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Old 17th December 2012, 12:57   #391
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

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Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
The car does not even have a proper fire retardent material under the carpet which is giving the shape to the floor of the floor. If you dont trust me, please open it up and have a look it.

In the name of cost cutting, the manufacturers are taking it too far and this applies to all manufacturers and not Nissan/Renault alone.
There is no reason for me to not to trust you mate !! , moreover i don't own the car for me to open it up. As it is, if it is here on team BHP, then there are all the reasons for me to trust it.

Unfortunately, premium tag in India is defined by the price tag of the vehicle. Why scala sells defeats me, since it offers everything the same as what the Sunny offers and does not justify the price difference. Anyways, thats better left for a debate for some other day. It was just the usual / general public perception i was talking about here when i mentioned Sunny (to a lesser extent) & Scala as a premium product
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Old 17th December 2012, 13:06   #392
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

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Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
The sunny and scala simply does not do much good in the areas other than 1.5 litres proven diesel engine and the space. The rest of it is below par than the competition. The noise proofing is the worst of the lot. Simply open up the carpets and you will see for yourself.

Plonking 11 lakhs for a car that does not even provide proper noise insulation is a no no for me. But the market thinks otherwise.
@Krishna : That is exactly what Nissan has targeted - Spacious/reliable/ride confort/mileage. Infact Nissan has always tried to project it as the most spacious car.

I never checked the insulation under the carpet but I can tell you that from the inside the car is quite silent. I thought that it was because of engine refinement and better NVH protection.

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The Sunny Diesel is as practical as a Corolla 1.4L D4-D for ½ the price. It's a great family sedan carrying a VFM price tag. The Sunny does have a fair share of flaws though, chief amongst them being the shoddy dealer network, slow-to-react brake pedal and expressway behaviour. An enthusiast should never buy the Sunny as his only car as he'll get too bored driving it.

Some cars try to be too many things to too many people. Nissan was very clear with the objective of the Sunny. That is, a spacious, reliable, efficient & no-fuss mode of transportation that will please all and offend none.
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The Sunny is all about chauffeur-driven comfort. Rear seat space & luxury were our primary deal makers. There is enough room here to fit 6-footers back to back (with kneeroom to spare!!). Coupled with the soft suspension, overall comfort levels are easily superior to D1 segment cars like the Civic, Cruze, Jetta & Laura. Its direct competitors (right from the Dzire to the City) are not even in contention. Flip the center armrest down, stretch your legs, switch on the rear blower and you are all set for an über luxurious ride.

Engine refinement when cruising at 100 - 120 kph is outstanding. Most passengers can be fooled into believing that they are sitting in a petrol car. On the flip side, tyre noise is noticeably high at 100 kph.
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Old 17th December 2012, 13:36   #393
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

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I never checked the insulation under the carpet but I can tell you that from the inside the car is quite silent. I thought that it was because of engine refinement and better NVH protection.
Which car are you referring to here? The Sunny/Scala.

I can tell you that the 1.5 DCi engine does need a good noise insulation to keep the engine noise intruding into the cabin. Secondly, the road noise intrusion is worse than the Etios Twins. The buyers of these cars need to switch to silent tyres to ensure atleast the road noise is kept at bay.

We have tried all sorts of things to get the cabin silent in the diesel sunny. The things done on the car is dampening sheets on the floor. Changed the bridgestone tyres to Yokos AVS DB. The only thing left is to open up the dashboard and use the sound deadening material to keep the engine noise intruding into the cabin at bay.

The car is nice to drive with zilch turbo lag, decent feature level and very spacious. The good things ends here. You need to spend a bit to get it to acceptable levels atleast from the NVH perpective.

I am not contesting here to prove that Sunny/Scala is a bad car, but only trying to highlight the shortfalls in the car for the price paid.
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Old 17th December 2012, 14:05   #394
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

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Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
I can tell you that the 1.5 DCi engine does need a good noise insulation to keep the engine noise intruding into the cabin. Secondly, the road noise intrusion is worse than the Etios Twins. The buyers of these cars need to switch to silent tyres to ensure atleast the road noise is kept at bay.
The engine is pretty silent. There is the initial grumbling for the first few seconds and then it becomes really silent. The excess noise in the cabin is from the tyres I guess.

