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Old 19th November 2012, 01:11   #301
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

@KINI:
Many congratulations on your choice and the why's of it. It is not just the electrical faults however, which has led not me to post the pic. I agree with you as there are various views and ways to look at any product and though i personally would not buy a product which is not known to be reliable (in my almost decade long experience of living and driving in Europe). However, hope this new polo platform on which vento is based will turn the tide. I do wish so sincerely. I do agree and have experienced their build quality, which is something to be appreciated and replicated across the industry.

@VB-SAN:
Firstly, i like your handle...san in Japanese is an honorific suffix for addressing or referring to people. Is it by any figment of my imagination related to that? This pic was attached to address KINI and hence i did not take into account other brands, as KINI was interested in the VW Vento and the Fiat Linea. The rest of the pic was giving more details than i could possibly post!

@hrman:
There is no duster specific campaign here. I still make my choices on how reliable a car is. I would not like my beloved family and friends to be stranded or worse have an issue with it, if I can help it. When Carlos Ghosn, the CEO of Nissan and Renault purchased DACIA a Romanian auto maker, it was with the intention of building robust, problem free cars. He had predicted that the markets will falter in Europe and the west and its people will start look to have no nonsense car as they will not be in a position to indulge in their automotive fantasies or at least some realistic dreams as there will be a shortage of resources for such activities. By God, how right was he? Europe and most western automotive markets have not yet recovered from the 2008/7 collapse, in spite of government initiatives to offer rebate for older cars in an exchange for new cars.

The instructions for DACIA managers was to find parts from the Renault-Nissan parts bin, of older models which have withstood the most abuse and yet had not failed functionally, structurally or aesthetically. The words used were something, which meant, “zero failure” (I was privy to some info). Thus, the new DACIA was born, with a premise of a new automotive era of problem free motoring and from all the parts, technologies, and applications, which had never failed in other older models in the alliance.

You can see the logans and the veritos running as taxi’s in India, taking all the abuse and yet giving fantastic mileage and no problems even after 400,000 kilometres (a little search on the web will give you all the information I have written), is old news anyway.

This Renault duster is in reality DACIA Duster and hence the recommendation. By the way the Logan and the soon to be launched Lodgy were run away hits in France, Germany, Italy and Spain, major automotive markets in Europe. What is interesting to note is that people in these countries generally purchased vehicles made by manufacturers in their country. French – Citroen, Peugeot, Renault; Germans – VW, Audi, MB, BMW, Opel; Italians – Fiat; Spanish – Seat, etc. You get what I wanted to convey. These markets are very tough to break for any new product, yet DACIA quickly became the top seller by volume in all these countries (all info available on the wonderful web).

In addition, Duster has a great GC, good mileage, more importantly I feel it is the best car to take on our so-called roads, which are by the way shaming moon and other planets for their crater size, design, appearance, and sheer number. The comfort of car from a couple of segments above, with the high seating posture, giving you a commanding view of the road are the hallmarks of Duster. Please do check out fifth gear’s video review of Duster. It is not easy for a budget brand DACIA and a budget car Duster to win their appreciation. (They are not as bad as Clarkson. However, we watch Clarkson for the entertainment and not base our automotive purchasing decisions on Top Gear!)

@ Sam Boy:
Dear Sam, each is entitled to their opinion.

It is wonderful to know that some people need not worry about 10 – 12 lakh rupees of investment, the time and energy to get that and the continued good, honest, hard work, required to keep up.

Moreover, it is not the money that is the sole criteria. Imagine, just imagine that someone’s daughter or wife or sister is making a long journey, and had to travel though some part of the night. This wonderful lovely car on which not much paralysis had been done, gives way. She is not in position to reach anyone and then what? I am just explaining a hypothetical scenario. This might occur even at better times, but many might not know the turmoil that goes with problems. And we need to remember “Peter Principle” problems come in huge numbers not in single digits. If one belong’s to that group, good for them and I do pray that, it remains the same for them and for all if possible. But such people should also know that knowledge comes from all directions and it is free (monetarily only, as I have my deepest regards for all the people in this forum who devote their time, effort and wisdom not just knowledge to better the lives of people they might never meet or get to see) especially on T-BHP!

