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Old 3rd January 2014, 21:21   #61
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Default Re: Comfortable Entry Level Sedan - Etios / Verito / Sail / Manza / Sunny?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
So that is it. Do not even look at the others. none of them are no nonsense. Only the Toyota,Honda or Nissan in your list is the niggle free fill it shut it experience.

About the Etios. Just like most entry level Toyotas, its a very boring car. Its boredom personified. But it will go on and on. Every 10,000kms you will call up Toyota and they will pick it up, and then return it.
You got it so right! Agree 100% with the above. One really cannot go wrong with either of the 3 Japanese brands: Toyota, Honda or Nissan. All solid performers.

You are correct, a Toyota is rock solid, be it petrol or diesel D-4D, but one may perceive it as having 'boring' interiors.

Honda has a peppy engine and the i-vetc is a proven sweet & time tested engine across the world. The interiors of Honda are nice.

Nissan has good interiors too, somewhere in between a Toyota & a Honda, I think. The Nissan engine is also proven, may it be petrol or diesel. If it Nissan diesel then of course the Renault diesel engine that it has, is also proven & tested in the European market.

I have driven cars of the above 3 brands and owned a Toyota & a Honda. They are really fill it, shut it, forget it types.
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Old 3rd January 2014, 22:36   #62
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Default Re: Comfortable Entry Level Sedan - Etios / Verito / Sail / Manza / Sunny?

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
I want to get a feedback for these models. Could NOT find a comparo for the entry level (diesel) sedans and a winner from that.

Contestants:

Toyota Etios
Mahindra Verito
Nissan Sunny
Chevy Sail
Honda Amaze
Tata Manza

My dad may go for a comfortable rear seat sedan soon and hence trying to shortlist one out of these.

The plan is to upgrade to a entry level sedan from the Wagon R. While none of these shortlisted cars will give the high seating, we want to have a very comfortable seating for the rear seat.
I think you are interested in Diesel sedans?

As you have shortlisted, its better to go for the full sized sedans compared to the compact sedans such as Dzire & Amaze.

Most of the below are sales duds except Etios to an extent. I think the lower and the upper segment to this has eaten up this space badly.

Mahindra Verito
+ Engine
- Old
- Not so attractive

Nissan Sunny
+ Spacious and comfortable rear seat, nice engine
- After sales service and spares availability
- Looks wicked, Don't know what is Nissan's future plan for this.

Chevy Sail
!!

Honda Amaze
* Heard from a friend of mine that there were many complaints on the diesel engine and Honda was working on a design change. Not so sure of this info though.
* yet to test drive one, so not much idea. Looks smallish to me.

Tata Manza -
+ New age Ambassador in back seat comfort.
+ Good engine
- Old, not so attractive exteriors.
- Tata ASS - depends on your relationship with the dealership.
- New versions might be coming shortly.

Fiesta -
I have owned a Fiesta and its a great car to drive but not to be driven around as the back seat angle is more upright compared to Sunny/Manza. It has become old too.

Etios -
I have used my relatives Etios new version for sometime and my feeling was that there was not much to complain other than the decades old styling inside out and some evident cost cutting here and there but that wouldn't make any problem in your case as its the back seat comfort that you are interested in. The seats are higher than a swift dzire. You can consider visiting Koyas to get your interiors beefed up
While the test drive vehicle was very loud and looked like a bare metal and no insulation what so ever, the new version was not that audible.
It sure is a no non-sense car and comes with Toyota's reliability. I am writing this after reading another Skoda horror story and looks like we should consider Manufacturer/Dealer before even considering the car itself!

I believe you will have this new car for more years to come so better go in for a newer model of the lot.

On a side note, a perfect upgrade from a Wagon-R would be the Ertiga. We have many including me who have upgraded from Wagon-R to Ertiga as it made perfect sense.
In your case, you can consider removing the 3rd row seat if not needed and use it as a very spacious car. The rear seat is spacious and comfortable on long journeys too.

Ertiga is smaller than Fiesta in length if am not wrong. Its taller and comparable to Wagon-R in seating, ingress. Suspension is good for both slow and high speed drives. Its an able cruiser on highways. Maruti has a good reputation of being customer friendly. It has come a long way from being a "CHEAPER" to maintain car manufacturer though. Show this car to your parents at least once.

With the current condition of roads, do not ignore crossovers/mini suv's. Just get an idea by test-driving all cars along with your parents and take the call.

