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Old 10th August 2017, 21:35   #1
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Default Pre-owned BMW 320d, pre-owned Skoda Octavia 2.0 TDI, or brand new Octavia 1.8 TSI DSG?

Hi,

I have started contemplating to buy a new car. This is after about 8 years of ownership of a Fiat Linea. The second car is not a need but just a want. The only reason that I want to get another car is to get an upgrade in terms of driving pleasure and performance.

The cars which I am considering are:

1. New Octavia 1.8 TSI DSG
2. Used BMW 320 D
3. Used Octavia 2.0 TDI DSG

The most important factor however which will enable me to buy the next car is the total cost of ownership. The total ownership cost of a car is not just the original on road price but many other elements which come over the period of ownership. I have worked some calculations and I needed some validation from members on the factor of costs emanating from parts failing and needing replacement as that is a grey area. I will need to keep that much money aside if I decide to buy a used car.

Since this will be second car for me and I considered the additional expense I will incur. The total annual amounts for owning the three cars in question here range from 5.7 lacs for the New Octavia to 3.7 lacs for the Used Octavia. The table below has the details on how the amounts are computed. I am also attaching the excel sheet with the working. What I have done is calculated the purchase value taking into account the interest compounded over the period of time I will keep the car + Insurance + Maintenance (Regular Servicing) + cost for replacing parts which will fail over time + Incremental fuel bill as compared to my current ride Ė Resale value.

I am not sure if I can afford the cars. There is no formula to decide on how much should one spend on a car. I donít agree that it can be as much as oneís annual income or a percentage of it. It all depends on the total wealth one has, earning potential for the remainder of the career which will create enough savings for taking care of retirement and other long term goals which usually people have such a buying a house, education for children, corpus for medical expenses at a later age, etc.. My head tells me that a second car is a frivolous expense and not a need and hence I shouldnít spend a single penny on it. The heart is itching for an upgrade and in order to convince my head I am telling my head that I probably can afford a car for which the annual cost of ownership is about 20% of my annual savings rate. With this ratio only a used Octavia fits the bill. The 2.0 TDI with the DQ250 is then the car which I can live with. The Jetta 2.0 TDI DSG is a better car with the multi link suspension and also the classier understated looks. However I find it now showing age and hence I prefer the Octavia. Although I am a petrol head I donít have the risk appetite to buy a preowned 1.8 TSI with the DQ200 outside of warranty. In case I want to enjoy the Petrol Octavia I will have to buy it new but it has the highest cost in the three choices.

The priority for me is the performance specs with the 0-100 KMPH times being an important deciding factor. It has to be less than 10 seconds for sure. The new Octavia is an option in order to get a 180 BHP car and the used BMW is there for the same reason.

Of my analysis I am just not sure about two variables. One is the cost which I will have to bear for parts replacements due to ageing or failing abruptly. I have considered that for the 4 year old BMW this will be in the range of 2 lacs over the next 4 years whereas it will be about 1.5 lacs for the 3 year old 2.0 TDI DSG Octavia. The regular maintenance bill will be separate which will cover the various fluid changes and basic maintenance.

The second variable which I am not sure is the resale value.
I have assumed that a 8 year old BMW today will sell for 10 lacs and a 7 year old Diesel Octavia with DSG will sell for 4.5 lacs. These prices will appreciate by just about 3% per annum due to inflation.


Analysis on Car Ownership Cost (Excel Spreadsheet is also uploaded with the post in order to understand the working)
Pre-owned BMW 320d, pre-owned Skoda Octavia 2.0 TDI, or brand new Octavia 1.8 TSI DSG?-car-cost-analysis.jpg

From the financial perspective the diesel Octavia wins in the table. I however wanted to take the opinion of other team bhp members. If the consensus is that my analysis is flawed as I will be staring a bigger expense or loss and the stress will be much higher with frequent breakdowns in the car then I will cancel my plans to buy the car for now. I am not considering any other car and hence any recommendations on a different make from my three choices will not help me that much.

I also have the below tables listing my personal views on the advantages and disadvantages of the choices. These views are personal and I understand that others can disagree with me.

