Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > What Car? > Sedans


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 31st October 2007, 23:09   #31
BHPian
 
vcash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 453
Thanked: 14 Times
Default

Guys - My posts were not intended to start of an argument on engine performance in anyway. I apologize if this was construed by my language.

All I am trying to convey is both cars as a complete package are in the same segments. If I had to use engine size as a benchmark for segmentation, then I can proclaim that Cedia does not compete with corolla or optra or civic? Why because it has 2.0L engine and is a direct threat to the Bimmer 320i.

If Vishesh cares only for the engine and the performance - yes the Corolla is the one to get. But from that perspective why not a used Octavia RS? But if he is looking for a well rounded car - IMO and my opinion only - the SX4 makes the best sense - great value, features in the corolla segment.

Anyway - It is Vishesh's descision and I wish him the very best for the car that he chooses. He can't go wrong with either of them.

Thanks.
vcash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st October 2007, 23:21   #32
Senior - BHPian
 
iTNerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Imphal/Noida
Posts: 1,069
Thanked: 500 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
Mr i, pick any highway, sit & watch. Count the number of SX4s that zoom past Corolla. If you can count even 1, I will be like
Note: I will get the City. You get the SX4. Also you pick the location. I will show which is underpowered & over-tyred
one dump and arrogant fella, ain't you? See at yourself: Infractions: 0/2(9)

Spoilt brat! Grow up!
iTNerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st October 2007, 23:26   #33
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bengalooru
Posts: 1,471
Thanked: 7 Times
Default

Hey i___t headmaster, SX4 is not the end of the world. Anyway, check this out https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/annou...on-system.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by iTNerd View Post
one dump and arrogant fella, ain't you? See at yourself: Infractions: 0/2(9)

Spoilt brat! Grow up!
diabloo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2007, 00:10   #34
BHPian
 
ashish22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 575
Thanked: 43 Times
Default