Last edited by ganesc : 3rd January 2014 at 22:46.
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Old 3rd January 2014, 22:45   #63
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Default Re: Comfortable Entry Level Sedan - Etios / Verito / Sail / Manza / Sunny?

The Tata Manza is a good buy despite having all the negatives of being a Tata - Premature ageing, reliability(debatable), ASS, Quality etc. it has a great back seat, boot space is huge, has got a proven engine & hence is good on both performance as well as FE, has features too & is VFM IMO.
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Old 4th January 2014, 19:25   #64
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Default Re: Comfortable Entry Level Sedan - Etios / Verito / Sail / Manza / Sunny?

Mods, could we add a poll to this thread with the listed contenders please?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
...I would also suggest you to add a poll to this thread....
That's a good idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
...Are you really willing to buy the Verito? The car looks seriously dated and ugly now and I cannot really see any good reason to opt for it over the others. How many private buyers really opt for it?...
Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
...The Verito, I would say is an understated car that has all capabilities to be a decent family car but the Taxi image has has got lower families in its bag. Something has to be done by Renault to shed that Taxi image...
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarthikK View Post
...If budget is an issue, then the Etios V.D makes a strong case for itself, but it will obviously come with lesser gizmos than the Sunny, lesser backseat space and lesser image perception in society, considering it is a popular fleet vehicle with taxis. The latter can be ignored since you mentioned you are not bothered about it....
In my town, all the taxis are Innovas / Sumos / Indicas. We rarely find an Etios taxi or a Verito taxi. Hence I mentioned that brand value is NOT an issue at all. To be honest, none of the cars listed looks good to me; Sail is slightly better. All of them are quirky either in interiors or exteriors or both. Having said this, I have never taken a good look at the Verito. It appealed to me a bit after the facelift - atleast it now came to the levels of Etios / Amaze / Sail to be considered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mints21 View Post
....I feel that Nissan Sunny would be priced close to Maruti SX4. Since, the Sx4 car is all set to be phased out, you can still be assured of the availability of spares and service...
SX4 D is good from a space perspective, drives neutral & is comfortable. But for that kind of interiors, the money asked is too much. Add the high bills associated with Maruti now a days - simply NOT worth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
...The only negative about the Manza is that its made by Tata with corresponding niggles to boot...
I do NOT degrade TATA to that extent, especially with respect to Manza. Haven't heard of a lot of horror stories - yes, niggles are a part of it and have personally experienced it too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
Toyota Etios. Travelled in it enough that I am now willing to accept the not so nice interiors, external appearance and oddball placement of meters. The car has acres of space, very comfortable, the petrol is good to drive and peace of mind to own. Those cheap looking interiors actually hold up quite well too.
When I checked out the Etios, found the plastic grade to be at par with the previous gen Swift and hence was acceptable to me. This car makes up in some other areas for these negatives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdma View Post
....Cost of ownership - You will be all smiles with this car , there are multiple reviews on this forum where people have reported service costs of diesel as less as 3k...
I think that's one of the higher costs associated with Etios. In one of the posts, the bill mentioned is Rs. 1600/-. Add to it, the minimum bill I have had for my Swift's regular service is Rs. 3500/-

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
...Re-reading your opening post, I have a feeling your folks will be most comfortable in the Sunny. You say you have been in one yourself, so you would have an idea already. Take them for a test drive in the Sunny and let them decide...
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarthikK View Post
...It is also very easy/effortless to drive in the city and will happily do most of the urban duties you might expect it to do...
I also need to take the size of the car into account. While I need a comfy car for my parents for long distance hauls, this car will also act as my dad's daily drive. And he is a very careless driver and subjects the car to nicks and dents way too often. Bigger car means more dents and higher repair bills too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarthikK View Post
...The gizmo list is also quite long in the Sunny, while the Etios is relatively basic. This again is not a fair comparison since the Sunny is from a segment above, but just mentioning it...
My dad would be more than happy with an A/C & a power steering. He is not a gizmo guy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thoma View Post
...Are you sure you really need another diesel in the garage? Petrols are so very silent which add a lot to the elderly comfort factor...
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
...I would also like to recommend the petrol variant over the diesel, seeing the diminishing price differential.....
Dad's running is quite high. The Wagon R has seen 30000 kms in 2 years IIRC. 10,000 kms every year is a given with his cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thoma View Post
...Or else you have to go for the Hyundai diesels if NVH is of priority...
Hyundai's cost of ownership is NOT a comfortable factor for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sridhar K View Post
...Twice it was Etios, twice it was Fiesta and once a logan and once an innova. For the lot, did not like the ride quality of Etios one bit. Had again traveled from Bangalore airport to electronic city multiple times on different cars (logan, Manza, Etios)...
How was the NVH between Verito & Etios?