Moreover, it is also heartening to know that some people need not think, plan, and care for others. Nevertheless, being human is not difficult. In addition, being with a G and living with a wife is different (especially if you respect, adore, and cherish her). If one plans to changes wheels as they change their tissues then this piece of conversation is not for them.

The saddest part of my country is that people do not like be informed or educated, they prefer to be entertained.

From where I come from, we are taught to respect and treat others wealth and materials as we would treat ours, treat their problems as ours and work towards solving it. There is also one other saying where I come from, that even man’s best friend/pet can bark for itself, it takes only a human to stand for another and be counted to give him/her/them his best and all. In addition, we were asked and taught - For what did God give our faculties? - To do some good, which really benefits the other soul, while one still can. By the way, there is a jokes section in the forum!

I get it. It takes a lot to make any mental effort and it is not always possible by all, at most of the times. It takes a lot to comment and have your opinions scrutinized by many.

Good luck to all who are paralysed by analysis, as they need it.

You rightly used the word native and village together!
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Old 19th November 2012, 14:50   #302
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

Quote:
Originally Posted by pganapathy View Post
If the mileage per month is below about 1,000 km then petrol makes sense. Especially as you are considering used which has decimated resale values.

As a rule petrol engines are cheaper to maintain than diesel engines in a similar price range.

Most modern engines have similar servicing distances, whether petrol or diesel so there is little to choose from there.

Good power is a very relative term. It seems that the petrol engines are better in this regard when taking the same sized diesel engine where both are NA. It is very difficult to compare different engine size and forced induction vs NA engines. The accord 3.5 V6 is very powerful for example but most diesel engines rarely exceed 2.0 litres at best in the budget you are looking at.

Honda are not great for GCsuggestionsuggestion is drive the car you are considering on roads you would normally use it on and see the result. Pure GC numbers do not tell the whole tale.

Honda as a rule are brilliant tuner cars which means after market accessories are available for just about anything.

I have to take those failure rate numbers with a pinch of salt. Renault and Nissan are twins under the skin. Yet Nissan is looking at 25 % and Renault 52 %. It does not make sense.

Thanks @pganapathy.

I am planning to do comparison study between petrol and diesel cars, which includes the higher premium paid for diesel and the break even period and the higher amounts on services. i will plan to get my Punto's entire Service history and see teh expense incured and talk to some petrol car users.

I did some ground works during past 2 to 3 days and i am not there yet, but i will

Here are some of my cars in my wish list within my 10 lacs budget to replace my Punto. please give me all your comments so that i can work on my priorities before finalising

1) Used Civic (6 to 8 lacs range)
2) Used Cruze (7 to 9 lacs range) - Can i get for this price range and how is used cruze? or this price?
3) Wait for new lancer - Worth the wait?
4) Fluidic verna (new or used within 10 lacs)
5) New City


Thanks
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Old 19th November 2012, 16:09   #303
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~~VinZ~~ View Post
Thanks @pganapathy.
1) Used Civic (6 to 8 lacs range)
2) Used Cruze (7 to 9 lacs range) - Can i get for this price range and how is used cruze? or this price?
3) Wait for new lancer - Worth the wait?
4) Fluidic verna (new or used within 10 lacs)
5) New City

Thanks
Used civic as a rule should be fine. Very long lasting and reliable cars. If space and fuel permits, you can put CNG or LPG on the vehicle. Just have the vehicle checked out carefully before buying.

Used cruze is diesel so more expensive than petrol used cars. Prett decent though definitely not as reliable as the Toyota / Honda cars. Not too bad overall. In that price you would get the first cruze's sold.

The lancer itself may be worth the wait, but the A$$ does it no favours. I would recommend staying away from it for that reason only. A used Toyota/Honda offer more peace of mind. Amazing but true.