@vcash..first of all i respect your emotions towards a particular car...well the objective here is not to prove which car is best but rather to advice an individual that what car will best suit his BUDGET
Quote:
Okay guys time for a little factual research before making assumptions that SX4 is in a different segment. I am being totally objective here. If Maruti had priced the SX4 at 10L, I guarantee you that most of the people on the forum would not hesitate twice in comparing the car to the Corolla / Civic / Cedia / Magnum (Also resulting in dissmal sales for the SX4 because of pseudo-premium image set by its competitors). Toyota is sold as a premium product in India due to perception influenced by marketing and quality. Internationally the Corolla does infact compete with the SX4. Lets look at the Spec sheet below.
well we infact are already comparing SX4 with corolla/cedia aren't we?
Toyota is sold as a premium quality product in india because of its quality and touch of luxury which is exculsive and not matched by many competitors and maruti sorely loses out to toyota here because its not offering products in india which could be at par with toyota and hence its downgrade image(and we can't blame toyota or honda or others to create this kind of situation can we?). Only maruti is to be blamed here.
Millions of indians, have in their past, made buying decisons which were stimulated by the effective marketing done by the respective brands and for a successful marketing you got to have the backing of a proper product and this is where maruti has failed to established itself as a premium brand in india because it never had that kind of a product and it still has to overcome this barrier. Until that happens we lesser mortals i guess will keep preferring toyotas, hondas etc. over maruti suzuki.
Having said that let me come to the main point..buddy whatever data you have presented here is commendable but not justified because its not the US market which we are talking about, its the INDIAN market. The SX4 which is sold in US is a completely different car in terms of features, power, safety and dynamics. On the other hand Indian SX4 is like a naked version of the US SX4...to be honest! US SX4 is far superior and hence its been compared to corolla and civic because it justifies its creditibility.
Quote:
@ Zoom2_ash - Agreed, snob value is there in India favoring the Corolla and yes it does have about 23bhp more on tap than the SX4 and the quality is probably better. But internationally, esp. in the US: we are looking at two basic bottom of the line budget cars. And when you are on a budget you pick value - SX4 is more powerful / better warranty and tons of more features.
and this is exactly why cars like cedia and elantra should have an edge over SX4 when its comes to features and value for money. Look at elantra..its more safer, more powerful and more comfortable and not much expensive than SX4 but still it failed to do well in india, thanks to the hyundai image in premium segment and somewhat because of its looks and thus resulting in lack of snob value which is so very important in premium segment. Now consider cedia, it has all the features which are present in sx4 except climate control but than it has more power, better handling and stability, more snob value and better quality interiors(solid and long lasting). But still its hasn't done well thanks to some sick marketing done by hindustan motors. I can bet on my dog(he's my life ) that had hindustan motors positioned cedia well in Indian market it would have eaten sizeable chunk of honda citys, fiestas, SX4s and others market share easily. And let us not forget that sx4 is strictly for 4 occupants because of its rear seat design and thus for a family of more than 4 it could be an issue. But than sx4 again strikes back with better a.s.s
so the crux of the situation is that in indian market cedias and corollas will always have more snob value than sx4s and when snob value is backed up by the proper features it results in a competitive product and that is why i would prefer cedia over sx4 in this case because the buyer has the capability to buy it so why not to go for a product which has competent features and better snob value too! And this is the only reason that the basic corolla version fails to make an impression here because it doesn't have the required features to be competitive enough.
Quote:
Buddy - get your facts straight! Look at the comparison sheet below. The SX4 in the US is more expensive than the Corolla / Has a stronger engine and as for your comments on rubbing shoulders - I will let the interior dimensions do the talking - If you rub shoulders in a SX4; you have to rub shoulders in the Corolla unless TKM has some witchcraft dispenser in the car that shrinks you and your co passenger cause interior dimensions are almost IDENTICAL! Exterior dimensions aren't too far apart as well.
Again there is a mistake of considering the US market. The Sx4 is more expensive in US because it has obvious reasons..it has bigger engine, sporty characteristics to name the few...
as far as interiors are concerned again the limitation of not more than 4 occupants can be an issue with sx4 and corolla has better legroom than sx4 thanks to its better wheelbase.
Quote:
But from a Technological and contemporary stand point - The SX4 takes the cake.
i don't think Indian sx4 is technologically superior to corolla..the US sx4 could be called better technologically equipped due to some features such as cruise control, monitoring systems etc but the Indian sx4 doesn't have that kind of features..so i don't think anyone would want to buy an sx4 in India because its technological than corolla (I'm not talking about the basic corolla version)
we can't even take a contemporary stand point here because if being contemporary is what it takes than we cant go wrong with corolla which is the WORLD'S BIGGEST SELLER...and i think that reason is contemporary enough to go for a corolla because millions of buyers around the world cant be wrong.
The bottom line is that if the buyer had the budget of going for a normal corolla version than i would have advised him to go for a corolla over sx4 with even batting an eyelid. But since the buyer is considering basic corolla here which i don't think is competitive enough and thus I'm suggesting him an alternative which is cedia which has both features and snob value which gives it an edge over SX4.
ashish22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2007, 02:11   #35
Senior - BHPian
 
IronWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Benga-loo-ru
Posts: 1,569
Thanked: 36 Times
Default

Corolla - Yawn, dated, boring
SX4 - to bulky and SUV like

Better option IMO in the similar price band.. Cedia. Balanced, and quick. Sports versions in black/ red look stunning.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indiancarpicture-924.html
IronWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2007, 09:54   #36
Senior - BHPian
 
RajaTaurus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tenkasi, TN
Posts: 1,069
Thanked: 338 Times
Default

Well, "Diabloo" answered "Vcash"..
No one here is comparing the US cars or the Europe/China/Middle East or Japanese version. Every single car is INDIANIZED before it is launched in India and SX4 is no exception.
Check out this:
Maruti SX4 ZXi vs Honda Civic 1.8V MT vs Toyota Corolla H2 1.8E | Car Comparisons - CarWale.com India

And find out the difference between the US SX4 and Indianized version...
RajaTaurus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2007, 10:02   #37
Senior - BHPian
 
RajaTaurus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tenkasi, TN
Posts: 1,069
Thanked: 338 Times
Default

