, which is around 11.8 L, exceeding my budget by nearly 1 Lakh + ( - )
  • For Bluetooth, GPS , reverse parking sensors, need to spend around 40K taking the total to 12.2 L (-)
  • Exterior looks just okay (wifey didnt like at all, she says its just plan) (-)
  • Steering feedback at high speeds is just okay, not very confident (-)
  • Not confident on VW servicing (-)
Rapid:
  • Driving position is very comfortable. (+)
  • Interior quality is very good, gives a luxury feel. (+)
  • Exterior much better compared to plain looking Vento (+)
  • Liked the green illumination on console compared to the orange color illumination on Vento. (+)
  • Legroom and seat inclination is good and very useful for long drives (+)
  • Torque feel is much better than in Vento (+)
  • Ambition variant is value for money, ABS and driver side airbag, comes to around 10.26 L after discounts (+)
  • Need to spend another 30K on fitting the 1-DIN music system and leather seats , etc..taking the cost to 10.56 (+)
  • Alloy wheels would cost another 40K (-)
  • Passenger airbag missing in Ambition variant (-)
  • Elegance is out of my budget at 11.4 L (-)
  • Similar to VW, not sure of Skoda A.S.S & maintenance costs (-)
  • Steering feedback is just okay, similar to Vento (-)
Linea:
  • Driving position not as comfortable as Vento or Rapid, but I think can be adjusted (+)
  • Took several long TD's both in bumper to bumper traffic and on empty stretches, felt comfortable on both occasions. (+)
  • Did high speed cornering and the car handled very well (+)
  • Steering feedback is excellent (+)
  • Build quality is superb, loved the solid sound on closing the boot lid :-) (+)
  • Back seat is comfortable but not as good as Vento or Rapid (+)
  • Had all the features , blue and me, ACC, steering mounted controls at OTR of 10.25 L for Dynamic and 10.65 L for Emotion variants (including all discounts) (+)
  • Lag is too much in 2nd gear (the car just doesn't respond to accelerator input some times) , 1st gear is nice and suited my driving style. 3rd, 4th and 5th gears are good. (+)
  • A.S.S is still doubtful, but I feel FIAT will be cheaper to maintain compared to Vento or Rapid (+)
  • Acceleration is not good compard as Vento, Rapid, New Fiesta (-)
New Ford Fiesta:
  • Handling is superb, felt much stable than linea on hard cornering (+)
  • Front seats offer very good support and the stylish dash board and center console give better feel (+)
  • Finding a good driving position is very easy (+)
  • The car accelerates well and the ESP steering gives very nice feedback. Its very light at slow speeds and becomes heavier as speeds increase. Steering feedback shall rate at second place, 1st being of Linea (+)
  • Step into back seat and as given in Team BHP official review, it feels like one or two segments below. Not very comfortable (-)
  • Price at around 10.7 L for style variant and 12 L for Titanium variant (-)
  • Style variant doesn't come with USB support and alloy wheels (-)
Fiesta Classic:
  • Though classic doesn't belong to C2 class of sedans, Test Drove it to just compare with the new Fiesta and felt very comfortable.
  • Acceleration/Steering feed back is as good as the new fiesta, but felt this to be much better (+)
  • Somehow felt the back seat to be comfortable than the new fiesta (+)
  • The sales exec says Ford has no plans to discontinue this, I doubt this claim and I think Ford may phase out this soon, hence resale may be lesser (-)
  • The new Titanium variant comes with USB, Bluetooth, (+)
  • Overall interior quality is good (+)
  • Pricing seems to be okay given the Fun to drive nature of the car, 9.2 L for Titanium variant (+)
  • Handling is as good as the new Fiesta (+)

Got a quote of 8.6 ( including exchange bonus + other discount) on Linea T-Jet +, but I am worried about the fuel bills :-), also drove the Classic 1.6 petrol just to check the acceleration and drive comfort. Not really felt any difference compared to Classic 1.4 TDCI.


I will be exchanging my 4 year old Indica DLS, which served me well, all dealers are quoting more or less same value (2.25 to 2.3 L), ford dealer offered 2.5 L. All prices including exchange bonus.



Need to finalize the booking over the weekend, as of now most probably will be going for Linea Emotion (16" alloys with 205/55) or Fiesta Classic (good VFM sedan at given price point and very much fun to drive). Wife is more tilted towards Linea or Rapid.



Which one will be better on A.S.S and long term reliability ? What is your opinion on Classic 1.4 TDCI, will Ford be phasing this out soon ?



Thanks,
Srinivas.R
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Old 21st September 2012, 22:51   #185
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

Quote:
Originally Posted by sriswe View Post
Hello Friends,

From last one month, have been doing TD's of all cars within 8-11 Lakhs range. Primary requirements are
  • ABS & Dual Airbags
  • Alloy wheels
  • Good Ride and Handling
  • Decent pickup
  • High speed stability, will be out on frequent highway drives :-)
  • Good rear seat comfort (mostly wife and 1.5 year old kid will occupy)
  • Cheap to maintain and long term reliability
Finally shortlisted,[list]
Hi Srinivas,

For all your requirements, i strongly feel you should check out the ERTIGA Zdi as well.
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Old 21st September 2012, 23:35   #186
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

Srinivas,

I would suggest you to go with Linea T-Jet, you are getting an excellent deal and brother its a 1.4l petrol engine so don't worry about mileage and as your running is on highway expect high fuel efficiency. My friend's T-Jet is giving 14-15.5kmpl which is quite good!
If you want to stick with diesel only then I will suggest you to go ahead with Rapid, its overall a better deal just the design is a bit plain but well its worth it!
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Old 22nd September 2012, 07:37   #187
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpzen View Post
Hi Srinivas,

For all your requirements, i strongly feel you should check out the ERTIGA Zdi as well.
Hi kpzen,

Didn't consider Ertiga because of the external looks, wife doesn't like it at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YashD View Post
Srinivas,

I would suggest you to go with Linea T-Jet, you are getting an excellent deal and brother its a 1.4l petrol engine so don't worry about mileage and as your running is on highway expect high fuel efficiency. My friend's T-Jet is giving 14-15.5kmpl which is quite good!
If you want to stick with diesel only then I will suggest you to go ahead with Rapid, its overall a better deal just the design is a bit plain but well its worth it!
Hi YashD,
Going by the current usage it will be around 1200 KM's per month including city + highway driving. It may increase to 1500+. Hence considering diesel to be appropriate.

Thanks,
Srinivas.R
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Old 22nd September 2012, 10:05   #188
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

Quote:
Originally Posted by sriswe View Post
Hello Friends,

From last one month, have been doing TD's of all cars within 8-11 Lakhs range. Primary requirements are
  • ABS & Dual Airbags
  • Alloy wheels
  • Good Ride and Handling
  • Decent pickup
  • High speed stability, will be out on frequent highway drives :-)
  • Good rear seat comfort (mostly wife and 1.5 year old kid will occupy)
  • Cheap to maintain and long term reliability
Finally shortlisted,
  • Vento
  • Rapid
  • Linea
  • New Ford Fiesta
  • Fiesta Classic
Pretty well summarized TD report. From your requirements, I feel the top variant of the first 4 cars above will suffice (though it may slightly exceed your said budget). Fiesta classic, though a good car is really from the old block. The Linea and the Fiesta are quite feature packed in the stock form (leather seats, Bluetooth etc.). And the Linea now has the added advantage of better GC.
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Old 22nd September 2012, 10:13   #189
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

Quote:
Originally Posted by sriswe View Post
Hello Friends,

From last one month, have been doing TD's of all cars within 8-11 Lakhs range. Primary requirements are
  • ABS & Dual Airbags
  • Alloy wheels
  • Good Ride and Handling
  • Decent pickup
  • High speed stability, will be out on frequent highway drives :-)
  • Good rear seat comfort (mostly wife and 1.5 year old kid will occupy)
  • Cheap to maintain and long term reliability
Finally shortlisted,
  • Vento
  • Rapid
  • Linea
  • New Ford Fiesta
  • Fiesta Classic
Considering your requirements as well as budget, a glaring omission is the Sx4 ZDi, some good offers on the Sx4 Celebration Edition Diesel as of now, but i guess you'll have to make a fast move on that one since the inventory levels are going down as far as the Sx4 Celebration Edition is concerned.