The fluidic verna is essentially what the Japanese cars were in between. They have improved quality standards but are not as impressive as the japs. They offer more mod cons than anybody else in their price range. However, the one thing with all hyundai's is that they are designed to be comfortable and hence have soft spring settings. That makes them comfy but handling at speed becomes like a boat. If you rarely cross about 100 on the highway, then everything is fine. Over that it would be a concern.

The new city is a good car. Question is do you want to spend so much. A used civic or even accord is available at that price. Your choice.
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Old 19th November 2012, 16:13   #304
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~~VinZ~~ View Post
Thanks @pganapathy.

I am planning to do
5) New City


Thanks
You can go through my following post to do the financial calculations. Also attached there is an excel sheet to simplify the calculation work.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/hatchb...ml#post1146536 (Help Required Indica Vista Safire or Indica Vista TDI)
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Old 19th November 2012, 19:42   #305
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

Quote:
Originally Posted by KINI View Post
Looks like VW service charges have gone up.The SE quoted 11k for annual service whereas it has cost only 7k for BHPian Mikon.
My family is facing a problem of deciding between a Cruze and cars like the Vento and Fiesta. Being a Cruze owner, can you please mention the annual service cost of the Cruze? I saw on one post that it is around Rs. 7.5k per service.

Last edited by Vivek Jayan : 19th November 2012 at 19:46.
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Old 20th November 2012, 10:06   #306
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivek Jayan View Post
My family is facing a problem of deciding between a Cruze and cars like the Vento and Fiesta. Being a Cruze owner, can you please mention the annual service cost of the Cruze? I saw on one post that it is around Rs. 7.5k per service.
My 22.5k service costed me 3.6k.This is including a few issues that needed to be replaced/sorted out.Now I don't remember how much my 15k service costed.Should be somewhere around 5k to 6k.I'm not sure,I could be very wrong here.Please note I haven't availed of the Chevy promise scheme.


Can anybody confirm if the Vento has an aux port??

EDIT:Any clue how long this free insurance offer is on??We are planning to book the car only in December.

Last edited by KINI : 20th November 2012 at 10:26.
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Old 20th November 2012, 10:24   #307
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

Quote:
Originally Posted by KINI View Post

Can anybody confirm if the Vento has an aux port??
It doesn't. The Rapid has one if I remember correctly.
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Old 21st November 2012, 22:35   #308
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

Gentlemen,

Need some advice to help me choose!

My requirements
1. Budget: ~8 OTR
2. Body Type: Sedan Only, preferably diesel
3. Needs: Ladies car for the Dr Mrs, Image, Lightness in the city, High FE, Low Maintenance, Good Resale, Good A.S.S.
4. What we have evaluated and Rejected Already: Linea, Manza, Etios, Dzire, SX4, New Fiesta, Quanto
5. Out of bounds: Vento/Rapid (as we already own a vento)
6. Running Needs: About 600-750 Kms a month

Contenders
1. Honda City Corporate
Positives: It is my prime choice. Honda is Honda. Jewel of an engine, gem of a car. Its light, has image, good FE, Maintenance Free, great resale.
Negatives: The future of petrol prices is playing on our mind
2. Hyundai Verna CRDI 1.4
Positives: Its a diesel, fluidic looks
Negatives: Low on equipment, No sample cars around, Dealers discourage buying this version, would not choose the petrol version over the Honda city ever.
3. Nissan Sunny / Renault Scala
Positives: Size
Negatives: Looks are about average, dull interiors, diesel moves out of budget
4. Ford Classic Diesel
Positives: Its a diesel sedan and in budget
Negatives: Old School, Not a hit with the wife in brand terms
5. Renault Duster RXE 85 Diesel/Petrol
Positives: it has the image to put a smile on the face of the mrs
Negatives: Entry model is low on features, unhappy with interiors, unsure of Renault A.S.S. experience, stretching budget in the case of diesel, Petrol model is a wild card - don’t know anyone that owns one


So guys, could you please help me cross evaluate my choices? Any help is appreciated.

