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Old 26th October 2009, 18:09   #1
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Question OHC VTEC - Buying from Auto Terrace

The shift from Pune to Gurgaon was difficult in a lot of ways. However the most significant change was with regards to mobility. In Pune a two wheeler would suffice most of you requirements and for th rest you had you trusty three wheelers.

In Gurgaon, riding two wheelers was proving to be a hassle with the weather, the traffic, the distance and last but not the least, the restricted entry on the NH8. So a car was needed given the non existent public transport.

I needed a sedan since my parents would be visiting and would need the boot space and also since our family car was a Tata Indigo I wanted something that would be fun to drive. Talked to people researched on the net and came down to Maruti Baleno and OHC.

Looked up for some Private Party sellers and also some authorized dealers.:
Maruti True Value had some Balenos listed and I saw a couple of them and kept them in my list of "maybes".
OHC overall was a difficult car to lay my hands on. Some of the private party sellers from carwale had either sold of their cars or were expecting a very high price for their 1.5(2.4-2.8l). Also when I was in school our neighbor had a Black OHC VTEC with the gold lettering and it was absolutely stunning. I had dreams of owning one for quite a few years and now those were rekindled. Hence decided to try for a VTEC if I could get one within 2.6L.

So now called up Honda Auto Terrace of the individual dealers within NCR . They all said that they have a Honda Mella in Delhi over the weekend (24th-25th Oct) and also that they had some OHC VTEC with them. Checked out the place on 24th. Saw a 2002 VTEC (H.Mist) which had 62K on its odometer. Took a test drive of the car, and it was very very smooth. No jerks and very smooth acceleration. All the interior motors were working(window and mirror) and it still had its original seat fabrics. There were a few blemishes within the car but they could be ignored given that this is a 2002 model. The exteriors were flawless and when quizzed about this the Auto Terrace representative clearly said that they had touched up the car. I did other checks which were mentioned in the Second Hand Car segment and threads about OHC VTEC. It checked out fine though missed probably the most crucial check of them all(more on this later).

Now they quoted 2.95l which as per my research showed was a lot for a delhi car. Also they mentioned that they did not have the service record for this car but as per their 150 point check list they said all was fine. We gave them a quote of 2.7L from our side given that most of the touching up and part replacement was being done by them which otherwise we would have had to do. And then we waited for their call which alas never happened.

We come back the next day expecting the car to be sold but to SURPRISE!! , it was still there. Now we really did not care why no body else wanted the car cause we liked it and for my limited running it will serve me very well. We started the negotiation and we sealed the deal at 2.75L(it has insurance till March 2010) including transfer fees. We also asked them to fix a whole list of niggling issues like changing wiper blades and giving us boot mat and all. The tyres should last another 15-20k, hence not too concerned with that. Paid a token of 10k and they offered to have the car ready for delivery by Wednesday. It worked for us and we were on our way.

I had dreams of driving that car all night long and also was pretty ecstatic that the car was much better than the ones that I had test driven before. No rust, no rattles and most importantly awesome interiors and exterior.

Came to office today and have done nothing but ogle at VTECs online and decide on the budget for the ICE. In the middle decided to check out the Used car buying guide from Team-BHP.
Came up with the following points
1. Check with Authorized dealers about service history.
2. Even Authorized dealers can sometime play with the odo reading.
This got me thinking, we were not convinced whether a 7 year old car would have run only 62k but had no other way to prove it then. However I got on the phone and started calling up dealers in NCR. No luck for a lot of them and then I decided to call up the dealership from whose Auto Terrace I am getting the car.
Viola service record going back till Feb 2005. The odo was reading 50k back then. And according to them the last service was in Jan 2009. The odometer then was 88k. According to the Lady on the other line the car had not required any major work but it was also not serviced regularly(every 3 months according to her since the car did not cover 5000kms within that period) and had a break of a year in the middle between 2 services. This floored me. It meant that the Auto Terrace Manager had lied to us and was in the know how all along.

I was and am really upset. The token money is not much and I would not have any issue backing out now. However the issue is that I still found the car to be in very good condition and dont foresee any problems in near future. Also its nearer to the mileage I had expected for a 7 year old car. I still feel cheated but dont want to confront the Auto Terrace with this lest they not do all the work we had asked them to. As of now I dont have anything in written with regards to the service record and I doubt if they will give me any copy of the same. I am totally confused on what to do. I also checked with the insurance company and its been accident free for 2 years and a 20000Rs job done about three years back which is nothing major i suspect. This has just added to the confusion.

