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Old 23rd November 2014, 23:08   #991
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

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Originally Posted by FINTAIL View Post
Okay, agreed. The issue now is- The car needs to be storage friendly, right. And here's why. For two years maybe, the car will be used day and night. Sure. And for the next two, it might have to sit at home for 10 months, and be used properly only in 2 months.

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Originally Posted by D4D View Post
i20: No problem. High speeds? 6 speed MT. Smooth acceleration? Delivered. Maintenance issue? Nope.
Not sure about the maintenance part. But that point not withstanding, even I would suggest a second look at the new i20. Even though you mention, it would stay at home some time after 2 years of usage, but look at it this way, you are going to drive it for 60k in 2 years. Thats a lot of driving. You need a good comfortable, stable, safe and frugal car for the highway. In spite of the service costs, I would say Hyundai has a good network. From that point of view it qualifies. What I cant say is how does it satisfy your storage requirement.

If you need the boot but nor rear seat, The Fiesta is the perfect answer. For the amount you are driving, its only diesel that comes to mind.
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Old 24th November 2014, 01:43   #992
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You have said you aren't looking at the compact sedans , but my suggestion would be to TD the new Dzire and the Amaze.

Having been in the market for a larger and more expensive car , I ended buying the Amaze and almost ended up selling it off within the first 3 months of owning it. All thanks to the idiots at Honda dealerships.

Today , having driven this car for 31 K kms in 17 months ( nothing compared to TBhpian Arun Josie who has done similar kms in less than a year ) , all I can say is that I am now starting to like this vehicle. It does have its shortcomings ( you will find 100K pages on this ) , but when it comes to providing reliable , hassle free motoring ...this car hasn't failed to Amaze me

Meets all the requirements you have listed.

About the Dzire , you will again find 100K topics on why it has been the leader consistently

Do TD and let us know.
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Old 24th November 2014, 02:13   #993
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Default Re: Replacement for Palio Multijet in 2015

Have heard that FIAT will be launching the BRAVO in the first half of the coming year.
Though it will have the same engines, 75 & 90 HP.

I haven't heard of the 1.6l coming in yet.

The 90HP Punto is identical to the 75HP in terms of performance up to the 3rd gear and then the difference starts.

My wife went in for a 90HP Punto and she uses it in the hills of Himachal and I for one am very happy with it. Both from a performance and ground clearance perspective.
However not many opportunities are open / present to take it effectively beyond the 4th gear - I mean from a speed perspective. So 90HP in the hills is moot. That still does not change the fact that we wanted the 90HP only.

This is the 3rd FIAT in the family, started with a 1.2Sport Palio, still exists but second gear is terrible in the hills, unless you have sufficient momentum. And it DRINKS.

Second is a Linea MJ, (Karnataka) which is fine wherever it goes, First batch or so Jan 2009 manufacture, hence still with the low ground clearance, have learnt (touchwood) to live with it, don't want to move to the improved ground clearance kit.

The 90HP Punto (Himachal) is the latest. Was not much of a contest while picking it up.

Wife was learning to drive when it was picked up and initially hated the Punto, she found it heavy, huge, unwieldy, she learnt driving on the light cars, Marutis, Hyundais, etc,

And she has driven most other small cars and now emphatically claims to love the Punto.
That nothing compares to it, everyway, handling, build, quality, comfort and even performance, ha ha, I guess she basically likes diesels. This coming from a person who has no automotive underpinnings, is surprising.
She keeps hinting that the Punto might be surpassed by the Linea, especially on the highway in terms of handling, stability. Not sure if she wants the Linea now

Had done a lot of comparisons while buying the Palio.
So far absolutely happy with the FIATs, did not consider any other brands when picking the Linea or Punto.
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Old 24th November 2014, 15:15   #994
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Default Re: Replacement for Palio Multijet in 2015

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Originally Posted by PM - B View Post
Have heard that FIAT will be launching the BRAVO in the first half of the coming year.
.....
Not sure of the Bravo making it to Indian shores anytime soon.