Also if any bhpian owns petrol duster, his feedback about the car would help

Last edited by acidkill : 21st November 2012 at 22:50.
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Old 21st November 2012, 22:41   #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acidkill
Gentlemen,

Need some advice in helping choosing!

My requirements
1. Budget: ~8 OTR
2. Body Type: Sedan Only, preferably diesel
3. Needs: Ladies car for the Dr Mrs, Image, Lightness in the city, High FE, Low Maintenance, Good Resale, Good A.S.S.
4. What we have evaluated and Rejected Already: Linea, Manza, Etios, Dzire, SX4, New Fiesta, Quanto
5. Out of bounds: Vento/Rapid (as we already own a vento)
6. Running Needs: About 600-750 Kms a month

Contenders
1. Honda City Corporate
Positives: It is my prime choice. Honda is Honda. Jewel of an engine, gem of a car. Its light, has image, good FE, Maintenance Free, great resale.
Negatives: The future of petrol prices is playing on our mind
2. Hyundai Verna CRDI 1.4
Positives: Its a diesel, fluidic looks
Negatives: Low on equipment, No sample cars around, Dealers discourage buying this version, would not choose the petrol version over the Honda city ever.
3. Nissan Sunny / Renault Scala
Positives: Size
Negatives: Looks are about average, dull interiors, diesel moves out of budget
4. Ford Classic Diesel
Positives: Its a diesel sedan and in budget
Negatives: Old School, Not a hit with the wife in brand terms
5. Renault Duster RXE 85 Diesel/Petrol
Positives: it has the image to put a smile on the face of the mrs
Negatives: Entry model is low on features, unhappy with interiors, unsure of Renault A.S.S. experience, stretching budget in the case of diesel, Petrol model is a wild card - don't know anyone that owns one

So guys, could you please help me cross evaluate my choices? Any help is appreciated.

Also if any bhpian owns petrol duster, his feedback about the car would help
A Honda City is the best bet for you. It has a gem of an engine.

I've not come across anybody who owns a petrol Duster. It offers an excellent ride comfort. But IMHO, investing in a petrol Duster is a gamble. It seems like even Renault isnt interested in selling petrol variants of Duster.

EDIT: For your monthly running of 700 kms, a diesel wouldn't be required. Hence suggested against Hyundai Verna. For 8 lakhs, it will be a bare bones model, skimping on safety features.

Last edited by Rufus_M : 21st November 2012 at 22:45.
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Old 21st November 2012, 23:17   #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acidkill
Gentlemen,

Need some advice to help me choose!

My requirements
1. Budget: ~8 OTR
2. Body Type: Sedan Only, preferably diesel
3. Needs: Ladies car for the Dr Mrs, Image, Lightness in the city, High FE, Low Maintenance, Good Resale, Good A.S.S.
4. What we have evaluated and Rejected Already: Linea, Manza, Etios, Dzire, SX4, New Fiesta, Quanto
5. Out of bounds: Vento/Rapid (as we already own a vento)
6. Running Needs: About 600-750 Kms a month

Contenders
1. Honda City Corporate
Positives: It is my prime choice. Honda is Honda. Jewel of an engine, gem of a car. Its light, has image, good FE, Maintenance Free, great resale.
Negatives: The future of petrol prices is playing on our mind
For 750 kms a month, a petrol would be the better option anyday.

Also for women, diesel may turn out to be a bit of chore, heavy clutch and gearbox etc.

The rest, well you said it correctly
"A Honda is a Honda"
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Old 22nd November 2012, 23:41   #311
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

My Dear BHPians, Gurus!

I am stuck too with the classic dilemma! I am finding it hard to pick the right car...should it be my Mind over heart or Heart over Mind?

Current Scene:

With the petrol prices sky rocketing, It is imperative that i sell my beloved i20 sportzy :(

Requirement:
A Good Diesel Car - Sedan with an OTR not more than 10.5 Lacs.

