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Old 15th December 2007, 20:23   #16
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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Life is not always about BHP and top speed.
You can compromise top speed but not safety... Most of the people thinking in city [not honda city] no safety features required. No accidents happening in City? my friend's uncle Got serious Head injuries [more than 3 months in Coma and dead after that] in an accident happened near Chennai airport, he was travelling around 40 kmph only. But unfortunately a water tanker's sudden brake did not stop his Honda City.. A air bag could have saved his life.........

So please note the point that "Even city commuting too requires safety"
do not neglect it.
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Old 15th December 2007, 20:28   #17
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Sigh....guys please dont turn the thread into a NHC `vs` SX4 thread.!!
Try to help the thread starter in making a decision.

@yousivakutti - TD both the cars ,see which car is within your budget and requirement`s ,consult your family members and then make a decision.

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which is the best car to keep next 6 to 7 Years in terms of FE, low maintenance, good service network, comfort and etc
Considering these requirement`s i would suggest the NHC. (this is just my personal opinion)

Last edited by faithless_1984 : 15th December 2007 at 20:29.
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Old 15th December 2007, 20:31   #18
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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Skinny 175s.Just because you are comparing it with the wider track of the 205s does not make the 175s skinny.Look at the esteems best upsize size.Its 175/70/R13 and has awesome grip with it and esteem is even more powerful than the honda citys 77bhp.
So for a 77bhp 175 track is not skinny.Offcourse u can upsize for more grip but 175s are good enough IMO
I never knew tyres sizes are calculated from bhp figures!

Honda City does not provide ABS (Except for VTec version) and it does have braking issues during emergency braking (Read magazine reports, ACI helpline and team-bhp threads for the same). Better tyres could only have helped. However, for a 'FE- centric' car like the NHC, they have decided to stick to 175s.

A honda city with 77 bhp is capable of 177 kmph (as you have mentioned). So, it doesnt matter whether it has more/less bhp than SX4, better tyres could always improve the vehicle manners.

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Old 15th December 2007, 20:37   #19
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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
I never knew tyres sizes are calculated from bhp figures!

Honda City does not provide ABS (Except for VTec version) and it does have braking issues during emergency braking (Read magazine reports, ACI helpline and team-bhp threads for the same). Better tyres could only have helped. However, for a 'FE- centric' car like the NHC, they have decided to stick to 175s.

A honda city with 77 bhp is capable of 177 kmph (as you have mentioned). So, it doesnt matter whether it has more/less bhp than SX4, better tyres could always improve the vehicle manners.

Aree i meant 85 bhp esteem ke liye 175 ka tyre toh 77bhp honda city ke liye 175 ka tyre is perfect.Comparo.
Yeah honda city has braking issues agreed but on the same side sx4 is not problem free too na?Clutch problems,9 and 10 mileage
Anyway test drive and decide for yourself
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Old 15th December 2007, 21:05   #20
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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
I m not a NHC fan.I m a maruti loyalist but got to say.The quality of NHC is light years ahead compared to the quality of SX4.
Well, I wouldn't say light years, but agreed that NHC is certainly a refined product, but knowing the fact that it’s been in India's roads for more than 5-6 years, the refinement could get better. For instance, just a minor scratch or bump on the NHC side, and you will notice a wide body area being pushed inwards. If that is not due to thin metal plate and hollow space, what else can be other attributes? Having said, the build of SX4 is not exemplary, but it’s definitely better than average - something we call acceptable.

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Check out the engine refinement for yourself. Life is not always about BHP and top speed.
Exactly my friend. But BHP and speed are the nerves of the car. They always come to play with the car overall stance.

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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Anway since you have spoken about top speeds.Do u actually know how much the difference in top speeds is?its a mere 2 km.SX4 is 179 and honda city with its 77 bhp engine is 177kmph.
Rev both the engines to high rpms and the harshness of the SX4 engine is not likable whereas the city engine is a gem of its kinds.
First of all, I never mentioned about top speed. Secondly, having more BHP does not necessarily translate to having more readings in kmph. The main advantage of having more horses is the added extra power/torque to pull the car in variable speed/gear. If you have driven on highways, you will be synonym with that. With regards to the harshness in higher RPM, that does not necessarily make the engine obsolete. For the matter of fact, the harshness translates to a feel of the engine. For some, its music to ears (ask any rally enthusiast), while for others, it’s annoying. But how often one drive the car more than 5000 rpm? And below 5K rpm, the engine is as smooth as iDSI and is equally a gem if not more.