OT: I really would like to thank the users here who helped me out by making very comprehensive check lists, which I should have read better.
Attached Thumbnails
OHC VTEC - Buying from Auto Terrace-img_0489.jpg  


Last edited by hell_raiser : 26th October 2009 at 18:12.
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Old 26th October 2009, 19:40   #2
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Contratulations if you buy the car. Hondas can outlive most other cars provided you take moderate care of them. Do a compression check on the engine and if that is good, your engine is still fine. Just check the rest of the stuff (suspension, steering rack, brakes, VTEC) and if it's all good, congratulations on a good deal.

Drive her well and floor it once or twice everyday. Nothing beats redlining an OHC
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Old 26th October 2009, 22:31   #3
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Thanks Pranav. Thats one of the reasons to go for a Honda.

I know the car will last me long. Its more that the whole deal will leave a nagging doubt in my head. Its my first car purchase and I feel duped.
Also I really wanted to see if I can get in touch in Honda people directly with regards to this blatant lying and deceit.

I am currently between a rock and a hard place. Really confused cause I dont want to delay the delivery and also want to do something about getting lied to.

Mudit
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Old 27th October 2009, 09:00   #4
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Congrats on the buy.Its still a virgin with 62k odo.can run trouble free for twice the as much today. Ask them about the service history & see what they answer to it.
Are they providing any warranty? If not, ask them the same?
Happy motoring.
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Old 27th October 2009, 09:10   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramsagar View Post
Congrats on the buy.Its still a virgin with 62k odo.can run trouble free for twice the as much today. Ask them about the service history & see what they answer to it.
Are they providing any warranty? If not, ask them the same?
Happy motoring.
Hey Ram,

I think that you mis read. The problem is that I got the service history after paying the token. The Honda Auto Terrace claimed that they could not find history of the car with any of the dealers where as I got the history from their own service center. The last service was done in Jan 2009 and the odo read 88k then(it shows 62k now) Hence i am feeling duped and considering whether to forgo the token sum.

Mudit
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Old 27th October 2009, 10:23   #6
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What makes you think that you would not get your money back?? Does the advance recipt mention of a "no refund" clause? I think that it would be a good idea to go to them with a copy of the service record and confront them. If not anything, they might just give you more freebies to avoid an bad publicity from your end. Its worth a try, even if you don't intend to proceed with the purchase anymore.
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Old 27th October 2009, 10:39   #7
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At least some of your doubts can be answered about mileage and running:
1. 62K in 7 years: entirely possible. I have been running my Corolla at 8K per annum for the last 8 mths. My old Zen/Corsa ran at the same average of 8K for more than 6 years.
2. 50 to 62 part: my wife runs the Corsa and has done so since 2007, and in 30 mths, the odo has moved from 35.5K to 38.4K. Or 3K in 30 mths or 100 km/month.

So both things are possible, though pt 1 seems more reasonable.
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Old 27th October 2009, 11:54   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVD View Post
What makes you think that you would not get your money back?? Does the advance recipt mention of a "no refund" clause? I think that it would be a good idea to go to them with a copy of the service record and confront them. If not anything, they might just give you more freebies to avoid an bad publicity from your end. Its worth a try, even if you don't intend to proceed with the purchase anymore.
There is no "No Refund" clause in the token receipt. The token was only 10k and its not the concern. The concern I have is that I will be required to shell out decent amount of money in the next 20k Kms . This is what I learned from the OHC reviews I have read. Also I will be shelling out 20-25k more than the car might be worth which could be used to get the ICE and all.

About the service record, do dealerships actually hand out service records?

I also want to pursue the freebie route as this is one of the much better VTEC I have come across. I stupidly believed them when they said its run 62k but now since I know its more like 90k I will get a compression(~185 psi) test done before I pay the remaining money.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vasudeva View Post
At least some of your doubts can be answered about mileage and running:
1. 62K in 7 years: entirely possible. I have been running my Corolla at 8K per annum for the last 8 mths. My old Zen/Corsa ran at the same average of 8K for more than 6 years.
2. 50 to 62 part: my wife runs the Corsa and has done so since 2007, and in 30 mths, the odo has moved from 35.5K to 38.4K. Or 3K in 30 mths or 100 km/month.

So both things are possible, though pt 1 seems more reasonable.
Well now that I spoke to their own workshop which had service records of the car(till 2005) I trully believe that the car is 90k old atleast and not 62k. Even though I know the car is going to run well till 200k its still the feeling of being cheated by none other than Honda approved Authorized service center thats really turning the purchase sour. I just wish they were as reliable as their cars.

I didnt doubt their low running till I came across the service record.
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Old 27th October 2009, 12:14   #9
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Unfortunately the odo tampering is a rampant practice in the second hand market. Hellraiser, I would suggest the following:
Ask them to give in writing that the car has done genunine 62K.
Then confront them with the fact that the car has run atleast 90K as per their own service center records. This amounts to willful cheating/fraud on their part.
If you really like the car then ask them to further reduce the car price by 15-20K else ask them for the refund of your entire booking amount & restart your search for the car.
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Old 27th October 2009, 12:34   #10
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I have an OHC (non vtec), there are certain wear and tear parts like clutch, power steering rack which start giving way after 85k kms. I would suggest take the service history from Honda and check what all has been done so far. Incase you still like the car I suggest you take the service history and tell Honda that the price that you had agreed for was for a car which had done 63K and since this has done close to 90k they should reduce the price.
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Old 27th October 2009, 12:54   #11
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Hi,

if the compression of the car is fine and if the other stuff like, suspension, steering rack, tyres a/c compressor are fine! Then how does it matter whether its 90k or 62k (Please note that I am not vouching for what honda did, that in plain terms is cheating), now that you have the car, you rather enjoy it!!

Cheers
Shrey
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Old 27th October 2009, 12:57   #12
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I agree with malgudi , at least confront them with the fact that the car has run well beyond 62k odo , I am sure that you will get a price reduction.
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Old 27th October 2009, 14:22   #13
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do you have them claiming that the car has run 62k km in written??? then i think you should go pay them a visit with the service record and threaten them to take them to consumer court. that should help you in getting a sweeter deal on the car.
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Old 27th October 2009, 14:23   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malgudi View Post
Unfortunately the odo tampering is a rampant practice in the second hand market. Hellraiser, I would suggest the following:
Ask them to give in writing that the car has done genunine 62K.
Then confront them with the fact that the car has run atleast 90K as per their own service center records. This amounts to willful cheating/fraud on their part.
If you really like the car then ask them to further reduce the car price by 15-20K else ask them for the refund of your entire booking amount & restart your search for the car.
Even I am looking for reduction of price by 20k or accessories(basically the head unit and speakers) to cover that sum up. Also thanks for the idea for taking in written how much it has covered. I definitly plan to confront them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angad_kalra View Post
I have an OHC (non vtec), there are certain wear and tear parts like clutch, power steering rack which start giving way after 85k kms. I would suggest take the service history from Honda and check what all has been done so far. Incase you still like the car I suggest you take the service history and tell Honda that the price that you had agreed for was for a car which had done 63K and since this has done close to 90k they should reduce the price.
I agree with what you suggest. The sum was agreed to with the reasoning that it would not a lot of money in the near future and am definitly looking to getting it reduced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssjr0498 View Post
Hi,

if the compression of the car is fine and if the other stuff like, suspension, steering rack, tyres a/c compressor are fine! Then how does it matter whether its 90k or 62k (Please note that I am not vouching for what honda did, that in plain terms is cheating), now that you have the car, you rather enjoy it!!

Cheers
Shrey
The tyres are fine. The AC was chilling well and we have asked for the gas to be topped up. The suspension and steering had no noise and were precise. Though alignment and balancing was required, which we asked them to do.

I really want to enjoy the car and just hope everything works out. Also thanks for the list on another thread which helped me determine the final parameters which will help me decide on the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by singh.amrit View Post
I agree with malgudi , at least confront them with the fact that the car has run well beyond 62k odo , I am sure that you will get a price reduction.
Well either that or its a final call for me whether to go for the car. Really hope it does not come down to that.

I had a couple of questions.
1. Does a Authorized Service Center hand out service history records.
2. Do Service Centers have compression test equipment and how can we make sure that the result is genuine.

Thanks everyone for the advice.
Mudit
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Old 27th October 2009, 14:36   #15
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well hell_raiser, if you have any doubts, please stay away from the car. Do get fully (mentally) satisfied before buying.

I suggest you have a look at carwale(dot)com for used honda cars. I am sure you would find a better car.
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