Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > What Car? > Sedans


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 28th September 2009, 19:36   #1
Senior - BHPian
 
amit_mechengg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,411
Thanked: 1,540 Times
Default Help! Pointers needed to inspect an OHC 1.5 Vtec before purchase

Now before i get to the main point i will briefly narrate the background of what all i have gone through :

1. First car in our family : Cielo,
Loved the car a lot. space-comfort-speed was the characteristic of the car. would rapidly reach 100 and cruise at 120 plus. sold it as soon as the side business/ firm shut down.

2. College life: always fascinated by flying Lancers and gypsys. this was a craze in pune during 2000-2002. always had a rebellious mind in me.
found a lancer done just ~28000 @ 3 lacs which belonged to a close friend of mine. his uncle was selling it and was a brand new like car.
Dad straight away ruled out the second hand option and literally kicked the thoughts of lancer out of my mind. tried to persuade mom too but in vain. my heart ached a lot.

3. Maruti Alto: my current car. was never interested in alto. i was insisting for either indica/indigo as my dad is working with TATA MOTORS.
but dads decision was if i want a car i will buy alto, otherwise i wont buy any. DAD doesnt require car as he has traveling facility from office, and as it is he has spinal cord problem so he avoids cars.
so with not so interest picked a brand new car from the showroom. started using it. slowly started loving it for its agility. my friends circle and me used the alto like a rally car. drove it like hell through mountains, ghats fields - almost all terrains.
voila- alto worked like a charm. no rattles no squeaks, never let me down.
i love my alto a lot, and will never part from it. with all the mods on alto, its very fast and quick for city driving. highway cruising manners are also very good. 120-140s are just normal for my alto.


now here comes all the " KIDA " in my mind. now i am earning well since 4 years. both me and my dad work for TATAs. so the thought of buying a new car which was going on through my mind since long time came out of me and i was shocked, dad said yes yes go ahead.

was using cousins swift VDi for 2-3 months. the adrenaline rush and power just amazed me. not a single moment i felt bored driving the swift D.

now i was not going to buy the swift, as the punto had made a place in my heart and mind. and yes it was a FIAT, with discount for TATA employees and a subsidized loan. rushed to TATA showroom, was greeted well and was offered a very long 8kms test drive.

drove in city as well as open stretch. something dint appeal me and let me down and killed many thoughts of mine which i was carrying before heading to the showroom.
" IT WAS SPEED" - dint find the adrenaline rush found on the same swift engine.
driving in city was pain, no turbo kick in 2nd gear and mild turbo kick in 3rd gear.
all i wanted in speed and rush like swift, but dint find it.

no offense to punto owners " I love punto a lot, after all i work with tata"
but the sole purpose of thinking of a new car is speed.

went home with very sad face, dint even carry the brochures.

4. Now thanks to t-bhp, the hot favorite car " OHC- Vtech" struck my mind.
explained mom and dad that this time please allow me for a second hand car. got a green signal for the same.
called up everyone in my network. some friends are already dealing in second hand car market.

a. OHC, aug-2003 - Mahindra first choice - 46000 - 3 lacs fixed price.
went for a test drive. the car refused to crank. was told that new battery needs to be fitted. i wonder what 118 point do they check on a car.

b. OHC, 2002- Some XYZ agent - 82000 - 2.5 lacs negotiable
took a test drive- clutch was damn hard, steering rack was damaged, car pulling to the left when braked. suspensions not so good. exterior was very good and so was the beige interior.

c. OHC Vtech 2001- car dealer- he says 61000 - 2.5 lacs negotiable
i doubt that meter has been tampered with. 2 OHC standing side by side had exact 61000 on the odo - coincidene ? NAH
Paint was good, interiors were clean. went for a test drive. clutch was a bit hard. wheel bearing noise from right front side. engine was butter smooth.

But, " i could not make out VTECH kicking in" tried 2-3 times but i am clueless as to how the VTECH should work.

now i am confused a lot. how do i differentiate 1.5 and Vtech. whats the potential of the VTECH. what all points should i keep in mind while buying a OHC.

Please guys help me, all sorts of questions are hovering over my mind. was desperate to get home the OHC on Dusserra. but these mighty dealers and lack of OHC knowledge ruined all my plans.

what model, which year, what price, what all points to test, how to test the performance. how do i drive to test them??

