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Old 10th November 2008, 13:23   #46
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Thanks for your advice. But my point is my annual drive is only below 5000 Km and the period for which I am conceding the car is at least 5 years. I love to drive cars with good driving dynamics, classy looks and my budget is 9 Lacs. Now all the cars Fiesta S, Cedia, ANHC & old Corolla are good cars and almost in my budget price.

Conceding C segment Fiesta S is VFM car and ANHC is new and better looking car to me.
Conceding D segment new Cedia is out of budget and Cedia ALPG is VFM and less on running cost with LPG but lack of boot space is a big issue. Old Corolla is a better looking and a car looked upon as much better car then Cedia (in the eyes of an ordinary person Corolla is considered expensive and bigger car then Cedia).

Now in my budget which car is best for me? I am totally confused, one day I conceder going for Cedia another day it becomes Fiesta S and at the end I think of TD ANHC first. Although I am not in a hurry of buying a car. I can still wait as my old love Ikon is in 100% running condition and can take on any car on highways.

Now coming to your question of have I driven Fiesta S?
Yes, the car is good at handling and is fun to drive. But driving it after Ikon 1.6 Zxi it doesn't feels like a real upgrade. This is the only issue I have with Fiesta.

I still need of your advice.
VikCho

I would suggest wait for the TD of ANHC before getting further confused.
If you aint satisfied with it . I would suggest the Fiesta S. I would still suggest you to keep it Fiesta S vs ANHC. Kindly remove Cedia & Old Corolla from the list .
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Old 10th November 2008, 14:08   #47
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Now I have one more important question in mind.

A ANHC S-MT at 8.83 Lacs or old Corolla H2 at 10 Lacs (Assumed price).

Corolla's plus:
Alloy Wheels
Fog lamps
Climate control AC
Bigger engine (1.8 L at 125 Bhp)

Negatives:
Faced out model
Low FE

ANHC plus:
New vehicle
Better looks
Better FE expected

Negatives:
all plus of Corolla
Others discussed earlier

Please advice.
VikCho
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Old 10th November 2008, 14:43   #48
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(Non altis) Corolla FE is around 11 in City With AC on. Can't be said BAD !
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Old 10th November 2008, 15:49   #49
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Oh! VikCho!
You are asking all the questions and you are giving all the answers. And you are still confused!

Believe me – you should use the forum to help you arrive at the decision and not decide for you. The decision should be yours. Which is why, I do not want to make a conclusion or put a decision in your mind, but just give thoughts to help you arrive at the decision.

Well, let us first compare the Ikon Nxt 1.6 with the Fiesta!
  • The Ikon is truly a josh machine as it was advertised those days! 92bhp@5500rpm and 130Nm@2500rpm. Compare this with Fiesta at 101bhp@6500rpm and 146Nm@3400rpm. I am not really thrilled by the higher peak power and torque coming in at higher rpm. Especially the 6500 is rather unrealistic. Now consider that Fiesta weighs 162kg or 16.4% more than the Ikon, look at power & torque per kg ratios – Net, in practical usage the Ikon 1.6Nxt is peppier that the Fiesta (SXi or S)!
  • Look at the interiors of the Ikon with the dash of chrome in handles, hand brake, gear etc. The Fiesta in comparison has cheaper looking plastics. Aluminum instead of chrome looks rather dull. The sporty steering of the Ikon gives way to something very sheepish on the Fiesta.
  • In tune with the times, Fiesta has incorporated ABS, airbags, electrical adjustment OVRM, HLL etc.
Well, the idea of the above comparison is only to find out what does the Fiesta give to someone who had been driving the Ikon 1.6Nxt (Zxi or Sxi versions). To be frank it doesn’t give you a feeling of upgrade at all. Especially if you consider the Fiesta with lot of expectations, it is feeling of being let down. This is exactly the reason why I knocked out the Fiesta when I was replacing my 5 year old Ikon some time back.

I can see that you are aspiring too much to go for something that will be considered as an upgrade, but at same time constrained by budget.
  • You are assuming non-Altis Corolla at 10L – Not every dealer has this. Did you check the availability with your local dealers? Did they give an offer? Check out first – it they do not have it, why have this option at all.
  • As mentioned on the thread, wait for the TD of ANHC. After going this far, do not give it a miss without trying it. You should be able to get one for TD in a week. I do not want to pre-empt too much, but I suspect many of the points I mentioned for the Fiesta may hold good here also – watch out for those.
  • Based on outcome of the above you can decide on next course of action. If you are running out of options or if you have more time, you can also consider Optra Magnum or the SX4 also.
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Old 10th November 2008, 16:49   #50
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Oh! VikCho!
You are asking all the questions and you are giving all the answers. And you are still confused!
------[*]Based on outcome of the above you can decide on next course of action. If you are running out of options or if you have more time, you can also consider Optra Magnum or the SX4 also.[/list]
Yes, I am confused. The reason is I want an upgrade which I don't find in Fiesta S, as you compared nothing except safety features is impressive in the best VFM car in the choice. The ANHC looks overpriced and my personal feelings are may be mid next year Honda will come out with Alloys, fog lamps, and may be better music system as standard in same price tag, but I can't wait until that time and it's only my assumption. Cedia is a great car but is an unsuccessful car model to me as the cheapest D segment car but road presence is a lot less then any other D or C segment car. Corolla new is out of budget and old is also a bit over my budget but I don't know is it a steel at that price (As even 2006 model used Corolla goes for around 7 Lacs). So I only want advice and final decision will definitely be mine.

As you said about ANHC I will certainly wait for TD before reaching any final decision for sure. My dealer have coated a date around 12th Nov for TD.

Now coming to Corolla the dealer in A'bad is offering me one H2 model for ex-showroom at 9.4 lacs and I think that there is a scope of little more bargain.
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Old 10th November 2008, 17:14   #51
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Now coming to Corolla the dealer in A'bad is offering me one H2 model for ex-showroom at 9.4 lacs and I think that there is a scope of little more bargain.
Are you going to buy in A’bad?
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Old 10th November 2008, 17:44   #52
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Are you going to buy in A’bad?
Yes, I have relatives as well as business links in A'bad. I can buy from there and a driver will bring it to Delhi. Insurance and registration will be done in Delhi. I have enquired about registration in Delhi authority and there don't have any problem regarding buying a car from another state, if I get it registered in Delhi.
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Old 13th November 2008, 23:43   #53
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[quote=karanraheja;1046653]Inspite of the discount i would nt recommend you the old model. Corolla is a great car no doubt but resale would be hit if you sell after 5 years . New City would fetch you better resale after 5 years. Members correct me if im wrong.

I would suggest the fiesta 1.6s if fuel efficiency is not your concern.simply because its an amazing drivers car and the right package of performance and handling.comes with descent looking 15" alloys stock.So that means no upgrade for quiet some time.
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Old 14th November 2008, 19:41   #54
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Too many ppl keep recommending Fiesta S on this forum, its almost the replacement of old Baleno love the forummers had, but in real life the perception of Fiesta is quite the contrary to what we read here, here is my take:

1) Fiesta is much smaller looking compared to ANHC, it almost looks a segment smaller. Even when compared to SX4 its smaller. Its more in line with Aveo.

2) Fiesta never really sold in high numbers. Its the bread and butter model of Ford India, but compared to SX4 and NHC it never really sold like hotcakes, barring its diesel initially due to great mileage.

3) From personal experience, I find the front seats of Fiesta too small. Even smaller when compared to Swift, no thigh support at all. They remind me of Indica.

4) All this thing about driving and handling is great (I wont comment on this) but I never found it like the performance hatch its made out to be. Fiesta S is just a marketing gimick, its the same old Fiesta with black sportier interiors and nice alloys. Rest the engine, suspension etc is same as old Fiesta.

5) Mileage: Fiesta is definitely not known for its mileage and Ford after sales is nothing to write home about. Add to this that the global future of Ford is uncertain, whats indeed true is that they would be a lot of restructuring no matter what... Add to this that Honda Civic is the most sold car in US in the last month.

6) Purely on specs the new City is better than Fiesta.

7) New City would fetch you higher resale value.

8) The new City would have lower maintainence cost imho.

9) If you choose the new City you would be driving a model that wouldnt be changed in the near future. Fiesta is an older platform with just minor lights and bumper and hood upgrade.