Pre-owned BMW 320d, pre-owned Skoda Octavia 2.0 TDI, or brand new Octavia 1.8 TSI DSG?-car-choices-advantages.jpg

Pre-owned BMW 320d, pre-owned Skoda Octavia 2.0 TDI, or brand new Octavia 1.8 TSI DSG?-car-choices-disadvantages.jpg

Note to Moderators: Please excuse me for starting a new thread if this could be posted in an already existing one. You may merge the post if doesn't deserve a separate thread.
Attached Files
File Type: xlsx Car Cost Analysis.xlsx (14.2 KB, 260 views)

Last edited by RajBajwa : 10th August 2017 at 21:39. Reason: I had to edit the title to inclue the variant of the car choices
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Old 10th August 2017, 23:38   #2
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Default re: Pre-owned BMW 320d, pre-owned Skoda Octavia 2.0 TDI, or brand new Octavia 1.8 TSI DSG?

Let me take a stab at this thread as i loved the way you almost gave a nice overview of all three cars.

I will assume you have eliminated all other cars in this price segment and you have finalized these three.

If money is not an issue with the budget presented above, just get the 320D. Even the petrol TSI is not a match in various aspect to the 320D. Step on the gas and you will see why people love this variant of BMW the most. Skoda still may want to you upgrade. That bimmer may not.


There are Lots of independent garages that have come up to take care of 320's. Only cons i can see is the cost factor.

At this price range do check the Mini S. Pocket Rocket

Last edited by VW2010 : 10th August 2017 at 23:44.
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Old 11th August 2017, 10:58   #3
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Default Re: Pre-owned BMW 320d, pre-owned Skoda Octavia 2.0 TDI, or brand new Octavia 1.8 TSI DSG?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RajBajwa View Post
This is after about 8 years of ownership of a Fiat Linea.
Great to hear that you hold onto cars for long . Very sensible, financially.

Quote:
The most important factor however which will enable me to buy the next car is the total cost of ownership
Buying a 20 lakh car is never about the total cost of ownership. In fact, it's all about diminishing returns for cars costing over 10 - 14 lakhs. There is the matter of depreciation, high maintenance costs & of course, the fact that cars from a segment below have become so darn competent.

Quote:
I am not sure if I can afford the cars
If you aren't sure, you shouldn't walk anywhere toward a used German out of warranty, especially a 4 - 5 year old BMW.

My recommendation to you - get a pre-owned Octavia that's still within the factory warranty. Do a thorough pre-purchase inspection on it, pay a VFM price and extend the factory warranty. Would recommend a pre-owned VW Jetta too, even though you've ruled it out.
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Old 11th August 2017, 18:16   #4
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Default Re: Pre-owned BMW 320d, pre-owned Skoda Octavia 2.0 TDI, or brand new Octavia 1.8 TSI DSG?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
Let me take a stab at this thread as i loved the way you almost gave a nice overview of all three cars.
If money is not an issue with the budget presented above, just get the 320D. Even the petrol TSI is not a match in various aspect to the 320D. Step on the gas and you will see why people love this variant of BMW the most. Skoda still may want to you upgrade. That bimmer may not.
There are Lots of independent garages that have come up to take care of 320's. Only cons i can see is the cost factor.
At this price range do check the Mini S. Pocket Rocket
Thanks VW 2010!

I love the 320D for the performance. Itís got the 180 horses, the german automotive pedigree of perfecting the car over years, itís got all the works going for it. I however look at the car with a lens which tells me that the car retails at about $53,000 (~33 lacs INR) with all taxes on road in the developed markets, whereas we pay about 45 odd lacs for the same car due to the various import duties on parts and the higher taxes. That being said you are quite right that after upgrading to the Skoda Iíll still yearn to own a BMW some day.

The Mini S is quite the pocket rocket but since this purchase is for the primary car in the house I need the boot space and hence it has to be a sedan.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Great to hear that you hold onto cars for long . Very sensible, financially.
Thanks GTO. I hope to keep it for some more time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Buying a 20 lakh car is never about the total cost of ownership. In fact, it's all about diminishing returns for cars costing over 10 - 14 lakhs.
True. I agree that the cost of the car is not the initial price but the overall monetary deficit which one incurs over the period of ownership which can be as much as 20 lacs over a 4 Ė 5 year period. My purchasing capacity is hence determined on the basis of me being able to spend/lose 20 lacs in 4 years and not by the fact that I have the required sum to purchase the car upfront without any loans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
My recommendation to you - get a pre-owned Octavia that's still within the factory warranty. Do a thorough pre-purchase inspection on it, pay a VFM price and extend the factory warranty. Would recommend a pre-owned VW Jetta too, even though you've ruled it out.
Thanks. My head too tells me that. The Jetta is not completely ruled out. I just have a lesser preference for it. I know it is the better car compared to the Octavia and also the understated styling is more of my type. I have test driven all the three choices here - Used 320D, Octavia 2.0 TDI DSG and the new 1.8 TSI. Iíll also check the Jetta. Maybe that may change my view.
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Old 12th August 2017, 11:52   #5
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Default Re: Pre-owned BMW 320d, pre-owned Skoda Octavia 2.0 TDI, or brand new Octavia 1.8 TSI DSG?

