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Old 19th March 2008, 00:54   #46
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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
I guess considering the things you've mentioned, i guess there are two types of VFM at stake here

short term VFM ie how much you're going to get for the money you're paying now

and

long term vfm ie , if it is worth it in the long run

the former, the indica wins in all segments.

the latter , is really a personal thing- how much you're going to run the car every month, how carefully you treat the car etc.
You summed it up very well greenhorn. I got it.

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Similarly, build quality, from your assesment seems to be of two types- the visual build quality - how well you car appears to be put together. In that aspect, the indica is a bit behind , apparently. People speak of imperfect shutlines etc. Me , it really doesnt matter
Quite true. Somehow I liked Indica's bodyline and overall look better than any maruti car in that segment. Last winter I was in India. I missed my train frm Kanpur to Delhi. I had to go to Delhi, so I opted for a hired car. I was driven by an Indica from Kanpur to Delhi at night. I am 5'8", yet I slept well on the backseat of that 'tiny' Indica. Except near Etwah, I felt very little jerk in that 10-11 hrs. journey. From that day onwards, I began suspecting all the rumors about the bad build quality of Indica.

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The second type of build quality is how well the car feels to be put together- the way the doors shut, the way it goes over potholes, the way it feels when you sit in it and drive.
For me , the indica satisfies the latter criteria
Great! I missed that point. Most of the cars in this segment can not give that sweet thud of a door shut. I don't want that too.

As I said in the previous para, I found that indica handles the rough road very efficiently. I liked Indigo's driving position. I didn't try indica yet.

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PS: to appreciate the turbo, you really need to rip the car- i doubt if they will let you do that :(

If you know someone who has a turbo/indigo TDi, ask them for a highway drive. It would be better if they demonstrate it to you - the turbo kicking in
Your sig. shows you are a proud owner such indica diesel . I could locate the thread dedicated to the review of your car. Do you have any thread where you have discussed how you zeroed in on indica?

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from your requirements , i think the logan, indica/indigo and the aveo/aveo UVA should be the cars you should be looking at
GM cars are strict no-no for me. Though I liked logan, its top-end variants are little bit beyond my budget. The lowest variant GL doesn't even have a power steering.
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Old 19th March 2008, 20:10   #47
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i think you should go for the aveo or fiesta.. they both are new and very good cars.. fiesta is a better car to drive and aveo is good vfm it does everythg good.. and if you can increase your budget then verna , city and sx4 are good options as well.. fabia is also a good option but it is little overpriced..
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Old 19th March 2008, 22:52   #48
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Logan is available in Allahabad (check mahindrarenault.com) and looking at your points I would suggest you to buy Logan 1.5 DLX (Diesel). You may read my long term review and feel free to ask anything:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...6500-km-s.html
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Old 19th March 2008, 23:33   #49
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Originally Posted by aks316 View Post
i think you should go for the aveo or fiesta.. they both are new and very good cars.. fiesta is a better car to drive and aveo is good vfm it does everythg good.. and if you can increase your budget then verna , city and sx4 are good options as well.. fabia is also a good option but it is little overpriced..
I don't think u'd get either one for 6lac OTR.
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Old 20th March 2008, 14:32   #50
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the on road price of aveo base model is 6.50L delhi and with discount it will be around 6.20L.. i dont know about his place..
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Old 20th March 2008, 17:48   #51
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the on road price of aveo base model is 6.50L delhi and with discount it will be around 6.20L.. i dont know about his place..
aks316 and JayD, thank you both for your feedback. The title of the thread is little bit misleading now. If you go through my big post on page 4 I have reduced my budget to 4.5-4.7L OTR due to some personal problem. So the choice is now very much limited.

Since there had been lot of discussion in this forum about cars in this price range, I am not sure whether the mod. will lock this thread. However, I have some specific points in my mind which I discussed previously and in the big post on page 4. So I would request mod. to be considerate with me.

Today, I Td'ed the fiat palio stile 1.1 SL. Many people in this thread has suggested me to take a test drive of this car. So I kept it in my shortlist. Thanks to all of you who have suggested this car. I am very much impressed with it. It somehow forces me to book a vehicle within a few days. I am facing the problem of elimination. Which car should I go for and why?

The built quality od palio is absolutely superb. No car in this price range has such a bulit quality. The sweet door "thud", I was discussing in the previous post and missing in other car from maruti, hyundai and tata, is very much present in this car. Somebody in this forum said that it is built like a tank. I really think so. I liked the engine -- smooth and almost silent. I drove few kilometers on a bi-lane highway. I found the gearshift is a bit hard. I had trouble shifting gear from 5th to 4th. The suspension was good, as we drove past really bad roads full of potholes. The interior looks nice and decent. There are ample space inside. Quality of the plastic looks good in this price range. Boot space definitely is not as large as Indigo CS, but quite roomy. I liked its look from front and rear. The price tag is sweet. The dealer is ready to give a 20K cash + 4K corporate discount.