10) You will be percieved a class higher if you drive ANHC over Fiesta. Fiesta thanks to its older 1.4 sibling is persieved relatively cheaper than ANHC even if the difference price wise may not be huge.

My suggestion, do the maths before you jump the gun.
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Old 14th November 2008, 20:44   #55
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1) Fiesta is much smaller looking compared to ANHC, it almost looks a segment smaller. Even when compared to SX4 its smaller. Its more in line with Aveo.
True I said the same in the thread before. Also I own Ikon 1.6 for last 8 years no real feel of an upgrade in terms of size, performance and handling. Although Fiesta S is fully loaded (Alloys, Fog lamps, etc.) so looks a better VFM package compared to ANHC.

Quote:
2) Fiesta never really sold in high numbers. Its the bread and butter model of Ford India, but compared to SX4 and NHC it never really sold like hotcakes, barring its diesel initially due to great mileage.
True again the ford reputation is really bad due to the previous experience of high maintenance cost in Ikon(no personal experience though). But re sale & mileage plays most important role in Indian market.

Quote:
3) From personal experience, I find the front seats of Fiesta too small. Even smaller when compared to Swift, no thigh support at all. They remind me of Indica.
Can't comment as I didn't noticed this issue.

Quote:
4) All this thing about driving and handling is great (I wont comment on this) but I never found it like the performance hatch its made out to be. Fiesta S is just a marketing gimick, its the same old Fiesta with black sportier interiors and nice alloys. Rest the engine, suspension etc is same as old Fiesta.
Here I disagree as in this price tag you should not expect it to outperform cars of higher segments. And I don't feel SX4 or NHC to be ahead of Fiesta in terms of performance. Also suspension os Fiesta S is different as coated by many members earlier, it's improved.

Quote:
5) Mileage: Fiesta is definitely not known for its mileage and Ford after sales is nothing to write home about. Add to this that the global future of Ford is uncertain, whats indeed true is that they would be a lot of restructuring no matter what... Add to this that Honda Civic is the most sold car in US in the last month.
Ford is not known to make fuel efficient cars although Fiesta Diesel is one. Here my monthly driving is less then 500 Km so if I pay a higher cost for ANHC I will not be able to en cash extra money paid by driving. So I wish to know is it really worth it for ANHC? Also no appropriate figure for FE on ANHC is known.

Quote:
6) Purely on specs the new City is better than Fiesta.
ANHC is slightly ahead in terms of power and what else. Please elaborate?

Quote:
7) New City would fetch you higher resale value.
I am conceding a period of over 5 years for which I am not going to change my car after this purchase. Also the ANHC is not a tried and tested product so who knows about the resale value after 5 years or more.

Quote:
8) The new City would have lower maintainence cost imho.
Up till now what I have learned is that the servicing cost of Honda is more then Ford. Other then that wear and tear cost might be high on Ford. Also the ground clearance of ANHC worries me.

Quote:
9) If you choose the new City you would be driving a model that wouldnt be changed in the near future. Fiesta is an older platform with just minor lights and bumper and hood upgrade.
You are right but I expect a price cut or free accessories package to come from Honda mid next year. May be after Fiat launch Linea. The top model I expect in the same price comes loaded with Alloys, Fog lamps, and other accessories as standard. Also as honda launched NHC ZX a few years after launching NHC, such changes can be expected.

Quote:
10) You will be percieved a class higher if you drive ANHC over Fiesta. Fiesta thanks to its older 1.4 sibling is persieved relatively cheaper than ANHC even if the difference price wise may not be huge.
As said earlier ANHC certainly looks a class higher but price gap is not small it's more then 1.5 laks conceding putting Alloys in ANHC.

Quote:
My suggestion, do the maths before you jump the gun.
Well thanks for your suggestion, I will certainly do my maths before taking my final decision. Also if you can guide if Cedia should be put into the consideration.
VikCho
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Old 14th November 2008, 21:45   #56
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Originally Posted by VikCho View Post
True I said the same in the thread before. Also I own Ikon 1.6 for last 8 years no real feel of an upgrade in terms of size, performance and handling. Although Fiesta S is fully loaded (Alloys, Fog lamps, etc.) so looks a better VFM package compared to ANHC.
VikCho
Ok, we first need to bottom down to what is it that you really want from your car? If its merely VFM and goodies like alloys, fog lamps etc. nothing beats SX4. However I have always said in other threads as well, you cant change the soul of the car, which is space, engine, economy, wheel base, power, handling and safety. If a car has all these and the goodies, great. But if the car only has the goodies but lacks fundamentaly in the above qualities, you have yourself an SX4. A truly loaded car, which doesnt really excite in the most fundamental sense.

I can buy alloys and fog lamps after market, but I cant buy Automatic Transmission, Engine, wheel base etc. You get the point???

Avg Car + More Goodies < Avg Car + Avg Goodies < Good Car + Below Avg Goodies

As per me.


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Originally Posted by VikCho View Post
True again the ford reputation is really bad due to the previous experience of high maintenance cost in Ikon(no personal experience though). But re sale & mileage plays most important role in Indian market.
VikCho
Agreed!

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Originally Posted by VikCho View Post
Can't comment as I didn't noticed this issue.
VikCho
Try checking the seats thigh support next time you sit in Fiesta. You'd be in for a unpleasent surprise.


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Originally Posted by VikCho View Post
Here I disagree as in this price tag you should not expect it to outperform cars of higher segments. And I don't feel SX4 or NHC to be ahead of Fiesta in terms of performance. Also suspension os Fiesta S is different as coated by many members earlier, it's improved.
VikCho
Again, there is this hype in the forum about Fiesta being all an all a new Baleno avtaar. More so with Fiesta S than the original Fiesta 1.6. I'd say, in my opinion its certainly better than SX4 an the likes, but being miles ahead etc as its made out to be is certainly over stated.

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Originally Posted by VikCho View Post
Ford is not known to make fuel efficient cars although Fiesta Diesel is one. Here my monthly driving is less then 500 Km so if I pay a higher cost for ANHC I will not be able to en cash extra money paid by driving. So I wish to know is it really worth it for ANHC? Also no appropriate figure for FE on ANHC is known.
VikCho
It depends totally on what you want. Just VFM with low cost of running and alloys etc. can also be found on Indigo XL which is a VFM by all means. But its a segment lower and has an image issue thats why out of question in your quest. Similary if its a mere financial consideration where you compare a slightly higher segment car in C segment to a entry level car in C segment and merely rate them on goodies and price is not a fair comparison. If money is not an issue its a no brainer. Say for eg. how would you rate the two guys:

A) Bought top model of Fiesta fully loaded for 8 lakhs

B) Bought Corolla H1 for 9.5 Lakhs. Corolla had fewer goodies, gave less mileage etc.

Who do you think is percieved higher??? Thats the comparison I want to draw. ANHC cant compete with Fiesta on price as its positioned on upper C segment as compared to Fiesta thats now dated, has seen slight price correction and sits in mid C segment by most optimistic comparisons.


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Originally Posted by VikCho View Post
ANHC is slightly ahead in terms of power and what else. Please elaborate?
VikCho
When I say ANHC is better in specs than Fiesta, I meant the car itself and not the goodies. The car has a longer wheel base, more space, more boot space, better power, most likely better mileage, better transmission, option of 5 speed auto with paddle shift, more torque, better technology in terms of iVtech, better external looks, more road presence....

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Originally Posted by VikCho View Post
I am conceding a period of over 5 years for which I am not going to change my car after this purchase. Also the ANHC is not a tried and tested product so who knows about the resale value after 5 years or more.
VikCho
Somehow when I read this, I feel either you dont have a budget for ANHC and thus want to mentally justify buying Fiesta. If thats the case its no brainer, go what your budget alloys you to do. Otherwise, how can one say Honda City is not tested etc. Honda has a history of launching succesful cars, the engine is a modified version of the old vtech. You can rest assured the car wont have niggling quality issues ala Maruty. And even after 5 years would get you more resale than Fiesta. Justifying the higher initial cost.

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Originally Posted by VikCho View Post
Up till now what I have learned is that the servicing cost of Honda is more then Ford. Other then that wear and tear cost might be high on Ford. Also the ground clearance of ANHC worries me.
VikCho
The ground clearance of ANHC is not an issue as far as I am aware. But even if it is, look at how many Civics Honda has sold till date. I am sure its better than a Civic, so dont base your decision on percieved faults. I am hearing for the first time that Honda City maintainence is higher than a Ford, this is news to me.

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Originally Posted by VikCho View Post
You are right but I expect a price cut or free accessories package to come from Honda mid next year. May be after Fiat launch Linea. The top model I expect in the same price comes loaded with Alloys, Fog lamps, and other accessories as standard. Also as honda launched NHC ZX a few years after launching NHC, such changes can be expected.
VikCho
No one knows the future. In future they might hike the price, govt might bring a new excise, Ford might give a huge discount on Fiesta.... If the criteria is future price drop or more goodies, than no one in the world will ever buy a PC, as electronic components become cheaper buy the day. However you buy the latest product of the time, and pay the price at the given moment. Car is depreciating investment and of course as cars become older there are discounts. Currently they are giving huge disc on Civic but when the car was luanched there were none. However a new update to the current Civic is due, so the guy who bought the car 3 years ago, drove a new car for 3 years, and the guy who buys the car now, with the discount only gets to drive something new for 6 months before the change. Getting the point???

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Originally Posted by VikCho View Post
As said earlier ANHC certainly looks a class higher but price gap is not small it's more then 1.5 laks conceding putting Alloys in ANHC.
VikCho
Again if money is the criteria, than go for Ford. But its not a real upgrade from Ikon, its more of the same. You'd be stuck with a new model of the same car you drive for the next 5 years. Good Luck! Be prepared to explain to a lot of ppl the benefits of Fiesta S when you buy it, as most non Team BHPians wont understand your criteria for choosing Fiesta over Honda.


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Originally Posted by VikCho View Post
Well thanks for your suggestion, I will certainly do my maths before taking my final decision. Also if you can guide if Cedia should be put into the consideration.
VikCho
No one in his right mind can recommend a Cedia except a true enthuasist in T Bhp. Mistu has no concrete plans in India. The car though great, suffers terribly from HMs ***, poor FE, dated looks, terrible resale and no real road map for the manf in India. If it was my hard earned money, I would stay away as far as possible from the Cedia showroon.

Last edited by aseem : 14th November 2008 at 21:46.
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Old 14th November 2008, 22:00   #57
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Yes, I have relatives as well as business links in A'bad. I can buy from there and a driver will bring it to Delhi. Insurance and registration will be done in Delhi. I have enquired about registration in Delhi authority and there don't have any problem regarding buying a car from another state, if I get it registered in Delhi.
Well, if you can verify the car they are offering in all respects along with a good deal, then maybe you should go for it. This is just a gut feel, because it looks like this will meet all your aspirations – at the end this is most important.
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Old 14th November 2008, 23:22   #58
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It almost feels like the OP just wants to buy a Fiesta and is looking for justification for the same.

Honda service may be arrogant, but they aren't complete idiots.
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Old 15th November 2008, 15:00   #59
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It almost feels like the OP just wants to buy a Fiesta and is looking for justification for the same.

Honda service may be arrogant, but they aren't complete idiots.
Well don't take me wrongly. As you can notice from the thread's name "ANHC or Verna CRDI" that Fiesta was ruled out of the competition very first day. But many members here advised me to TD Fiesta S and Concorde it the best VFM package.
Well I have to confess that the TD was satisfactory but the real feel for an upgrade after driving Ikon for so many years was totally missing.

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Originally Posted by aseem View Post
Ok, we first need to bottom down to what is it that you really want from your car? If its merely VFM and goodies like alloys, fog lamps etc. nothing beats SX4. However I have always said in other threads as well, you cant change the soul of the car, which is space, engine, economy, wheel base, power, handling and safety. If a car has all these and the goodies, great. But if the car only has the goodies but lacks fundamentaly in the above qualities, you have yourself an SX4. A truly loaded car, which doesnt really excite in the most fundamental sense.

I can buy alloys and fog lamps after market, but I cant buy Automatic Transmission, Engine, wheel base etc. You get the point???

Avg Car + More Goodies < Avg Car + Avg Goodies < Good Car + Below Avg Goodies

As per me.



Agreed!
You are right the sole of the car can not be upgraded. But I want to know if the Honda is en-cashing it's brand name or ANHC is worth it at the price tag?

Quote:
It depends totally on what you want. Just VFM with low cost of running and alloys etc. can also be found on Indigo XL which is a VFM by all means. But its a segment lower and has an image issue thats why out of question in your quest. Similary if its a mere financial consideration where you compare a slightly higher segment car in C segment to a entry level car in C segment and merely rate them on goodies and price is not a fair comparison. If money is not an issue its a no brainer. Say for eg. how would you rate the two guys:

A) Bought top model of Fiesta fully loaded for 8 lakhs

B) Bought Corolla H1 for 9.5 Lakhs. Corolla had fewer goodies, gave less mileage etc.

Who do you think is percieved higher??? Thats the comparison I want to draw. ANHC cant compete with Fiesta on price as its positioned on upper C segment as compared to Fiesta thats now dated, has seen slight price correction and sits in mid C segment by most optimistic comparisons.
Well I am looking for the best car I can buy in my budget of 9 Laks and nothing else. Indigo is totally out of consideration as it will be a downgrade rather then upgrade. Fiesta also don't feel like an upgrade. I would like to add that ANHC S-MT is at the top of my consideration list. I am just waiting for the TD of ANHC to finalize and researching in the meanwhile.


Quote:
When I say ANHC is better in specs than Fiesta, I meant the car itself and not the goodies. The car has a longer wheel base, more space, more boot space, better power, most likely better mileage, better transmission, option of 5 speed auto with paddle shift, more torque, better technology in terms of iVtech, better external looks, more road presence....
Thanks for explanation. You are correct in all the areas you have mentioned that ANHC beats Fiesta easily.

Quote:
Somehow when I read this, I feel either you dont have a budget for ANHC and thus want to mentally justify buying Fiesta. If thats the case its no brainer, go what your budget alloys you to do. Otherwise, how can one say Honda City is not tested etc. Honda has a history of launching succesful cars, the engine is a modified version of the old vtech. You can rest assured the car wont have niggling quality issues ala Maruty. And even after 5 years would get you more resale than Fiesta. Justifying the higher initial cost.
Well my budget is 9 Lacs and ANHC S-MT fits in it. My point is the engine, suspension, body, and every thing on ANHC is new and untested in Indian conditions. Also add to that NHC was developed for indian conditions where else ANHC is a world car(Correct me if I am wrong).
I am not challenging the Honda as a brand name which manufacture successful car but until TD is out what can one say.

Quote:
The ground clearance of ANHC is not an issue as far as I am aware. But even if it is, look at how many Civics Honda has sold till date. I am sure its better than a Civic, so dont base your decision on percieved faults. I am hearing for the first time that Honda City maintainence is higher than a Ford, this is news to me.
Here you are wrong as GC of Civic(165 or 170 mm) is more then ANHC(160 mm) which is same as NHC(160 mm). My brother owns NHC and complains about car rubbing high speed breakers.


Quote:
No one in his right mind can recommend a Cedia except a true enthuasist in T Bhp. Mistu has no concrete plans in India. The car though great, suffers terribly from HMs ***, poor FE, dated looks, terrible resale and no real road map for the manf in India. If it was my hard earned money, I would stay away as far as possible from the Cedia showroon.
Well thanks to your and my brother's advice I have finally dropped the idea of buying Cedia.

Thanks once again for your advice and suggestions.
VikCho
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Old 15th November 2008, 17:37   #60
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Well, if you can verify the car they are offering in all respects along with a good deal, then maybe you should go for it. This is just a gut feel, because it looks like this will meet all your aspirations – at the end this is most important.
You are right. Corolla I think meets my aspirations but this time my Dad has gone against me. He said he is not going to allow me to buy a car which is an old model (discontinued by company). He said what is the point of going out of budget for a car which will appear to others as if you have bought a used car. Well even I agreed to him on this point.
Now I have dropped out Corolla, Cedia, and all most Fiesta too. My eyes are now set only on ANHC S-MT and I am keeping my fingers crossed, so the TD of ANHC doesn't disappoint me.
Well thanks for your reply.
VikCho
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