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View Poll Results: Which build do you think I should go for?
Turbo charged Baleno? 28 44.44%
OHC with B16? 3 4.76%
Lancer with Mivec? 37 58.73%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2nd September 2007, 04:56   #16
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Originally Posted by chetanhanda View Post
but there are ppl in india who have done this and u have rocam also..
Thats a big plus point.

Quote:
u got a choice of how tough u want it or how much less vibration u want ...
I think drag spec performance aftermarket mounts will outlast your car...
u have choice of oem (crapiest rubber type of material), polyurethane (stiffer) or solid billet types ..these are toughest u can get, but they will trasmit all the bloody vibration to ur steering wheel.. I would prefer these becoz they will be tough and wouldn't mind the vibrations .. and will last u thru ur drag launches etc..
Will have to do some cross checking with Jitu on this. Though I really don't like the vibrations being felt on the steering.

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ok.. matter of choice ..I love the OHC handling.. ..
u can always get adjustable shocks ,stiffer springs , strut braces of correct rigidity etc tec .. but then if u still dont like it then no use thinking abt this ...
Maybe wolf will let me drive his OHC on track and I can take a call on it .

Quote:
it depends how comfortable u are with the honda engines and how much the name "Honda" or "Mitsubishi" means to u etc.. im sure wrc fans will say lancer...
Brand names doesn't make that much of a difference. Not to me atleast. But one thing to keep in mind will be that if I am to take part in drags I will be directly competing with the Supra, Evo's, Scooby's, B16 turbo's, godknowswhatall. I wouldn't stand a chance. Because I am sure I will not want to go turbo on either the B16 or the Mivec. After this I will be looking at picking up a better car like a Supra or a Skyline itself (mostly stock) in 3 yrs time. Yeah, I can dream right?

Quote:
u may have to do some more Rnd from scratch to understand these family of engines .. u are already familiar with G16, its wiring etc etc .. also in the case of baleno.. u dont have to go thru the pain of a transplant, u have the engine, u can start on ur turbo straightaway..
Thats a plus point as well.

Quote:
any car with a hard race/drag clutch, cams,header,exhaust and ecu tuned for top end power will be a pain in the ***.. even a suzi or a lancer will be a pain in city if its tuned for a diff purpose... but im sure u will forget abt the "pain in the ***" part after u have hit vtec a few times... , u could even trigger the vtec crossover at lower revs..
Infact, the current setup on the baleno was awesome if not for the reliability. With some 12.x CR the torque was awesome. Even after I dropped the compression too the torque was good. I have driven a couple of quick Vtec's including wolf's. I prefered the torque of the Baleno.

Quote:
with mivec and b16 u will have to be cautious always...but with a baleno ..its comparatively more easier to get parts etc... hoses,sensors et etc
That is definitely one major factor swinging towards the baleno build. Do note the fact that regular events at track day and drags with me pushing it will take a toll on the engine at some point or the other over a prolonged period. The easier parts I am able to source the least headaches for me.

Quote:
ya .. u wont know unless u try and crate it urself from japan or US..
in case of both the mivec and the b16 .. u will always have this thought in ur mind.. with a baleno .. there are more chances u may get a base stock engine in good form.
I don't think I have the necessary connections to do that all by myself. I will have to depend on tuner friends or people like Jitu or Farhan for help. And hope that their contacts will be able to give us a good, well maintained engine.

As for the baleno, even if you blow an engine you can get a complete engine for about 80k tops. B16 & Mivec will easily cost you twice as much.

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 2nd September 2007 at 04:58.
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Old 2nd September 2007, 08:55   #17
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Hey Rahul,

What other cons are you looking at by Turbocharging the Baleno?
What kind of reliability? How many TC'ed Balenos are there in the country, rather around the world?
How many have passed the test of time and reliability?

You have to consider all these things!

As of now, since you're saying that the Mivec engine is a direct bolt on, Its got a slightly bigger advantage...

Shrivz

Last edited by shrivz : 2nd September 2007 at 08:58.
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Old 2nd September 2007, 09:21   #18
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Hi Mclaren,
I would suggest you go for the mivec, as a good friend of mine had one and i can vouch for the 'bang for the buck' that the car delivers. Installation is pretty straightforward unlike the honda, and you would have the thrill of driving something other than a baleno. Dont get me wrong, a TCed baleno is a great car, but wouldn't you like a change? this car was putting out 150+bhp after the transplant, and was a hoot to drive.
email me if you need pics and further details. (ashwin_mails@msn.com)
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Old 2nd September 2007, 09:57   #19
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rahul remember the problem you had earlier on the higher octane fuel when you were running. higher octane similarly you would need the same 97+octane all over again and the problem of not finding it in other places.
seeing you like going for long trips but if you go turbo you will be using low compression then you wouldn't need higher octane which is available at other places almost all over india.
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Old 2nd September 2007, 10:31   #20
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Rahul,

Potentially the Baleno TC seems to be the most viable option keeping in mind daily usability and practicality of the car.
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Old 2nd September 2007, 11:22   #21
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Have not got to reading all the responses...