Reference -

http://indianautosblog.com/2014/10/2...t-bravo-154529

http://indianautosblog.com/wp-conten...-for-India.jpg
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Old 24th November 2014, 17:15   #995
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

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Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
Fiesta
Considering you mentioned a Volvo S60, is it right fir me to assume you could stretch your budget a little over 10lacs? In which case, the Renaul Fluence D
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Originally Posted by D4D View Post
When you talk about high usage, it's the Japanese cars that come to my mind. Don't get me mistaken, even Hyundais are reliable.
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Originally Posted by petrolhead_neel View Post
The Linea T-Jet is a fantastic car which mostly suits all your needs. I would highly recommend it to you.
The Suzuki GV is no doubt a great car. But finding a used one is a mission in itself.
A mission you say? I'm armed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ampere View Post
If you need the boot but nor rear seat, The Fiesta is the perfect answer. For the amount you are driving, its only diesel that comes to mind.
To sum it up, as I feel I have not been clear enough-

I need a car, that can be used day & night throughly on the highways. The driving involved will almost be termed as excessive, I know. The running- Approx 30+ k kilometers, annually.

Now, the chances are high that the initial 2 years will be extreme. But, after that the car will be sitting at home for 10 months a year, and be used properly for merely 2 months.

So, should it be Diesel or Petrol?

Preference should be given to excellent driving dynamics, good handling, and understated looks.So, there you go- Elegant. Quick. Quirky, if need be. Reliable. Somewhat charismatic.

The budget is to be capped within one million INR.

: It is not as if I'm telling that Hyundai Diesel's are unreliable. In East Africa, we have an A4, and the Elantra. So, the A4 is at 80k clicks, in 6 years. The Elantra is at 2,50,000 clicks.

I love the A4, but it is nigglesome. The Elantra is reliable, but I really don't like it. Silly of me, yes. Hyundai's seem lifeless.

So, for our next car here, I decided to avoid the Teutonic trinity aka, the Merc, the Beemers and The DKW's. Went for the Volvo S60. Liked it, but the thought of throwing 40 big ones on a car like this, for such strainous use. Naw. No Volvo.

So, here we are. Complicated, yes. But note one thing, the car will be coming in October '15. So, according to that....

Last edited by FINTAIL : 24th November 2014 at 17:19.
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Old 25th November 2014, 00:31   #996
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

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Originally Posted by ToyotaFan View Post
The best car for your needs will be the Honda Jazz which will be launched in India by the second half of 2015.
If the Jazz is something like the Honda City, I may consider it, but you'd notice I am considering cars with excellent ride quality and good Ground Clearance. My Palio has a GC of 170 and a short-ish wheelbase coupled with a stiff suspension at low speeds and I am not looking for anything worse than that, definitely.

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Originally Posted by lamborghini View Post
In addition to the Punto, I would highly recommend the Fiesta.
For most part, Ford dealers are quite good, and the car is simply superb to drive! A perfect change from the multi-jet! Ride and handling is a notch above the Linea, as are ergonomics. Build quality is as good as well.
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Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
Fiesta fits the bill perfectly; the best handling, solid ride, supportive seats, basic safety kit on all variants, tractable motor though not powerful, solid build.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenren View Post
I too recommended Fiesta and the OP has replied that he is not confident with the spares availability and other possible problems associated with models that sold very less a few years later. Considering he might be keeping it for a longer than usual time frame, there is a chance he might face spares issues after 5-6 years or so, similar to what he is facing now with his Palio.
I have driven the Fiesta in the Ford Safe Drive programme two years ago and that point of time I liked it so much I had it in my mind. But I am not investing a million rupees on a non-seller. I will be getting peanuts for my Palio and I would like to avoid the same situation again.