Based on the criteria given in my previous post and this one, I badly need some feedbacks from fellow BHPians. I have shortlisted the following cars :

1. Fialt Palio 1.1 SLE
2. Indigo CS
3. Hyundai i10

A. Which one should I go for and why? Kindly give your reasons.
B. Between i10 and palio which one I should go for?
C. Between Indigo CS and palio which one should I go for?
D. What is rough mileage of palio?


I need some feedback from palio owners in this forum. Is there any way to find which members which cars?
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Old 20th March 2008, 19:54   #52
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A. Which one should I go for and why? Kindly give your reasons.
B. Between i10 and palio which one I should go for?
C. Between Indigo CS and palio which one should I go for?
You have TD'ed all the above cars and made your observations and know your requirements but sorry and it seems silly that you should ask the people here the questions above. How can anybody decide which car you need to buy . It is such a ridiculous question to ask someone to convince you to make a decision for you. You asked for opinions and you got it but dude its your money and your car so decide what you want and go for it.

cheers,
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Old 20th March 2008, 20:21   #53
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Originally Posted by crosscap View Post
Your sig. shows you are a proud owner such indica diesel . I could locate the thread dedicated to the review of your car. Do you have any thread where you have discussed how you zeroed in on indica?
Quite simple really, Dad wanted a WagonR Duo, and I wanted the Indica.
Between us , the WagonR was winning , until Dad decided to actually drive both cars - the driving school (yes , both me + dad were learning to drive only then ) had an indica DLS and a WagonR running on LPG. Our home is on an incline , and dad needed a lot of half clutching and handbraking with the WagonR to park into our gate- with the indica , he had no such trouble. the car started moving by itself at idle revs . He also felt that the Wagon R's A pillar reduced visiblity

Add to that the indica's ruggednes, and the gurujis here recommended the indica for ICE'ing ( still not done yet :-( )

the stile is good VFM in the short term. but do consider the long term as well. Already , parts are in short supply and/or expensive, while tata parts are porbably available everywhere . I wouldnt buy a stile 1.1. a 1.6 or a 1.3MJD, maybe , but definitely not a 1.1

regarding the i10 vs indigo CS, its a question of quantity vs quality. Choose your priorities

Disclaimer: having said all this, there seem to be more lemons among tata cars ( i guess because they sell more) Some members here, especially early buyers got some bad ones. I was aware that buying/owning a tata is a small gamble. I'm happy that I've been winning at it so far. But I wont be held responsible for this advice - it's given as is :-)

Last edited by greenhorn : 20th March 2008 at 20:38.
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Old 20th March 2008, 23:43   #54
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out of the three choices i think as a car palio is better as it has better build more safe comfortable good ride and handling but the problem is the engine it is sluggish and i dont know how good or bad the aftersales service is so cant comment on that and resale value is also a suspect.. if you really want to go for palio then go for the diesel version it is much better much faster better engine and it will have better resale.. and i think you should take a look at aveo UVA it is solid comfortable good ride & handling very spacious decent mileage and performance and right now there is a scheme going that for 3 years service and maintainance is free which includes clutch parts, brake pads & all you just have to pay for the fuel the on road price of aveo uva is 4.28-5.30.. tc.
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Old 20th March 2008, 23:54   #55
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Originally Posted by zaks View Post
You have TD'ed all the above cars and made your observations and know your requirements but sorry and it seems silly that you should ask the people here the questions above. How can anybody decide which car you need to buy . It is such a ridiculous question to ask someone to convince you to make a decision for you. You asked for opinions and you got it but dude its your money and your car so decide what you want and go for it.