Quote:
Originally Posted by amtak View Post
...If you have a MASS near your house, opt for the Verito, if you have a Toyota, opt for the later. In the long run, Toyota will give you better resale.
For all the listed cars, the A$$ are in the range of 5-10 kms of each which is roughly 50 kms from home. So that does NOT matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drsingh View Post
...The most comfortable rear seats at entry level sedan price were the captain seats in the chevrolet enjoy...
Well, another option. Frankly, I do NOT rate GM very high. My experiences with respect to sales & my friend's service experience were NOT good in the first place. I think Evalia could be another option along with Enjoy. But my dad would prefer a sedan is what my feel is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Honestly, I can recommend only two cars: The Sunny & Ertiga...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganesc View Post
...Ertiga is smaller than Fiesta in length if am not wrong. Its taller and comparable to Wagon-R in seating, ingress. Suspension is good for both slow and high speed drives. Its an able cruiser on highways. Maruti has a good reputation of being customer friendly. It has come a long way from being a "CHEAPER" to maintain car manufacturer though. Show this car to your parents at least once...
I have TDed Ertiga as well. The car is good, but NOT very wide to accommodate 3 at the middle. Add to it, the service bills - when I pay 6-8K bills, I would rather want a C1 segment vehicle in my garage. Neverthless, could be given a shot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by headbanger View Post
...Ertiga being on the same platform as Swift having a comfortable middle row is a surprise to me!!!
Though it's on the same platform, the suspension tuning is different. For Ertiga & Dzire, the tuning is softer for a better & comfortable ride than the handling oriented, stiffer ride of the Swift.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
...From an ownership point of view, is it not safer to buy the Renault Scala over the Sunny?
I personally think Nissan has a better brand recall than Renault. Scala has nothing majorly to offer compared to Sunny at the premium. On top of it, my town does NOT have a Renault showroom. Plus, I am lethargic to Renault after their Duster fiasco (w.r.t consumer dealing).

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediKnight View Post
...The most comfortable car overall and perhaps the best economy sedan is the Verito...Lot of owners have complained about Mahindra taking a long time to source some replacement parts. Ball back in your court.
Have come across this point - a bit of concern for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Sunny -
Great everything. My brother owns a micra. Same lineage. A very good car. But a very bad brand. Parts often are tough to get. He had to get shockers fixed and they told him to wait 2 days. Imagine something rare goes kaput. It would have been the ideal sedan. But Nissan, is weird...
Considering my dad is not a very careful user, this is serious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
...About the Etios. Just like most entry level Toyotas, its a very boring car. Its boredom personified. But it will go on and on. Every 10,000kms you will call up Toyota and they will pick it up, and then return it.

And she is tough very tough.
I crashed into a pothole on a major NHAI "new highway", destroyed the alloy, destroyed the tire, and the damn thing did not even go out of alignment. On the Safari it would have meant alignment + probably some bushes or tie rods...
Something like this is what I prefer. He blasts the cars & abuse it. Brings in dents every fortnight and doesn't even realise it most of the times. The Wagon R @ 30,000 kms have gone in for a suspension overhaul! So something which can stand these kind of treatment is a priority. And if it's rattle free, an extra bonus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteeringStar View Post
According to your requirements, i guess ETIOS would be an apt choice. I have been driving it for the past 5 months (crossed 10K recently). Absolutely no issues so far. The 3K service was done with ZERO cost and the 10K service for Rs1600/-...
The primary reason I overlook the interiors of Etios!

Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
...Swift D-Zire for absolute ease of maintenance and resale (new version with bluetooth, cruise control, DRLs etc coming in sometime around March)...
2.5 box - NOT a complete package with respect to anything. More of a jack of all trades for which we already have cars at home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
...Sail Why???...
Even I do NOT know. Had to be fair (in comparison) and more than that, my brother was mighty impressed when he went to take a look at it. I would still rate it better (due to rear & boot space) than Dzire if you already have a car in the family.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganesc View Post
...Most of the below are sales duds except Etios to an extent. I think the lower and the upper segment to this has eaten up this space badly...
To be honest, nothing in the list except Amaze are sellers! All of them are doing below industry average. Sunny could be taken up as an exception as it's neither here (compact sedan) nor there (C1 sedans - City, SX4, Vento, Rapid etc).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganesc View Post
...With the current condition of roads, do not ignore crossovers/mini suv's. Just get an idea by test-driving all cars along with your parents and take the call.
I would love to, but even the cheapest version of Duster is close to 10L OTR in Kerala. That's too much of money at the moment. Ecosport - as I mentioned, a Swift can do 80% of what it can - so does NOT make any sense as a second / third car in the family.