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Originally Posted by zenren View Post
The new YRA hatch from Maruti might be another 90PS MJD to look at, in case it is almost ready to be launched by then. Based on the images so far, it seems reasonably spacious.
I will definitely look at the YRA, but I hope its not too similar to the Ciaz. It will definitely be more expensive than the Punto / Polo else it will eat into Swift sales (and I don't see Maruti discontinuing Swift for the YRA!)

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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
That aside, why not consider the wave of the new vehicles that may have the AMT? (basically anyone else besides a Tata) You're a busy self-employed professional on a limited budget- you may not want a driver.
My sister is readying herself for an AMT Celerio as an Alto replacement. The only AMT which suits my purpose is the Zest, which is a great package but I am not fully confident of a Tata purchase.

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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
I mean yes the Swift will accelerate nice and hard but the feeling from behind the wheel is so appalingly tinny that it will put you off. Personally I would recommend the new Avventura(saw one yesterday and boy it has got presence), Ecosport or the new Fiesta. Ford dealers aren't that bad and their cars for most part are fairly trouble free.
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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
Have you considered an Avventura?
I absolutely love it and I think you will too!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Boss View Post
Hatch : Punto 90HP
Pseudo SUV (???) : Ecosport / Avventura
Sedan : Linea
I don't see any other car could satisfy you after driving Fiat Palio extensively. Since you already have Fiat A.S.S experience, Fiat or Ford in future shouldn't be an issue.
Like I said earlier, the Linea MJD, Punto 90HP and the Avventura are my fall back options. The dealer is willing to take my existing car too and I have the advantage of good treatment from the ASC. These are the options I will take if anything else does not excite me.

The only problem is that my car might outlast the ASC or the company in India (think 7-10 years and 1.5-2.0 lakh km). Which is why I am thinking seriously about whether with sales of 100-200 units a month, it makes sense to buy the Linea. The Punto still sells 600 odd units a month, so that can be considered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PM - B View Post
The 90HP Punto is identical to the 75HP in terms of performance up to the 3rd gear and then the difference starts.
I am willing to pay that extra Rs 50,000 for that little bit of extra grunt in 4th gear and 5th gear on the highways. I know both cars are the same in city traffic, though with the different tuning on the Avventura, the engine actually pulls much smoother and even beats the Ecosport upto 80 km/hr as per some data on the forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramzsys View Post
There might be a slight disappointment with the top end when driving the 8v motor of the diesel fiesta.
However it is all smiles in the urban conditions where <2000 rpm throttle response(too) matters.
Most small capacity turbo-diesels either have a decent bottom-end or a good mid-range. The TDCI has the former, the MJD has the latter. The MJD is not meant for gunning in the city, but its highway performance helps. I have driven the old Ford Fiesta Classic, the Liva etc and I keep waiting for a mid-range rush that never comes! The new Fiesta is better, though. It is a choice I have to make.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Duster is a good upgrade from Palio. You will get wonderfully absorbent ride, long lasting robust mechanicals, ability to take abuse, good ground clearance, decent enough handling, good performance, still getting you good FE and option of the capable AWD variant that can take you places, but only if you willing to overlook Ergonomic Disasters, Poor seating comfort(for a vehicle of this price), cattle class interiors(even the new Alto K10 has better plastics) and some more.
The Duster has been on my radar always, but it is just out of reach. I am not interested in the 85 HP option. The whole point of spending extra money on the Duster is to use its highway capabilities, not to show-off, therefore I won't buy the 85 HP.

The Duster 110 also has another thing about it, which is that it is right in the Scorpio S8 / XUV 500 W4 territory. If I increase my budget so much, the comparisons also change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Ecosport is another good option, though not as bad road abuse friendly as the Duster. Interiors feel premium, handling is fun, Engine refined, features list is fat, ground clearance is good enough, is cheaper to buy compared to Duster but lacks AWD variant, engine though refined and based on the tried and tested 1.4 TDCI that been around since decade offers just about decent performance(nothing like 110ps Duster), Ride is nowhere as good as Duster and space is at premium.
I would prefer a mechanically durable and safe vehicle, rather than a stylish but delicate one. At some point, I realised that by paying nearly 3 lakhs over the Punto 90 HP (8.7L OTR vs 11.xxL OTR), I am only getting 15 mm more GC, a little more rear seat space and two more air-bags. I really need a detailed TD to be convinced.

