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Old 23rd June 2009, 15:06   #16
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Originally Posted by neotraveller View Post
How do you guys drive the Honda city?
Do you rev till 4k rpm in each gear?
Is that the way to drive a petrol car (irrespective of whether its a Honda or not) ?
If you want the best performance (not economy!) then try and keep the revs between just below the peak torque and just beyond the peak power. Shift accordingly.

This applies equally to diesels and petrols.
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Old 23rd June 2009, 18:28   #17
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Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
Its your driving style that made it look dull. Petrol engines dont produce enough low end torque as compared to a turbo diesel, so you need to keep the revvs higher in order to extract performance out of it.

With a power to weight ratio of 105bhp/ton, its the quickest production car in its class.

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New to the car language!!
So can someone please explain the terminologies!! 'Low end torque', revvs etc.
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Old 23rd June 2009, 19:22   #18
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Does the Automatic of ANHC slower than the manual, if so can any one compare boths acceleration, initial pickup etc. Does the top speed also varies among both the AT and manual?
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Old 23rd June 2009, 20:57   #19
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The auto is slower I believe. Only cars with advanced gearboxes like the Skoda DSGs are faster in auto guise. Top speed, I don't know.
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Old 23rd June 2009, 21:08   #20
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Originally Posted by sathyaprakash View Post
Does the Automatic of ANHC slower than the manual, if so can any one compare boths acceleration, initial pickup etc. Does the top speed also varies among both the AT and manual?
If you are talking about doing a 0-100 kmph dash and compare them, manual should be faster by couple of seconds then the auto.
However if you use the paddle-shifts in 'S' mode on the auto, it should be as quick as the manual version.
But in real life situation, AT would feel quicker, especially in overtaking scenarios due to the kickdown.
Regarding the top speed, AT may reach the higher top speed as it seems to have taller 5th gear...just a guess.

Last edited by Guna : 23rd June 2009 at 21:19.
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Old 23rd June 2009, 22:12   #21
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Quote:
If you are talking about doing a 0-100 kmph dash and compare them, manual should be faster by couple of seconds then the auto.
However if you use the paddle-shifts in 'S' mode on the auto, it should be as quick as the manual version.
But in real life situation, AT would feel quicker, especially in overtaking scenarios due to the kickdown.
Regarding the top speed, AT may reach the higher top speed as it seems to have taller 5th gear...just a guess.
Honda's A/T is not like the DSG, so it would still be slower than a M/T irrespective of what mode it is in.

Even in terms of top speed, it doesn't matter how tall your 5th gear is, you will only go as fast as the various resistance factors allow you to. Infact having a very tall 5th gear ratio will increase load on the engine and reduce top speed (another reason why most cars hit their top speed in 4th).

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Old 23rd June 2009, 22:32   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
Honda's A/T is not like the DSG, so it would still be slower than a M/T irrespective of what mode it is in.

Even in terms of top speed, it doesn't matter how tall your 5th gear is, you will only go as fast as the various resistance factors allow you to. Infact having a very tall 5th gear ratio will increase load on the engine and reduce top speed (another reason why most cars hit their top speed in 4th).

Shan2nu
I think you are right about the top speed.
When you drive in 'S' mode and use paddle shifts, car holds till the redline in every gear. Wouldn't that make it as quick as conventional manual?
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Old 23rd June 2009, 23:16   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
Honda's A/T is not like the DSG, so it would still be slower than a M/T irrespective of what mode it is in.

Even in terms of top speed, it doesn't matter how tall your 5th gear is, you will only go as fast as the various resistance factors allow you to. Infact having a very tall 5th gear ratio will increase load on the engine and reduce top speed (another reason why most cars hit their top speed in 4th).

Shan2nu
Most cars hit top speed in fifth man. Even the ANHC hits a higher speed in fifth than fourth. Checked some ACI roadtests for that info. However, they don't hit the rev limiter in fifth but they do in fourth.
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Old 24th June 2009, 00:08   #24
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Sorry to hijack this thread.

Lets take example of My Linea specs here:
90ps @ 6000 rpm and 115 Nm @ 4500 rpm
At what rpm should I shift to get fastest pickup? 4500?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
If you want the best performance (not economy!) then try and keep the revs between just below the peak torque and just beyond the peak power. Shift accordingly.

This applies equally to diesels and petrols.