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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Mileage-Again the City wins
Technically, City never won at the first place. With a kerb weight of 1055 kgs, 14 inch narrow tyre, 77 bhp, no climatronic, the mileage should be significantly more compared to SX4 ZXi which is 1200 kgs, 16 inch wide tyres, 102 bhp, with climatronics. But a SX4 Zxi gives around 12-13 kmpl in city condition with 90% AC, whereas, NHC Gxi, under the condition, leads by a mere 1-2 kms. In fact, SX4 Zxi technically, gives a better FE w.r.t the fuel guzzling factors of the car as mentioned.

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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Well if u want awesome quality in whatever u get go for the honda city
If u want quanity - minus the awesome quality go for the SX4
Awesome quality of what? for those thin metal plates waiting to be pushed inwards? for the those extra storage compartments in the dashboard? for a perceived higher mileage from an engine that even a Santro can call it a day? for those notorious Honda dealers and workshops that make one's pocket run dry on repair and servicing? For those thin rubber flaps that hang loose by a single screw after a long trip? So much for the awesome quality and the premium people pay for NHC.
The fact is, NHC (not Jazz) is a ripped off product, at least in India. If it would have been a great piece of work (as most people in India made it out to be), it would been introduced in Europe, US, Canda, Australia selling millions. But it is not the case and knowing Honda, it carefully studies the market, and the fact is Honda knows that NHC in its current avatar is not fit for these countries. Now take the example of SX4. The hatch was initially launched in Europe and then to US, Canada, Australia. Now the SX4 sedan, is recently launched in China, India, US, Canada, Australia, NZ. Morever, SX4 getting entry to the WRC. My point is, NHC is a product that is being engineered/packaged to sum up sales for Honda, in regions where snob value and premium tag tranforms people into ignorant and blind clients.

Last edited by iTNerd : 15th December 2007 at 21:11.
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Old 15th December 2007, 21:10   #21
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let us be neutral in all aspects,we will think of all the factors and weightage can be put according to our preferences.
sx4-more loaded ,more safety features like abs ebd airbag,more luxury like climate control,stearing controls for stereo,less refined than city,lesser mileage than city,better A.S.S.lower cost of maintenence,lesser cost.
city-better refinement,better mileage,snob value.
lets consider the better mileage part-diiference in mileage per litre would be 2-3 kms.sx4 returns 14 kms at my place and city is returning 17 kms.so running cost per km for sx4 @ 47rs for petrol would be 3.35 rs per km.for city would be 2.76 rs per km.diff is 0.59 rs .the price diff of 60000 rs of city would be enough for the sx4 to travel about 18000 kms.difference in cost of maintenence of city and sx4 would be enough for balancing the running cost per km difference of 59 paise.all the extra features of sx4 is a bonus.
ram
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Old 15th December 2007, 21:37   #22
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Its very simple:

Decide if you need quality luxury Sedan (NHC) or Sedan with loaded features(SX4).

SX4 fully loaded offers lot of features and NHC offers luxury class feel.

Sit in front seat and also back seat and look at exteriors and interiors and you can decide your taste.

Ball is in your court and TD to decide yourself.

My suggestion NHC because its ideal sedan for family (true 5 seator) and City use.

Ravi.
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Old 15th December 2007, 21:48   #23
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I would recommend the SX4 ZXi purely on what it offers. The interiors look better than the NHC and it is more fun to drive than the NHC GXi. Features wise the SX4 is generations ahead. The City is gonna be discontinued soon. So that is one more point you need to consider as you are planning to keep it for long. I was in the same situation as you and I bought the SX4. Last but not least take a test drive with your family and compare both cars. Buy the one which you and your family loves.
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Old 15th December 2007, 22:35   #24
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I knew the minute this thread started that its gonna be a NHC Vs SX4 fight all the way.. I have stated this in another thread as well, please dont bombard Honda or the NHC just because of its high price. The fact that it has been around for so many years, and is widely loved as a status symbol (Snob value if you wanna be blunt), speaks for itself.
And oh yes, I do own an NHC, so will support it, irrespective of what any other manufacturer offers. I love the reactions I get from people when I tell them I own a Honda as against the fact that I own something else.