Specifications:
1. Safety First - Solid Build Quality
2. Can Seat 5
3. Excellent Handling
4. Decent Mileage
5. Longevity of the engine ( I intend to keep it for about 8 years)
6. Looks (I particularly like the European Look)


Test Drives in the last 3 months:

1. Hyundai i20 CRDI Asta

Pluses: Great Looking Car (it kind of looks like European to me)
Great Feature List (including firsts in class)
Well Priced (at least i think it is given its features)
Good Engine (hits 80 kmph @ 1500 rpm!)
Great Color Options
No Waiting Period

Negatives: NOT a Sedan!
Bad Handling @ +100 KMPH ( I rarely hit that speed)
OK Build Quality
I have an i20 already...so looking for something different, fresh

Decision: Dropped from the list


Punto Sports 90 HP

Pluses: Great Build Quality
Very Fun to Drive
Beautiful Looking Car
No Waiting Period
Decent Features (with the absolute edition)

Negatives: NOT a Sedan
Pool Color Options
Small Boot Space

Decision: Dropped from the list

Tata Indigo Manza

Pluses: Excellent value for money
Club Class really looks upwards of 10 Lac Car
Good Driving Dynamics.
Excellent Space. Shoulder and Head
Enormous Boot.
Decent Feature List.

Negatives: Classic TATA Niggles
TATA Taxi Image
Puny Wheels (15 inchers look puny on the Manza!)

Decision: Dropped from the list


Skoda Rapid:

Pluses: Excellent Looks
Super Build Quality and Paint Job
Excellent Ride and Handling
Negatives: Skoda Service Horror Stories (didn't want to risk it)
Poor feature list (Ambition + doesn't even have Automatic AC! for 10.6 Lacs)
Very restricted space at the back.

Decision: Dropped from the list.


Fiat Linea 2012:

Pluses: Jaw Dropping Looks
Solid Build
Beautiful Colors
Safety Features
Ground Clearance
Excellent Handling
Foldable Rear Seat
500 Ltr Boot

Negatives: Restricted rear seat space
Not so great Leg Room

Decision: Booking the Dynamic Version (Fully Loaded Sans the 16 inch alloys and Leather Seat)

Dear Gurus, Please let me know what do you think of my choice. Have I made the right decision?
I did check out the Fiesta Classic, The Fabia, The Quanto, The Bolero and even the Xylo along with Ertiga. But these cars never came really close to be considered.

Will wait eagerly for your views.
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Old 23rd November 2012, 00:22   #312
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravi Krish View Post
Decision: Booking the Dynamic Version (Fully Loaded Sans the 16 inch alloys and Leather Seat)

Dear Gurus, Please let me know what do you think of my choice. Have I made the right decision?

Will wait eagerly for your views.
Firstly from the looks of it, you are sold on the Linea. Firstly for more on how an ownership can turn, you can check my thread out here

Dynamic Version makes sense if you are tight on the budget. For the additional 60-70K you would get bigger wheels and wider tyres. The Turbine Blade alloys are simply awesome and enhance the looks of the car.

Secondly it comes with 3 head rests instead of two at the rear seats. Though it would hardly make a difference if the rear seats are hardly used.

Also the spare wheel is also an alloy in the emotion variant.

Which dealer by the way are you booking the car with? Do pm me if you need help.
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Old 23rd November 2012, 00:27   #313
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravi Krish View Post
I am stuck too with the classic dilemma! I am finding it hard to pick the right car...should it be my Mind over heart or Heart over Mind?

A Good Diesel Car - Sedan with an OTR not more than 10.5 Lacs.

Specifications:
1. Safety First - Solid Build Quality
2. Can Seat 5
3. Excellent Handling
4. Decent Mileage
5. Longevity of the engine ( I intend to keep it for about 8 years)
6. Looks (I particularly like the European Look)

Dear Gurus, Please let me know what do you think of my choice. Have I made the right decision?

Will wait eagerly for your views.
If you're in no hurry, you could wait for the Chevy Sail sedan. It's expected to arrive in the first quarter of 2013. But be warned. Build quality is more Japanese / Korean than 'European' like. It does not look very European either so it does not tick all your specified boxes.

