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Old 24th March 2009, 13:28   #91
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Originally Posted by amit View Post
I find the NVH is poor for a 8 lakh rupee car. I would say this even if it was a Fiat Sx4, Honda SX4 or Ford SX4. Unlike many on this forum, I do find and accept faults in my car.

I find the NVH poor. Maybe you don't. Like I said everything is relative. I have a 5 lakh rupee car that's got better NVH then a 8 lakh one. I don't find that acceptable. Maybe you do. If you call me a SX4 baiter, I can call you a SX4 fanboy. Let's refrain from this nonsense.
Amit Sir, I rely on the forum for lot of decisions on aspects which I cannot test myself and I am sure lot of other people like me also do the same. Also, it is not that SX4 is my first car or I have been paid by Maruti to bolster SX4's image or I am obsessed with my car.. if you see my posts, I have highlighted issues as they are, but i would definitely say your posts appear as if to generalise the issues faced by you as the issues with the car which I do not find true based on my own personal experiences.

It would be good if you can mention that you are facing issues with your car and not general SX4 as a product as we should have an equal say on the same product we too are using.

As mentioned by others, I think we can close this and move on with the topic being discussed..

Sorry if you did not like my comments
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Old 24th March 2009, 14:16   #92
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@amit, you mentioned 3 main concerns about the SX4 on this thread :
- performance - dead till 2500 rpm
- bad ride quality
- bad NVH

All 3 are stuff that an average guy with some car-experience can make out during a TD. While I respect your opinion about a car you own, what baffles me is why you bought this car if you found it lacking on 'almost' all fronts ? I say 'almost' because I don't remember you giving any credit to the car on any front, save for maybe a comment about how it's high stance was a boon during monsoons.

Given that you have more experience/knowledge than the 'average guy', these issues should have been glaringly clear during your TD. And since these attributes obviously seem to matter to you (because you comment strongly on them), why did you buy a car which (as per you) is no where near your old hatchback in any attribute ? I don't see any logic in buying a car being fully aware that it does not meet one's expectations and then lamenting that it is completely useless.

I do not bother much about NVH in my car. Ride quality is a tad important, but performance is pretty important. Not a drag-racing kind of performance, but I believe that the car should not be lacking in the punch required for everyday driving. I hate our Swift for lacking punch at around 1000rpm, at which speed my Baleno is alive and kicking. But again they are different cars with different engines and tonnage.

So if the SX4 is dead at 2500rpm (like you say), that is a pretty serious concern. Haven't TD-ed the SX4 so have no idea, but what do other owners feel about this ?
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Old 24th March 2009, 14:29   #93
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Amit Sir
Please don't call me sir. I am nowhere near retirement age .

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It would be good if you can mention that you are facing issues with your car and not general SX4 as a product
From my SX4 running report thread:

Quote:
My car has three glaring defects.
These three were steering off centered, handbrake not engaging and vibration in third gear. For these issues, I have clearly mentioned MY CAR has three defects. As regards, NVH, I can't say MY car has poor NVH because a company does not make each car with different levels of NVH! I have been saying again and again that everything is relative. I may find a certain level of noise high but someone else may not.

Last edited by amit : 24th March 2009 at 14:32.
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Old 24th March 2009, 14:51   #94
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what is NVH not able to expand it excuse me for this ignorance
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Old 24th March 2009, 14:57   #95
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Noise Vibration & Harshness.
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Old 24th March 2009, 15:28   #96
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why you bought this car if you found it lacking on 'almost' all fronts ?
From my SX4 running report thread:

