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View Poll Results: Which diesel automatic sedan?
Skoda Rapid 109 38.65%
Hyundai Verna 29 10.28%
Volkswagen Vento 144 51.06%
Voters: 282. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 18th October 2014, 11:05   #31
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Default Re: Diesel Automatic Showdown: Skoda Rapid vs Hyundai Verna vs VW Vento

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
0-100 is not the point of concern here. I have driven the Verna CRDI AT, Diesel's narrow powerband mated to this outdated 4 speed gearbox is nowhere in comparison any of the modern gearboxes. The Autobox is slow, shiftlogic is not as smart, at times you have to make it upshift/downshift by changing Accelerator input. Then there are not enough ratios for every speed, tall 4 gears all widely spaced to make up for lack of more gears make for a frustrating driving experience(for anyone used to modern ATs). Plus the torque convertor is not as efficient as DSG, saps considerably higher amount of fuel.
I totally agree with you. where do we get the chance to do 0-100 on indian roads be it highway or city. With the new engines and transmissions being introduced in the market (national and international), the auto manufacturing companies need to adapt (Hyundai, maruti, tata please read).

VW and Skoda are of sister concerns hence the technology will be shared among each other with refinements done individually.

My order of preference would be VW and then Skoda.
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Old 19th October 2014, 11:41   #32
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Default Re: Diesel Automatic Showdown: Skoda Rapid vs Hyundai Verna vs VW Vento

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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
0-100 is not the point of concern here. I have driven the Verna CRDI AT, Diesel's narrow powerband mated to this outdated 4 speed gearbox is nowhere in comparison any of the modern gearboxes. The Autobox is slow, shiftlogic is not as smart, at times you have to make it upshift/downshift by changing Accelerator input. Then there are not enough ratios for every speed, tall 4 gears all widely spaced to make up for lack of more gears make for a frustrating driving experience(for anyone used to modern ATs). Plus the torque convertor is not as efficient as DSG, saps considerably higher amount of fuel.
That is understood, the 4 speed torque converter AT is no match for a 7 speed DQ200 which is much much more modern. If only the DQ250 was offered in these TDI cars in India.

Any reason why VW is not providing the 7 speed DSG in Russia, Malaysia, China and Middle East? Polo Sedans come with the 6 speed tiptronic in these more matured markets.

I could find 7 speed DSG offerings in Polo 1.2 TSI in Singapore and in Polo 1.2 and 1.4 in Mexico. Didn't find it in any TDI cars. That is my major concern.

Last edited by Sankar : 19th October 2014 at 11:43.
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Old 19th October 2014, 20:23   #33
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Default Re: Diesel Automatic Showdown: Skoda Rapid vs Hyundai Verna vs VW Vento

Vento and Rapid wins hands down if somebody else would own and maintain the car and I just need to drive it

Given the risk around DQ200 and the track record of VW/Skoda and their unwillingness to initiate recalls in India, I'm skeptical about taking a chance with either Vento or Rapid since I would keep the car for at least 5-6 years or even more if possible and these cars don't yet inspire such a trust. Even if they find an issue, the max they would do is to correct it in future batches and let the old ones fail eventually.

Verna on the other hand might not be as responsive and the driving dynamics might also be poor, but Hyundai is better in the reliability department than the Germans. I might have to forget spirited driving if I decide to choose a Verna but it might be much more trouble-free.

That said, if I'm willing to compromise anyway, I might even look at the Tata Zest AMT. It is nowhere close to these vehicles in comparison, is a segment lower and comes with a pseudo-AT instead of a real AT. However, it is still an option I would consider if I don't really need a full size boot. It still gives my left foot the required rest, runs on diesel and costs probably 60-70% of what these other diesel ATs cost! I wish Tata had given an XTA option!

Last edited by zenren : 19th October 2014 at 20:26.
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Old 19th October 2014, 20:49   #34
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Default Re: Diesel Automatic Showdown: Skoda Rapid vs Hyundai Verna vs VW Vento

What is Verna doing here? 4-speed versus 7-speed? Verna may have looks but sorry, it just doesn't belong in this group. BTW, 4-speed box? What was Hyundai thinking?

Between the two, I like Rapid's looks. Vento looks too bland to me.
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Old 19th October 2014, 21:19   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
What is Verna doing here? 4-speed versus 7-speed? Verna may have looks but sorry, it just doesn't belong in this group. BTW, 4-speed box? What was Hyundai thinking?



Between the two, I like Rapid's looks. Vento looks too bland to me.
That 4 speed box was the only option available till last month. Came as a blessing in disguise to many who couldn't stretch their budget till the Cruze AT.