On the flip-side, it will give you good mileage, will be able to seat 5 and it does ride and handle rather well, going by the Sail hatchback. The Fiat sourced Smartech diesel (MJD) is a good one and should last the distance.

It's nice to see that you've zeroed in on the Linea. More and more people are taking that leap of faith these days, I've noticed.

I also suggest you give the Rapid another look. It's an option that's very hard to ignore.
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Old 23rd November 2012, 05:56   #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
Firstly from the looks of it, you are sold on the Linea. Firstly for more on how an ownership can turn, you can check my thread out here

Dynamic Version makes sense if you are tight on the budget. For the additional 60-70K you would get bigger wheels and wider tyres. The Turbine Blade alloys are simply awesome and enhance the looks of the car.

Secondly it comes with 3 head rests instead of two at the rear seats. Though it would hardly make a difference if the rear seats are hardly used.

Also the spare wheel is also an alloy in the emotion variant.

Which dealer by the way are you booking the car with? Do pm me if you need help.
Hi NKrishnaP...I have read your ownership thread here and on TeamFiat in and out! Your BNW Linea is mouth watering and looks good to eat!

As for the Linea...yes i am quite sold on it.

Thanks for the information on the spare alloy...i didn't know the fifth wheel is a steel one. Will look into my account book again and see if i can stretch further to go for the Emotion Variant.

I am quite a fan of the BNW. Presently my i20 is a white one and i am finding it difficult to maintain it clean. There have been three people who had agreed to wash it everyday...but none of them stuck...all of them quit! keeping this in mind...I am looking at either Tyrian Wine or Minimal Grey as my options.

cheers!

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
If you're in no hurry, you could wait for the Chevy Sail sedan. It's expected to arrive in the first quarter of 2013. But be warned. Build quality is more Japanese / Korean than 'European' like. It does not look very European either so it does not tick all your specified boxes.

On the flip-side, it will give you good mileage, will be able to seat 5 and it does ride and handle rather well, going by the Sail hatchback. The Fiat sourced Smartech diesel (MJD) is a good one and should last the distance.

It's nice to see that you've zeroed in on the Linea. More and more people are taking that leap of faith these days, I've noticed.

I also suggest you give the Rapid another look. It's an option that's very hard to ignore.

Dear Suhaas307...I did try the Chevy Sail too. It has the 76 PS MJD too. I didn't like the boot space and also the looks of the car from the rear. The front looks quite appealing. I have heard a lot of horror stories about the AVEO. It somehow did not make me feel it belongs in my house!

As for the Linea...yes! it is my heart over my mind.

I hope I end up buying it and i get to keep it for a long period. Having owned a Fiat Palio earllier, I have tasted TATA-FIAT A.S.S...but i believe they have come a long way now to warrant my renewed faith in them. With FIAT coming up with their own service network (Finally)...the ownership should be interesting.

Cheers!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post

Which dealer by the way are you booking the car with? Do pm me if you need help.
Dear nkrishnap...I have zeroed in on Prerna Motors. I am in touch with Karthik too. Nice Gentleman him!

I will surely PM you for any help.

I have been offered a Rs. 5000 additional discount on top of the existing scheme. Is that OK? or should i bargain for more?

Cheers!

Last edited by suhaas307 : 23rd November 2012 at 11:51. Reason: Merging consecutive posts. Please use EDIT / MULTI QUOTE option within 30-minutes of posting :)
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Old 23rd November 2012, 06:57   #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravi Krish

I am quite a fan of the BNW. Presently my i20 is a white one and i am finding it difficult to maintain it clean. There have been three people who had agreed to wash it everyday...but none of them stuck...all of them quit! keeping this in mind...I am looking at either Tyrian Wine or Minimal Grey as my options.

cheers!
A great choice there, Ravi Krish!!

The Linea will keep you happy for years to come. The only downside of Linea is that the fifth passenger is a tight fit.

If you think that BN white is difficult to maintain, then be sure Tuscan Wine is a pain. I can say this with surety since I own a Tuscan Wine Punto. But a well maintained Wine colored Linea looks absolutely gorgeous!!
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