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Old 12th April 2009, 14:16   #1
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Default Help Me Choose a Diesel Car

I have been driving a Maruti 800 for the last 12 years and it is time to get something better. In the last 12 years, my car has done about 60000 km and that comes to about 425 km a month. Staying inside the campuses, where home and office are co-located, the daily running was limited.

Now I am re-located to Delhi, where the distance between the home and office will be more. This fact, coupled with the need to drop the kids to their schools will mean that monthly running will be about 800 km a month or more. Hence the diesel. (There is another reason, which i will cover later).

We are a family of four (with two daughters, who keep fighting for space on the rear seat. Can't blame them - 800 was really tight on space). My mother will be occasionally traveling with us, therefore the car should be able to seat five comfortably.

I have shortlisted following four cars in increasing order of their Ex-showroom prices:-
a. Indica Vista TDI
b. Indigo CS LS TDI
c. Indica Vista Quadrajet
d. Ford Ikon TDCI

Did not consider Swift because its rear seat is alleged to be cramped and Dzire diesel has a waiting period of eight months. And Palio's sales are nothing to write home about.

Taking Indica Vista TDI Aqua as base, the incremental cost of other cars will be :-
a. Indigo CS LS +36,000/-
b. Indica Vista Aqua Quadrajet +46,000/-
c. Indica Vista Aura Quadrajet +70,000/-
d. Ford Ikon Diesel +1,07,000/-

The car will primarily be used in Delhi for next 3 - 4 years with an occasional trip of 4-500km, max once in two months.

Going through various posts on TBHP, i am worried about the following issues about these cars:-
Indigo CS LS - It is good looking and cheap to buy. But the quality is an issue. Also, when quadrajet engine is available, going for TDI engine will be a retrograde step (no offence meant to anyone). Is the car reliable? The last thing one wants is getting stuck in the middle of nowhere.

Indica Vista - Few quality issues and does not have a boot.

Ford Ikon - A S S and resale value. Also I am six feet tall and 100kg. Ford Ikon driver seat is low and getting in and out is difficult.

The car is going to be bought on 100% loan on real long tenure (10-12 years). The EMI per lakh will be about 1300. Considering that diesel car costs approx a lakh more than the comparable petrol variant, i will spend 1300 per month more on EMI. I will save the same amount due to difference between running costs of Petrol and diesel. My monthly outgo (EMI + Fuel) on petrol and diesel cars will be identical. And every additional km that i drive (above monthly 800 km) will save me additional money. Hence the diesel.

Guys, help me choose the car from the ones that i have shortlisted. Or do you suggest some other, better alternative.

Thanx for your time.

-Navneet
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Old 12th April 2009, 15:39   #2
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Since you are planning to jump from a maruti vehicle to a tata ,first the standard warning about tata quality in general. Tata vehicles have a high chance of being defective, though the chances have reduced, they still exist. And tata's service is nowhere near maruti's.Tata vehices are abused when they are in stock, unsold, and while they are given for service. so if you plan to buy one , order a colour not in stock, and get it they day it arrives!
1. the indigo CS
the only quality issues with the Indigo CS which are not there in the vista is the panel gaps and the feel/fit and finish of the plastics. build wise, its quite sturdy.Since it shares a large number of parts with the existing indica/indigo, spares should be cheap, and should be serviceable just about anywhere. Would suggest you buy the LX. the extra equipment is worth it.Also the driving position is a bit uncomfortable
2. Vista TDI. same engine as the indigo cs, but bigger and more spacious. by far the most VFM car of the lot. negatives are the lack of refinement ( uses the same tata engine , so its a bit noisy). the TDI engine is a proven unit, and is running on countless indigos and indica turbo's ( including mine ) and is quite sturdy, and cheap to maintain
3.Vista Quadrajet. a more refined and more driveable engine. buy if you feel it is worth the extra amount

all vistas face problems like the beading in the windows being loose and causing leaks, and the soft feel coating on the plastics peeling off. so be careful about these

ikon is a good car, but just like the front seat, the rear seat is also pretty low, and your mother is not going to like getting in and out of it.
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Old 12th April 2009, 15:51   #3
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Navneet, a Swift VDi is my daily ride and the experience so far has been fabulous <touchwood>

Coming to the rear space, it is definitely less if you compare it to an Indica or an Ikon, but otherwise quite sufficient for an adult and two kids. So take your family out for a TD, and see if they are comfortable. And the front seats are sweeeeeeeet.

Out of the cars that you have listed, I would suggest the Quadrajet. Its a fabulous engine thought there will be some minor niggles like there are with all Tata cars.

All said and done, my suggestion -- Wait for Maruti to launch Ritz diesel in May. I have a hunch that will be your perfect car.
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Old 12th April 2009, 16:11   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navneet View Post
I have shortlisted following four cars in increasing order of their Ex-showroom prices:-
a. Indica Vista TDI
b. Indigo CS LS TDI
c. Indica Vista Quadrajet
d. Ford Ikon TDCI

Did not consider Swift because its rear seat is alleged to be cramped
Presuming that you have not driven the Swift D around, I would suggest that you take your entire family for a TD and make the choice of a new car in a more "democratic" manner.