And now all of a sudden we have started criticising them for offering it. I can understand it's a mistake to launch this box when they launch the next generation model, because the market has just got a move on, but within a month? That too, before we come to know if the mating of DQ200 with the 1.5 diesel proves to be reliable?
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Old 19th October 2014, 21:26   #36
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Default Re: Diesel Automatic Showdown: Skoda Rapid vs Hyundai Verna vs VW Vento

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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
What is Verna doing here? 4-speed versus 7-speed? Verna may have looks but sorry, it just doesn't belong in this group. BTW, 4-speed box? What was Hyundai thinking?
If we just go by Diesel + Automatic combination, there are only 4 models on this side of 15 lakhs - these 3 and Tata Zest AMT. So there is no point in discarding something due to the 4-speed versus 7-speed or even being an AMT instead of true AT. Beggars can't be choosers

In the 15L-25L range, their bigger brothers Elantra, Jetta, Octavia and Audi A3 face more competition from others like Cruze, Fortuner, Endeavour and Rexton.

Last edited by zenren : 19th October 2014 at 21:28.
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Old 19th October 2014, 21:50   #37
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Default Re: Diesel Automatic Showdown: Skoda Rapid vs Hyundai Verna vs VW Vento

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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
What is Verna doing here? 4-speed versus 7-speed? Verna may have looks but sorry, it just doesn't belong in this group. BTW, 4-speed box? What was Hyundai thinking?
We all here are curious why manufacturers are not giving Diesel + AT combo in the regularly moving cars and now when a manufacturer has provided it we are ranting against it. The DQ2000 could be miles ahead but doesn't have that reliability quotient so customers would stick to Hyundai even though it is old school.

I love the Vento DSG but I am worried of having to spend more time in the ASC rather than on roads enjoying it.

If I can share, I had gone to Warangal with another BHPian on his Jetta and he was sticking to 'D' mode and not playing with the gear shifter (paddle shifting or the 'S' mode). I asked him why was he sticking to the D mode and not exploring the DSG. His answer made me smile - I am worried there would be issues with the gearbox if I fiddle with it. That's why keeping it is safer side.

I am happy that Hyundai has at least offered an AT with Diesel engine be it good or bad. Why can't other manufacturers see this and give it in their respective cars so that we customers do get some choice and enjoy the combo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
That 4 speed box was the only option available till last month.

And now all of a sudden we have started criticising them for offering it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenren View Post
If we just go by Diesel + Automatic combination, there are only 4 models on this side of 15 lakhs.

Beggars can't be choosers
+1 to both of you.

Anurag.
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Old 20th October 2014, 10:37   #38
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Default Re: Diesel Automatic Showdown: Skoda Rapid vs Hyundai Verna vs VW Vento

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
I love the Vento DSG but I am worried of having to spend more time in the ASC rather than on roads enjoying it.
VW should have or should be rolling out an extended warranty pretty soon, any customer should get their hands on that for almost total peace of mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
If I can share, I had gone to Warangal with another BHPian on his Jetta and he was sticking to 'D' mode and not playing with the gear shifter (paddle shifting or the 'S' mode). I asked him why was he sticking to the D mode and not exploring the DSG. His answer made me smile - I am worried there would be issues with the gearbox if I fiddle with it. That's why keeping it is safer side.
Said BHP-ian is just being silly. He should know that nothing will happen to his beloved Blue Bolt if he plays with the paddle shifters and he should just let 'er rip In any case, an Extended Warranty will take care of all his worries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
I am happy that Hyundai has at least offered an AT with Diesel engine be it good or bad. Why can't other manufacturers see this and give it in their respective cars so that we customers do get some choice and enjoy the combo.
I agree completely. For the longest time, only this and the Scorpio were available as Diesel AT. It's only now that it appears pretty pedestrian as an option, but I'm sure these launches will spur Hyundai into action and that 4 speed AT is hopefully a thing of the past, and that can only be good for all of us!
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Old 20th October 2014, 10:51   #39
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Default Re: Diesel Automatic Showdown: Skoda Rapid vs Hyundai Verna vs VW Vento

Voted for the Rapid. Why?

1. The Black Edition looks much better than the soul-less Vento.
2. Hate the new alloy wheel design on the Vento. I loved the design on the earlier version of the Vento
3. Projector Lamps

As luck should have it, I was out shopping this weekend and happened to see a Black Edition Rapid Automatic. The owner had swapped the stock alloys with some fabulous Lenso's. That combined with the blacked out headlight console and front grill, gave the Rapid such a mean look. Loved it!
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Old 20th October 2014, 11:45   #40
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Default Re: Diesel Automatic Showdown: Skoda Rapid vs Hyundai Verna vs VW Vento

Really confused between the Vento and the Rapid as they are essentially the same car with different characteristics. Sadly the Verna is out of the equation. Like many others, I liked the cleaner looks of the Vento. However the Rapid seems to have better dynamics and ride. Have to TD myself personally to check this out (Rapid DSG isn't available in my city for TD yet). Also, the Rapid has the Cruise control. The leatherette seats of the Vento aren't a big deal, as a far better one could be fitted after market. Hence, I vote for the Rapid. I could change my decision if i don't find a difference in driving dynamics between the Vento and the Rapid. After all my heart still beats for the Vento.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocRock View Post
Yes the Rapid's got cruise control and projectors, however these can be added to the Vento as well.
DocRock, How is that possible? Projectors, Maybe. But I am sure Cruise Control cannot be added to Vento.
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Old 20th October 2014, 11:47   #41
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Default Re: Diesel Automatic Showdown: Skoda Rapid vs Hyundai Verna vs VW Vento