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Originally Posted by D4D View Post
Why not the 100 bhp honda Amaze? It's powerful, torquey, efficient and noisy too.
I hear that lag is a problem in the 90 bhp ertiga too. (Thoughh fiat might have changed the tuning)
The i20 is one of the best highway cruiser thanks to it's 6 speed MT and loads of torque. Talking about offroad ability, Ertiga(GC: 185mm can handle most rough roads)
The i20 has low seating and a bad ingress. But it gives you tonnes of space for a hatch. Why not the ertiga in this case?
Most cars get ABS and D+P airbags in top variants.
2WD(85 bhp) is worth the stretch. But you really will feel over charged once you the interior. Why not check Dzire too? (75 bhp though).
Duster 85 HP: If I am spending extra to buy a Duster, I would take the 110 HP for its higwhay performance.
Ertiga: I need 5 seats so I won't pay for seven (read my signature for my attitude towards life). Which is why I am not particularly interested in Scorpio or XUV500 besides poor FE.

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Originally Posted by D4D View Post
For a family car, forget the Polo. But a terrific machine.
That rear seat and that attitude of the company, both put me off. Everything else is fine, though a nicer steering and tighter handling might have helped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Boss View Post
Both were ruled out already.
i20, I'm not sure if he could live with it's handling performance after driving Palio.
I like the i20 as a package, but it doesn't excite me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenren View Post
Maruti (especially with proper tyres) is equally good as the Europeans when it comes to handling. I'm speaking from my experience with Zen/Swift/Esteem/Baleno.
No complaints with the Swift's handling. I am not likely to throw a mini-bus like the Ertiga around corners (just joking about the seven seats!).

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedsatya View Post
You have said you aren't looking at the compact sedans , but my suggestion would be to TD the new Dzire and the Amaze.
About the Dzire , you will again find 100K topics on why it has been the leader consistently
I don't need a sedan per se, I just need better rear seat space and I don't have image issues (I wear torn jeans to my site and Tintin T-shirts to office on Monday, so I am not hankering for a boot to bolster my image). The Dzire and the Amaze are cars which are better VFM without the boot. (Of course, the Amaze doesn't have a 'boot-less' diesel version).

I have driven the Amaze and the new Swift (for friends and for www.cartoq.com, again!). The Amaze comes across as bad as a Brio when you put it over some rough stretches which is a common occurence in Noida / Ghaziabad / Gurgaon roads, forget about the state highways of UP.

The only interesting compact sedan is the Zest. But then, if the Bolt is equally well-loaded, I would take the Bolt hatchback instead. If.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Pick your set of compromises!
That, sadly is the crux of the matter. Every car is full of compromises, even though I am not asking for things like tons of features, power-folding mirrors or bluetooth thingummyjigs. I want a car that drives well and is safe, efficient, robust, capable of Indian roads and comfortable and I am willing to spend a million bucks, too.
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Old 25th November 2014, 06:41   #997
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

Help me understand the whole highway thing better. My swift hasn't really made me feel out of breath (except the diesel lag at 40 kph on single lane roads).