Quote:
Reasons for buying the SX4

I was very clear that my next car should have ABS, EBD and both front and passenger airbags. There was going to be no compromises on these two features at all. This eliminated almost all the C segment cars. The NHC was too over priced for the features it was offering and it's engine was downgrade compared to my current car. The Fiesta was too small for the money Ford wanted and didn't offer me both ABS and Airbags. Though I feel that Verna looks the best among C segment cars, the Verna CRdi which IMO is a much better buy then the petrol was too costly and didn't come with ABS and Airbags from what I know. So, even though the SX4 isn't conventionally good looking and was'nt exactly 'my type' of car, I still decided to go for it for the fantastic price to features that it offered. Maruti had a very good scheme for vendors but did'nt include the Zxi in it. The Vxi did'nt make sense to me as the upgrade I would be doing was merely from a hatch to a sedan. To some extent, the Palio was making it difficult for me to pick a new car as none of the C segmenter's had a engine bigger then 1.6 L. I was also waiting for the Linea and GP but the wait ahead was too long and I wasn't totally convinced about putting close to Rs.8 lacs on a Fiat because of the not upto the mark service setup.
Another reason for buying any car could be a business decision. I am not going into those details.

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I don't remember you giving any credit to the car on any front,
From my SX4 running report thread:

Quote:
Likes

1. Seats: I find the seats quite comfortable. I love side bolstering and the SX4 has a little bit of it. Also, the seats are softer then on the Palio and getting the ideal driving position is very easy unlike the Palio where it could take upto a few weeks to find that perfect position!

2. Features: The reason why I and close to 3,000 other buyers buy the SX4 every month. For the price, the SX4 is the VFM champion. No doubts about that. ABS, EBD and Airbags are a boon. Though I hope I never get to actually test them, it's reassuring knowing that state of the art safety features are avaliable should the need arise. Climate control is another great feature at the price point.

2. Steering mounted audio Controls: I have taken to this like a fish takes to water. Need I say more?

3. The seating position and the dash layout gives a MPV kinda feel from the inside.

4. I like the lighting of the instrument cluster and switches. Very neat!
This what I said when I posted a 25,000kms update on the my SX4 running report thread:

Quote:
- The engine has fantastic mid-range. Get the car into 2200-2500rpm and from there on, it's like the car is on steeroids with no let up upto even 3500rpm. I drove to Gujarat on 26th and 27th December and the car was pretty impressive. On most Indian highways, the safest you can do is about 130kmph. At that speed the SX4 is in the meat of it's mid-range and feels great to drive. Tap the throttle and the car lunges ahead with absolutely no lag. Slow moving vehicles are despatched quickly.

- The 16 inch tyres compensate high speed stability against the absolutely pathetic EPS.

- NVH is poor. Road and wind noise is very loud in the cabin. The engine is also noisy and not in a good way.

- Engine is limp at low speeds. Starting off in first and second is very frustrating with very little torque to pull the car. Sometimes it feels like I have a flat tyre!

- After the clutch was changed, the problem of vibration while starting off has disappeared.

- EPS is rubbish. Easily the worst thing in the car and easily the worst power steering set up I have seen in ANY car! The second worst are the JK tyres.
Below is what I have said on that same thread when someone asked me if he should go in for the car:

Quote:
Engine is disappointing. Interiors are acceptable specially after the ANHC's downmarket ones. Open the door and take a peek at the interiors before getting in and it actually looks pretty good. I am not a fan of the SUV looks and seating, it is a sedan and the seating should be like one too but this has it's advantages no doubt about it. Also, the GC is pretty good. Again, I prefer lower cars but I really appreciated the high GC during the Mumbai monsoons. Door pads are prone to rattle even if you use the stereo constantly at volume level of 30 and over.
Continuing on the same thread:

Quote:
To me the engine is a let down. But everything is relative. Someone upgrading from a Wagon R would be impressed by the power. Below 2500rpm I find it limp and dead but my problem was that I was upgrading from a Palio S10 and it is very difficult to equal the high standards set by a car like that so it's not entirely the SX4's fault. IMO, the SX4 is about 20bhp and equivalent torque short of being a fun to drive car. Still, you can have fun driving the SX4. Don't demand swift or wide grin inducing accelaration from the car and you will be okay. Enjoy the smooth accelaration and comfortable cruising in the car and it can be fun driving the SX4. But yea be prepared for making gear changes as the car tends to drop out of it's peak rev range pretty easily. What I have noticed is that what the Palio can do in 4th gear the SX4 does it in 3rd. That's what happens when you have the same horsepower but have to lug 12xx kgs compared to 1086kgs of the Palio. That's why I say that the car is about 20bhp short. Maybe a 1.8L would sort out this problem....
As for the most important fuel efficiency question, this is what I wrote:

Quote:
SX4 Driving pattern:

Route : Chembur to Vashi to Kharghar and back. 75% highway 25% city
Tyre pressure : 29 psi
Fuel: IOC Regular.
Nos of people : Mostly single person.

Worst mileage : 11.01kmpl
Best mileage: 15.78kmpl.

I have another 1.6L car that weighs slightly less then the SX4, has smaller tyres and is more aerodynamic then the tall Maruti. There is very little to diffrentiate between the two cars. I am happy and satisfied with the SX4's mileage
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Old 24th March 2009, 17:14   #97
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Thanks, Amit. Now anyone looking at the SX4 can have a balanced view of things since the +ves have also been mentioned by you. Earlier, the thread gave an impression that the SX4 totally sucks, which is definitely not the case.

@drashkum, the post above should be of quite some help to you in clearing any doubts you had about the SX4.
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Old 24th March 2009, 18:15   #98
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People are quoting 170+ speeds as though it is something to brag about. Our highways are not meant for such speeds. Relax and enjoy driving carefully.

Recently, one person from RNS motors came to our house, inspected my 6 year old Maruti 800, topped up coolant for free, gave a couple of freebies and even ran a battery test for 25 bucks! You can never get better service than this. Can I really talk the same about my FIAT? No way! Tata service is not nightmarish, but its really no comparison.
Does that mean I consider my FIAT car less vfm than a Maruti in the same price range? Not true. I had to make 5 calls to get a brake pads for my car. But that happened once in 3 years. So for all the positives I get from the car, I cannot be unfair to give a bad opinion based on 3 hours extra spent on service in 3 years. From the nightmares that few Skoda owners are facing, I am in a much better situation !! VFM is actually a confusing term. What might be VFM for me may be a total disaster for another person (which is why most of you do not agree to Amit's views about NVH). I might give a better score for a car with brilliant suspension, chassis, ride quality and others may just laugh at me. Test drive is the ultimate decider. Well sometimes test drives let you make decisions with your heart too

One point I had about sx4 is that the high ground clearance gives a clear view of the silencer/exhaust. It seems to be shaking on most sx4's that I have seen. May be it just that its not visible in other cars in which case
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Old 24th March 2009, 19:13   #99
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Originally Posted by kvish View Post
Recently, one person from RNS motors came to our house, inspected my 6 year old Maruti 800, topped up coolant for free, gave a couple of freebies and even ran a battery test for 25 bucks!
I was in in-laws place in Adyar, Chennai once and there was a knock on the door. We opened it half-expecting a sales guy, but a guy with a Maruti cap was smiling. He said they were servicing Maruti cars nearby and since he saw some in the parking lot, he was calling us in. And then he said it's free.

I got a coolant topping, oil topping (not replacement), battery check and a general cleanup for free by the road side. And got it done for 3 of our (Maruti) cars.

I chewed and relished the fruits of competition.

Service and competition aren't THE deciding factor, but then, like I mentioned somewhere.. can you be damn sure if you could get a specific Ford or Chevy or a Fiat model serviced cheap and without hassles 5 years down the line? 10 years? That's really where Maruti and Hyundai stand out.
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Old 24th March 2009, 19:32   #100
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
So if the SX4 is dead at 2500rpm (like you say), that is a pretty serious concern. Haven't TD-ed the SX4 so have no idea, but what do other owners feel about this ?
It is definitely NOT dead until 2500. It IS dead under 1000 (but you don't use it, do you), sluggish (& sometimes bumpy in 2nd gear) between 1000 and 1500 (wish it were better in this zone), and definitely ok after 1500 rpm.

From 2000 rpm is where you really start LOVING to drive the car, and you could upshift if needed. Which also explains why it's great on open roads and highways as opposed to bumper to bumper traffic.
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Old 24th March 2009, 23:26   #101
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Last few posts here just confirmed that when it comes to our "beloved" manufacturer, we can't hear a single word against it.

When someone favours a manufacturer/ car, we dig deep first, pip into his garage, find out that he owns that car from that mfr & then try to establish that his views are biased.

When someone who owns a car crticizes it, what is it? a reality? a forthright ownership experience? else what is his motivation to criticize his prized possession for which he has forked out 8 Lacs (how many times we've seen people try to justify their purchase decision even for a non-expensive item)?

Had Amit posted some issues with his Palio instead of SX4, can you imagine what would hv happened? He would have earned adjectives like Honest, Forthright by the very same people

Lack of Finnesse, smoothness, ride quality, manourability are found wanting in SX4 in addition to the issue of sluggishness at low-rpm. While I can not accept it, some others would. It's also possible that they do not feel the above issues strongly based on relativity & expectation from their car. That's why they contiue to ride SX4 & other Maruti cars appreciating them & I continue to ride other cars appreciating them.

Amit - There is no point breaking heads here justifying with your detailed report posted much much earlier which included car's strengths & also weaknesses. As I mentioned earlier in another post that when it comes to our "beloved" manufacturer, we give special privileges & your ownership report would invite "SX4 baiter" used earlier in this thread
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Old 25th March 2009, 08:30   #102
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When someone who owns a car crticizes it, what is it? a reality? a forthright ownership experience? else what is his motivation to criticize his prized possession for which he has forked out 8 Lacs (how many times we've seen people try to justify their purchase decision even for a non-expensive item)?
true true. i dont take amit's view in wrong sense nor i would call him a baiter. after all one knows well about the car he owns!!
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Old 25th March 2009, 08:41   #103
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Originally Posted by VahanPujari View Post
Lack of Finnesse, smoothness, ride quality, manourability are found wanting in SX4 in addition to the issue of sluggishness at low-rpm.
Now comes another one with the same issues...

A lot of ppl have made this point including Supremebaleno that you have a chance to TD the car and then buy it...Maruti hasnt forced anyone to buy a car,nor do you get to save taxes by buying a Maruti...

So TD one...If you like one,buy it...Else dont....Every car has positives as well as negatives...Thats why someone buys a SX4,someone a Linea,some ANHC,Fiesta or Aveo...

Amit has also mentioned that he is happy with the SX4 and there are some issues....But the positives were given in a diff thread and he has now clarified it..

I own a 3.5 yr old Swift and am extremely extremely happy with it....

And I could find loads of satisfied SX4 owners like Meer,Anant,Spetnaz...
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Old 25th March 2009, 09:51   #104
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@V.Pujari, no one has any issues with pointing out problems in any car, irrespective of make/manufacturer. And anyway, if there is something wrong with a model, it cannot be hidden - it will come to the fore. Just that blanket statements do not go down with others using the same car. Can't really fault them for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VahanPujari
When someone favours a manufacturer/ car, we dig deep first, pip into his garage, find out that he owns that car from that mfr & then try to establish that his views are biased.
You really go around checking garages ? Man, that is not really required. All you need to do is check out a few posts and you would get the drift.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VahanPujari
When someone who owns a car crticizes it, what is it? a reality? a forthright ownership experience? else what is his motivation to criticize his prized possession for which he has forked out 8 Lacs
One motivation I see is that the SX4 here is pitted against a Linea. And it is no secret that he is a Fiat fan. He might be owning a Suzuki, but that does not in any way change the fact that his loyalties lie with Fiat - ofcourse nothing wrong in that because to each his own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VahanPujari
Had Amit posted some issues with his Palio instead of SX4, can you imagine what would hv happened?
You wanna know what would have happened ? The replies would not have been civil like it has been in this thread - inspite of the fact that he is a Fiat fan, he would have been torn apart for committing the sacrilege of casting aspersions on Fiat. Doubt me ? Move around the forum and check out Fiat-related threads and you would understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VahanPujari
While I can not accept it, some others would. That's why they contiue to ride SX4 & other Maruti cars appreciating them & I continue to ride other cars appreciating them.
A page or so ago you mentioned about owning an Ikon (which variant?) and have now booked a Linea. Do you mean to imply that these cars are perfect and do not have any shortcomings ? I guess not. No car is perfect and I can point out a dozen failings in them due to which I would not buy them. But that does not make them bad cars - just that they do not meet my requirements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VahanPujari
As I mentioned earlier in another post that when it comes to our "beloved" manufacturer, we give special privileges & your ownership report would invite "SX4 baiter" used earlier in this thread
Whether you agree or not, we all have certain manufacturers that we believe are good, based on our user experience. And this is not just about cars, but just about any product you can think of which we use. So, let us not try to make it seem as if this is some disease that afflicts only Suzuki users. Move on...
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Old 25th March 2009, 10:21   #105
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Originally Posted by joy_swift View Post
Now comes another one with the same issues...
-----------
And I could find loads of satisfied SX4 owners like Meer,Anant,Spetnaz...
That's why I mentioned that they continue to ride SX4 & other Maruti Cars appreciating them (& are happy) & I continue to ride other cars appreciating them (& am happy). What is not acceptable to me can be acceptable to them. That doesn't make SX4 a bad car or Maruti a bad mfr.

Well I TD'ed both SX4 & Dzire not once but twice last month (also driven friends' SX4 few times earlier) as they were on top of my list for my new sedan. I got disappointed first time. Still there was this urge to go for it (for Maruti's obvious strengths & friends/ relatives strong opinions), hence gave it one more shot & TD'ed them again only to get disappointed again.

The trade-off between these issues & Maruti's (or SX4's) other strengths was the key deciding factor. On one side Maruti's obvious strengths were pulling me making my decision really tough one to go against it, on the other side I just could not ignore all these issues. Finally, the Ride Quality, Smoothness, Manouverability won & I've decided on another car for which I'm expecting delivery in Apr 1st week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
@V.Pujari, no one has any issues with pointing out problems in any car, irrespective of make/manufacturer. And anyway, if there is something wrong with a model, it cannot be hidden - it will come to the fore. Just that blanket statements do not go down with others using the same car. Can't really fault them for that.
SupremeBaleno - Pls read my post on this thread posted 15 minutes back mentioning that all these issues do not make SX4 car a bad car & Maruti a bad mfr.

I do not love Ford (being Ikon Owner) else would have bought Fiesta nor do I love Fiat (never bought a Fiat, buying it 1st time with butterflies in stomach for obvious reasons!)

By Garage I meant t-bhp garage.

Amit owns both cars. And he has every rights to feel the way he is feeling for each car based on performance of both the cars over a sufficeint long period of time. That doesn't mean he should attract adj like "SX4 baiter". And you've seen his earlier posts & accepted what he was saying, right? Do you still think, people were right in bashing him?

No, I'm not saying Ford Ikon is perfect nor Linea is perfect. All I can say is I could not trade-off issues mentioned here (Ride quality etc), while I took risk of Trade-off in may be A.S.S. Whereas some people would do other way round. That doesn't mean SX4 is a bad car or Linea is a bad car (repeatation again). Its basically which side of the equilibrium is it acceptable to you for a trade-off.

Last edited by khan_sultan : 25th March 2009 at 11:08. Reason: back to back posts
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