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Old 25th February 2009, 11:50   #16
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But in other words, is it difficult to control the speed in a crawling speed wihtout modulating the clutch? Personally I see this more as a drawback then an advantage. Forester, eventhough a petrol, needed simillar approach in crawling speed and I found it to be a pain.
ok thats another perspective. i keyed in what felt which is a far cry from the difficulty you experinced ! i completely respect that , but i for one would prefer playing around more with the clutch alone on a diesel than gunning the gas pedal and clutch together in a petrol engine .
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Old 25th February 2009, 11:52   #17
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I am not sure about this. Diesels have much better torque at lower rpms compared to Petrols, main reason why they always have better roll-on figures. For ghat sections, diesel power will rock you, unless you high rev your petrol car.
Yes diesels have better torque at lower rpms but the torque kicks in only once the turbo spools up post 1800-2000 rpm.Unlike petrols,where the rpm band is usually much higher,modern diesels have a comparatively smaller usable power band.For example,in my Elantra CRDi,the turbo kicks in at around 1800 rpm and the redline is only 4600 rpm.In a petrol you can potter around at low rpms and then floor the accelerator to get instant response,whereas in a diesel the response would be slightly delayed.Of course following the delay in a diesel like the Verna would be a savage torque thrust. Takes some getting used to and a bit of change in driving style to ensure the engine stays in its usable power range without turbolag.

Last edited by maverick030581 : 25th February 2009 at 11:55.
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Old 25th February 2009, 12:25   #18
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Yes diesels have better torque at lower rpms but the torque kicks in only once the turbo spools up post 1800-2000 rpm.Unlike petrols,where the rpm band is usually much higher,modern diesels have a comparatively smaller usable power band.For example,in my Elantra CRDi,the turbo kicks in at around 1800 rpm and the redline is only 4600 rpm.In a petrol you can potter around at low rpms and then floor the accelerator to get instant response,whereas in a diesel the response would be slightly delayed.Of course following the delay in a diesel like the Verna would be a savage torque thrust. Takes some getting used to and a bit of change in driving style to ensure the engine stays in its usable power range without turbolag.
All that is fine on regular drives, but in ghat sections where you can't be doing high speeds and mainly RPM needle hovering in 2K-3K band in lower gears, diesel stand far better chance. To get similar torque in petrol, you need to rev the engine much harder.
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Old 25th February 2009, 12:29   #19
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Mav, thanks - i know the theory well, how the turbo works But what i was curious about its how it would behave in situations - for example i am stalled in an incline with a Vechicle in front and one at back. Is the low grunt in lower RPMs going to be a pain for me?

I guess as with any other cars - its just the case of getting used to.
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Old 25th February 2009, 12:35   #20
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if munnar comes into ghat sections!! then i can assure you. i have badly bruised a BMW320i and Accord drivers ego both of them were busy ripping i passed them and was on my way before they knew what happened!!

rest is as usual everyone was hell bent on overtaking one another. no prizes for guessing the winner

cheers.

but yes 12k km doesnt warrant a diesel. petrol makes more sense. go for a cedia. best choice.
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Old 25th February 2009, 12:48   #21
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Mav, thanks - i know the theory well, how the turbo works But what i was curious about its how it would behave in situations - for example i am stalled in an incline with a Vechicle in front and one at back. Is the low grunt in lower RPMs going to be a pain for me?

I guess as with any other cars - its just the case of getting used to.
In the situation you mentioned,yes it would be a bit of a pain.Like you said,it will take some getting used to if you have mostly driven petrols.
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Old 25th February 2009, 13:39   #22
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but yes 12k km doesnt warrant a diesel. petrol makes more sense. go for a cedia. best choice.
Cedia is a great car. But the low resale quotient keeps me away from it.

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[City driving + only 12k kms in a year ] But with Verna i can assure you that you will start doing more of highway trips and start covering more than 12k kms in a year
Lol! Now that is a definite possibility
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Old 25th February 2009, 13:53   #23
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Both are extremely good cars and equally good in all technical and looks department. But since your criteria is "resale in 3 years", nothing would fetch you more than h. city. So, close your eyes and go for the ANHC.
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Old 25th February 2009, 15:10   #24
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Driving distance doesn't justify a diesel (<12K Kms/year), but i cannot find another sub 10L Sedan which would retain value well. - this is not essentially a good basis for chosing between a diesel and petrol sedan
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but yes 12k km doesnt warrant a diesel. petrol makes more sense.
So my question here is - running costs's the only reason why everyone would pick a diesel? Running cost wasn't my main criterion due to the following reasons:
  • bill reimbursements
  • 33% savings (tax deduction) on fuel/maintenance due to company lease (well -33% & +7% of the 33% as FBT to be accurate)
So this means there's no reason to pick a diesel at all? I thought diesels kept their value better.
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Old 25th February 2009, 17:18   #25
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Make your decision on the way you drive and what excites you. If you like sudden surge of acceleration and straightline performance then verna makes more sense. If you like hitting corners and playing your way around then ANHC might be a better option. I for one have always believed that vtecs have slight edge over CRDis in term of outright acceleration. I personally have outdragged couple of verna CRDis on expressways in my OHC 1.5 NON-Vtec(High end torque bliss). Redline ANHC from the start and you'll definately keep ahead from verna. But at the end its always the driving skills which would have an edge.
If you really love driving then dont make your decision on annual running and resale value. You can really have a monster of a car in verna. Just add petes later and you'll fall in love with acceleration nirvana. On the otherhand if you want reliability and love to rev your engine then ANHC is better.
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Old 26th February 2009, 08:45   #26
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@ashish - thanks for your help. Doubt if i am ever going to Pete it, even if i get the Verna.

To be frank, i am still a little confused about what i love. I loved the acceleration of Verna more than the ANHC. But i found it too difficult to potter around in traffic. City is very comfortable in traffic. Armed with the knowledge form here, and some feedback from Verna owners, i am getting a second TD to see if it makes any difference.
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Old 26th February 2009, 09:47   #27
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@ashish - thanks for your help. Doubt if i am ever going to Pete it, even if i get the Verna.

To be frank, i am still a little confused about what i love. I loved the acceleration of Verna more than the ANHC. But i found it too difficult to potter around in traffic. City is very comfortable in traffic. Armed with the knowledge form here, and some feedback from Verna owners, i am getting a second TD to see if it makes any difference.
If you are confused, think where do you drive more-city, congested city, jam city, or dangerous highways. Whichever car does better there, you can consider.
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Old 26th February 2009, 10:33   #28
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I think ANHC is better suited for you. Verna is not far behind but I keep ANHC ahead due to its looks and features, though it is overpriced, but worth paying between the two
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Old 26th February 2009, 10:34   #29
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If you are confused, think where do you drive more-city, congested city, jam city, or dangerous highways. Whichever car does better there, you can consider.
Vasudeva, as a corolla owner, what do you think about the Corolla J? I am not looking at Civic E due to the GC problems, but Corolla is good in that aspect. I will miss the airbags. A sub 10L would mean substantial difference in the end package from 1.8G due to the 4% less tax.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post1188255 (New Toyota Corolla Altis J model/variant) (New Toyota Corolla Altis J model/variant)
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Old 2nd March 2009, 12:05   #30
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Update folks: I have closed on the ANHC S M/T. Will book it this week. I loved the Polished Metal & black Perl. Will have to choose a color from this.

Thanks all for the help & suggestions.
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