IMHO you should not rule out the Swift D on the basis of mere "allegations".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Navneet View Post
Dzire diesel has a waiting period of eight months.
The Dzire does have a waiting period but it many not be eight months in all cases. You can try two to three dealers and it is definitely worth the wait!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Navneet View Post
Taking Indica Vista TDI Aqua as base, the incremental cost of other cars will be :-
a. Indigo CS LS +36,000/-
b. Indica Vista Aqua Quadrajet +46,000/-
c. Indica Vista Aura Quadrajet +70,000/-
d. Ford Ikon Diesel +1,07,000/-
Going through various posts on TBHP, i am worried about the following issues about these cars:-
Indigo CS LS - It is good looking and cheap to buy. But the quality is an issue. Also, when quadrajet engine is available, going for TDI engine will be a retrograde step (no offence meant to anyone). Is the car reliable? The last thing one wants is getting stuck in the middle of nowhere.

Indica Vista - Few quality issues and does not have a boot.

Ford Ikon - A S S and resale value. Also I am six feet tall and 100kg. Ford Ikon driver seat is low and getting in and out is difficult.
I feel that you are spot on with your observations and it's these observations which make me suggest that you should not go for the four cars mentioned by you.

The following would be my list for you in order of preference:
(i) Swift Dzire VDi or LDi (Depending of ready availability)
(ii) Swift Dzire VDi or Ldi (Your choice / Budget considerations)
(iii) Hyundai Getz D (If you really feel that the Swift does not suit you)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Navneet View Post
Guys, help me choose the car from the ones that i have shortlisted.
If it has to be from your list then go for the
(iv) Ikon D
(v) Vista Quadrajet

Going be green horn's comments (who is a Tata user) I would advise you not to go for any other Tata car except the Vista Quadrajet if you have no other option in mind.

Last edited by Gautam Misra : 12th April 2009 at 16:16.
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Old 12th April 2009, 16:33   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gautam Misra View Post
Going be green horn's comments (who is a Tata user) I would advise you not to go for any other Tata car except the Vista Quadrajet if you have no other option in mind.
I'm curious which comments of mine led you to this conclusion.
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Old 12th April 2009, 17:16   #6
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Hey guys, thanks for the prompt replies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gautam Misra View Post
Presuming that you have not driven the Swift D around, I would suggest that you take your entire family for a TD and make the choice of a new car in a more "democratic" manner.

IMHO you should not rule out the Swift D on the basis of mere "allegations".
I, indeed, have not driven the Swift. Will hold my opinion on space till I TD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gautam Misra View Post
Dzire does have a waiting period but it may not be eight months in all cases. You can try two to three dealers and it is definitely worth the wait!
Will ask a few dealers about the waiting period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gautam Misra View Post
The following would be my list for you in order of preference:
(i) Swift Dzire VDi or LDi (Depending of ready availability)
(ii) Swift Dzire VDi or Ldi (Your choice / Budget considerations)
(iii) Hyundai Getz D (If you really feel that the Swift does not suit you)
Did u mean to mention different cars at (ii) and (iii) above?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
Tata vehices are abused when they are in stock, unsold, and while they are given for service. so if you plan to buy one , order a colour not in stock, and get it they day it arrives!
Handy suggestion. will keep in mind, if it happens to be CS or Vista.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
Would suggest you buy the LX. the extra equipment is worth it.
I am an Air Force Officer and will be buying from the CSD. CS LX is presently not available through the CSD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
Vista Quadrajet. a more refined and more driveable engine. buy if you feel it is worth the extra amount.
At just 1300 per lakh EMI, extra amount is not a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
all vistas face problems like the beading in the windows being loose and causing leaks, and the soft feel coating on the plastics peeling off. so be careful about these
You mean ALL. That is a big negative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
ikon is a good car, but just like the front seat, the rear seat is also pretty low, and your mother is not going to like getting in and out of it.
That pretty much rules out Ikon.
Will wait for a few more days to home on to a particular car. In the meantime, please let your opinions coming. Thanx once more.
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Old 12th April 2009, 17:21   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
Navneet, a Swift VDi is my daily ride and the experience so far has been fabulous <touchwood>

Coming to the rear space, it is definitely less if you compare it to an Indica or an Ikon, but otherwise quite sufficient for an adult and two kids. So take your family out for a TD, and see if they are comfortable. And the front seats are sweeeeeeeet.

Out of the cars that you have listed, I would suggest the Quadrajet. Its a fabulous engine thought there will be some minor niggles like there are with all Tata cars.

All said and done, my suggestion -- Wait for Maruti to launch Ritz diesel in May. I have a hunch that will be your perfect car.
I would agree. I would not recommend the Ikon though I quite like it - your tenure of ownership screams for a new car - Vista Quadrajet it will have to be.