cheers,
zaks, you perhaps missed the point. It's my money, I test drove all three of the cars, that's true. But i still don't own one. My questions are directed to owners and experts alike in this forum. If you go through the posts in this forum, many people in the past has asked such questions. I think no question is silly for a newbie purchasing his first car on on Indian road. One day you will make up your mind on some cars and ask for people's opinion here. Won't you?
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Old 20th March 2008, 23:56   #56
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Logan is available in Allahabad (check mahindrarenault.com) and looking at your points I would suggest you to buy Logan 1.5 DLX (Diesel). You may read my long term review and feel free to ask anything:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...6500-km-s.html
You are quite right ezee, thank you. I checked it myself last night. Few months back there was no dealer for logan in Alld.
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Old 21st March 2008, 00:06   #57
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Originally Posted by aks316 View Post
out of the three choices i think as a car palio is better as it has better build more safe comfortable good ride and handling but the problem is the engine it is sluggish and i dont know how good or bad the aftersales service is so cant comment on that and resale value is also a suspect.. if you really want to go for palio then go for the diesel version it is much better much faster better engine and it will have better resale.. and i think you should take a look at aveo UVA it is solid comfortable good ride & handling very spacious decent mileage and performance and right now there is a scheme going that for 3 years service and maintainance is free which includes clutch parts, brake pads & all you just have to pay for the fuel the on road price of aveo uva is 4.28-5.30.. tc.
aks316, thank you for your advice. The points you raised about palio are true : engine is sluggish and resale is poor since fiat did terribly bad on the after sales service front. Nobody liked to purchase any fiat vehicles. The tata salesperson also admitted that.

I don't trust GM. My friends had some bad experience with GM in US. They say something and doesn't live up to their promises later. Their car is a strict no-no for me, as I mentioned earlier.
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Old 21st March 2008, 00:24   #58
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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
Quite simple really, Dad wanted a WagonR Duo, and I wanted the Indica.
Between us , the WagonR was winning , until Dad decided to actually drive both cars - the driving school (yes , both me + dad were learning to drive only then ) had an indica DLS and a WagonR running on LPG. Our home is on an incline , and dad needed a lot of half clutching and handbraking with the WagonR to park into our gate- with the indica , he had no such trouble. the car started moving by itself at idle revs . He also felt that the Wagon R's A pillar reduced visiblity

Add to that the indica's ruggednes, and the gurujis here recommended the indica for ICE'ing ( still not done yet :-( )
Okay, I got the point.

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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
the stile is good VFM in the short term. but do consider the long term as well. Already , parts are in short supply and/or expensive, while tata parts are porbably available everywhere . I wouldnt buy a stile 1.1. a 1.6 or a 1.3MJD, maybe , but definitely not a 1.1
The salespersons told me that the fiat parts available nowadays throughout India, though they are costly compared to tata's. I feel that fiat's quality control is better than tata's, so chances of getting any parts broken are less compared to tata's vehicle.

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regarding the i10 vs indigo CS, its a question of quantity vs quality. Choose your priorities
Quite so. Every 3 cars listed above have their own pluses and minuses; i10 : nice look, good interiors, enough legspace for a small car, dashboard is quite modern with lots of security alarms but pricey. Indigo CS : I liked the look, interior plastic cheap but tolerable, plenty of room inside, boot is quite big, price is attractive but Tata's quality control seems to be not at par with others. I don't want my new cars to be taken to the dealer just after the purchase. Rattling noises, broken time belts, faulty power windows are common features of Tata. But since Tata has targeted their vehicles with vfm in mind, some compromise has been made with the quality. Palio is from fiat, so technically more sound, robustly built, interior is the best among all the hatches, good amount leg as well as boot space. But they compromised with the engine. I think it's from Fiat Panda. It has only 57 bhp, though it weighs almost 1000 kg.

Well, it's time for more research. I have to dig up this forum more to come to a conclusion.

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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
Disclaimer: having said all this, there seem to be more lemons among tata cars ( i guess because they sell more) Some members here, especially early buyers got some bad ones. I was aware that buying/owning a tata is a small gamble. I'm happy that I've been winning at it so far. But I wont be held responsible for this advice - it's given as is :-)
I assure you for that. Let me thank you once again to be so kind to all my naive questions.
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Old 21st March 2008, 09:44   #59
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Originally Posted by crosscap View Post

I have shortlisted the following cars :

1. Fialt Palio 1.1 SLE
2. Indigo CS
3. Hyundai i10

A. Which one should I go for and why? Kindly give your reasons.
B. Between i10 and palio which one I should go for?
C. Between Indigo CS and palio which one should I go for?
D. What is rough mileage of palio?


I need some feedback from palio owners in this forum. Is there any way to find which members which cars?
CrossCap,

Let me try and give you a firsthand ownership experience with the Palio:

The build quality of Palio is very good. I have driven my Palio for 8000 kms in the past 3 months on excellent roads, not so good roads, ghat roads, no roads - literally everywhere. No rattles so far.

The Palio 1.1 is not as responsive as the other cars in this segment, but can hold its own if driven sedately. I did meet with an unfortunate accident when the car was just 10 days old and had to get the left fender and front passenger door replaced. The process took 10 days. Not sure if this is reasonable time. Maybe if was Maruti they could have fixed it faster. Other than that I have not needed any spares so far. So I am not in a position to comment on availability of spares.

As far as quality of service goes, I am satisfied with the service, though I would expect a bit more proactivity from the service center. For example, I requested that the wheels be rotated in the second service at 7500 kms. While that was done, the service center did not clean the inside of the alloys.

I get a constant milage of ~14 kmpl in City with 50% A/C. The best highway milage was 16.8 with 60% A/C.

The Palio however lack ABS & Airbags, even as options.

Coming back to your budget and OTR, please also include costs for Music system ( Palio does not come with one). You may also want to get your tyres upsized, as most cars in India come with skinny OEM tyres.

My total OTR cost came to Rs.500,000 - including ICE installation, Alloy wheels and tyre upsize and leather seats.


All said and done, buying and owning a FIAT is more of a passion than a decision made with a level head. FIAT owners in this forum (including me) will go all out to defend FIAT, as they love their cars - so much so that they are willing to put up with poor A.S.S and other niggling issues as the pleasure of owning this car outweighs these issues.

Hope this helps,

Cheers,

Rajan
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Old 21st March 2008, 12:20   #60
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CrossCap,

Let me try and give you a firsthand ownership experience with the Palio:

The build quality of Palio is very good. I have driven my Palio for 8000 kms in the past 3 months on excellent roads, not so good roads, ghat roads, no roads - literally everywhere. No rattles so far.
Patchyboy, thank you for your prompt reponse. During my short period of test drive I also realized that this car can be driven on any road.

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Originally Posted by PatchyBoy View Post
The Palio 1.1 is not as responsive as the other cars in this segment, but can hold its own if driven sedately. I did meet with an unfortunate accident when the car was just 10 days old and had to get the left fender and front passenger door replaced. The process took 10 days. Not sure if this is reasonable time. Maybe if was Maruti they could have fixed it faster. Other than that I have not needed any spares so far. So I am not in a position to comment on availability of spares.
Sorry to hear that patchyboy. Hope you didn't get seriously injured.

That reminds of a question which I forgot to ask the dealer. What exactly does the extended warranty cover? Anything mechanical + electrical? Or something specific? Were those bumper and front door got replaced under warranty?

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Originally Posted by PatchyBoy View Post
As far as quality of service goes, I am satisfied with the service, though I would expect a bit more proactivity from the service center. For example, I requested that the wheels be rotated in the second service at 7500 kms. While that was done, the service center did not clean the inside of the alloys.
Okay, great news. The dealer promised that they will take good care of any problems with either Tata or Fiat car so long as I am in Alld. Since the dealer found two prospective buyer from my Inst(myself and my colleague), their area sales manager and senior branch manager landed up in my office. I frankly asked them whether they treat fiat cars as their stepchildren. The senior manager said that under JV they have to explain in every details of sales figure to both the seniors in Tata and Fiat. So they try promote both Tata and Fiat cars in an unbiased way.

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I get a constant milage of ~14 kmpl in City with 50% A/C. The best highway milage was 16.8 with 60% A/C.
Sounds encouraging. I thought it would be less, as it weighs more than any other hatchback in its class.

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The Palio however lack ABS & Airbags, even as options.
Yeah, I know that. Very few cars come with such option in this segment.

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Originally Posted by PatchyBoy View Post
Coming back to your budget and OTR, please also include costs for Music system ( Palio does not come with one).
Aha... you raised a very good point. I love to have music system installed in my car. My plan is to use that extra cash discount towards installing the music system. The Tata dealer here provides Blaupunkt music system. How are they? I somewhere read that they are better than sony.

Did you try to get any deal on the music system from the dealer?

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Originally Posted by PatchyBoy View Post
You may also want to get your tyres upsized, as most cars in India come with skinny OEM tyres.
Aren't the stock tyres good enough? Okay, I shall keep that in mind.

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Originally Posted by PatchyBoy View Post
My total OTR cost came to Rs.500,000 - including ICE installation, Alloy wheels and tyre upsize and leather seats.


All said and done, buying and owning a FIAT is more of a passion than a decision made with a level head. FIAT owners in this forum (including me) will go all out to defend FIAT, as they love their cars - so much so that they are willing to put up with poor A.S.S and other niggling issues as the pleasure of owning this car outweighs these issues.
Quite encouraging. I still need some time to think about my choice : which one to go for? I need more time for research.

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Originally Posted by PatchyBoy View Post
Hope this helps,

Cheers,

Rajan
Certainly, yes. Your first hand experience had been quite helpful to me. Buying the car for the first time in my life in US was much more difficult than this time. I didn't have such a nice friendly forum like this in US.
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