To my mind, ease of driving in city (80% of your driving hours and bulk of the pain) overrides the car's ability to cruise beyond 120 or to reach 100 0.1 second faster than the swift for example. I was quite okay with the duster 85 - much more than the ertiga's lethargic performance in comparison!
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Old 30th November 2014, 07:12   #998
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Post Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

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Originally Posted by architect View Post
That, sadly is the crux of the matter. Every car is full of compromises, even though I am not asking for things like tons of features, power-folding mirrors or bluetooth thingummyjigs. I want a car that drives well and is safe, efficient, robust, capable of Indian roads and comfortable and I am willing to spend a million bucks, too.
There, you have already made the parameters clear for yourself. Options based on these would be
  • Avventura
  • Linea(barring efficiency in terms of mileage)
  • Vento/polo 1.5
In a million bucks let me know if you can find a better option based on your requirements mentioned.


ps: please do not compare these cars on other aspects else you will end up confused again


regards.
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Old 30th November 2014, 14:53   #999
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

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Originally Posted by Blue Bird View Post
There, you have already made the parameters clear for yourself. Options based on these would be
  • Avventura
  • Linea(barring efficiency in terms of mileage)
  • Vento/polo 1.5
In a million bucks let me know if you can find a better option based on your requirements mentioned.
Well, you are right, in a way. But, if I factor in my requirement for some extra seating space, then the Linea wins and if I factor in my requirement for some more power, then I have to either shift to the Linea TJet+ or shift to the Vento. The Vento is too low, a little more expensive and I haven't seen any improvement in VW service, while Fiat is improving.

If the Linea were only selling even 400-500 units a month consistently, it would have been an easier choice.
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Old 30th November 2014, 21:35   #1000
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Post Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

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Originally Posted by FINTAIL View Post
I need a car, that can be used day & night throughly on the highways. The driving involved will almost be termed as excessive, I know. The running- Approx 30+ k kilometers, annually.

Now, the chances are high that the initial 2 years will be extreme. But, after that the car will be sitting at home for 10 months a year, and be used properly for merely 2 months.

So, should it be Diesel or Petrol?

Preference should be given to excellent driving dynamics, good handling, and understated looks.So, there you go- Elegant. Quick. Quirky, if need be. Reliable. Somewhat charismatic.

The budget is to be capped within one million INR.



So, here we are. Complicated, yes. But note one thing, the car will be coming in October '15. So, according to that....
According to me you should pick up a second hand diesel for two years and sell it off after that, by then you will have better offers in the car market so you can think about the next car then.

So based on your requirements I suggest a used
  • Jetta/Vento
  • Lancer
  • Suzuki GV (already suggested and i think its very practical)
  • Linea (rear space is not very good)
  • corolla/octavia/cruze(please take a TD)
Quote:
Originally Posted by architect View Post
Well, you are right, in a way. But, if I factor in my requirement for some extra seating space, then the Linea wins and if I factor in my requirement for some more power, then I have to either shift to the Linea TJet+ or shift to the Vento. The Vento is too low, a little more expensive and I haven't seen any improvement in VW service, while Fiat is improving.

If the Linea were only selling even 400-500 units a month consistently, it would have been an easier choice.
You should read your signature before you factor in more requirements (on the lighter side )

The Linea is not selling because the facelift was a disaster and the Indian community barring the petrol heads are yet to consider the pleasure of driving as top most priority and also the other cars outshine the Linea in all other factors.

The vento won't be suitable for the kind of roads on which you will be driving plus both the cars have started showing there age so the sales figures wont rise.

Remap the Avventura and barring the extra space requirement, you will get everything you want. That's how I have zoomed down to the option of picking up the Avventura (TD is pending).
Also TD the Duster/Terrano if within your budget (factoring in your space requirement )

regards.
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Old 30th November 2014, 22:25   #1001
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post