All the emotional spills aprt,
An 1.6 Liter, 102 bhp Machine cannot be compared with 1.8 ot 2 liter 110+ bhp machines, just coz it looks similar or bigger in size and has bigger wheels...
And a Rs. 7.5 Lakhs vehcile is being compared with 9.3 and 12 Lakhs vehicles...(Of course Indian car buyer is smart enough not to spend 3-4 Lakhs for Brand alone...!!!)
It sure is just comparing Apples and Peaches..
RajaTaurus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2007, 13:20   #38
BHPian
 
vcash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 453
Thanked: 14 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashish22 View Post
@vcash..first of all i respect your emotions towards a particular car...well the objective here is not to prove which car is best but rather to advice an individual that what car will best suit his BUDGET
I agree - the objective is advice but what irks me is when emotional feedback is passed on as factual research - Look at the Corolla fan boys in this thread alone! And even though I have just bought this car - it holds pure utilitarian value - no emotions involved here at all. I cannot have budget sedans excite me. What excites me is my 1963 MB 190c. What excites me is the notion of owning an XK150 or a Defender or a M5 or a Pontiac G8. Here I would be emotionally biased.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashish22 View Post
well we infact are already comparing SX4 with corolla/cedia aren't we?
Are we? Most of the comments on T-Bhp are that the SX4 is in a lower segment - here is a premium alternative a.ka. cedia / corolla. I beleive you have done this inadvertantly through your post as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashish22 View Post
Toyota is sold as a premium quality product in india because of its quality and touch of luxury which is exculsive and not matched by many competitors and maruti sorely loses out to toyota here because its not offering products in india which could be at par with toyota and hence its downgrade image(and we can't blame toyota or honda or others to create this kind of situation can we?).
I agree with you. Why should Suzuki blame its competitors - maybe they should blame their roots - they started with the 800 which was the peoples car and the stigma has been with them ever since. I find it funny that TKM started with the Qualis, a muv taxi for all intensive purposes and is now considered a premium product in India that commands premium pricing. Thats what a commitment to quality and great marketing can do and TKM do this best. Also the Corolla has some aspirational value - it breaks the Million rupee marker and lets face it, us Indians have some pretty rigid pre-conceived notions. I dont have numbers but if someone surveyed NRIs in the US - I would strongly you that the Toyota Corolla, Toyota Camry and Lexus ES would top the charts (Look at my presupposition here ). This influences buying descions to an extent as we tend to ape success and for many years Sushila Aunty Ki Bhai ka Bada Ladka Amrika mein engineer hein or usne Karollla kharida dictated success (Though this is changing for the better now! And how!).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashish22 View Post
Only maruti is to be blamed here.
Millions of indians, have in their past, made buying decisons which were stimulated by the effective marketing done by the respective brands and for a successful marketing you got to have the backing of a proper product and this is where maruti has failed to established itself as a premium brand in india because it never had that kind of a product and it still has to overcome this barrier. Until that happens we lesser mortals i guess will keep preferring toyotas, hondas etc. over maruti suzuki.
I agree with you 100%. But this isn't Maruti - this is Suzuki. Globally their range was not as strong as Honda and Toyota. Things are improving now and its great to see India getting all global models and Suzuki itslef is moving up the aspirational chain.

I think the SX-4 is one product that is in the forefront of Suzuki's global revamp - It is a true competitor to the Corolla / Cedia / Elantra and Civic and the value is fantastic. I mean because of localization / tax cuts / smaller engine - it is undercutting the competition by 20% if not more.

Let me ask you this - If they had brought the 2.0L engine and had priced it at 10 L - would we even have this conversation? It would have resulted in fan boys proclaiming that the SX4 is Marutis first True blue premium sedan but this would have also resulted in this car dying a quick and fast death - because of stigmas and pre-conceptions.

What you are stating is a flawed syllogism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashish22 View Post
Having said that let me come to the main point..buddy whatever data you have presented here is commendable but not justified because its not the US market which we are talking about, its the INDIAN market. The SX4 which is sold in US is a completely different car in terms of features, power, safety and dynamics. On the other hand Indian SX4 is like a naked version of the US SX4...to be honest! US SX4 is far superior and hence its been compared to corolla and civic because it justifies its creditibility.....
My friend - the data indicates one thing and one thing only - The Cars in both countries are the same. Every country will have different engine options / saftey options / feature set etc but the car is the same. This is most prevalent between similar models sold in the US and Europe. Look at a car like the Mazda 6 in both countries - same cars but in the US top of the line engine is 3.0L V6 and in Europe it is a 2.0L 4cyl but it still competes with the Accord and Camry.