The bigger grouse than the NVH levels ( which I find acceptable in my sunny) is the gear shift. Its quite notchy and takes away from the driving pleasure specially if you are used to a more smoother gear box.
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Old 17th December 2012, 14:08   #395
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
The engine is pretty silent. There is the initial grumbling for the first few seconds and then it becomes really silent. The excess noise in the cabin is from the tyres I guess.

The bigger grouse than the NVH levels ( which I find acceptable in my sunny) is the gear shift. Its quite notchy and takes away from the driving pleasure specially if you are used to a more smoother gear box.
On the tyre noise, completely agree, but on the engine front, I can vouch what we are experiencing. The engine noise intrudes into the cabin. We are planning to open up the dashboard and get the noise proofing material added to ensure the engine noise stays at bay. But how far it will be successful is one thing I cannot guarantee. These things are best done the manufacturer level.

Not too bothered about the gear shifts, but the engine noise is really high inside the cabin as opposed to other cars.

PS: Its not just with this Sunny, a couple of Scala and sunny's too faced the same issues.
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Old 17th December 2012, 14:33   #396
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And how does the cabin noise compare to some of the others that we are discussing here? As I said, I do remember reading that Vento tdi also makes a lot of noise.
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Old 17th December 2012, 22:06   #397
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

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Originally Posted by travelex View Post
And how does the cabin noise compare to some of the others that we are discussing here? As I said, I do remember reading that Vento tdi also makes a lot of noise.
Yes the Vento is audible from the inside but not so much that it is harsh. The Fiesta is "quiet" when compared to the Vento. People who like to hear their car engines when they drown the throttle wouldn't mind the Vento Apparently the Rapid is less audible than the Vento even though they're basically the same car! But the Volkswagen has better equipment, speedo and centre console lighting and service history than the Skoda.
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Old 17th December 2012, 22:55   #398
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

I have been following this thread pretty closely and whenever I see a discussion on Rapid we stop at the same point i.e. the A**. But there are many very satisfied Rapid owners (me included). I am not telling I will never have problems with them but one thing for sure Skoda makes some amazing cars.

I happened to visit the skoda workshop here in Bangalore ( near KR Puram) and found the guys more responsive than the Advaith Hyundai guys in Whitefield. There are well behaved and took care of my needs pretty well.

Be it 0-100+ or the mind blowing mid range its a wonderful machine, yes it might not be the best car to drive in the city bumper to bumper traffic but once you get a free stretch it moves like a bullet. For me its 5000 Kms so far and I m enjoying it day in day out. Be aware of the fact that if you drive a Rapid or vento for that matter it might be a little difficult for you to like some other cars in this segment.

Buying a skoda car is like Love at first sight where you just surrender to the feeling of being in love without thinking much . At least I m enjoying my love ( As long as it lasts).

My two cents.
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Old 18th December 2012, 01:21   #399
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Originally Posted by sam_boy View Post
I have been following this thread pretty closely and whenever I see a discussion on Rapid we stop at the same point i.e. the A**.

Buying a skoda car is like Love at first sight where you just surrender to the feeling of being in love without thinking much . At least I m enjoying my love ( As long as it lasts).

My two cents.
Thanks Sam Boy I am in the market for a diesel sedan & believe you me I did fall in love with the rapid at first sight. I have been convinced by the build quality of the car & the driveability is fabulous. Now the A** is what is holding me back. As long as it is just irritation or high handedness i can manage however if its incompetence thats harmful. Its a given the service will be expensive as its every 15K Kms. What is the real problem with them? Is it a particular dealer or all of them? I am presently dealing with autobahn in mumbai and would appreciate some clarity.

Dont get me wrong but i have never seen courteous, smiling & eager to cheer staff at any dealer except the sales staff. They always feel they do a favor giving us service. This is true in my cases for companies - Maruti & Hyundai for my cars and Bajaj & TVS for my bikes. Now these are the so called brands with the best A**, the servicing was satisfactory but their staff was still useless & curt.
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Old 18th December 2012, 12:32   #400
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

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Originally Posted by travelex View Post
And how does the cabin noise compare to some of the others that we are discussing here? As I said, I do remember reading that Vento tdi also makes a lot of noise.
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Originally Posted by Vivek Jayan View Post
Yes the Vento is audible from the inside but not so much that it is harsh. The Fiesta is "quiet" when compared to the Vento. People who like to hear their car engines when they drown the throttle wouldn't mind the Vento Apparently the Rapid is less audible than the Vento even though they're basically the same car! But the Volkswagen has better equipment, speedo and centre console lighting and service history than the Skoda.
As rightly said by @Vivek, the vento engine is audible from inside at any speed. But the Rapid's engine is surprisingly silent (once warmed up) compared to the Vento. It appears that Skoda has spent a lot of time on improving the NVH insulation of the Rapid.

