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Old 8th April 2009, 14:33   #46
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SS traveller

The ACI survey data is incorrect.

Verna CRDi
Air filter - 335
Oil Filter - 295
Fuel Filter - 1600
Timing belt - 1832
Fan belt - 1600
Front pads - 1450

Last edited by kpzen : 8th April 2009 at 14:35.
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Old 8th April 2009, 14:58   #47
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Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
I told you - my car will be going in for a 3M coating soon. I'll cross check FIAT's claimed numbers with their CRM and post any info I get. Do read before going mental at me.

Then why don't you declare if the data published is correct or wrong *after* you check the numbers? What's the point in going ballistic about Fiat's so called "fake marketing stunt" till then?

I have nothing against you or your car or your manufacturer. (I own a Honda, if not a car).

Last edited by RX135 : 8th April 2009 at 15:01.
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Old 8th April 2009, 15:17   #48
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Originally Posted by RX135 View Post

Then why don't you declare if the data published is correct or wrong *after* you check the numbers? What's the point in going ballistic about Fiat's so called "fake marketing stunt" till then?

I have nothing against you or your car or your manufacturer. (I own a Honda, if not a car).
RX135 - See, its a fashion to bash Fiat which is a favourite whipping boy of some people. Just to give you an example - When Fiat said the Service interval is 15,000 kms, some people laughed at it saying its because they can't handle service issues, Fiat doesn't want customers to visit service station frequently to keep service issues within control, Tata alliance is a weaklink causing this etc etc etc. When VW released advertisement saying Jetta's service interval as 15000 kms claiming it as a USP, the same people said - wow, what a car, what a confidence VW has on car performance. So you see, there it goes.
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Old 8th April 2009, 15:33   #49
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@VahanPujari, I'll not go into Fiat/Anti-Fiat debate here. The reason being that, I see that you are new to the forum and I have been around on forum for more than 4.5 years. I have been part of many such debates in the past and I have stopped participating in them now. Some things are just not going to change and one has to live with it.

So, let's focus on Linea/Verna discussion. We haven't heard yet what the buyer is looking for. So, everyone is still shooting in dark with power/FE/***/Brand/VFM/spares et al
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Old 8th April 2009, 16:42   #50
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hi

IMO, tell your friend to go for the Linea MJD Epack. I live in Ahmedabad, and I know all the issues with the traffic here. I have TDed almost every car in the category both petrols and diesels and have done extensive research on teh net ( mainly thanks to tbhp ).


I can tell you that Linea is a much better choice:

- New car and fantastic looks, Verna is nowhere
- Interiors I prefer over Verna
- It is much better planted then Verna at high speeds ( verna wobbles at 130km + )
- Gizmos - Blue & Me et al, is the first in its class or near its class
- Tried and tested Engine and a 15K service interval with lowest spare costs
- Above all safety, Airbags is a necessity


Some might argue:

- Verna has a powerful engine, yes it does, but when do you require to use it in Ahmedabad ? I have an Accent, never even used it to the full-pedal, except on highways.

- A** - yes it cannot be compared to Hyundai, but how many times will you visit the A** if you have a fantastic car with a 15k service interval ?

Hyundai makes good cars, I have owned one for several years, but that does not mean Fiat makes bad cars, just because their A** is tainted in India, there is no great reason to discard the product, and with TATA coming in, things look much better than they were.

Hope this helps.
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Old 8th April 2009, 16:47   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
@VahanPujari, I'll not go into Fiat/Anti-Fiat debate here. The reason being that, I see that you are new to the forum and I have been around on forum for more than 4.5 years. I have been part of many such debates in the past and I have stopped participating in them now. Some things are just not going to change and one has to live with it.

So, let's focus on Linea/Verna discussion. We haven't heard yet what the buyer is looking for. So, everyone is still shooting in dark with power/FE/***/Brand/VFM/spares et al
RX-135 - Look at my previous post written to the threadstarter on inputs based on my understanding of what buyer is looking at.