Personally i don't trust Tata one bit given the niggles, but YMMV. If you decide to buy in Gurgaon - I may have a couple of tata contacts which may help smoothen process and atleast avoid a lemon!

Coming to my 12800km so far with the VDi (should be 15k within the month!) - the ONLY problem (besides the toylike EPS and the crap OEM tyres) discovered on Friday was that at 130+, I could hear wind noise - only in the driver's seat and nowhere else. till 100-120 its quiet inside.

Oh and yes, what rattles so far (only on bad roads) is the internal RVM. On bad roads of himachal (think bilaspur/barmana ACC factory), driven at 60-80, everything inside made noise.

Other than that, its been a complete peace of mind vehicle. I cannot find one tenth as many Tata vehicles which can claim that (unless you neglect the niggles and warranty replacements).

And I'd hold the same but better opinion about Hyundai as well.

Coming to that perspective - I would honestly recommend a Hyundai i10 Kappa Magna. A friend recently was surveying and got quotes of around 4.05L all inclusive before hard bargaining. And that car's performance (together with 14kpl mileage) is to die for. Honestly, under 1200-1500km isnt worth a diesel (esp if you are PARANOID about turbo idling like I am).
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Old 12th April 2009, 17:40   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
Tata vehicles have a high chance of being defective, though the chances have reduced, they still exist. And tata's service is nowhere near maruti's.Tata vehices are abused when they are in stock, unsold, and while they are given for service.

....all vistas face problems like the beading in the windows being loose and causing leaks, and the soft feel coating on the plastics peeling off. so be careful about these
Forgive me mate, if I have misunderstood your post.
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Old 12th April 2009, 17:59   #9
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Firstly in Delhi a Hatch makes more sense then a sedan. But a sedan is anyday more safe then a Hatch on the highway's and since you will be carrying small kids in the back a sedan on the highway's would be preferred.

Coming to the choices you have put i would go with Vista in case of a hatch and Ikon in case of a Sedan. But at the same time i would also recommend looking at the newly launched Linea. I know its a FIAT car but its a good car for the price and looks better then anything available at that price. FE is also great and its a good city car. The only problem is that its a long car so driving in bumper to bumper traffic and finding a parking space for the same would be tricky.
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Old 12th April 2009, 18:04   #10
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Hi, the palio multijet's a nice engine and the swift and tata (quadra) engines are variants of the same. My recommendations would be:
1) Swift VDi(love the turbo on it and im sure you will love its mileage as well as ride. Trust me if your doing 800kms get yourself a car that you will enjoy and an added factor is maruti service and spare costs)
2)Fiat diesel
3)Indica/renault
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Old 12th April 2009, 20:54   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gautam Misra View Post
Forgive me mate, if I have misunderstood your post.
no offence taken.


for those of you asking him to wait for the splash. The supply of the MJD engines for maruti is already in short supply. what makes you think the situation will improve after the launch of the splash. I think the waiting periods will only get worse, and that is one of the things hes doesnt want.

btw, 8~9 months is too much, unless you're looking at the ZDi . the LDi/VDi should be available in half the time , and less if you are willing to accept what the dealer might think of selling you
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Old 12th April 2009, 21:12   #12
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Navneet, very well thought-out and explained initial post. The precision in knowing what you're looking for has certainly helped members give you their inputs easily!

Are you sure you've done your calculations clearly as far as the monthly EMI+fuel spending is correct? I'm no expert, but I've read that the break-even occurs only with a monthly running of 2000-odd km, and that below that the savings on diesel fuel do not justify the extra initial price difference and higher maintenance costs. Of course 2000 km is an average figure, and with the long timeframe you're looking at the figure could be lower. I'm too mathematically challenged to work it out for myself
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Old 12th April 2009, 21:16   #13
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navneet with a running of 800 odd kms a month, give petrol cars a thought. though the fun of driving a diesel is completely different.
indica is more solid in terms on build quality. there are quality problems with tata and i have faced it. swift vdi is a very nice car but the quality of plastic used is horrible. both car have a real good engine and VFM.
but with regards to service, i would rate swift higher than indica quadrajet.
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Old 12th April 2009, 21:23   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by white_vdi View Post
navneet with a running of 800 odd kms a month, give petrol cars a thought. though the fun of driving a diesel is completely different.
OT: In fact, some might say the fun in driving is almost absent with a diesel Others will differ, of course.
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Old 12th April 2009, 21:56   #15
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Quote:
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OT: In fact, some might say the fun in driving is almost absent with a diesel Others will differ, of course.
hi as a person who has driven both petrol and diesel extensively -- both have their pros and cons -- hope you have driven both before reaching the above conclusion.

Navneet -- consider both petrol and diesel cars looking at your driving distance for the monthly avg distance as well as your budget -- if you are looking at putting a family of 4 adults with a kid in the car -- the Indigo CS is the choice if it has to be a car with a boot ( the ikon is a low slung car and senior members in the family might not exactly favor it); else you can go for the Indica vista tdi or quadrajet
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