Thanks a TON in advance
amit_mechengg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2009, 20:24   #2
Senior - BHPian
 
vivekiny2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: cincinnati, jabalpur,chennai
Posts: 1,241
Thanked: 163 Times
Default

VTEC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ask yourself first. what are you expecting to see with a vtec? you are a mech engr, right?
vivekiny2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2009, 20:32   #3
Senior - BHPian
 
pranavt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,628
Thanked: 272 Times
Default

If VTEC is working, you will generally notice a change in sound at around 5.3k rpm. It's not noticeable on some VTECs, so YMMV. But I can notice an obvious change in the engine sound at 5.3k.

It might be useless, but the butt dyno might be able to detect a spurt of power at the same rpm, perhaps in first gear. So keep that in mind as well.

A final way is by taking an electrician with you and engaging VTEC manually by connecting the solenoid to the battery with a wire directly. If you notice the idling sound changing completely, then the engine and solenoid is fine. The rest of the problems will be electrical or sensor-related, like oil pressure, coolant temp, etc.

These are the 5 conditions that must be met for the ECU to engage VTEC mode:
Coolant Temperature: The engine must have reached normal operating temperature.
Throttle Position: The throttle must be open far enough.
Vehicle Speed: The car must be in motion.
RPM: Engine must spin to it's target value, 5.3k rpm.
Oil Pressure: The engine must be operating with normal and safe levels of oil pressure determined by the VTEC pressure switch.

The JDM engines don't have a VTEC pressure switch, so the JDM engines either skip that condition or accomplish it using some other method.

Last edited by pranavt : 28th September 2009 at 20:34.
pranavt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2009, 20:35   #4
Senior - BHPian
 
amit_mechengg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,411
Thanked: 1,540 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
VTEC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ask yourself first. what are you expecting to see with a vtec? you are a mech engr, right?
i know the technology very well. what i meant to ask is on a honda city Vtech at what RPM should i notice the VTECH kicking in.

on my test drive there were lot of parameters i was looking at and was too short a test drive in the city traffic to notice the VTECH.

if someone can tell me the exact behavior of the car that i should be looking for, to notice the vtech kicking in, it will be very helpful.
might be if the solenoid is damaged the vtech wont kick in etc etc.


Thanks a TON pranavt, you just posted as i was typing this post. you have given a very good pointer on the VTECH. no wonder i couldnt notice the VTECH. Might be i was not able to hit the 5300 mark.

it will be a bit difficult to check the solenoid by connecting it with the battery, the dealer/owner will offend a lot if i try to fiddle under bonnet. if you can tell me whether the solenoid is easily accessible and can i connect the battery to it quicky then i might go on a test drive and check quickly.

Last edited by amit_mechengg : 28th September 2009 at 20:41.
amit_mechengg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2009, 20:46   #5
Senior - BHPian
 
pranavt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,628
Thanked: 272 Times
Default

The solenoid is at the top-left corner of the engine, when you are standing in front of the open bonnet. So on the driver's side corner of the engine basically. It's a small cylinder.

http://www.jdmuniverse.com/forums/im...Pics/Pic14.JPG
pranavt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2009, 20:53   #6
Senior - BHPian
 
amit_mechengg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,411
Thanked: 1,540 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pranavt View Post
The solenoid is at the top-left corner of the engine, when you are standing in front of the open bonnet. So on the driver's side corner of the engine basically. It's a small cylinder.

http://www.jdmuniverse.com/forums/im...Pics/Pic14.JPG
got it, thanks. so i should remove the connector and connect it with the battery. do i have to carry out this activity with engine on? what RPM?
amit_mechengg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2009, 21:50   #7
Senior - BHPian
 
Shan2nu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hubli - Karnata
Posts: 5,525
Thanked: 87 Times
Default

Quote:
If VTEC is working, you will generally notice a change in sound at around 5.3k rpm. It's not noticeable on some VTECs, so YMMV. But I can notice an obvious change in the engine sound at 5.3k.
VTEC activates at 4200 in our engines, so whatever it is that you're hearing at 5300 is not VTEC (unless you've had the VTEC point changed to 5300).