On your 2nd point, its the only logical answer one could think of on your queries irrespective of whether it relates to an earlier debate or not.
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Old 8th April 2009, 17:49   #52
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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
I hope this will suffice. Anywhere that Fiat is quoting a lesser price for Linea parts than Palio MJD parts (such as fuel filter, timing belt, radiator hose set, light assemblies, body panels etc.), I am inclined to accept it with a pinch of salt.
With due respects, it is actually cheaper to own, maintain (and replace the "Common / Regular" parts) a Linea as compared to a Palio MJD. And I am saying based on factual price lists I have compared some time back. I felt bad as a palio MJD owner, but that is the truth.

The Verna is an excellent car and its sales numbers prove it. But the only way a Linea can be costlier to maintain is frequent parts failures, since it has a longer service interval, too.

The Linea parts are well-priced and heavily indigenised. I am saying this irrespective of any pro- / anti- Fiat bias, whatsoever.

P.S. I have to believe the price lists that the company provides, whether it's a marketing stunt or not. The only other way I can see is to buy all the parts myself, something I do not find desirable so early on in my ownership experience.

Last edited by architect : 8th April 2009 at 17:50.
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Old 8th April 2009, 19:53   #53
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Originally Posted by RX135 View Post

Then why don't you declare if the data published is correct or wrong *after* you check the numbers? What's the point in going ballistic about Fiat's so called "fake marketing stunt" till then?

I have nothing against you or your car or your manufacturer. (I own a Honda, if not a car).
Precedent I suppose?

Besides, why would you believe anything on any manufacturer's website? The Superb V6 has 2.66 valves per cylinder according to Skoda.
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Old 8th April 2009, 22:03   #54
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First off, this thread seems to be getting a little too personal for my comfort. I would be happy if members desist from making personal assaults.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
Why are we talking about Palio spares when the comparison is between Verna Diesel and Linea Diesel? I am not sure how old is ACI data, and hence its relevance, but Fiat had recently cut down (Fiat announces reduction in Palio spare prices!) even Palio spare prices by almost 40% as posted in another thread (Fiat announces reduction in Palio spare prices!). If you don't trust Fiat's own data for parts on their own cars, who else do you trust then?
The Palio spare prices link you posted continues to show a timing belt to cost Rs.2036 as on October 2008. The ACI data are from their January 2009 issue and reflect the same. Since the Palio MJD and Linea D share the same engine, I have been wondering why the same part of the same engine should cost about half in a bigger car than in a smaller car, and would be obliged if you can explain the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VahanPujari View Post
do we believe all the Car brochures published by MFR's? We do or we do not?
We do, Vahan, but with a small amount of skepticism at times. That's why the comment above.
Petrol: 1700 km/11 FE = 154 litres * Rs. 44.55 = Rs. 6885/month
Diesel: 1700 km/14 FE = 121 litres * Rs. 34.45 = Rs. 4168/month

i.e. difference of Rs. 2716/month savings
I agree with you on that. Sometimes the economics of buying a diesel are poorer than buying a petrol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpzen View Post
The ACI survey data is incorrect.

Verna CRDi
Air filter - 335
Oil Filter - 295
Fuel Filter - 1600
Timing belt - 1832
Fan belt - 1600
Front pads - 1450
That's cheaper than the ACI data.
Quote:
Originally Posted by architect View Post
With due respects, it is actually cheaper to own, maintain (and replace the "Common / Regular" parts) a Linea as compared to a Palio MJD.
@ architect: I would like you also to explain the timing belt pricing issue.

The Verna is an excellent car and its sales numbers prove it. But the only way a Linea can be costlier to maintain is frequent parts failures, since it has a longer service interval, too.
The same engine in the Swift is recommended by Maruti to be serviced at 10k km intervals. So also the Indica Vista QJ and Palio MJD, I believe. And Linea's recommendation is for 15K km. This cannot be justified without an increase in wear-and-tear on the engine and resultant reduction in engine life, which in any case is doing a lot more work in the Linea than in the Swift.