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 4th January 2014 at 19:47.
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Old 4th January 2014, 20:08   #65
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Default Re: Comfortable Entry Level Sedan - Etios / Verito / Sail / Manza / Sunny?

In my opinion:

Toyota Etios:
It is a good car with a very good engine. Moreover, it belongs to Toyota and who doesn't know the reliability of Toyota. But by looks: It's a big down. I, somehow, don't like the granny look of the car.

Mahindra Verito
I don't find anything good about this car among the competition. A friend of mine is having it and was complaining about the high maintenance cost.

Nissan Sunny
Little pricey. It is the most expensive among the lot. It too big to be a self driven car. It should be chauffeur drive. Good car of you have deeper pocket to buy this.

Chevy Sail
Good and plain vanilla car. Fits the pocket and matches the price of its competition. Should be considered.

Honda Amaze
Amazing car. Nice power, price, space etc. I like everything about this car. I strongly recommend this car. Shh.. I am own one (diesel).

Tata Manza
A big no. No Tata. Tata to Tata.
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Old 4th January 2014, 20:27   #66
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Default Re: Comfortable Entry Level Sedan - Etios / Verito / Sail / Manza / Sunny?

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Though it's on the same platform, the suspension tuning is different. For Ertiga & Dzire, the tuning is softer for a better & comfortable ride than the handling oriented, stiffer ride of the Swift.
Thats precisely what I stated. Even though the suspension tuning of Ritz and Dzire is softer as compared to an erstwhile Zen, the rear bench experience is certainly not better. If Ertiga does make it your shortlisted cars, I will strongly recommend to have an extended TD of the car while being on middle and rear seat to gauge the comfort. If your parents can accompany you on the TD, nothing beats it- you will get the perfect feedback!!!
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Old 4th January 2014, 21:53   #67
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Default Re: Comfortable Entry Level Sedan - Etios / Verito / Sail / Manza / Sunny?

I was under the dilemma of finding a WOW diesel car which I just love to drive & will meet my family requirements as well.
After toying with the idea of Compact SUV & full sized sedans, I decided to go in for a compact sedan because of their easy drive-ability in city traffic as well as being comfortable for highway trips.

1. Sunny
Did not like the looks of this car.
2. Sail/Verito
Did not feel like going for an unpopular model.
3. Manza
My friends owns a manza, & boy its a good car. But his 2 year old car has already given him starting troubles & his power windows switch don't work.
4. Etios
Toyota is a Toyota, reliable & awesome. But TD it, & am sure if you are an enthusiast driver, you will not like the sluggish engine.
5. Amaze
Its a Honda. I just love Honda brand. Had gone to Honda showroom with the checkbook to make the booking. I TDed it, loved the drievability, and it is so much spacious/awesome boot space. I mean everything was awesome EXCEPT the NVH levels. I was so keen on buying this car that had decided to overlook the NVH issues. But boy, a few more TD of Amaze made me realise that long drives with such high noise levels will be painful.
6. DZire
Just that its a maruti & so very common, it was never on my list.
But an uncle once visited my house & asked me to park his new swift & I really liked it new interiors. So, I went to TD the DZire.
Rear seat space was just average. Basically that of a large hatchback & so was the boot space. But is was practically sufficient & I really liked the punchy MJD. The turbo lag is not painful, drive-ability is poor just below 1.5K RPM, but above it the engine simply wants to fly off.
I myself could not believe that I would be spending 8 lakhs on a Maruti, but it seemed a logical compromise(because of rear space & boot) & I am loving it now.
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Old 4th January 2014, 22:14   #68
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I had test driven Etios (P), Sunny (Auto) and Ertiga (D) while scouting for my new car. I believe for your requirement the Sunny and Ertiga would be ideal.

I was not very impressed with Etios. Don't know if it was an issue with the test drive car, but the vibrations seemed too high for a petrol. The whole car shook like a diesel when I fired it up. It also seemed too built to cost for the segment.

But was seriously impressed with the Ertiga and Sunny.