And the competitor for the NHC is amongst all, a product from the stable of a Government owned company which continued with its bread and butter model (read 800) for close to 3 decades and still is not willing to phase it out for something new. Look at the esteem (erstwhile 1000) which was largely unchanged for over 1.5 decades? Im sure we can expect the same SX4 with a modified headlight 20 years from now, but the Honda city would have undergone 10 modifications by then. An earlier thread mentions that the NHC is gonna be phased out next year. What do we have? 4 modifications to the City in the past 10 years? Doesnt that say something about the progressive outlook of Honda?

And another thing, two different opinions can exist in this world. If this thread turns into a debate, then the initiator of this will not be able to get conclusive answers/ suggestions. Only many NHC -Haters/ SX4 supporters pouncing on a few NHC owners.
And a smiley after the post does not necessarily subdue the seriousness of the accusations/ sarcastic statements made in the post...
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Old 15th December 2007, 22:40   #25
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NHC offers diesel-like torque in a petrol car. So even though its 1000 odd Kgs, it can pull like any other & even better and still gives good FE. So if you drive NHC, you can never make out its just 77BHP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iTNerd View Post
First of all, I never mentioned about top speed. Secondly, having more BHP does not necessarily translate to having more readings in kmph. The main advantage of having more horses is the added extra power/torque to pull the car in variable speed/gear. If you have driven on highways, you will be synonym with that.
. By the same logic, technically, you can simulate ABS action manually in NHC and so this advantage if SX4 is nullified.
Quote:
In fact, SX4 Zxi technically, gives a better FE w.r.t the fuel guzzling factors of the car as mentioned.
As long as the occupants are safe why worry about the thickness of metal sheet? Comparing to Santro? Let me tell you, if you plonk Santro's engine in NHC, it won't pull beyond 10Kmph. Its the amazing I-DSI engine which does its job.
Quote:
Awesome quality of what? for those thin metal plates waiting to be pushed inwards? for the those extra storage compartments in the dashboard? for a perceived higher mileage from an engine that even a Santro can call it a day?
Repairs, rupper flaps hang loose??? Well, all I can say is you should learn about NHC before commenting.
Quote:
for those notorious Honda dealers and workshops that make one's pocket run dry on repair and servicing? For those thin rubber flaps that hang loose by a single screw after a long trip? So much for the awesome quality and the premium people pay for NHC.
NHC is a world product. Its is sold world across world in Sedan/Hatchback forms with names such as City, Aria-Fit, Jazz. Check out the Japanese Honda site: フィット アリア | 4つの上質
Except that GC of NHC in Japan is 150mm, there is not difference between Indian NHC & Japanese NHC. BTW, NHC & its variants have sold more than 2 million units since launch. Again, you have to find out more info about NHC before commenting.
Quote:
The fact is, NHC (not Jazz) is a ripped off product, at least in India. If it would have been a great piece of work (as most people in India made it out to be), it would been introduced in Europe, US, Canda, Australia selling millions.
NHC is successful in the market - it has won in people's court. It has won people's heart too and they are willing to pay for NHC for the feel & experience. Even if a 3star hotel room is bigger, it can't be compared to a 5star one.
Quote:
My point is, NHC is a product that is being engineered/packaged to sum up sales for Honda, in regions where snob value and premium tag tranforms people into ignorant and blind clients.
Now tell me who is blind & ignorant
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Old 16th December 2007, 00:35   #26
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Originally Posted by hrman View Post
And a smiley after the post does not necessarily subdue the seriousness of the accusations/ sarcastic statements made in the post...
Congrats on the NHC!
I guess that would be directed at me, as i couldn't find anyone else posting like that.
Can i ask you sir, what was the sarcastic statement i made? If any statement i have made is wrong, point it out. I'll be happy to correct myself.
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Originally Posted by hrman View Post
Doesnt that say something about the progressive outlook of Honda?
Honda- As a manufacturer has got a big place here in team-bhp. The most famous cars here includes the OHC Vtec, Civic, Accord and the likes.
However, in the case of City, opinions differ, and that is with good reason. So, its not Honda that is questioned, Its NHC. As for me, I still believe its an overpriced product without features of its class. And i still dont see any valid comments here proving otherwise.
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Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
NHC offers diesel-like torque in a petrol car.
Power- NHC 77bhp, SX4 102 bhp
Torque- NHC- 12.8 kgm, SX4 14.5 kgm.
0-100 figures- NHC 13.11s, SX4 12.10s


