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Old 2nd November 2008, 20:24   #31
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Originally Posted by DieselFan View Post
Please do not throw numbers without data. Optra Magnum diesel is about 75,000 rs. more than petrol version which is 7.5% more. Not 30-40 %. Also resale value of diesel will be more than petrol of the same make/model.
Data !! Let data speak

(Petrol) (Diesel) (Petrol % costlier then diesel)
Delhi 50.62 34.86 49.38
Kolkata 52.2 35.81 47.8
Mumbai 55.04 38.93 44.96
Chennai 55.07 37.13 44.93

i.e. More running = Diesel = More Savings. One can pick diesel just for fun which might sound good and interesting for enthusiast but not for non-enthusiast or a sleek driver.

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Originally Posted by DieselFan View Post
Honda cars are more expensive to maintain than Chevrolet (Which is now providing 3 year maintenance holiday). Please do some research before writing in this forum.
I don't need any further research as i have both petrol and diesel optra in my family.

Don't bet your hard earned over the 3 year maintenance package if your are getting the diesel optra just for fun and run down to-from your 10km away office. Are you going to sell your car after 3 year even though you haven't ran it even 22K [((20 Kms * 30 Days)*12 Months)*3 years)], just for the sake of fun ?? I hope any wise man answer will be "NO". Go for a service at the authorized service center after the maintenance holiday, one will tear apart his cloths looking at wild service and spares cost.

But the story is totally different with Honda, one can rely with closed eyes. Have you heard any honda customer complaining exorbitant service and spares cost ?? I haven't. Be it 10K service or 100K it's always a cheer to get your honda serviced at honda authorized service center.

Please move your research forward then that of those fancy packages, They are helpful but for what they are meant for !! You might need to start your research from scratch to understand in a better manner.

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Originally Posted by DieselFan View Post
Again this statement is passe. Modern day diesel do not need extra maintenance. I am not sure who gave you the idea that you can skip maintenance schedules in petrol cars. It is equally important to adhere to maintenance schedule of any car. Now a days diesel cars have maintenance schedule of every 10K kms while honda still insists on a 5K maintenance schedule which I believe is a fleece.
I think you might want to go through forums and try to search the no.s of threads stating diesel engine seizing and petrol engine seizing. I hope most will be diesel engine one that too modern one including CRDI. Modern Day diesels do not require extra maintenance in comparison to aged technology diesel engine, but do require extra care when compared to even aged technology petrol engine.

Point ain't to miss the schedules service but to understand that petrol engines do not require too much attention in service part but diesel engines do require such attention very prominently. You can easily afford to miss a 5K scheduled petrol service but can you miss even a single 10K diesel service.
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Old 2nd November 2008, 22:22   #32
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Originally Posted by ashthedivx View Post

More running = Diesel = More Savings.
No doubt. But again the thread is going towards being Petrol vs Diesel.. .
C'mon guys how many so called new aged D's have you heard being seized. None that I have recently. And personally i have no service holiday for me going on (sadly) and i am yet to receive a hefty service bill (my indigo's service bills are more... hehe)
the torque is undoubtedly addictive but it still depends on usage i say.
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Originally Posted by ashthedivx View Post
always a cheer to get your honda serviced at honda authorized service center.
Not always the case... go through some threads at tbhp itself and you'll know some cheerful experiences. Its always the mix of good and bad.

Last edited by beanstalk_230 : 2nd November 2008 at 22:25.
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Old 3rd November 2008, 10:27   #33
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Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
"Optra is the best midsizer in roads", I think you are highly mistaken. Where would you put Altis & Civic then?
In a higher category. I am talking about C-segment cars that are one category (or sub-category) BELOW cars like the Civic and Corolla. That much should have been obvious to you considering we are primarily talking about the City v/s the Optra. Please try and stay on track.

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Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
Also kindly have a look at the sales figures, Optra sells peanuts in front of City!
That is hardly proof that the City is a better car. Indians have always been infatuated with Hondas... this is one of the only countries in the world where a Honda is seen as a status symbol, and this is something which will ALWAYS inflate Honda sales figures.
Your point is completely baseless. The Esteem has historically outsold the Astra probably 20-1. If you claim that the Esteem was a better car than the Opel Astra, you know absolutely nothing about cars.