Moreover, the torque maxes in at 4700rpm, so you can't possibly be achieving this with low profile lobes.

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 28th September 2009 at 21:53.
Shan2nu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2009, 22:42   #8
Team-BHP Support
 
manson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 3,547
Thanked: 2,035 Times
Default

Just incase you are only looking to verify if the motor is indeed a Vtec, its written right there on the block. Now where's that 'i'm stupid' smiley!

manson.
manson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2009, 10:30   #9
BHPian
 
ssjr0498's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Blr-Ccu
Posts: 642
Thanked: 118 Times
Default

Hi,

@pranavat: +1 to what shantanu has said , the VTEC activates at 4200 in our engines. So I am not sure what you are hearing at 5300. Do you have a standalone EMS? have you changed your vtec point? In addition to that, there are a lot of other factors that are taken into consideration by the ecu before the VTEC is activated. If you are sure that your vtec is kicking in at 5300 then number 1 check for your oil level and check the oil pressure. No 2: it is possible that due to some wiring flaw your tacho is over reading (personally experienced it).

In our Vtec engines (engine code: B15C2) the vtec activates at 4200 and the cut off is at 7100 rpm.


A couple of quick things that you can check to differentiate a vtec from a non vtec, starting from the outside to inside


1. The Vavle cover will read VT

Last edited by ssjr0498 : 29th September 2009 at 10:37.
ssjr0498 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2009, 10:40   #10
Senior - BHPian
 
beejay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: The Nilgiris
Posts: 1,916
Thanked: 109 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post

voila- alto worked like a charm. no rattles no squeaks,
Must have been a special car. My Sept 09 Alto has clocked 3000 kms and the music has started.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manson View Post
Just incase you are only looking to verify if the motor is indeed a Vtec, its written right there on the block. Now where's that 'i'm stupid' smiley!
manson.
As simple as apple pie.
beejay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2009, 10:57   #11
BHPian
 
ssjr0498's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Blr-Ccu
Posts: 642
Thanked: 118 Times
Default

THE LETTERS IN BOLD WAS ORIGINALLY A PART OF MY POST ON TOP, HAVE NO CLUE HOW THIS GOT DELETED/EDITED AUTOMATICALLY.. SO RETYPING IT..

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssjr0498 View Post
Hi,

@pranavat: +1 to what shantanu has said , the VTEC activates at 4200 in our engines. So I am not sure what you are hearing at 5300. Do you have a standalone EMS? have you changed your vtec point? In addition to that, there are a lot of other factors that are taken into consideration by the ecu before the VTEC is activated. If you are sure that your vtec is kicking in at 5300 then number 1 check for your oil level and check the oil pressure. No 2: it is possible that due to some wiring flaw your tacho is over reading (personally experienced it).

In our Vtec engines (engine code: B15C2) the vtec activates at 4200 and the cut off is at 7100 rpm.


A couple of quick things that you can check to differentiate a vtec from a non vtec, starting from the outside to inside


1. The Vavle cover will read VTEC whereas the NON VTEC will read HYPER 16
2. You should be able to locate the VTEC solenoid on the top left of the valve cover (when you are facing the car)
3. The engine code crimped on the bottom half should read B15C2 whereas the NON VTEC will read D15B or D13B2. Ideally you should tally this with the number on the identification Plate located on top of the show panel.
4. The moment you step inside the car, notice the TACHOMETER. The VTEC has a redline at 7100rpm whereas the NON VTEC will have it at 6800.

Hope this helps..
Cheers
Shrey
ssjr0498 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2009, 11:16   #12
Senior - BHPian
 
Shan2nu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hubli - Karnata
Posts: 5,525
Thanked: 87 Times
Default

If you really want to see the vtec kick in, have the car connected to a portable OBD system and take it for a drive.

Shan2nu
Shan2nu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2009, 11:46   #13
Senior - BHPian
 
amit_mechengg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,411
Thanked: 1,540 Times
Default

i think there is bit of confussion as the mods changed the thread title.

1. the point is, yes the engine is VTEC, but how to make out that the VTEC is in good health and working properly. i mean how to check whether the mechanism is working to its full potential and the oil path via the solenoid is working properly.