Purpose of the chart is to showcase competition and nothing else. And while we're on this the US SX4 and Indian SX4 are might similar barring powertrain. a fully loaded Zxi here with leather and all options including sport kit will look eirely similar. Off the top of my head this is what the US SX4 has over the Indian one - Bigger engine / side Airbags / 17" wheels / bigger brakes / lowered suspension and thats about it. All else should remain the same - ABS / Front Airbags / Climate Control / EBD / etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashish22 View Post
And let us not forget that sx4 is strictly for 4 occupants because of its rear seat design and thus for a family of more than 4 it could be an issue.
I agree - the rear bench is narrower than the Corolla and will be more uncomfortable for 5 adults. If Vishesh would require 5 ppl to be sitting in the car - the Corolla it is or better yet - An Innova. So lets not get nit picky on rear 4 vs. 5 passengers. Look at the car as a complete package.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashish22 View Post
so the crux of the situation is that in indian market cedias and corollas will always have more snob value than sx4s and when snob value is backed up by the proper features it results in a competitive product and that is why i would prefer cedia over sx4 in this case because the buyer has the capability to buy it so why not to go for a product which has competent features and better snob value too!

And this is the only reason that the basic corolla version fails to make an impression here because it doesn't have the required features to be competitive enough.
Spot on - If it is pseudo snob value that is being looked at - forget the SX4 - it will never get the ooohs and aaahs from friends and neighbors.
But again the car as a complete package is better value than the base Corolla.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashish22 View Post
Again there is a mistake of considering the US market. The Sx4 is more expensive in US because it has obvious reasons..it has bigger engine, sporty characteristics to name the few...
as far as interiors are concerned again the limitation of not more than 4 occupants can be an issue with sx4 and corolla has better legroom than sx4 thanks to its better wheelbase.
I have stated this before in all my previous posts - stop focusing on the engine. That is not the point of my comparision.

Interior dimensions are virtually the same and there can be no argument against cold hard facts. The SX4 has more leg room. Look at that charst carefully. Yes the Corolla is 4 inches longer in wheelbase but the SX4 has roomier interiors and more space as a whole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashish22 View Post
i don't think Indian sx4 is technologically superior to corolla..the US sx4 could be called better technologically equipped due to some features such as cruise control, monitoring systems etc but the Indian sx4 doesn't have that kind of features..so i don't think anyone would want to buy an sx4 in India because its technological than corolla (I'm not talking about the basic corolla version)
Where in India would you use cruise control? 75% of the time - you are trying to avoid cows and errant autorickshaws. CC would be more of a pain than a boon on our roads. Technology does not mean gadgets and gizmos. It is a term defining every aspect of the car - saftey / bulid process / efficiency / performance etc. A technological feature in the SX4 would be fly-by-wire throtle control or EBD. Even the top end corolla does not have this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashish22 View Post
we can't even take a contemporary stand point here because if being contemporary is what it takes than we cant go wrong with corolla which is the WORLD'S BIGGEST SELLER...and i think that reason is contemporary enough to go for a corolla because millions of buyers around the world cant be wrong.
What does contemporary have to do with sales? the Maruit Alto is India's largest seller - does that mean that it is contemporary? Hats off to Toyota for producing a model that sells the most through out the world - They are clearly doing something right - but sales are a result of many factors including having the most value in the western countries where it is an econobox - but there is a paradigm shift with Mazda and Suzuki and Mitsubishi coming into the fray. And like I said the car is old and if they dont change the model now (which they are) then do you think they will hold on to that title for long. The new civic would be more than happy to take that position. So being contemproray is a big factor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashish22 View Post
The bottom line is that if the buyer had the budget of going for a normal corolla version than i would have advised him to go for a corolla over sx4 with even batting an eyelid. But since the buyer is considering basic corolla here which i don't think is competitive enough and thus I'm suggesting him an alternative which is cedia which has both features and snob value which gives it an edge over SX4.
Why the Cedia and not the Civic. Oh wait - that another bag of worms
vcash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2007, 13:21   #39
BHPian
 
vcash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 453
Thanked: 14 Times
Default

double post - deleted.

Last edited by vcash : 1st November 2007 at 13:22.
vcash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2007, 14:07   #40
BHPian
 
ikoneer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: chennai
Posts: 486
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

SX4 or the Cedia would be the better choice...

no doubt toyota corolla is a great car... but it is there in our country for quite sometime and somehow i have found its' interior also not very appealing... corolla is run as a taxi car in the many far east countries itself and only in india it commands great respect

better TD CEdia as well and then decide...finally your comfort and feel matters
ikoneer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2007, 19:38   #41
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bengalooru
Posts: 1,471
Thanked: 7 Times
Default

Is he considering Cedia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ikoneer View Post
SX4 or the Cedia would be the better choice...
Some car has to be taxi in any country & actually its a compliment that it can take the abuse, run miles & deliver value to the owner.
Toyota Corolla might be taxi in some countries but its also the largest selling car in the history of automobile industry, sold in 140 countries and over 30 million sold
Corolla has better ride than SX4. Only drawback is the model sold in India is over 4 years old.
Quote:
no doubt toyota corolla is a great car... but it is there in our country for quite sometime and somehow i have found its' interior also not very appealing... corolla is run as a taxi car in the many far east countries itself and only in india it commands great respect
diabloo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2007, 20:24   #42
Senior - BHPian
 
rahul_intlad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,577
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Quote:
lower FE than even 1.8 Corolla..
Corolla manual should not give you less than 10.5-11 kmpl under ordinary driving conditions
So what do you say FE of the sx4 is.
rahul_intlad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2007, 21:10   #43
BHPian
 
ashish22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 575
Thanked: 43 Times
Default

hi vcash...glad we having this discussion...and i hope prospective buyers are reading this
Quote:
I agree - the objective is advice but what irks me is when emotional feedback is passed on as factual research - Look at the Corolla fan boys in this thread alone! And even though I have just bought this car - it holds pure utilitarian value - no emotions involved here at all. I cannot have budget sedans excite me. What excites me is my 1963 MB 190c. What excites me is the notion of owning an XK150 or a Defender or a M5 or a Pontiac G8. Here I would be emotionally biased.
Totally Agreed!
though me being a lesser mortal, my emotions lies with accord and RS!
however emotions are subjective to different individuals and hence we should be careful with emotions of others. Some people might have an emotional attachement with corolla and some with Sx4.
Quote:
Are we? Most of the comments on T-Bhp are that the SX4 is in a lower segment - here is a premium alternative a.ka. cedia / corolla. I beleive you have done this inadvertantly through your post as well.
well i was pointing at this thread but i agree with you that not many would like to compare SX4 with premium segment cars like corolla/cedia/civic etc.
But having said that people at T-Bhp and as a matter of fact people around India cant be blamed for this behaviour, its the packaging of SX4 by maruti which is to be blamed, i mean with an engine of 1.6L its really hard to put it in the category of corolla/cedia etc. and the most interesting fact is that in terms of physical dimensions SX4 is at par with corolla/cedia infact its few mm wider than corolla but still maruti has not projected this vehicle in a right way. You know i get this feeling that instead of properly marketing this product they are trying to push it for sales and in the process they have messed the packaging of this product which deserved to be in a higher segment.
Quote:
I agree with you. Why should Suzuki blame its competitors - maybe they should blame their roots - they started with the 800 which was the peoples car and the stigma has been with them ever since. I find it funny that TKM started with the Qualis, a muv taxi for all intensive purposes and is now considered a premium product in India that commands premium pricing. Thats what a commitment to quality and great marketing can do and TKM do this best. Also the Corolla has some aspirational value - it breaks the Million rupee marker and lets face it, us Indians have some pretty rigid pre-conceived notions. I dont have numbers but if someone surveyed NRIs in the US - I would strongly you that the Toyota Corolla, Toyota Camry and Lexus ES would top the charts (Look at my presupposition here ). This influences buying descions to an extent as we tend to ape success and for many years Sushila Aunty Ki Bhai ka Bada Ladka Amrika mein engineer hein or usne Karollla kharida dictated success (Though this is changing for the better now! And how!).
Totally Agreed again!
When toyota started with qualis, it was a very competitive product keeping in mind the type of vehicles we had in India at that time. The other advantage which Toyota gained was that qualis had a mass appeal and a wider reach and this helped toyota to make its presence felt in indian market at a very early stage.
Quote:
I agree with you 100%. But this isn't Maruti - this is Suzuki. Globally their range was not as strong as Honda and Toyota. Things are improving now and its great to see India getting all global models and Suzuki itslef is moving up the aspirational chain.
I think the SX-4 is one product that is in the forefront of Suzuki's global revamp - It is a true competitor to the Corolla / Cedia / Elantra and Civic and the value is fantastic. I mean because of localization / tax cuts / smaller engine - it is undercutting the competition by 20% if not more.
And to achieve what suzuki wants, they must extend their product line in premium segment in India. Its high time they should do it.
but unfortunately in india suzuki comes along with tag attached to it-maruti
Quote:
Let me ask you this - If they had brought the 2.0L engine and had priced it at 10 L - would we even have this conversation? It would have resulted in fan boys proclaiming that the SX4 is Marutis first True blue premium sedan but this would have also resulted in this car dying a quick and fast death - because of stigmas and pre-conceptions.

What you are stating is a flawed syllogism.

No we would not be having this conversation in that case
what maruti or suzuki should have done is that they should have released the same car which they have in US for the premium segment in india along with the present car which we have in the current segment. This would have given the SX4 a premium feel and recognition in premium segment and thus it would have attracted more buyers from the premium segment also. But if we consider the current scenario the SX4 has been completely isolated from the segment where it deserves to be! and thus people understandably make no comparisons with corolla/cedia etc and thus they are not be blamed. Blame the 'maruti' suzuki.
there are so many people who buy a particular car just because it has more snob value or gives a better style statement and they cant be blamed for this as it gives them an ego boost-afterall whats an harm in that!..you and i would do the same!
And thus i feel that by offering a particular version of SX4 which in terms of price and features is at par with premium segment, will change the perception of indian customers towards sx4 as they will have a feeling that they are investing in a premium expensive car. But maruti has blundered by downgrading sx4 and isolating it completely from the premium segment inspite of the fact that its roots belong to premium segment and thus we are having this discussion. And that is why i came up with an earlier post because you reacted to certain individuals, buddy why blame them? blame maruti..those individuals are absolutely right in their behaviour towards sx4 as how many individuals are there in india who are aware of this fact that sX4 is actually comparable to corolla/cedia going by international standards. Customers arent self educated about a particular product, maruti has to educate their customers properly by making the right moves and decisions. Produce the facts which you have covered in your earlier post to maruti people and not us 'the lesser mortals' and yeah tell them the apples and peaches story!
Quote:
My friend - the data indicates one thing and one thing only - The Cars in both countries are the same. Every country will have different engine options / saftey options / feature set etc but the car is the same. This is most prevalent between similar models sold in the US and Europe. Look at a car like the Mazda 6 in both countries - same cars but in the US top of the line engine is 3.0L V6 and in Europe it is a 2.0L 4cyl but it still competes with the Accord and Camry.
thank you my friend- i must say before your facts post i was not completely aware of the true capabilities of the sx4-blame it on the kind of exposure i have had through maruti suzuki marketing and products
Quote:
Purpose of the chart is to showcase competition and nothing else. And while we're on this the US SX4 and Indian SX4 are might similar barring powertrain. a fully loaded Zxi here with leather and all options including sport kit will look eirely similar. Off the top of my head this is what the US SX4 has over the Indian one - Bigger engine / side Airbags / 17" wheels / bigger brakes / lowered suspension and thats about it. All else should remain the same - ABS / Front Airbags / Climate Control / EBD / etc.
it also has cruise control, multifunctional display for eg TPM, better audio system, options for automatic transmission, optional ESP and TCS and pretensioner belts(i'm not sure if that is in india)
so if we would have coupled all these features it would have made up a teriffic premium car and would have done a lot to change the perception of indian customers.
Quote:
I agree - the rear bench is narrower than the Corolla and will be more uncomfortable for 5 adults. If Vishesh would require 5 ppl to be sitting in the car - the Corolla it is or better yet - An Innova. So lets not get nit picky on rear 4 vs. 5 passengers. Look at the car as a complete package.
Point taken.
although i was just referring to one of the factors which could favour cedia or corolla though my intention was to look at the complete package.
Quote:
Spot on - If it is pseudo snob value that is being looked at - forget the SX4 - it will never get the ooohs and aaahs from friends and neighbors.
But again the car as a complete package is better value than the base Corolla.
i would have loved to agree but alas the snob value which makes some people go to extremes. Basic corolla is absolutely not a wise buy if snob value is not important and i guess it can serve well as a cab.
Quote:
I have stated this before in all my previous posts - stop focusing on the engine. That is not the point of my comparision.