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Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
1) It is good to opt for newer tech., otherwise people would be sitting on Amby's & Padmini's still! Honda is offering cutting edge iVtec on City, can you find faults with that. Apart from that have a look at its styling & design, don't you think it has taken the game to the next level, most think like this , even the auto. mags. Only if you could do more reading!
If only you could use more common sense. We are talking about the "LATEST" technology, not technology thats fifty years old from Ambys and Padminis. And the LATEST tech is often problematic. Passats and Lauras have tech in them that would make your City look ancient. And yet, they're riddled electronic issues, DSG issues, mechanical issues, etc.
Also, please tell me what your so called "cutting edge" tech on the iVTEC is good for. More performance? Sorry... the Optra Magnum has you beat there. More Fuel economy? Sorry, the Optra has you beat there as well. The Common-rail diesel tech on the Optra Magnum is the foremost diesel technology in the world today. The best diesel cars in the world (Mercs, Beemers, Audis) all use CRDI tech.
And if only you knew that styling is subjective. To prove my point... please look at the outgoing City. One of the ugliest cars to grace Indian roads, yet one of the most-selling.

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Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
2) Heavy built is not the only thing to look in while buying a car, do you know the roots of Optra, they can be traced to Daewoo, maybe good thing in your view! Optra had been beaten to the ground by the previous City itself, we are talking about a new one here! Maybe now you can see the diff. in successive genarations & not compare to Skoda's!
Where in my last post did I talk about weight? I talked about build quality. Yes, the "design" for the Optra was a Daewoo design, but the car is ground-up a GM product through and through. And if you find the design to be at fault, did you know it was styled by PININFARINA? Do you even know who Pininfarina is??? Learn some facts before you talk.


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Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
3) For reliability & Maintenance, please refer to various surveys by groups like JD tec., Honda has GM beat over there! We are not going by your small control group !
This is not a "small control group". This is a forum of (mostly) knowledgeable people who share a like-minded passion for all things automotive. That automatically makes them more qualified (in most cases) to comment on something that some clueless respondent in a JD Power survey. There seem to be one or two clueless people on this forum, though.

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Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
4) GM cars by far have the worst resale in India, be it in 5 years or immediately after delivery!
Again, so? Does that make them poor cars???
The Ford Ikon has crappy resale value. Does that make it a bad car?
So does the Lancer. Is that a bad car?
The indica has always had better resale value than the Palio. Does that make it a better can than the Palio???

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Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
Laugh if you want to but all I can say is your mind is prejudiced! Also, a very important point worth considering is that Optra's new gen. has already been launched/displayed abroad & is expected to come to India by mid of next year, so this gen. Optra does'nt stand a chance against the New City.
MY mind is prejudiced??? You refuse to acknowledge any logical argument in your posts. The OP said he wanted a car NOW. He's not going to wait for 6 months for the new Optra to come out.

Please use some common sense and logic when you post.
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Old 3rd November 2008, 10:43   #34
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Which has got better ground clearance city or magnum ? They may say 165 mm or 175 mm but the real road experience will be entirely different.
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Old 3rd November 2008, 11:26   #35
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Originally Posted by Nitronium View Post
IMHO, this 'my car is better than yours' sparring can go on till you've traced the origin of the screws in each of the cars.

What really matters when you're putting hard earned money into a car is the way you feel about it. In this case, both cars are relatively low maintainance vehicles, and from what i can gather, service and spare parts will not pose too much of a problem , considering they are both pretty reliable.

rahulsm has clearly stated that he fell in love with the Magnum . How would he feel if he bought the HC and saw an Optra drive by? Lame, but it's like comparing it to the girl who you never asked out, and saw walking off with some other guy!

So in this case between two evenly matched cars, it should be a decision of the heart. And this mine is better non-sense can really be given a rest.

My 2 cents. Cheers
Thank you for putting the facts clearly! this thread is getting pretty nasty.

I think people get very touchy whenever the name honda comes into context.

all i am saying and i agree with nitronium that both the cars have their own strengths and if rahulsm already loves the optra then we should be supportive and not start fighting about 2 brands and their roots. He is just making sure that there is nothing seriously wrong with the optra and there isnt. The optra is a fantastic package, VFM, great engine, efficient, very safe, looks great (fyi pininfarina designed) and is sold worldwide (as per my knowledge) the city is a domestic market car.

So relax guys and rahulsm dude if you like a car then buy it because there is not point putting in 10lacs for something you really dont like.
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Old 3rd November 2008, 11:41   #36
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Originally Posted by ghostrider View Post
In a higher category. I am talking about C-segment cars that are one category (or sub-category) BELOW cars like the Civic and Corolla. That much should have been obvious to you considering we are primarily talking about the City v/s the Optra. Please try and stay on track.
Seems you are making your own categories, Civic/Optra/ Corolla/Octy. fall in the same category. It was in reply to what you said "Optra is best in category".


Quote:
That is hardly proof that the City is a better car. Indians have always been infatuated with Hondas... this is one of the only countries in the world where a Honda is seen as a status symbol, and this is something which will ALWAYS inflate Honda sales figures.
Your point is completely baseless. The Esteem has historically outsold the Astra probably 20-1. If you claim that the Esteem was a better car than the Opel Astra, you know absolutely nothing about cars.
All I can say is try & respect your own market & don't get swept away by Western hoopla.
How can you say Esteem was a bad car, also you are comparing 2 cars which had huge diff. in their pricing.


Quote:
If only you could use more common sense. We are talking about the "LATEST" technology, not technology thats fifty years old from Ambys and Padminis. And the LATEST tech is often problematic. Passats and Lauras have tech in them that would make your City look ancient. And yet, they're riddled electronic issues, DSG issues, mechanical issues, etc.
Also, please tell me what your so called "cutting edge" tech on the iVTEC is good for. More performance? Sorry... the Optra Magnum has you beat there. More Fuel economy? Sorry, the Optra has you beat there as well. The Common-rail diesel tech on the Optra Magnum is the foremost diesel technology in the world today. The best diesel cars in the world (Mercs, Beemers, Audis) all use CRDI tech.
And if only you knew that styling is subjective. To prove my point... please look at the outgoing City. One of the ugliest cars to grace Indian roads, yet one of the most-selling.
Are you under the false impression that you have all the common sense in the World! Come out of it.
Latest tech. is always superior & better than previous. Newer gens. always grow on older tech. & better it in most ways.


Quote:
Where in my last post did I talk about weight? I talked about build quality. Yes, the "design" for the Optra was a Daewoo design, but the car is ground-up a GM product through and through. And if you find the design to be at fault, did you know it was styled by PININFARINA? Do you even know who Pininfarina is??? Learn some facts before you talk.
GM is losing World over, if at all you are aware of latest news!
You seem to be born in Pininfarina, though Optra's design does'nt break any ground as claimed by you, New City without your Pininfarina job looks much better.



Quote:
This is not a "small control group". This is a forum of (mostly) knowledgeable people who share a like-minded passion for all things automotive. That automatically makes them more qualified (in most cases) to comment on something that some clueless respondent in a JD Power survey. There seem to be one or two clueless people on this forum, though.
What do you mean to say? JD Power are dumb, pick up any other survey & you'll get answers.
Btw, people like you too post on this forum! Quality can be judged!



Quote:
Again, so? Does that make them poor cars???
The Ford Ikon has crappy resale value. Does that make it a bad car?
So does the Lancer. Is that a bad car?
The indica has always had better resale value than the Palio. Does that make it a better can than the Palio???
Cars which have poor/bad resale value is not without a reason. Cars which are good/better have sound/more resale value. If only you had the experience!



Quote:
MY mind is prejudiced??? You refuse to acknowledge any logical argument in your posts. The OP said he wanted a car NOW. He's not going to wait for 6 months for the new Optra to come out.

Please use some common sense and logic when you post.
Do you read properly or post for the heck of it. I said, going in for a Optra now does'nt seem to be a good idea as new Gen. is due in 6 months time. Wheras new gen. City is already out.
& please stop posting such personal attacks "common sense and logic", when you lack these bigtime!
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Old 3rd November 2008, 11:48   #37
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You seem to be stuck to your guns regardless of what the actual facts are. That's fine.

I could take the trouble to validate my "experience", and counteract your claims by informing you that I have over the years, in fact, had three Esteems AND an Astra, so I can objectively assess the strengths of both cars. I could point out to you that your statement that the "City is a better looking car" is ignorant, because looks are subjective.

BUT...

This is a pointless argument... you're not going to change your beliefs and opinions under any circumstances, so it's pointless to continue this debate.

Good luck to you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
Seems you are making your own categories, Civic/Optra/ Corolla/Octy. fall in the same category. It was in reply to what you said "Optra is best in category".


All I can say is try & respect your own market & don't get swept away by Western hoopla.
How can you say Esteem was a bad car, also you are comparing 2 cars which had huge diff. in their pricing.


Are you under the false impression that you have all the common sense in the World! Come out of it.
Latest tech. is always superior & better than previous. Newer gens. always grow on older tech. & better it in most ways.


GM is losing World over, if at all you are aware of latest news!
You seem to be born in Pininfarina, though Optra's design does'nt break any ground as claimed by you, New City without your Pininfarina job looks much better.



What do you mean to say? JD Power are dumb, pick up any other survey & you'll get answers.
Btw, people like you too post on this forum! Quality can be judged!



Cars which have poor/bad resale value is not without a reason. Cars which are good/better have sound/more resale value. If only you had the experience!



Do you read properly or post for the heck of it. I said, going in for a Optra now does'nt seem to be a good idea as new Gen. is due in 6 months time. Wheras new gen. City is already out.
& please stop posting such personal attacks "common sense and logic", when you lack these bigtime!
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Old 3rd November 2008, 12:15   #38
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Originally Posted by ghostrider View Post
You seem to be stuck to your guns regardless of what the actual facts are. That's fine.

I could take the trouble to validate my "experience", and counteract your claims by informing you that I have over the years, in fact, had three Esteems AND an Astra, so I can objectively assess the strengths of both cars. I could point out to you that your statement that the "City is a better looking car" is ignorant, because looks are subjective.

BUT...

This is a pointless argument... you're not going to change your beliefs and opinions under any circumstances, so it's pointless to continue this debate.

Good luck to you.
I too owned both Esteem & Astra over the years & also know pros. & cons of each car. But the price diff. between the 2 is huge to be comparing them.
Totally, pointless discussion as you are sticking to your own beliefs & not trying to imbibe the facts.
90% of the people would find the new City better looking than the old Optra, you seem to fall in the leftover 10%, no problems!
So, a very good luck to your with your stringent views!
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Old 3rd November 2008, 12:18   #39
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Hopefully both of you will stop flaming each other with this agree to disagree and close the argument before a Mod steps in to stop this. This doesn't seem to be in the spirit of this forum.
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Old 3rd November 2008, 12:56   #40
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@Bhp1 & GhostRider- kindly take a chill pill guys. Lets stick to the two cars.
Btw where is the thread starter Rahul??
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Old 3rd November 2008, 14:07   #41
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A big thanks to all of you for the overwhelming response.. though a little confusing in the middle, you have definitely helped me to a large extent.

Sorry for the late response.. weekeneds are a little difficult to browse as much as other days.

A couple of pointers about my present commute / vehicle;
1. I drive around 30 KM every day as office commute. There is this occassional drive to Kerala, Mangalore and other tourist spots.
2. Presently I own a small car (Santro) that I plan to keep as my second car. Wanted to experience a bigger & more powerful car.
3. No matter which car I own, I love to drive on the highways.

Like a lot of team BHPians, I felt the power of the Optra Magnum and was amazed how fast it can go... actually felt a superior surge even on the Bangalore roads, some thing I did not feel in the Altis and Scorpio.

I like the exteriors of the NHC but not at all impressed with their interiors.
Also never had a chance to drive one as none is available for test drives atleast for a couple of weeks more.
My wife likes the NHC in comparison to the optra and is quite adamant I go for one..

Chevy owners have already started warning me of the resale value. Checked one of the websites; for the same mileage and year of ownership almost priced the 2 at the same level (astonishing since both are quite apart in terms of OTR price).

Like one of you pointed out, my heart is strongly with the optra though my head is leaning towards the NHC.

Almost taken the decision to go for the NHC. WOuld keep you posted on the final outcome.

Many thanks again for the deluge of advice.

Best Regards,
Rahul
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Old 3rd November 2008, 14:21   #42
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Originally Posted by rahulsm View Post
3. No matter which car I own, I love to drive on the highways.
If you like highway driving, then I would suspect that ANHC would be a damp compared to Magnum Diesel. I would suggest that you TD it and then only decide.
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Old 3rd November 2008, 15:16   #43
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Originally Posted by rahulsm View Post

Almost taken the decision to go for the NHC. WOuld keep you posted on the final outcome.
For quite a many, the City has been the most logical upgrade from the Santro, and a good one at that. Good luck with your purchase.

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Originally Posted by Path_Finder View Post
If you like highway driving, then I would suspect that ANHC would be a damp compared to Magnum Diesel. I would suggest that you TD it and then only decide.
And, what exactly do you have to say about the lofty handling characteristics of the Magnum?
It may feel marginally better than the new City on the highway, but heck there's too much to compromise otherwise whilst going for the Magnum.
For all you know, Honda may have just executed half a good job at handling characteristics of the City too.

manson.
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Old 3rd November 2008, 15:32   #44
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And, what exactly do you have to say about the lofty handling characteristics of the Magnum?
It may feel marginally better than the new City on the highway, but heck there's too much to compromise otherwise whilst going for the Magnum.
For all you know, Honda may have just executed half a good job at handling characteristics of the City too.

manson.
I only meant that one should take a TD of the new City before deciding. The dealers today are fleecing Honda fans by taking 50K or 1L deposit with cancellation charges even before making it available for TD. And you see the threads on the new City you see the high hopes on the new City crumbling one by one and so the strong points of City/Honda.

You also agree that the Magnum is likely to be better on the highway than City I just wanted to highlight that point in relation to ones aspirations and not for any debate.
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Old 3rd November 2008, 15:35   #45
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Rahul both are good cars with their Pros and Cons. What matters is which one you and your family likes. Mutually decide and then go for it. Better to buy the one which you like personally rather than what people like. Good luck!
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