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Old 21st September 2009, 18:44   #16
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Out of the 4 cars you shortlisted I'd suggest the Optra.

You can get a good condition Optra with around 50 - 60k on the odo for about 3 Lacs ( a 2004 / 2005 model ). If lucky you might even get the variant which had Alloys & Sunroof !

The Optra is an excellent car and since you wanted space, you wil get loads of it. Space is a problem in the other cars. The Fusion is a tough find as it never sold too many.
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Old 21st September 2009, 22:17   #17
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@gto Personally I am not so comfortable with the driving position of baleno nor it's ride quality. No doubt it has a cool engine.

@vkochar I personally do like the optra and think it has great luxury as well as the driving position is better than quite sfew cars I had driven.

@newcool I think I still have my options very much open . And optra is within budget


No comments on indigo ?? I save around a lac if I get indigo .

Also wanted to know if I can use a 2 din in Amy other car other than optra

Last edited by rash28 : 21st September 2009 at 22:22.
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Old 21st September 2009, 23:09   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newcoolgadgets View Post
1. CNG converted petrol engines wear out more quickly.
2. CNG converted petrol engines suffer from lack of power.
3. CNG kits require constant maintainence (leakage, tuning etc)
4. CNG kits eat up your boot space, so even if you buy a Sedan, it is as good as a hatch utility wise.
5. CNG is not available all over the country and on highways.
@ rash28: Interesting debate there started by you. From your requirements, I see you do a 70 km drive each day, and obviously you want your car to be comfortable. And, I would say, reliable, with low cost and minimal turnaround time for servicing and minor repairs.

NCG's comments about CNG do hold true to some extent, but the savings you would accrue would far outweigh the downsides - at half the cost of running a diesel, with approximately 20-25k km of annual use, you stand to gain by using CNG.

The only downside I see (from the perspective of Delhi) is the frequent standing in queue every alternate day to tank up with CNG. If the CNG scenario in Mumbai is as good as Bapu says about Gujarat,
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5. The CNG availability in Gujarat is GREAT. Now almost all the major towns AND highways have CNG pumps. Drive in and Drive out does not take more than 15 mins.
it'll make things easier. But at Delhi, be prepared to spend half an hour (at least) for filling CNG, with occasional disruptions in supply exactly when you don't want it.

If you are not particular about sedans only, I would suggest a new co.-fitted CNG Santro - 100,000 km/5 yr. warranty, and the co. takes care of the CNG kit maintenance as well. At twice your budget, the Accent has a similar offer as well.
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Old 21st September 2009, 23:11   #19
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Just checking

Do you really need a sedan? If you going to drive it all the time, why not a Ritz VDI? It may fit your bill with required power and mileage. Given the fact you do 70km a day, Ritz VDI should be a perfect match.
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Old 22nd September 2009, 09:35   #20
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@sstraveller - CNG filling in mumbai is quite easy and not time consuming.thanks to the numerous taxi and rickshaws that there are ample pumps with seperate line for private vehicles.

@ampere I am not at all looking at a new Car and more over a hatch back. I want a three box sedan with petrol. I dont believe in buying new cars at least untill now. I would rather buy a 2006-007 sedan for the price of a new Hatch back.
Just my way of thinking.
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Old 22nd September 2009, 13:48   #21
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Originally Posted by vkochar View Post
Out of the 4 cars you shortlisted I'd suggest the Optra.

You can get a good condition Optra with around 50 - 60k on the odo for about 3 Lacs ( a 2004 / 2005 model ). If lucky you might even get the variant which had Alloys & Sunroof !
I totally agree.

rash28, Now that you mention that you specifically want a petrol, and the fact that you like the Optra so much, I suggest you do not rush and wait for the right Optra to turn up. It may take up to a month, but if you are patient and can do without a car for that long, you will find a good Optra in your budget. With the Cruze launch due anytime, the Optra's price will fall further in the 2nd hand market. You can discuss here any Optra's you find before buying it. This way you will be sure you will be buying a good car.

Last edited by newcoolgadgets : 22nd September 2009 at 13:50.
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Old 22nd September 2009, 14:12   #22
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1. CNG converted petrol engines wear out more quickly.
2. CNG converted petrol engines suffer from lack of power.
3. CNG kits require constant maintainence (leakage, tuning etc)


I have noticed this misconception is there with most of the people in india. i wud like to clarify on above points
1. CNG driven engines wearing out quickly: People have a misconception that if the engine is running on petrol or deisel it gets lubricated by petrol/deisel and since CNG is gas(dry) the engine will wear soon. This is totally wrong to get the max power out of the engine, burning fuel is need to be burnt totally in case of liquid fuel there is some percentage of fuel which remain unburnt (as the air/fuel mixture) and which in result turns in carbon and deposit on the valves and injectors. However gas being in gaseous form itself get burn 100% thus making the valves, fuel injectors, cylinder work for long without needing overhaul or cleaning. Any unburnt fuel (which is there in case of petrol/diesel) is harmful for engine, hence CNG is best to keep engine in good condition. For lubrication engine oil is provided.
2. The ocatne no. for CNG is higher than petrol or diesel. Higher octane means more heat energy and more heat energy means more power, so it is totally baseless to say the power loss is there once turned into CNG.It is basically effect of wrong tuning with CNG nothing else that makes power loss.
3. Maintenance is normal stuff u need to do it to maintain things, even fuel lines washer o-rings being replaced during servicing. so same way CNG need to be maintained.