MIVEC to end your misery

The build and comfort of a lancer is unparalleled. With a new heart you will have some rip roaring fun. Only restricting factor here that I can see is the required investment.

Of course the TC Baleno is more practical in terms of your history with her as well as Vitamin M.
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Old 2nd September 2007, 11:27   #22
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MIVEC. You know you have reliability issues already. No matter what but I haven't seen a successful Turbo job with reliability and I don't wish to challenge anyone. You need peace of mind go the MIVEC way. The only let down for the MIVEC is the need of 97 Octane fuel.
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Old 2nd September 2007, 12:33   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shrivz
What kind of reliability?
Reliability can be achieved. I know of a couple of turbo cars that lasted for a long time without a glitch. The mistake most do is, they either turn up the boost too much when the internals can't handle or they get their mapping wrong.

Quote:
How many TC'ed Balenos are there in the country, rather around the world? How many have passed the test of time and reliability?
There are many, though not in India. So many, I seem to have lost a count on them. Yes, a lot of them have passed the test of time and are reliable. For more info on turbo Baleno's check TeamSwift :: Index or RedlineGTi.com - Home of the Suzuki Swift GTi (ssgti) or Worldwide Suzuki Baleno Enthusiasts Group

Besides no serious tuner in India has ever tried on TCing a baleno except Leela. Apparently the car was running all fine, but was busting gearboxes (Akshay should be able to give us more concrete info on this). I think that has got to do with the way Leela did his installs or the way the owners treated their car since almost ALL of his turbo projects ended up in either blowing engines or gearboxes.

Guys, I have had to face a very big problem with my Baleno with 97 Oct fuel + Oct boosters. So much that I hate mentioning of the word 97 Oct. They are either available in a very limited number of petrol pumps in big cities, almost non-available elsewhere and a big pain to carry a few extra cans in the boot while traveling long distances. Every km you cover has to be accounted for so that you don't go wrong with the calculations and end up with no fuel. That means no deviations to some nice places like Munnar or Ooty. Just Bangalore to Madurai and back. Which kind of sucks, since I love traveling to nice places in my Baleno. I love to click some pics with picturesque backgrounds. You get the drift. With the Mivec it will the same hurdle all over again. Farhan, where art thou? Need your inputs on this one.

Ash_vtec, could you kindly PM me the pics please?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash_vtec
but wouldn't you like a change?
Honestly speaking, NO. I am just looking at keeping the car (whichever I decide to build) for another 3 years and then move onto the big guns which will be putting out 200+ stock, most preferably sports cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moralfibre
You know you have reliability issues already.
That was for trying to pioneer what no one else had EVER tried on a Baleno worldwide. It was a stupid thing to do, or maybe a thing that ought to be done by one who has an unlimited budget. I know a couple of tuners who have successfully setup turbo's on engines like Vtec's, esteems and have run without any hassles. Besides I always have Jitu's help (hope so ) to guide me through a turbo setup since he is getting one done too.

So right now it all boils down to:
1. TC V/s NA.
2. 97 Oct V/s 91 Oct.
3. Indian Engine (ease of parts) V/s Foreign Engine (unknown history of engine).
4. From being competitive in the Indian Class V/s Being nothing in the Foreign Open.
5. From having a peace of mind (from Indian tuners able to figure out faulty parts & find quick replacements) V/s A nightmare should something go wrong on these import engines.

Its a tough call alright *banging head against wall*.

PS: Kiran, watching too much of The Girl Next Door are you

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 2nd September 2007 at 12:35.
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Old 2nd September 2007, 13:34   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post

Besides no serious tuner in India has ever tried on TCing a baleno except Leela. Apparently the car was running all fine, but was busting gearboxes (Akshay should be able to give us more concrete info on this). I think that has got to do with the way Leela did his installs or the way the owners treated their car since almost ALL of his turbo projects ended up in either blowing engines or gearboxes.

Hey rahul, heard about the hyperformance fellow!!!!, with his infamous 90 degree bent CAI and TURBO+LPG balenos??? i Think there is one such monstrosity in this forum itself.. but again, u used the word SERIOUS tuner!!
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Old 2nd September 2007, 13:41   #25
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Originally Posted by JayD View Post
Hey rahul, heard about the hyperformance fellow!!!!, with his infamous 90 degree bent CAI and TURBO+LPG balenos??? i Think there is one such monstrosity in this forum itself.. but again, u used the word SERIOUS tuner!!
Oh, I have done an extensive report on his work. Look out for a thread started by me in the Modifications section about this tuner Niviit Bhasin.
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Old 2nd September 2007, 14:31   #26
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Rahul
I think you should start fresh on a different platform now, A change from Suzuki to Mitsubishi will definately make you happy. Since you all have close proximity to "Track" compared to mumbai, the lancers have an edge over Honda when it comes to handling & on Track the handling of cars plays a vital role on track timing, not that Honda handling can be improved but stock wise lancers are better. A used lancer will be inexpensive & Mivecs Swaps are easy & hassle free compared to Honda & you have always farhan to guide you on that & you have a factory gauranted 175HP on tap with good handling.