I'm just comparing the two cars from a mechanic's viewpoint. loving_alaap and his friend, of course, will finally let us know what they choose to buy, and that may totally be contrary to any of our advice.
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Old 8th April 2009, 22:34   #55
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I have test driven both cars twice.

Verna is better than Linea in power and A.S.S.
Linea easily trumps the Verna in rest all factors (Features, space, NVH, stability, handling).
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Old 8th April 2009, 22:35   #56
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And since when did we start comparing a donkey and horse on performance and looks.

The LINEA like everywhere else in the world would be superlative if it had the 1.9 L D instead of the offered 1.3 L. 24 BHP of difference in power and almost a similar price is too much to accept and compromise.

I am not anti fiat because what they make is certainly unbeatable. But what they offer here is unacceptable. Imagine they could offer a naturally aspirated 1.7 D in the fiat UNO in 2001 and are offering a 1.3 L TDI in 2009.

Struggling to reach speeds of 100kms would not really leave much room to admire your interiors.

KUCH to SONCHO.
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Old 8th April 2009, 23:36   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
First off, this thread seems to be getting a little too personal for my comfort. I would be happy if members desist from making personal assaults.
I am sorry if anything I have written on this thread or any other to make anybody feel like that. No intentions of that kind whatsoever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
The same engine in the Swift is recommended by Maruti to be serviced at 10k km intervals. So also the Indica Vista QJ and Palio MJD, I believe. And Linea's recommendation is for 15K km. This cannot be justified without an increase in wear-and-tear on the engine and resultant reduction in engine life, which in any case is doing a lot more work in the Linea than in the Swift.
The Swift Diesel has a 10,000 km Service Interval, Palio MJD has a 7500 km service interval and Linea MJD has a 15,000 kms service interval. Except for the slightly different location of air filters and the VGT on the Linea, the engine seems to be the same to a layperson like me.

Is Maruti being over-cautious with the Service Interval? Why does the Palio play it so safe (with 7500 kms) while Linea's service interval is twice of that? Honestly, I don't know. I can only say that the manufacturer's recommendation can be assumed to be correct and can be followed.

Regarding the spares, all I can say is that the Linea spares like headlamp, rear windscreen etc are cheaper as compared to Palio due to heavy localisation. Quite a few Palio Stile parts are still imported and will remain so due to the low numbers it sells here. Regarding engine parts like timing belt etc, I hope the Palio spares are also available at the same price soon, because the prices I have with me are Nov 2008 prices while Linea prices are March 2009.

That said, the idea is that the thread starter should not get an erroneous impression of spare parts and maintenance costs. All of us here know that the Verna is an excellent car and has much better performance than the Linea, anyday. We also know how bad or good Fiat or Hyundai are as regards After Sales Support.
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Old 9th April 2009, 00:45   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
The same engine in the Swift is recommended by Maruti to be serviced at 10k km intervals. So also the Indica Vista QJ and Palio MJD, I believe. And Linea's recommendation is for 15K km. This cannot be justified without an increase in wear-and-tear on the engine and resultant reduction in engine life, which in any case is doing a lot more work in the Linea than in the Swift.
I remember reading somewhere that they will use synthetic oil in the Linea which would easily explain the 15k service interval.
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Old 9th April 2009, 00:53   #59
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Precedent I suppose?

Besides, why would you believe anything on any manufacturer's website? The Superb V6 has 2.66 valves per cylinder according to Skoda.
If everything on manufacturer's website is not be believed, I should be getting Honda Civic at Nano's price and it should be producing 32 BHP instead of 132 BHP. But you and I both know, that's not right. Why? Is the data on manufacturer's website correct only because it comes from a certain "hallowed" manufacturer?

No one would believe if Fiat says their A/S/S is better than Maruti, but give them credit where it's due, rather than taking random potshots.

@SS-Traveller, if you are still hell bent on comparing Palio-D and Verna-D spares instead of Linea-D and Verna-D spares, I've nothing to add here.
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Old 9th April 2009, 08:29   #60
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Christ man, you are incorrigible. I hope your shares give you good return.
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