I hope above clear doubts in people minds.
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Old 22nd September 2009, 15:43   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newcoolgadgets View Post
I totally agree.

rash28, Now that you mention that you specifically want a petrol, and the fact that you like the Optra so much, I suggest you do not rush and wait for the right Optra to turn up. It may take up to a month, but if you are patient and can do without a car for that long, you will find a good Optra in your budget. With the Cruze launch due anytime, the Optra's price will fall further in the 2nd hand market. You can discuss here any Optra's you find before buying it. This way you will be sure you will be buying a good car.
Totally agree on your point. Oct I think is when Cruz will be launched. By Dec/Jan you should be seeing many Optras in the User car market.

But only point to note is that the Cruz is being rated for 13-15L segment (guess). So I don't know what the GM will do to the Optra segment. Does it plan to continue with the Optra brand? In that case prices may not fall, Optra may also sell at 9-11L range.
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Old 22nd September 2009, 16:42   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mondymk3 View Post
2. The ocatne no. for CNG is higher than petrol or diesel. Higher octane means more heat energy and more heat energy means more power, so it is totally baseless to say the power loss is there once turned into CNG.It is basically effect of wrong tuning with CNG nothing else that makes power loss.
Octane number is purely an indication of the anti-knock property and not of energy content. A gas powered vehicle (CNG or LPG) will invariably develop less power than a petrol vehicle unless you have direct injection.

Say we have LPG - say butane-propane. Propane is C3H8. Full combustion of one molecule of Propane required (3+4) seven molecules of Oxygen. (CO2 + H2O). This fuel to oxygen ratio is 1:7.

Petrol is heptane C7H16. here full combustion of one molecule of Heptane will require (7+8) fifteen molecules of Oxygen. Fuel to Oxygen Ratio of 1:15.

Thus the volume fraction in the cylinder taken up by the fuel will be far lower for Heptane, thus resulting in higher amount of air and more power!

I realised this while attending a lecture of one Hydrogen expert. This is the worst case one molecule of Hydrogen requires half a molecule of Oxygen ie 2:1! He mentioned as to why they need direct injection for hydrogen.
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Old 22nd September 2009, 18:36   #25
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Octane number is purely an indication of the anti-knock property and not of energy content. A gas powered vehicle (CNG or LPG) will invariably develop less power than a petrol vehicle unless you have direct injection.
That is the only part I understood from the above. I am still trying to make sense of the rest. Not paying attention in the Chemistry class does not help either.

However, I have driven the same car (Wagon R) on Petrol and CNG and have experienced a perceptible drop in power.
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Old 22nd September 2009, 19:00   #26
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Default Optra Elite LS - 1.6 -

guys....considering to buy a used optra Elite LS 1.6, has done 35kms, is a Aug 06 model black. Has a few dents on the rear right door and front bonnet...best price quoted is 3.6....is this a GREAT deal?

Also am unsure whether the Elite VGIS delivers a mileage of 9 or is the same as the 1.6 Optra between 6-7 ( the Non Elite, Non VGIS engine) in terms of mileage

lastly, post arrival of the cruze would optra get tagged the way the current Opel Astra is and fall tremendously in terms of resale.....


cheers!!

Note from the Team-BHP Support Team : Please take the time to use proper punctuation as per Team-BHP rules. Avoid...typing...like...this. Thanks.

Last edited by Technocrat : 22nd September 2009 at 19:12. Reason: Please read the note in post, thanks
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Old 22nd September 2009, 19:07   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newcoolgadgets View Post
That is the only part I understood from the above. I am still trying to make sense of the rest. Not paying attention in the Chemistry class does not help either.

However, I have driven the same car (Wagon R) on Petrol and CNG and have experienced a perceptible drop in power.
Yes I agree . I could not make much out of it but I know that I had a LPG OHC 1.5 and it had absolutely no difference in power.

Recently I took a MEGA CAB ( Marina CNG) to the airport and found the driver to making way around like any thing. The pick up was awesome or least he was driving that way

Having Said this I am waiting for a good car to come around. One Question which no one has yet answered if there is any possibility of fitting a 2 DIN music system in a Single DIN car such as Indigo or Accent. ?

Another quick one , if I am supposed to convert to CNG any which ways should I take the 1.8 version or the 1.6 version of the Optra.
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Old 23rd September 2009, 16:57   #28
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What I am trying to say is essentially that as you move to lighter and lighter fuels (read LPG, CNG and Hydrogen in that order) the fraction of the cylinder which has to contain the fuel as against air/oxygen progressively increases. In the case of Hydrogen oxygen can only occupy half as much volume as hydrogen. In other words Fuel : oxidant is 2:1. Now with Oxygen only 20% of the air this becomes 2:5. Thus more and more of the cylinder is taken up by the fuel and less and less by the oxygen/air. Thus you have progressively less air to burnt the fuel with - and what you get is reduction in power. The total amount of stuff (fuel + air) actually being burnt is reduced!

I hope this is a bit clearer.
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