Ecosport is another good option, though not as bad road abuse friendly as the Duster. Interiors feel premium, handling is fun, Engine refined, features list is fat, ground clearance is good enough, is cheaper to buy compared to Duster but lacks AWD variant, engine though refined and based on the tried and tested 1.4 TDCI that been around since decade offers just about decent performance(nothing like 110ps Duster), Ride is nowhere as good as Duster and space is at premium.
IMHO, the Ecosport runs on a new-generation 1.5 diesel engine. It's the Classic and Figo that run on the 1.4 TDCI. The 1.5 engine has better mid-range and is more refined as well as more fuel-efficient, but has turbo-lag in city driving, which the old one does not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by architect View Post
I would prefer a mechanically durable and safe vehicle, rather than a stylish but delicate one. At some point, I realised that by paying nearly 3 lakhs over the Punto 90 HP (8.7L OTR vs 11.xxL OTR), I am only getting 15 mm more GC, a little more rear seat space and two more air-bags. I really need a detailed TD to be convinced.
I think you are mistaken. I've recently taken a look at an Ecosport when my Figo was getting serviced, and I was mighty impressed with the sheet metal. The doors close with a thud (compared to Maruti-like Duster doors). The door of the boot and the bonnet felt like a 100 kilos each, and the bonnet was a lot, lot heavier than my Figo's and Fiesta's (now Classic). Therefore calling it a 'delicate' vehicle does not seem to be correct.

On the other hand, if you're referring to light off-roading in bits and pieces, then I agree the Duster is better suited.

If price is a concern, then I urge you to try the new Fiesta. Others have already mentioned its virtues. But I agree that it will not command a good resale, just like Fiats. So make your choice, go for an exciting car with poor resale, or a so-so car with good resale.
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Old 30th November 2014, 22:38   #1002
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Bird View Post
According to me you should pick up a second hand diesel for two years and sell it off after that, by then you will have better offers in the car market so you can think about the next car then.

So based on your requirements I suggest a used
  • Jetta/Vento
  • Lancer
  • Suzuki GV (already suggested and i think its very practical)
  • Linea (rear space is not very good)
  • corolla/octavia/cruze(please take a TD)
And, after a bit of consideration, the list is as follows.

A] Discounted Fluence.

B]The Linea 1.3 MJD/ Punto 90HP in Exotica Red. (A car that I always loved!)

C] The Etios D-4D. This one is good enough, a bit old school. Meets my requirement more perfectly than other cars, BUT, can be a laggard on the highway, its primary environment, for the first few years.

D] Vento/Rapid DSG. Hopefully, discounts on Rapid will be in full flow, come 2015. Long term reliability is suspect.

E] The Ciaz is now last. After the initial launch euphoria, the car is a goner. Nothing special really. I'd rather take a more potent Linea.

The list is rather complex. The Linea leads at times, the Fluence comes in, and then, considering that the car will be in storage for a while, the Etios is back. With her smiling face. Damn.

Last edited by FINTAIL : 30th November 2014 at 22:40.
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Old 1st December 2014, 12:53   #1003
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

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Originally Posted by vnabhi View Post
IMHO, the Ecosport runs on a new-generation 1.5 diesel engine. It's the Classic and Figo that run on the 1.4 TDCI. The 1.5 engine has better mid-range and is more refined as well as more fuel-efficient, but has turbo-lag in city driving, which the old one does not.
Thanks, i am aware of this difference. Hope you know this 1.5 engine is a modified version of the same old 1.4 TDCI engine. This engine is not related to 1.6 TDCI motor.
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Old 1st December 2014, 13:00   #1004
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Default Re: Which Diesel car for ~10 Lakh? Vento vs Verna vs Rapid vs Fiesta vs Linea vs Othe

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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Thanks, i am aware of this difference. Hope you know this 1.5 engine is a modified version of the same old 1.4 TDCI engine. This engine is not related to 1.6 TDCI motor.
Nope, I thought it was a scaled down version of the 1.6 TDCI that was placed in the Global Fiesta of 2010. I wonder how they could increase the displacement of the 1.4 upwards to 1.5?
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Old 1st December 2014, 20:40   #1005
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Originally Posted by vnabhi View Post
Nope, I thought it was a scaled down version of the 1.6 TDCI that was placed in the Global Fiesta of 2010. I wonder how they could increase the displacement of the 1.4 upwards to 1.5?
I think anshuman is spot on. 1.5 tdci unit is a SOHC with 8 valves, which is similar to earlier 1.4 engine.

1.6 tdci is a different beast with 16 valves and is a DOHC unit.
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