Crazy Driver, Zenren and Anurag, I am not criticising Hyundai AFTER comparing it with 7-speed DSGs. I am criticising because Scorpio AT was also launched nearly around same time as Verna AT. But one came with 6-speed and the other with 4-speed. When an Indian company can launch a 6-speed, what stopped this global car maker from doing same? 4-speed was stone-age even at that time. And even now Hyundai is continuing with a 4-speed and God knows till when they will. I am not a fan of DSG either because of reliability issues but a 6-speed torque converter AT, like in Scorpio, would have sent more buyers to Hyundai showrooms.
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Old 22nd October 2014, 11:01   #42
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Default Re: Diesel Automatic Showdown: Skoda Rapid vs Hyundai Verna vs VW Vento

Quote:
Originally Posted by neethi_raj View Post
Really confused between the Vento and the Rapid as they are essentially the same car with different characteristics. Sadly the Verna is out of the equation. Like many others, I liked the cleaner looks of the Vento. However the Rapid seems to have better dynamics and ride. Have to TD myself personally to check this out (Rapid DSG isn't available in my city for TD yet). Also, the Rapid has the Cruise control. The leatherette seats of the Vento aren't a big deal, as a far better one could be fitted after market. Hence, I vote for the Rapid. I could change my decision if i don't find a difference in driving dynamics between the Vento and the Rapid. After all my heart still beats for the Vento.


DocRock, How is that possible? Projectors, Maybe. But I am sure Cruise Control cannot be added to Vento.
Hi Neethi,

Having driven them both, here are my opinions on them

1) The Rapid DSG feels more upmarket and premium than the Vento DSG
2) 1) Rapid DSG feels more responsive and better planted on the road than the Vento DSG
3) Rapid DSG fabric seats are better bolstered and Upholstered than the Vento. You may just decide that you don't want to mess with them in any way.

The not-so-significant things:

2) Flat bottomed steering wheel of Vento DSG is an absolute joy to use

3) Steering mounted audio controls of Rapid DSG are better than Vento DSG

4) Gear shift knob of Rapid DSG is better than that of Vento DSG

To answer your questions:

The cruise control unit is a cheap and easy install. It is readily available in India and is also very easily sourced from most parts of the civilized world. Its an easy and short fix. Total cost should be around Rs.6000, certainly less than Rs 10,000

The Projector headlights on the other hand are expensive and very easy to botch during installation. I've seen decent ones start at INR 60,000



I would chose the Rapid diesel DSG if I were buying a diesel. I'd buy the Vento 1.2 TSI if I were buying a petrol, but I'd still by the Rapid if it were available with a competent Petrol automatic.
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Old 22nd October 2014, 11:29   #43
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Default Re: Diesel Automatic Showdown: Skoda Rapid vs Hyundai Verna vs VW Vento

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Originally Posted by neethi_raj View Post
But I am sure Cruise Control cannot be added to Vento.
The facelifted Vento gets a new BCM which would support the cruise control addon which is merely a new stalk for the left side. Open the steering airbag, remove the old stalk, replace the new stalk, enable the cruise control setting on VCDS.

This could not be done on the earlier Vento since they had the old BCM (I'm betting it was the same one on the Polo).

Easiest way to check this is to connect the VCDS cable on the vehicle and check the VAG product code. If it matches with the one on the new Rapid, that'd be all. Else, take a bend below the steering, shine a torch on the BCM, and note down the code.

For reference:


Source: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/diy-do...ento-polo.html
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Old 22nd October 2014, 11:37   #44
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Default Re: Diesel Automatic Showdown: Skoda Rapid vs Hyundai Verna vs VW Vento

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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
When an Indian company can launch a 6-speed, what stopped this global car maker from doing same? 4-speed was stone-age even at that time.
When an Indian company launched a 6 speed in their 10L SUV, Toyota launched a 4 speed in their 25L SUV. Lack of competition is the problem here.

Hyundai will learn their lesson now. And I dont think the 4 speed will stick for long if the DSG competition succeeds in this price range in India. Their 7 speed dual clutch gearbox called 7DCT has already been showcased at the Paris Motor Show.
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Old 22nd October 2014, 11:41   #45
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Default Re: Diesel Automatic Showdown: Skoda Rapid vs Hyundai Verna vs VW Vento

Hyundai must keenly look at this thread.
My wishlist for the new Verna:
  • Stiffer suspension. Hynudai has done a fabulous job with the Grand i10 and elite i20. They now must concentrate on the Verna
  • Reduce Turbolag. Yes Hyundai, the elite i20 is a good job, verna next please.
  • 6 speed diesel AT. Not a difficult task at all. They have the engine and transmission ready. They just need to mate it.
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