If you are going to look at Jetta, just get the new octavia. I own a jetta from 2010. Today if I had to choose one sedan it may be between the elantra and Octavia where I will invariably bite my teeth and pick the Skoda in spite of its poor reputation knowing I have 4 years of worst case coverage.
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Old 12th August 2017, 12:29   #6
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Default Re: Pre-owned BMW 320d, pre-owned Skoda Octavia 2.0 TDI, or brand new Octavia 1.8 TSI DSG?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RajBajwa View Post
I love the 320D for the performance. Itís got the 180 horses, the german automotive pedigree of perfecting the car over years, itís got all the works going for it.
Precisely, and that is why I too would recommend this over the other choices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RajBajwa View Post
I however look at the car with a lens which tells me that the car retails at about $53,000 (~33 lacs INR) with all taxes on road in the developed markets, whereas we pay about 45 odd lacs for the same car due to the various import duties on parts and the higher taxes.
Since you are contemplating a pre owned purchase, this aspect isn't relevant to you. No?


Quote:
Originally Posted by RajBajwa View Post
True. I agree that the cost of the car is not the initial price but the overall monetary deficit which one incurs over the period of ownership which can be as much as 20 lacs over a 4 Ė 5 year period.
Not really that high as long as you import spares (there are very reliable suppliers online and getting parts, both genuine and aftermarket isn't a challenge with some patience) at the right prices and go to a reputed FNG, I don't see upkeep costs touching 5 lac/yr. How many kms do you think you will use it every year?
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Old 13th August 2017, 00:48   #7
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Default Re: Pre-owned BMW 320d, pre-owned Skoda Octavia 2.0 TDI, or brand new Octavia 1.8 TSI DSG?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RajBajwa View Post
The table below has the details on how the amounts are computed. I am also attaching the excel sheet with the working. What I have done is calculated the purchase value taking into account the interest compounded over the period of time I will keep the car + Insurance + Maintenance (Regular Servicing) + cost for replacing parts which will fail over time + Incremental fuel bill as compared to my current ride – Resale value.
Oh, very useful calculation indeed. How did you get the present resale value? Many websites like Cars24 show very low resale value of these cars than what you mentioned.

Also, I felt that you should have considered zero-dep insurance, instead of comprehensive insurance.

For the new Octavia, you have not considered any regular maintenance cost. Does the 4 year maintenance package really include all the charges?
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Old 13th August 2017, 01:03   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
If you are going to look at Jetta, just get the new octavia. I own a jetta from 2010. Today if I had to choose one sedan it may be between the elantra and Octavia where I will invariably bite my teeth and pick the Skoda in spite of its poor reputation knowing I have 4 years of worst case coverage.


Thanks for the advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post

Since you are contemplating a pre owned purchase, this aspect isn't relevant to you. No?
The BMW is still a choice. I was just making a statement that I find them overpriced in India compared to other markets due to the different duties and taxes. Even though I may buy it pre owned, it is still relatively expensive as it depreciates from a higher sticker price to begin with.









Quote:
Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
Not really that high as long as you import spares (there are very reliable suppliers online and getting parts, both genuine and aftermarket isn't a challenge with some patience) at the right prices and go to a reputed FNG, I don't see upkeep costs touching 5 lac/yr. How many kms do you think you will use it every year?

The 5 lacs per year amount is not for upkeep but total ownership cost which is purchase price with interest plus maintenance, insurance - resale value. I am estimating a total of about 2 lacs as repairs bill over a period of 4 years. I am not sure of this number though. I am afraid that it might be more. My initial post has an excel file uploaded as well which has the calculations for the total money it will cost me for the three different choices over a period of 4 years.

Thanks for your advice about the option of importing spares directly through online channels and that I should be able to find a FNG who have the skills/expertise to work on such cars.

I currently drive about 8000 kms in a year. With two cars I think it will change to 7000 kms for the new car and 2000 kms for the old car in a year. I drive the car 365 days a year and I don't ever step out of my home without the car but still the running is less because my office commute is just a total of 20 kms for both ways 5 days a week and my weekend drives are only within the city.
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Old 13th August 2017, 16:19   #9
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Default Re: Pre-owned BMW 320d, pre-owned Skoda Octavia 2.0 TDI, or brand new Octavia 1.8 TSI DSG?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RajBajwa View Post
I am estimating a total of about 2 lacs as repairs bill over a period of 4 years. I am not sure of this number though.
Definitely on the higher side.