If the list is restricted to only Classic & Linea, then even though there isn't much to chose between the Fiesta Classic and the Linea, on various parameters, but since Fiesta Classic is an ageing model i'd suggest you to go for a Linea for sheer looks & a marginally better re-sale value.
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Old 22nd September 2012, 10:23   #190
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

Quote:
Originally Posted by sriswe View Post
  • ABS & Dual Airbags
  • Alloy wheels
  • Good Ride and Handling
  • Decent pickup
  • High speed stability, will be out on frequent highway drives :-)
  • Good rear seat comfort (mostly wife and 1.5 year old kid will occupy)
  • Cheap to maintain and long term reliability
Finally shortlisted,
  • Vento
  • Rapid
  • Linea
  • New Ford Fiesta
  • Fiesta Classic
Which one will be better on A.S.S and long term reliability ? What is your opinion on Classic 1.4 TDCI, will Ford be phasing this out soon ?
Thanks,
Srinivas.R
Of the cars you have short listed, the Fiesta Classic and Linea stand out as the two VFM cars. The biggest hassle with the Linea is their A.S.S. Tata made a mess of that and Fiat are still struggling to do it properly on their own. Have a look at A.S.S in your town and then decide between the two cars.

The Classic will be phased out at some point, no doubt, but I don't think it will be in the very near future. Of course if you intend to keep the car for 5 to 10 years, it will almost certainly be phased out or on the verge of getting phased out at that point.
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Old 22nd September 2012, 12:25   #191
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

If budget is a constraint, then go for the Classic tdci. The Ikon has been around for a decade, and the Classic is less than 7 years old from the intro time.

So in all likelihood, it might not get phased out so soon. It has proven to be a trusted workhorse, and is not riddled with niggles like the Linea. Ford A.S.S. in Hyd is decent.

BTW, your initial impressions are very well-summarised. But if you'd driven the 1.6 Fiesta at speeds over 80, you'd have realised the difference from the tdci.
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Old 22nd September 2012, 19:39   #192
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

Thank you vb-san, prodigyy, pganapathy, vnabhi, my responses in-line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
The Linea and the Fiesta are quite feature packed in the stock form (leather seats, Bluetooth etc.). And the Linea now has the added advantage of better GC.
Yes, both Linea and new Fiesta are feature packed, Linea just offers more features at lesser price point. Increased GC is one of the reason for shortlisting Linea apart from Ride, Handling and Steering feedback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodigyy View Post
Considering your requirements as well as budget, a glaring omission is the Sx4 ZDi, some good offers on the Sx4 Celebration Edition Diesel as of now, ....... between the Fiesta Classic and the Linea, on various parameters, but since Fiesta Classic is an ageing model i'd suggest you to go for a Linea for sheer looks & a marginally better re-sale value.
I did consider SX4 Celebration edition, I test drove it and find it very comfortable with decent ride and handling, I was getting at around 10.5 L. But the vehicle is Mar, 2012 manufactured and only one color (white with some blue stickering) is available and also features are less compared to competition. Hence rejected it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pganapathy View Post
The biggest hassle with the Linea is their A.S.S. Tata made a mess of that and Fiat are still struggling to do it properly on their own. Have a look at A.S.S in your town and then decide between the two cars.

The Classic will be phased out at some point, no doubt, but I don't think it will be in the very near future. Of course if you intend to keep the car for 5 to 10 years, it will almost certainly be phased out or on the verge of getting phased out at that point.
Since I own a Indica, had a good rappot with service guys at one of TATA workshop. And luckily one of the service advisor has now moved to Punto/Linea service. He is a good guy and used to service my Indica very well. In one of the conversation he said FIAT service and spare part availability is much better now and FIAT is taking the Indian operations quite seriously.