SX4 is ahead, be it torque or power. NHC will be better in FE though!
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Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
By the same logic, technically, you can simulate ABS action manually in NHC and so this advantage if SX4 is nullified.
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Old 16th December 2007, 00:52   #27
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NHC offers diesel-like torque in a petrol car. So even though its 1000 odd Kgs, it can pull like any other & even better and still gives good FE. So if you drive NHC, you can never make out its just 77BHP.
Plunk in 4 adults and some laguage, and try that in your car to experience it first hand! Most owners (I drive a company owned too often apart from my white SX4 Zxi ) will tell you how sluggish it is making the 77 bhp engine to deliver. One need to floor the accelerator deep to make it go with that kind of load. If you are aware of it, then don't be shy admitting it. That won't do any harm to your status, and by admitting certainly possible that Honda guys are listening and with feedbacks, will produce a better new city that is gonna come soon.

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By the same logic, technically, you can simulate ABS action manually in NHC and so this advantage if SX4 is nullified.
You wish. How lame is your logic?

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Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
As long as the occupants are safe why worry about the thickness of metal sheet? Comparing to Santro? Let me tell you, if you plonk Santro's engine in NHC, it won't pull beyond 10Kmph. Its the amazing I-DSI engine which does its job.
Oh really! How are the occupant safe at the first place without ABS/EBD, Airbags, Pre-tensioner seat belts? Add to that, the thin metal sheet? I would term it, you are ridding a coffin. sorry to say. Inspite of spending a high premium, your live is still at stake, especially in India's roads! I feel pity on people with that kind of mindset! It takes just a second to have an unfortunate accident and ruining life, family. Hope luck and some prayer make you safe. I don't want to say that, but after reading your comment, I thought you should take a pinch of salt to what you said!

Lot of money and research had been taken in past decades for producing a minimum safety car and most western countries run safety benchmark on new cars before they can be launched. Now, with so many accidents reported in the newspapers in Indian roads, if you don't have one iota of responsible and sense, then, its a sorry state. The irony is that, Honda, a company of high repute and fame worldwide, had been taking this very safety ignorance state to its own advantage and the result everyone knows. This is NOT a responsible car maker in Indian Context.

Now they have introduced safety features in VTEC plus. Supposed, if SX4 was not launched at all, will that be a distinct possibility? Certainly NO. The highly priced VTEC plus was simply launched to reinforce and provide much needed breathing space to their existing non-plus variants that lack safety features. So much for the quote in Honda's website.
"The City ZX is built keeping in mind absolute, overall safety.... given that safety is a word taken very, very seriously at Honda. The safety factor of Honda cars is the result of constant efforts to make life less unpredictable."

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Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
Repairs, rupper flaps hang loose??? Well, all I can say is you should learn about NHC before commenting.
Well, I had my share of experience with cars including a NHC.. Please refer to dealership thread for owner's woes with Honda's workshop and dealers... and that's why I am commenting on the ground facts so that prospective buyers can have an informed, unbaised decision to have their dream car. BTW your mud flaps were already been loose and lost on one of your journey. Ask any SX4 owners, if they are aware of mud flap hanging loose? In fact, Zxi owners will tell you how the mud flaps are as much as part of the car body.


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Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
NHC is a world product. Its is sold world across world in Sedan/Hatchback forms with names such as City, Aria-Fit, Jazz. Check out the Japanese Honda site: ƒtƒBƒbƒg ƒAƒŠƒA | 4‚‚̏㎿
NHC was/is never a world product. The hatch, Jazz (from which NHC is re-incarnated) is sold worldwide. Jazz and NHC are totally different product. NHC is only sold in Japan (as Aria), Taiwan, Phillipiness, Turkey, Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, Sri-Lanka, Pakistan etc. It is not even purely an Asian car. It was never sold in Europe, US, Canada, South America, Australia, New Zealand, China, Korea etc. So where does it got the title of a world product? I was in Sydney for 2 yrs, and San Deigo 6 months. Never saw even a single NHC. To get your fact straight, take sometime to google up for confirmation to feed your unrelenting brain some facts about your car before mulling great raves about your NHC and rudiculing other fellow members.

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Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
NHC is successful in the market - it has won in people's court. It has won people's heart too and they are willing to pay for NHC for the feel & experience. Even if a 3star hotel room is bigger, it can't be compared to a 5star one.
Appears more like a Honda salesman than an owner. Seriously I am loving every bit of your assumption and comparison with regards to Indian NHC cheers: . And astonishingly, there are many takers for it just like you, thanks to Honda's marketing team in imparting a snob value out of a barebones car with a high premium tag. If it would have been the Thai version, the current price is well justified and I would have praised Honda for a great product.

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Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
Now tell me who is blind & ignorant
You kinda made it apparent that its you. And if we are the jury, of course, we agree with you.

Last edited by iTNerd : 16th December 2007 at 00:53.
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Old 16th December 2007, 01:18   #28
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Aree i meant 85 bhp esteem ke liye 175 ka tyre toh 77bhp honda city ke liye 175 ka tyre is perfect.
Considering this fact, i would say that tires in the Civic are inadequate, since SX4 comes on 205s, wheras the Civic with almost 30more bhp comes with 195s?

Quote:
BTW, NHC & its variants have sold more than 2 million units since launch. Again, you have to find out more info about NHC before commenting.
So what, SX4 is also sold world wide. I have asked you this question many times before also and asking again, Do you work for Honda or Do they give you commission for every NHC sold or Have you bought shares of Honda? I hope you have the courage to answer my queries.

Quote:
NHC offers diesel-like torque in a petrol car.
Here is a deal, lets have a straight line 1km race, with me in a Swift Diesel(the smallest diesel engine car sold in India) against you in a NHC and both of us will shift at 2000RPM, then we will know how the hell does NHC have diesel like torque. All diesel cars sold in the country have much much more torque then the NHC.

Quote:
you can simulate ABS action manually in NHC and so this advantage if SX4 is nullified.
Just call Bernie Eccelstone to ban ABS in F1 cars so that they canmanually stimulate ABS, dude if you have no clue dont talk for the sake of it.

Quote:
Now tell me who is blind & ignorant
He

Quote:
Well, all I can say is you should learn about NHC before commenting.
All the students on board, there is a new subject to learn about "NHC"

Quote:
Its the amazing I-DSI engine which does its job.
No wonder it is being phased out in the next City.

Please stop being obssessed about the NHC, there is more to life and team-bhp then a car with a puny engine and obesity.

Quote:
given that safety is a word taken very, very seriously at Honda.
Safety is paramount butttt Only for Vtec owners, according to Honda.

And people who think Honda quality is fantastic take a look at new Citys and Accords, Honda quality is not what it used to be.

@ Thread Started - Buy the SX4 ZXi, no point in buying a car which is going to be phased out in the next 7 months.

Last edited by BUSA : 16th December 2007 at 01:19.
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Old 16th December 2007, 01:49   #29
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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Anway since you have spoken about top speeds.Do u actually know how much the difference in top speeds is?its a mere 2 km.SX4 is 179 and honda city with its 77 bhp engine is 177kmph.
it is not only about top speed, it is the time required to reach that speed. you can pretty well judge yourself which one takes lesser time to reach those speeds.
anyway, I dont like the shape o both the cars bu SX4 is better vfm than honda and will be cheaper to maintain in the long run since its a maruti.
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Old 16th December 2007, 01:58   #30
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Great job guys....the thread starter must be so relieved now that we have jointly helped him in making a decision.

But if your still confused yousivakutti then just go ahead and buy any of the other Forum favs...baleno/palio/swift/ohc etc.


Cheers.
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