At an estimated usage of 7k km per year, you will need a service once in 2 yrs and with less than 5k km/month, you will ideally not need any suspension replacements as well.
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Old 13th August 2017, 17:24   #10
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Default Re: Pre-owned BMW 320d, pre-owned Skoda Octavia 2.0 TDI, or brand new Octavia 1.8 TSI DSG?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RajBajwa View Post
Hi,

I have started contemplating to buy a new car. This is after about 8 years of ownership of a Fiat Linea. The second car is not a need but just a want. The only reason that I want to get another car is to get an upgrade in terms of driving pleasure and performance.
I'm here to offer an alternative point of view so you may either find it interesting or not helpful at all. Incase it is the latter, my apologies.

Considering you have mentioned that this is not a need but just a want, and also that you want to have an upgrade aside from wanting more performance, how about buying a comfy yet reliable used D-Segment car like a Teana or an Accord to drive about with friends who can enjoy and appreciate the space, comfort and quality of materials and have a good time together (Teana scores really high in all these three departments). With that out of the way, go to town modifying your Linea. In my experience, D-Segment sedans are only enjoyable to drive out on the highway, and the rest of the time, given our road conditions and traffic, they are honestly quite a pain in terms of driving pleasure. A heavily modified car (not just filter, exhaust, remap) is anyday quicker and more enjoyable to drive than a car from a few segments higher. Why pay so much more for maintenance and reliability concerns to a manufacturer that will only offer you a slightly better driving experience, when you can buy and fit all the components necessary from brands that purpose build them to deliver exquisite driving traits, to your existing car, and enjoy a MUCH better driving experience. Also, considering the Linea is manufactured locally, unlike any entry level luxury sedan, maintaining your thrills will be a lot easier. Smaller footprint also adds to the fun. Considering you have owned it for 8 years, you will have a certain familiarity when it comes to driving the car that will take some time to get with some other car meaning you can extract a lot more from the upgrades to it as well. With the money you save by not having to maintain an imported car you can also enter your modified Linea into drag and autocross events and truly take your driving experience to the next level. Overall, I feel pound for pound, you will find this to be the best option. If you are really serious about wanting an upgrade in driving pleasure and performance that is. Just mull it over

Last edited by IshaanIan : 13th August 2017 at 17:29.
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Old 13th August 2017, 22:52   #11
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Default Re: Pre-owned BMW 320d, pre-owned Skoda Octavia 2.0 TDI, or brand new Octavia 1.8 TSI DSG?

Quote:
I however look at the car with a lens which tells me that the car retails at about $53,000 (~33 lacs INR) with all taxes on road in the developed markets
Quote:
I was just making a statement that I find them overpriced in India compared to other markets due to the different duties and taxes. .
Apart from small hatch & midsize sedans, India is an expensive market for everything and that is not just restricted to cars in my opinion. Most of the premium cars from BMW/ MB here are sold with many extras as a standard against paid options in any other market. So out of door prices overseas after those loadings will be much higher.

Coming to your query, by my experience, if you have to buy a second hand, go for a BMW, something which is maintained at the dealership with low mileage, there will be many options as many people upgrade within BMW, if you are Ok with Chandigarh registered car, I can help you get in touch with the pre-owned sales guy at Krishna. If it has to be a new then I believe newer Skoda Octavia should be a good option.

Last edited by Turbanator : 13th August 2017 at 22:55.
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Old 13th August 2017, 23:05   #12
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Default Re: Pre-owned BMW 320d, pre-owned Skoda Octavia 2.0 TDI, or brand new Octavia 1.8 TSI DSG?

I haven't gone through the data you posted, but when you mention driving pleasure, and a BMW is one of the options, it becomes the default choice in my books.

Now let me warn you, the Linea ride will have spoiled you. And neither the BMWs nor the Skodas can match the low speed ride (less than 80kmph).

That being said, it seems you are looking to spend around 22-24 lacs. I would say find a good condition 3-4 year old 320d. They are fairly reliable and OEM parts are easily available nowadays which makes maintenance cheaper.

Also personally after having 3 BMWs and 2 Skodas I find the BMWs more reliable. Comparing with the vehicles friends own too, BMWs give less issues than Skoda when driven with relative care to the vehicle.
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