Last edited by neotraveller : 24th June 2009 at 00:10.
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Old 24th June 2009, 11:11   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neotraveller View Post
How do you guys drive the Honda city?
Do you rev till 4k rpm in each gear?
Is that the way to drive a petrol car (irrespective of whether its a Honda or not) ?
Generally, petrol cars need to be revved to get performance out of them. While your average diesel redlines at 4500RPM, your average Japanese petrol engine is only getting started at that point. My Civic doesn't really get going until the 3300-3500RPM mark. It pulling hard once it hits 4500RPM. If I'm driving hell to leather, I change up at 6800RPM, just below the limiter. If I let the box change automatically in S mode, it goes to somewhere slightly above the 7K mark before upshifting.

The point is that Honda (and generally all engines with a small stroke) love to be revved to bits. As someone said on TV, you revv and revv and revv until the valves start dancing on top of your bonnet and then change up. Some FIAT engines are also well known for their revv happy nature.

Last edited by ImmortalZ : 24th June 2009 at 11:15.
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Old 24th June 2009, 17:40   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neotraveller View Post
Sorry to hijack this thread.

Lets take example of My Linea specs here:
90ps @ 6000 rpm and 115 Nm @ 4500 rpm
At what rpm should I shift to get fastest pickup? 4500?
Incorrect. Shifting at 4500 rpm is not going to give you the best acceleration (though if you're driving with an eye on the fuel gauge, this should be a nice balance).

For maximum acceleration, there are three factors that come into play.
1) RPM of peak torque
2) RPM of peak power
3) Rev-loss while shifting. (When you upshift, engine revs will drop by a certain amount depending on the difference between the two gear ratios)

The acceleration of a car is best between the peak of the torque curve and peak of the power curve, i.e. between 4500 and 6000 rpm for your Linea. The ideal RPM for acceleration is therefore 5250 rpm. Now let's say your RPM drop for an upshift is 1500 rpm (again, shifting from 1st to 2nd produces a different RPM drop as compared to a shift from 2nd to 3rd and so on but for simplicity let's assume one constant RPM drop). Then the ideal upshifts should be at 6000 rpm so that in the next gear, you will again rev from 4500 to 6000 (avg 5250 rpm for this period) while accelerating. If your RPM drop is greater, say 2000 rpm, then an upshift at 6250 would be ideal as you'd then accelerate from 4250rpm to 6250rpm (again, average of 4250rpm and 6250rpm is 5250 rpm).

Feel free to ask for clearer explanation if you don't get what I mean

Last edited by McLaren Rulez : 24th June 2009 at 17:50.
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Old 24th June 2009, 20:07   #27
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The vTecs are a world apart, it is charm to drive the high revving beauties.
Check this site for more info on how the vtec works HowStuffWorks "What does the VTEC system in a Honda engine do?"

With Swift VDi (stock), All the power is between 2000 - 3500.
You have got load of power and torque in that range.

With the vtec, you have to change your driving style and shift way higher (5500 RPM and above) to experience the joy of it.

I still prefer the OHC for the direct driving experience it delivered.
Its only when the vtec kicks in can you feel the power of the car.

It would not be a BAD decision at all if you go with the ANHC (All New Honda City)
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Old 24th June 2009, 20:20   #28
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Quote:
Most cars hit top speed in fifth man. Even the ANHC hits a higher speed in fifth than fourth. Checked some ACI roadtests for that info. However, they don't hit the rev limiter in fifth but they do in fourth.
Thats bcoz your top speed in 4th is electronically limited and not aerodynamically limited.

Cars that cannot redline 4th, achieve their top speed in that gear. Shifting into 5th does not increase top speed.

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Old 24th June 2009, 21:47   #29
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Well as far as I know, there is no electronic limit on the ANHC in fourth.

ACI readings for ANHC for top speeds in each gear with rpm:
1st 53/7000
2nd 98/7000
3rd 141/7000
4th 174/7000
5th 190/6200

So the car hits its 7000rpm limit in fourth and when they shift to fifth they manage a higher speed. I still don't understand your concept fully. Could you elaborate? Though we're going off topic, I suppose its useful to learn a bit of info

Edit: The thread has already been hijacked by a Linea owner so its ok

Last edited by McLaren Rulez : 24th June 2009 at 21:49.
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Old 24th June 2009, 23:30   #30
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Quote:
Well as far as I know, there is no electronic limit on the ANHC in fourth.
Try revving the ANHC beyond 7000 rpm in 4th and see what happens. The "ECU" cuts the fuel supply to the engine until the revvs drop back below 7000. So the speed in 4th is being electronically controlled.

In comparison the OHC VTEC is capable of doing 207kmph in 4th, but since its aerodynamically limited to 185 (true speed), it only accelerates to around 6300-6400rpm in 4th (inspite of having a 7100rpm limit).

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 24th June 2009 at 23:31.
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