Interior dimensions are virtually the same and there can be no argument against cold hard facts. The SX4 has more leg room. Look at that charst carefully. Yes the Corolla is 4 inches longer in wheelbase but the SX4 has roomier interiors and more space as a whole.
buddy before posting my views i did not go through the posts which you made after so if i sounded too pushy on the engine point-accept my apologies.
the point i made for legroom was because of the fact that there are few people who have issues with the legroom provided in sx4 but for corolla i've never heard any kind of legroom issues. Though whatever you are saying might be true.
Quote:
Where in India would you use cruise control? 75% of the time - you are trying to avoid cows and errant autorickshaws. CC would be more of a pain than a boon on our roads. Technology does not mean gadgets and gizmos. It is a term defining every aspect of the car - saftey / bulid process / efficiency / performance etc. A technological feature in the SX4 would be fly-by-wire throtle control or EBD. Even the top end corolla does not have this.
its not about indians using cruise control, it is about providing features which will give certain product, a premium feel or better value. But as i said earlier also, US SX4 could be or rather is more technlogically superior than corolla but here in india, technology cannot be a deciding factor between toyota and sx4 because here they both are more or less same in terms of technology as both are safe, well built and give decent performance. So we cant suggest someone SX4 just because the US sx4 is technolgocally superior than corolla.
Quote:
What does contemporary have to do with sales? the Maruit Alto is India's largest seller - does that mean that it is contemporary? Hats off to Toyota for producing a model that sells the most through out the world - They are clearly doing something right - but sales are a result of many factors including having the most value in the western countries where it is an econobox - but there is a paradigm shift with Mazda and Suzuki and Mitsubishi coming into the fray. And like I said the car is old and if they dont change the model now (which they are) then do you think they will hold on to that title for long. The new civic would be more than happy to take that position. So being contemproray is a big factor.
well by being contemporary i meant to look it at a general way. By mentioning about corolla's feat i wanted to reflect its ability to cater to the needs of diverse and different kinds of customers all through out the world and its like 'been there, done that' kind of a feeling and sx4 still has to achieve on that front and that was my contemporary way to put at it.
Quote:
Why the Cedia and not the Civic. Oh wait - that another bag of worms
oh pleaseee dont mention civic as i have my emotions attached to that vehicle too!
the only reason i dint mention civic was because its way out of budget and cedia seems to suit his budget well.
ashish22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2007, 21:16   #44
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bangalore / Manila
Posts: 121
Thanked: Once
Default

Vishesh,

Just t.d. cedia and make up your mind. I drive cedia and find it a great car for its price. Absolute v.f.m. and yes it does give you that snob value as every tom, dick and harry is not buying it. Well, Sx4 is a good car too but will never give you that snob value. If you are spending north of 8 lacs, you want some of it.

I am not talking about the features and the capability of cedia as there is more than enough information here. Just simply test drive and you would not think of Sx4, corolla or for that matter even civic.
Chat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd November 2007, 18:19   #45
BHPian
 
vibzez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: N. Delhi
Posts: 98
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Also, please do consider After sales service. Now buying a car is one thing, getting it serviced and well cared for is another. I know a few people who out of following their heart buy a really expensive piece of machinery, but when over a period of time, some expensive parts need replacement; back out and cringe at their decisions.
Part for part, it would be more expensive to maintain a Cedia or a Corolla, in comparison to a Maruti. Availability of parts, price of components, easy accessibility and close proximity of service stations; all have a very important role in final customer satisfaction. I think most of us would agree that the Indian versions of vehicles that are available to us, even a generation old Corolla or the new Cedia are somewhat superior machines to the SX4. BUT are they a more "sensible" buy? That can really be answered buy the guy with the $$$, and how far is he willing to forgive for better machinery.
vibzez is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SX4 Zxi or ANHC? EDIT : Bought SX4! abhi182 Sedans 153 21st December 2009 15:54
Swift to SX4 - Booking a Black SX4 Zxi - Some queries on Pg3 joy_swift Sedans 68 28th August 2009 16:08
All new Corolla coming soon EDIT: Corolla Altis now Launched extreme_torque The Indian Car Scene 295 19th September 2008 23:48
Corolla Executive or SX4 Zxi aseem Sedans 50 15th May 2007 23:12
swift (zxi/vxi) is zxi vfm? karty_83 Hatchbacks 30 10th May 2007 14:32


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 03:11.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks