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Old 10th November 2009, 21:58   #16
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Originally Posted by thorpe View Post
OMG! Civic has to be serviced every 5k kms!

My ikon gets serviced every 10k and prob'ly corolla 15k!
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Originally Posted by laluks View Post
800bucks every 5K km is good, considering the fact that your car gets washed and cleaned too at regular intervals

5K KM = approx 6 months of driving time (for 80-90% of the vehicles)

In a emerging automotive market like India, following things are facts

1. the road conditions are not very good and stable, hence it results is more wear and tear of parts in the vehicle

2. the drivers are not very mature and consistant. in Europe an below avg driver has driven > 200K KMs in his life time, where as in India most proficient drivers are in that range. more over driving/handling skills (or lack of it results in abuse of the vehicle) varry dramatically from a driver to another.

3. Average Vehicle Owners in India are also not very tech aware, hence may not be well informed about the consequences of certain wear/tear in a car and if not taken care by a professional might result in serious damages to the car and the people who would be travelling in such a car.

4. Actual fact is that the vehicles end up going to the service center any way in case of few of the brands/companies for fixing some or other niggles, accessories etc, it really does not matter taking it for a service once in 6 months.

5. last but noth the least, the veichles which have been inspected, maintained once in 6 months command better residual value (= resale value) than the vehicles which are maintained occationally (= once in a year or two).

when it comes to machines, vehicles or humans, PREVENTIVE maintenence is the cheapest compared to BREAKDOWN maintenence.

Hence service interval of 5K should not be a probelm for any owner.

Last edited by StarVegabond : 10th November 2009 at 22:08.
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Old 10th November 2009, 22:01   #17
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Originally Posted by thorpe View Post
guys, i want you all's advice as a general car enthusiast, not as honda & toyota fanboys!

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Originally Posted by EssYouWe View Post
Hehe! Decide what you want.

Its actually quite a simple decision and no one can really help you.

The features are... well not as important as the driving feedback. But thats my opinion.

Test Drive a bit more... Confuse yourself a bit more and one day you'll get so pissed off with yourself that you'll go and buy one.

I guess then this is the way to go


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.....
Hence service interval of 5K should not be a probelm for any owner.
Star, completely agree.

Last edited by laluks : 10th November 2009 at 22:06.
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Old 10th November 2009, 23:07   #18
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Haven TDed both Altis and Civic extensively, my take (totally my personal views):

1) Altis - Looks and Design - very weak point of altis is the interior design and plastic quality.. just don't match up to Civic's dash and plastic quality.. the fake wood totally kills the excitment.. Drive - the deal breaker for me was the EPS.. though it is a boon in bumper to bumper traffic, it gives NO feedback at all in higher speed.. and does not instill confidence in connering and higher speed..NVH is not too great compare to a Civic.. Good thing is, I had own a SX4 before and Altis was no surprise when it comes to the seating position.. both offer very good visibility..

2) Honda Civic - Looks and design - still got the looks and the heart still beats..funny thing is that Altis (old wine in new bottle) which was launched after the 8th gen Civic, looks very dated, whereas, Civic still manage to defy time in terms of design and ergonomics.. more so, it would be interesting to see the next iteration of Civic (9th generation).. plastics quality is top notch, and the touch and feel of the door plastics are simply great.. Drive - the HPS setup is what the car deserves and this is one of the reason why it is such a great handler... the feedback is amazing and one always get connected to the car

Both cars are excellent in their own terms, and the Altis appealed most to my head, but the heart just carved for Civic... indeed a very tough choice...
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Old 10th November 2009, 23:16   #19
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also, can somebody enlighten me about the tyre changing thing in civic, the good year michelin thing. I also read in TEAM BHP TEST DRIVES that civic tyres wear out very fast and uneven tyre wear is also there. has any civic owner faced this problem.
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Old 11th November 2009, 09:39   #20
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Seems like you are inclined more towards...

37K done. No tyre change. no uneven wear. Mine is on stock Goodyears.
Wearing out of Michelins at 25K was reported one off incident as far as I know.

As far as my contacts goes, our civics are very decent on the tyres, and going strong over 30+K Kms.

But then at the current price to own a civic, these 25K expense (if at all it occurs - but perception is already built like GC) every 30K km is should not be an issue to the buyer!!

Last edited by laluks : 11th November 2009 at 09:43.
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Old 11th November 2009, 12:15   #21
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Civic is a very good car - but Honda in India is definitely not a VFM proposition, it would have been the best choice if priced between 10 - 12, but clearly they dont care what i think Honda already sells well, so, their attitude could be an irritant too (from my personal experience). If you are ok with these concerns, then you shouldnt think twice...

Altis IMO looks much better than the Civic - honestly i used to love the Civic - but got bored after seeing so many civics wherever i go - nothing special about it anymore. Altis throws a lot of features and stylish lamps, but its nothing but old wine in a new bottle... you can argue good/bad from either sides, but i personally will consider something more peppy with more character rather than a win-win car... especially if you have the youth in you still

Have you considered the Cruze and the Cedia as well ? I booked a Cedia recently inspite of all the questions raised, clearly because it stands out in driving pleasure - thats what i want in my car firstly, everything comes next... the GC, brakes & suspension are a treat to take on Indian roads... its a 2.0 litre engine so never falls out of breath and the MOMO steering wheel could give you the sporty feel you always wanted... over all the car is a decent package for the cost, so you can use the savings on mods... somebody in this forum mentioned that the cedia can be tuned to deliver upto 300bhp if you want the kicks !!

Good luck
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Old 11th November 2009, 12:30   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonymousCoward View Post
@aaggoswami, GTO confirmed that the GC issue has now gone away after the latest update. Pls. check that thread. Please don't take offence, but we should keep ourselves updated.

Personally, if I were paying up close to 15lacs, I would want the best of the technology (engine) and features. While Altis sports retuned but old engine (Why is Toyota so conservative in India?), Civic sports the latest and arguably the greatest.
Correct me if I am wrong in my post:


1) The body whether mounted high or low makes the difference. Civic wheelbase is 2700mm and for that wheelbase the body is quite low which will take hit once the car is loaded.

Have a look at this : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...-measured.html (Optimum ground clearance of a Car? & how it is measured...)

Although the general term is GC, I have found out that the body, in general, makes difference. Baleno has 170mm GC with 2480m wheelbase, but with load, we still manage to scrap the car. When two people, it does not scrap.

Here Civic is without doubt mounted closer to ground. And with load, it goes further down, and does scarp the road. Its not only on speed breakers. In my area ( near Gotri, Saurabh Park, Vadodara ), I have seen Civic with load scrap the underbody even when one wheel is goes down in pothole. The roads are really bad here, but we have never scrapped the car on these roads.

Theoritically, GC figures are good, but practically, the body height makes difference.
When Civic and Corolla Altis are brought into picture, Altis is obviously higher than Civic and faces less issue of body scrapping than Civic.

At the end of the day, I will not believe that Civic body scrapping problem is gone. On most of the Indian roads this problem is going to remain.

2) VVT-i is not far behind i-VTEC.
If I understand correctly, its Honda's advanced VTEC called AVTEC that offers both variable phase + varibale lift and timing. Toyota's Valvematic offers similar control. The Civic's engine does not have AVTEC. And Altis's motor does not have valvematic.

FYI, 2ZR-FAE comes with Valvematic + Dual VVTi, where as what we are getting is 2ZR-FE that comes with only Dual VVTi. 2ZR-FAE has 145 or 146 bhp output where as 2ZR-FE has 132 bhp.
The Civic's motor has i-VTEC, which switches between cams.

So its not much different and its not a very big advantage that Honda can command a premium. VVTi is also quite proven and practically its not behind VTEC.

We just cant call VTEC as best technology. For practical purpose, Altis's motor offers much better bottom end, good midrange and good top end also. Toyota's engines are the one that are known to go on and on and on.

Add to that the fact about ENCAP scores. Civic has 4/5 rating and Altis has 5/5 rating.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 11th November 2009 at 12:37.
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Old 11th November 2009, 12:56   #23
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
We just cant call VTEC as best technology. For practical purpose, Altis's motor offers much better bottom end, good midrange and good top end also. Toyota's engines are the one that are known to go on and on and on.

Add to that the fact about ENCAP scores. Civic has 4/5 rating and Altis has 5/5 rating.
Have to agree here, Honda has awesome Vtec engines. That doesnt mean the others are that bad. I had a very brief stint in Vidyut's Altis and i can confirm that you will not ever regret buying that engine. Its superb i would say!

Both are accomplished machines, its just matter of personal choice and how you set the car up, in Altis i would definitely recommend a minor tweak with tires to get into a driver's car mode.

Am quite sure this works wonders, i have sat in fully blown previous gen Corolla with nice set of tires (suspension not touched) in Bangkok sometime back, and the way the driver was taking those narrow 2 lane galli's and at those speeds, i was really
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Old 11th November 2009, 13:05   #24
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Quote:
2) VVT-i is not far behind i-VTEC.
The only diff between the 2 is that i-VTEC varies the lift, duration and timing of the valves while the VVT-i only varies the timing.

The VVTL-i sold in other countries is similar to i-VTEC.

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Old 11th November 2009, 14:19   #25
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Most of the posts here are accurate and the relative pros and cons of each car is for the most part non - controversial. There's also no right / wrong answer. Its really what works for you individually.

Here's what I believe you should do.

List down your top priorities in what you're looking from your ride on a piece of paper. Drive both cars back to back and decide which one meets these priorities best. The decision is yours and yours alone. If there's a specific aspect you are considering in the car where you want member/ owner feedback, you could pose further specific queries to help you make the decision armed with the right facts.

All the best.
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Old 12th November 2009, 08:55   #26
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Seems like you are inclined more towards...

37K done. No tyre change. no uneven wear. Mine is on stock Goodyears.
Wearing out of Michelins at 25K was reported one off incident as far as I know.

As far as my contacts goes, our civics are very decent on the tyres, and going strong over 30+K Kms.

But then at the current price to own a civic, these 25K expense (if at all it occurs - but perception is already built like GC) every 30K km is should not be an issue to the buyer!!
Hey, can you tell me more about the tyre change to reduce cabin noise...
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Old 23rd November 2009, 15:47   #27
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Hi man...a few months fomr now i too was in the same state of mind as you are in right now....I am a proud owner of the Altis 1.8 V (automatic) and i guess u must test drive the same. You may be reading a lot of reviews about both these cars (like i did) but then i strongly recommend driving them first. The altis automatic is superb and the 1.8 l VVTi engine is quite peppy.....i am sure that the 5 speed auto box of the civic is sportier but man the altis is a great car to be in. The electronic power steering is a blessing in a city with dense traffic as Mumbai....U turns are a total breeze and the car feels really well planted. Cruse control is alsoa feature in both the cars but you can use the same only ont he expressway.
The corolla altis gives me 9.6 km to a liter in city traffiic....and about 14-16 on clear highways which is quite amazing for a 1.8lt automatic right.. in dense traffic the auto is so much more easier to drive on. Power lumbar support and the 8 way driver seat adjustment is also cool and u dnt get exhaused after driving for miles. Some one shared service cpost of civic in this thread ill post the service schedule of altis for you guys as well:
1000km - general inspection and cleaning - cost Rs 0
10000Km- oil, oil filter change and windscreen cleaning fluid(28rs only unlike 200 for civic) total cost 1291Rs and o rs labour charges
20000km- again all the above and cost is same 1291 rs
30000km- all the above + a/c filter change - cost rs 3904 ( this includes 1300 rs as service charges)
40000km- all same as of 10k km and change of spark plugs and brake fluid and air cleaner fluid for 4320 rs including 1679 as service charges
50000km- same as 10000km and charges here are 2642Rs (including service charges)
so in all it is easier on pocket, longer service intervals and better fuel efficency. get ur car insured form bajaj allianz and ull get good discounts ( i wasent tht lucky and bought the insurance fomr the dealer).
Have finished with my 1st service and am really satisfied with the customer service. Buying a car form toyota was a pleasant experience for me and i strongly recommend the automatic to all to drive peacefully in this ever growing traffic.
regards
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Old 14th December 2009, 18:26   #28
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Thorpe, you like Civic, its performance, looks and everything you got bowled by it.
No worries about the tyre. Michelin is one of the best available and as long as you rotate the tires and check the alignment and wheel balancing every 5k, it will go on for atleast 40k if not more.

If GC is not an issue and if you can afford, then what your heart asks for (civic) is not a bad car.

Corolla is very understated compared to Civic. It does not flash, but it does its job. Its got a very good low end torque, but the top end may not be as sweet as Civic. If you drive lots of highway and less city, then Civic would fit the bill. Corolla gives you a big hand in the city with its low end torque and its pretty drivable in the city.

No wonder your dad likes Corolla, because of the ingress and egress ease. He is also probably bowled by the simple and functional aspects of the Corolla cabin.

If the car is purely for you and rarely your father is going to use then jump into Civic. If the car is going to be used equally by you and your dad, then give way to corolla and you still can get the best out of it.
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Old 15th December 2009, 09:22   #29
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@aago : That must've been a hell of a pothole!

Anyway, I've scraped the underbody of my Civic a few times, had suspension hits - when six people (!) and their luggage were in the car. Even when the roads of Kerala are now comparable to rally stages, I do not regret buying the car. Not even a single iota of regret.

Take that how you will.
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Old 15th December 2009, 10:18   #30
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Check these figures for the Civic.



Don't know about Altis figures - can some one share??
Altis I do not know, but Altis like Corolla has to be serviced every 10K. My costs were 2,200 for first 3 services at 20K (1K, 10K, 19K), around 3000 at 30K service, and approx the same amount of 3,000 at 40K service (got it done earlier at around 38.5K).
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