All the best for your hunt.
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Old 5th January 2014, 21:35   #69
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Default Re: Comfortable Entry Level Sedan - Etios / Verito / Sail / Manza / Sunny?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ank.nsit View Post
6. DZire
Just that its a maruti & so very common, it was never on my list.
But an uncle once visited my house & asked me to park his new swift & I really liked it new interiors. So, I went to TD the DZire.
Rear seat space was just average. Basically that of a large hatchback & so was the boot space. But is was practically sufficient & I really liked the punchy MJD. The turbo lag is not painful, drive-ability is poor just below 1.5K RPM, but above it the engine simply wants to fly off.
I myself could not believe that I would be spending 8 lakhs on a Maruti, but it seemed a logical compromise(because of rear space & boot) & I am loving it now.
I totally agree with you. I too never imagined spending 8 lacs for a maruti. But once I test drove the new Dzire (diesel), I just fell in love with it. The boot is not huge, but it does its job for nuclear family size. Moreover, the mileage that the car offers is amazing, not to mention its refinement.
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Old 6th January 2014, 10:20   #70
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Default Re: Comfortable Entry Level Sedan - Etios / Verito / Sail / Manza / Sunny?

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
How was the NVH between Verito & Etios?
Verito is much better in terms of NVH. The other issue with Etios I forgot to mention about the Etios was quality of the seats. I know a few seat cover fitters personally and they all mentioned that the quality of seats in Etios was the pathetic they have ever seen.

However, infer that Toyota has made some improvements in the above areas off late but I haven't been on a latest Etios to comment.

For abuse friendliness, Etios and Verito may be the only option. Etios triumphs Verito on lower TCO, handling, power, steering while Verito scores on lower up front cost, refinement, ride quality, better build (Etios is a tin can in that respect but coming from a Wagon R, you may not have an issue).
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Old 6th January 2014, 12:24   #71
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Default Re: Comfortable Entry Level Sedan - Etios / Verito / Sail / Manza / Sunny?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sridhar K View Post
...However, infer that Toyota has made some improvements in the above areas off late but I haven't been on a latest Etios to comment...
So the ones you are referring to, are the pre-facelift ones? AFAIK, changes were made to seats, engine mounts etc in the facelift. I remember GTO mentioning that the new seats were one of the BEST in segment or so and are extremely comfortable.
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Old 6th January 2014, 13:01   #72
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Yes. Mine was about the pre face lift ones.
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Old 7th January 2014, 10:58   #73
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Default Re: Comfortable Entry Level Sedan - Etios / Verito / Sail / Manza / Sunny?

Contestants:

Toyota Etios
Mahindra Verito
Nissan Sunny
Chevy Sail
Honda Amaze
Tata Manza

Criteria:

Absolutely NO problems with the badge value
Sedan + Good boot space
Spacious & Comfortable rear seat.
Silent cabin
(Comparative) Driver oriented nature.
Cost of ownership.
NO pre-owned cars!


I think if your budget permits then you should re-consider the Fiesta Classic and check out the new Linea classic too. Fiesta Classic although has the smallest cabin among these but is sufficient for 4 adults. It's build quality is on par with the other cars you have short listed. I would strike out Etios, Verito, Amaze and Sail because they do not fulfill your criteria for the 'driver oriented nature' of the car and offering a 'silent cabin'. Out of these amaze looks to be a good cruiser on the highways with decent dynamics but the cabin is very noisy at higher rpms. With Amaze you also compromise with the interiors and the boot space. Manza meets most of your requirements and is an excellent highway cruiser with a wonderful rear seat but a face-lift is on the cards this year. This gives you an opportunity to re-consider the classics from Ford and FIAT. A remapped Classic 1.4 tdci works wonders in city and as well as on the highways . Can expect better performance from a remapped 1.3 multi-jet . If you still do not feel like re-considering these then go for either Etios or the Amaze.
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Old 7th January 2014, 14:23   #74
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Default Re: Comfortable Entry Level Sedan - Etios / Verito / Sail / Manza / Sunny?

I have upgraded from Wagon R to Logan and the best thing i liked is the walkin style in both the vehicles. I had driven Wagon R for 4 years and Logan for 5 years with 1 L + on the Odo. I have also used / driven all the other vehicles youhave shortlisted and would strongy recommend you to go for the new look Verito. Mahindra Service is way better than many of the other renowned brands.
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Old 8th January 2014, 17:07   #75
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Default Re: Comfortable Entry Level Sedan - Etios / Verito / Sail / Manza / Sunny?

If you could live with the interiors close eyes and go for Verito. Rock solid engineering and fantastic mileage with peace of mind. A fantastic mile muncher too.
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