The only drawback i see is the compulsory use of 97 oct fuel + some octane booster, thats because of high static c.r (~11.0+) which mivec is running?
well there is a solution for that. Add a head gasket, im not telling you to put another oem head gasket on over it, but get a metal head gasket which is thicker, & put oem head gasket over it, try to get c.r close to 10.2~10.4, there wont be much loss in power but you will be able to run 91oct fuel. you will need a set of adjustable cam gears to set cam timing. Farhan should be able to help you on the metal head gasket thickness sizing v/s c.r & sourcing the same.
Aftermarket Cams,A Good Head Job with custom or Bolt on Headers for mivec with Free Flow & C.A.I & other bolt on Mods & Tune up should give you increase in power close to 180-190 HP with 91oct fuel.

Stock some spares like New Timing Belt,Head Gasket, bottom end gasket set,Cyl Head valve seals & other small gasket/seals its available as a kit & are not that expensive & you are done. dont rely on your tuner i have a very bitter experience when i trusted my extuner first for spares, i trusted him & later when i needed for my build i found out that he sold it some one else & i was stranded.

This way you will have a reliable car which will handle good on tracks & daily drive as well & when you come for drag just use a direct port 75 shot Nos with some timing adjustment which your tuner can do & with some weight reduction in car & a lightweight driver it should do a easy high 13 or low 14 sec 1/4 mile run.
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Old 2nd September 2007, 14:46   #27
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Thats a wonderful suggestion Jitu. I too was thinking about the availability of parts like say headgaskets etc. But the idea of getting a custom headgasket done is something that slipped my mind totally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Rocam
Farhan should be able to help you on the metal head gasket thickness sizing v/s c.r & sourcing the same.
Farhan, where art thou?

Quote:
Aftermarket Cams,A Good Head Job with custom or Bolt on Headers for mivec with Free Flow & C.A.I & other bolt on Mods & Tune up should give you increase in power close to 180-190 HP with 91oct fuel.
Are these available readily in India? If so what would they cost? I guess we will have to wait for Farhan for this one too I guess. Sounds very lucrative.

Quote:
Stock some spares like New Timing Belt,Head Gasket, bottom end gasket set,Cyl Head valve seals & other small gasket/seals its available as a kit & are not that expensive & you are done.
Exactly the kind of stuff I need. I heard that one of the Mivec's had a conked thermostat & the owner was stranded for 3 weeks to get it from KL. If such a thing happens to me I am DEAD. One important point why I wanted to stay Indian.

Quote:
dont rely on your tuner i have a very bitter experience when i trusted my extuner first for spares, i trusted him & later when i needed for my build i found out that he sold it some one else & i was stranded.
Gotcha. I have either ways decided to stock some spares right from the beginning irrespective of what build I choose. Also I intend to start the build only after I have ALL the parts and spares sourced. No point in starting thinking you can add some stuff later on etc.

Quote:
a lightweight driver it should do a easy high 13 or low 14 sec 1/4 mile run.
I don't think you have seen my pics of lately. Driver is no lightweight, but heavyweight. High 13's? Hhhmm. Still won't get me anywhere. But thats a compromise I am willing to make in lieu for reliability & good handling.

Jitu, thanks a ton for putting up such a detailed analysis. Now, my mind has swung from 80:20 (G16:4G) to 50:50. Now I guess I will send forward for a quote to Farhan and see what comes through. Also should I buy a car and get the swap done myself or is it better for me to buy an already Mivec'd car? Farhan, any leads on this one?
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Old 2nd September 2007, 14:53   #28
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Mivec dude ... mivec for total package
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Old 2nd September 2007, 15:30   #29
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Found this beautiful signature on one of the Mitsu forums ..

Vtec:All of the lag,none of the turbo .. Its like waiting for bad sex!

Vtec fans .. don't shoot the messenger
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Old 2nd September 2007, 16:29   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
I think that has got to do with the way Leela did his installs or the way the owners treated their car since almost ALL of his turbo projects ended up in either blowing engines or gearboxes.
Out of two cars turbo-charged by leela(1-Baleno and 1 swift) i have seen in Bangalore,the baleno did have the problems mentioned by you,but was quite easily solved in Bangalore itself by using parts available with the owner's friends(i think you can get the drift).

Both cars(atleast in my limited knowledge!) were maintained exceptionaly well by whom i would say are exceptional driver's.

Baleno was returned to stock because the car was to be given to family use(which is the case now)before clocking a good 10,000kms of reliable service, Swift remains turbo-charged to date without a hassle.

Why iam using these two cars as an example? these were the cars who suffered the failure's you mentioned the most. The current ride of the owner is a fully blown mivec.

Thank you
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