The Rapid's dash looks less premium than the Vento, the audio is a basic unit without USB and steering monted controls (not sure if these have been upgraded).On the contrary the Rapid has a superior suspension setup over the Vento and high speed braking is fantastic. This makes the Rapid more suitable than the Vento in the typical Indian highway conditions.
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Old 18th December 2012, 12:41   #401
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Originally Posted by Sommos View Post

The Rapid's dash looks less premium than the Vento, the audio is a basic unit without USB and steering monted controls (not sure if these have been upgraded).
No there has been no upgrade done as yet. Specifically for this reason i am trying get the ambition without the stereo so that I can fit my own ICE.
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Old 18th December 2012, 14:23   #402
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

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Originally Posted by Sommos View Post
As rightly said by @Vivek, the vento engine is audible from inside at any speed. But the Rapid's engine is surprisingly silent (once warmed up) compared to the Vento
I dont know if its a misconception or a fact but our own moderator team had said that they had tested an older Vento - not the refreshed one and the refreshed Vento had better improved sound damping.

You can go in to my thread and read the comparisons - i own a July,2012 Vento TDi and a close friend owns a March, 2012 Rapid TDi, we both have driven each other's cars for atleast half the distance of what both cars have clocked.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post2940478

Believe me when i say - noise levels in both cars are the same - be it idle, 2000 rpm, 3000 rpm etc. We tested both cars on a cold quiet morning and both of us agreed that engine noise levels are exactly same. Go have a TD of both cars back to back but make sure the test drive Vento is a newer one.

The difference is there in suspension, Rapid is stiffer sprung which helps in the handling department but the potholes make their way in, its upto you to decide, if you drive spiritedly always, go for Rapid, if not you can choose anything. Interiors etc are better in Vento ofcourse and for A.S.S, i dont know - both are devils

As for comparison with Linea, my 3 year old Linea with 39k old tyres still rides and handles better than both Vento and Rapid, i can make out the difference while cornering, Linea is the segment best in ride and handling but disappoints with after sales, average interiors and anaemic engines.
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Old 18th December 2012, 16:04   #403
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

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I dont know if its a misconception or a fact but our own moderator team had said that they had tested an older Vento - not the refreshed one and the refreshed Vento had better improved sound damping.

Believe me when i say - noise levels in both cars are the same - be it idle, 2000 rpm, 3000 rpm etc. We tested both cars on a cold quiet morning and both of us agreed that engine noise levels are exactly same. Go have a TD of both cars back to back but make sure the test drive Vento is a newer one.

My observation was based on the TD of both the cars taken in Mar/Apr 2012.
Maybe VW has improved the NVH insulation later or maybe the TD car was from the old model. Your point is accepted and I will centainly check the Vento next time when I get an oppurtunity.

Apart from this you seem to agree on the other differences between the Vento and the Rapid.
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Old 21st December 2012, 14:00   #404
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

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I have been following this thread pretty closely and whenever I see a discussion on Rapid we stop at the same point i.e. the A**. But there are many very satisfied Rapid owners (me included)..
I recently bought the Rapid and I totally agree with sam_boy. The A.S.S maybe an unknown devil but it is definitely improving. Check out Kryptonite's ownership thread, him and many others have explained their services experiences which isn't all that bad at all. Yes you may not get the same loving as given by Maruti but that's alright, the car definitely makes up for that.

I am at around 3000 kms now and extremely satisfied.
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Old 22nd December 2012, 04:12   #405
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

Guys, I know that the Optra Magnum was discontinued by GM a good 6 months ago. Considering the fact that this car never set the sales chart on fire, is there any way I can get one now? Unsold 2012 stock? My friend made a few inquiries with Orange in Hyderabad but was told that they stopped selling Optra Magnum and instead tried to get him interested in the yet-to-be-launched Sail sedan. My friend has no interest in it. He only wants the Magnum.

Any suggestions as to how to get an Optra Magnum now?
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