Yes, classic is more fun to drive and for me the driving position is very comfortable. But features wise Linea offers more at just 1 L difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vnabhi View Post
If budget is a constraint, then go for the Classic tdci. The Ikon has been around for a decade, and the Classic is less than 7 years old from the intro time.

So in all likelihood, it might not get phased out so soon. It has proven to be a trusted workhorse, and is not riddled with niggles like the Linea. Ford A.S.S. in Hyd is decent.

BTW, your initial impressions are very well-summarised. But if you'd driven the 1.6 Fiesta at speeds over 80, you'd have realised the difference from the tdci.
Kept a budget of max 11 Lakhs, and was looking for fun to drive vehicle with good ride and handling. Classic was as good as Linea, may be much better regarding fun to drive nature. Yes, you are correct, the 1.6 is like a rocket after crossing speeds of 80 kmph. I test drove it to just find the difference between TDCI and 1.6 :-)

Today after a long discussion, finally decided on Linea and the color Sun Beam Beige. Spoke to several Tata-FIAT dealers and almost all of them said SBB color is stopped from FIAT, but some old stock may be available (may be from Mar/Apr 2012). Wife has given approval only for SBB color, dealership guys say only if we book the car VIN could be given and manufacturing month could be known. Also I could not cancel the booking in case I get to know that the mfg month is old

Looks like all my one month research is going to get wasted. Keeping my fingers crossed till Monday.

Srinivas.R
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Old 22nd September 2012, 19:45   #193
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So buddy, you buying the T-Jet or diesel Linea? What's the on-road cost of it in your city?
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Old 22nd September 2012, 20:48   #194
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

Quote:
Originally Posted by sriswe View Post
Thank you vb-san, prodigyy, pganapathy, vnabhi, my responses in-line.

Since I own a Indica, had a good rappot with service guys at one of TATA workshop. And luckily one of the service advisor has now moved to Punto/Linea service. He is a good guy and used to service my Indica very well. In one of the conversation he said FIAT service and spare part availability is much better now and FIAT is taking the Indian operations quite seriously.

Today after a long discussion, finally decided on Linea and the color Sun Beam Beige. Spoke to several Tata-FIAT dealers and almost all of them said SBB color is stopped from FIAT, but some old stock may be available (may be from Mar/Apr 2012). Wife has given approval only for SBB color, dealership guys say only if we book the car VIN could be given and manufacturing month could be known. Also I could not cancel the booking in case I get to know that the mfg month is old

Looks like all my one month research is going to get wasted. Keeping my fingers crossed till Monday.

Srinivas.R
Assuming the A.S.S is good and you know the person/people there, go ahead with the Linea. However, if you only want SBB colour and that has been stopped a while back, things could get complicated. I suggest you book on the understanding that if the colour is not available, you be allowed to cancel your booking with no cost to you.

Talk to the dealers and see if they would be willing to sell you the SBB coloured car at a discount as the car will be six months old at the least.

Given that you may now be waiting for a while, consider a car that is rumoured to be coming out around Diwali. The diesel Honda Jazz. It ticks all the boxes though its goodie list is not as impressive as the Fiat. However, it may well be the cheapest option
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Old 23rd September 2012, 13:07   #195
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

Quote:
Originally Posted by YashD View Post
So buddy, you buying the T-Jet or diesel Linea? What's the on-road cost of it in your city?
YashD, going for diesel Linea Emotion, after all discounts OTR is 10.65 L. Dealer offered 8.6 L for Linea T-Jet +, asked for 8L , but he didn't accept. Hence going to Linea-D.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pganapathy View Post
Talk to the dealers and see if they would be willing to sell you the SBB coloured car at a discount as the car will be six months old at the least.

Given that you may now be waiting for a while, consider a car that is rumoured to be coming out around Diwali. The diesel Honda Jazz. It ticks all the boxes though its goodie list is not as impressive as the Fiat. However, it may well be the cheapest option
I already spoke to dealer on the discount part to reduce at least another 20-30K if the mfg date is more than 3 months old, but none of them agreeing. Will it be ok if I go for 6 months old car, of course car will be coming from factory itself. If nothing goes well, will wait till next year or year-end to check other new launches :-)

Thanks,
Srinivas.R
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