2. i want pointers i.e the guidelines to check the OHC before buying. i want a list of points to be noted and verified. may be i can have a checklist in my hand so that i can quicky note the points in the short test drive and based on that i can make the decision.

there are always some critical point in every car that one should look into before buying it.

for example: before buying a indica one should critically check the wheel bearings, the lower arms, ball joints. these are the main failure prone parts.

likewise what points for an OHC ?

secondly how much shall i pay at the max for the following
1. 2001 VTEC-61000kms- fair condition -quoted 250000
2. 2003 1.5 Exi- 46000- beige interiors - good condition -quoted 300000
amit_mechengg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2009, 12:09   #14
BHPian
 
ssjr0498's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Blr-Ccu
Posts: 642
Thanked: 118 Times
Default

IMO the following are the weak points..

1. Check the a/c compressor, it should not be making any unwanted noise. It is prone to fail after say 30-40k kms.

2. Check for any leak from the Steering Rack joint. To see this just open the hood and locate the Brake booster, which would be on the left side as you face the car, look below that, you will see the power steering rack and the driveshafts, take a look at the rack joint, there should be no leak.

3. Check the service history of the car, if not available, check for COMPRESSION. It should be upwards the 185psi mark on all cylinders, Ideally in Bangalore which is 3000m above sl, it should be around the 190psi mark.

4.Check for CEL (check engine light), make sure that the light does not come on.

5. Check for the O2 sensor, which is known to conk of on cars which have done upwards of 50k kms.The best way to check this is to let the car come up to the optimum drving temperature, which on the temp gauge is generally 2 notches below the half way mark. if the o2 is gone, the CEL will come on once the cat is heated up.

6. Likewise, make sure the the engine is not heating up, it should at any given point in time be below the half way mark, ideally 1 or 2 notches below the half way mark.


Apart from all this, there is nothing in particular for the OHC vtec. Just do a general check up like, turn the car lock to lock to see if there is any sound which is coming while turning or not (you should not hear any sound). Check for any leaks in the engine bay. Check the suspension. Look at the running board. Look for rust and stuff..

BTW, our cars are unlike the B16's (DOHC Vtec's). Hence the change in sound when the vtec kicks in is not very loud and the transition is not that violent. Ideally, the transition from the lower profile to the bigger profile should be smooth.

The prices that you have quoted sound too good to be true from Bangalore standards. But IMO pick up the Vtec. You won't regret having it.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Shrey


Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
i think there is bit of confussion as the mods changed the thread title.

1. the point is, yes the engine is VTEC, but how to make out that the VTEC is in good health and working properly. i mean how to check whether the mechanism is working to its full potential and the oil path via the solenoid is working properly.

2. i want pointers i.e the guidelines to check the OHC before buying. i want a list of points to be noted and verified. may be i can have a checklist in my hand so that i can quicky note the points in the short test drive and based on that i can make the decision.

there are always some critical point in every car that one should look into before buying it.

for example: before buying a indica one should critically check the wheel bearings, the lower arms, ball joints. these are the main failure prone parts.

likewise what points for an OHC ?

secondly how much shall i pay at the max for the following
1. 2001 VTEC-61000kms- fair condition -quoted 250000
2. 2003 1.5 Exi- 46000- beige interiors - good condition -quoted 300000

Last edited by ssjr0498 : 29th September 2009 at 12:11.
ssjr0498 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2009, 12:21   #15
Senior - BHPian
 
amit_mechengg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,411
Thanked: 1,540 Times
Default

thanks a lot shrey. immediately pressed the print page button. yes i have heard about the steering rack problem in OHCs, and it costs 40k odd if i am not wrong.
amit_mechengg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need to source an ECU for Chevy Captiva - Pointers needed Cesc Technical Stuff 1 19th September 2011 16:28
OHC VTEC Repainted, Before & After pics iraghava Modifications & Accessories 66 3rd November 2010 17:54
Help needed in attending the problems in my 2001 OHC vtec msk_kapoor Technical Stuff 7 8th December 2009 10:34
Pointers needed - Blore accident (minor) lazy Street Experiences 5 11th November 2008 10:40
help me to inspect a used car krishnanviyer Hatchbacks 1 25th November 2004 16:15


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 23:37.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks