Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > What Car? > Sedans


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 16th November 2009, 15:48   #1
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 605
Thanked: 187 Times
Default Tata Manza - Petrol or Diesel?

Pardon this, but iam a complete newbie to both tbhp and world of 4-wheelers.
Iam considering the TATA Manza Saffire version. But I have heard MJD will be a better ride; and i don't mind spending the extra lakh to own an MJD vehicle. Is Manza diesel a good option purely for engine excellence even if the monthly running does not warrant a diesel car?

Manza Petrol is most sensible for me since the likely running will be max 800 to 900 km/month. Is it worth switching over to Manza Diesel? I know my running is low; also, I have the following concerns regarding the QJD engine.:
1. Diesel maintenance - I have tried searching this forum for various threads on this topic. Most of them seem out-dated (no QJD-specific threads). I know maintaining older diesel engines were a painful affair. Will QJD be any better. I realise QJD is a more modern engine. Seniors/experts, pls clarify with personal experiences, if any.
2. NVH levels - Deal breaker for me :( I have read thru various reviews that NVH on QJD Vista and Manza are top class with the occupants not realising its a diesel under the bonnet. But what about the exterior noise? I don't want to wake up my neighbours everytime i start the car!! I say this due to a recent experience. A Hyundai i20 CRDI cab (yes, i20 cab! - i pinched myself and reconfirmed) recently came to my office complex and i was shocked by the amount of noise the car was making at idle. It was super new and what ugly kat-kat! It was no different from a much-abused Indica. And i20 is supposed to be a "modern" car! I just don't want to drive in to a relatives house and they mistaking a truck has come instead.
3. Resale to private owners - astonishingly, most of my colleagues feel a diesel TATA will have a high resale only if the buyer is a fleet operator. A private owner may not prefer a 5-year old diesel TATA car. Is this true? Vista is too new in market, so do we have any hard facts to say otherwise?

Experts & Seniors - Please clarify on the above points and help me come to a good decision.
WindRide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2009, 17:31   #2
BHPian
 
gomzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 783
Thanked: 125 Times
Default

I do not have any experience of owning any Multijet/DDiS/QJD vehicle, so cannot give first hand experience.

But IMHO, one thing that will affect your decison between petrol/diesel is the time frame that you intend to keep the car. If it's going to be just 3-4 years then with your daily mileage, petrol might make more sense in terms of cost saving vis-a-vis upfront additonal cost of diesel.

If you intend to keep the car for longer than 5 years, then the saving in daily diesel refuelling will make up for the additional cost. There's a good thread already on this topic.

My 0.2$'s. I'll leave the your other queries for people with more experience on this engine.
gomzi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2009, 18:11   #3
Senior - BHPian
 
mithun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Cochin
Posts: 1,950
Thanked: 49 Times
Default

Quote:
Manza Petrol is most sensible for me since the likely running will be max 800 to 900 km/month. Is it worth switching over to Manza Diesel?
Based on your running Petrol is recommended but since it's a TATA vehicle, I would recommend you to buy a Diesel because of spare parts availability & resale.

And, also since you can afford one why not a MJD ?
mithun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2009, 18:21   #4
Senior - BHPian
 
sdp1975's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,592
Thanked: 920 Times
Default

The maintenance of QJD will be slightly higher than petrol engines by a few hundreds - not several thousands. This should not be a matter of concern.

I don't think the i20 is a noisy engine - maybe the cab was not well maintained. TD both the diesel and the petrol manza and take the call. It's difficult to judge the resale since Manza has just arrived in the market - but it is a family sedan, and so private buyers should also look forward to buying it and not just fleet operators.

Last edited by sdp1975 : 16th November 2009 at 18:28.
sdp1975 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2009, 18:24   #5
Team-BHP Support
 
.anshuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Good-Gaon
Posts: 7,714
Thanked: 9,021 Times
Default

Ive owned 2 cars with the Multijet engine, Multijet offers decent performance with amazing fuel economy. The engine is surely amongst the best diesel engines sold in the segment(best one is i20 Diesel). The VGT version used in Linea and Manza has a bit more of lag but performance is very good compared to the petrol variants.

I would suggest you to drive both petrol and diesel variants of the car(ask the salesman to keep quiet). Observe the engine characteristics of both the variants. Go home and do the calculations. I would always suggest a diesel as the high initial invest will be paid back when sell your car and Low running costs will be a bonus. Diesels are no more a pain to maintain.

However if you like smoother engine which rev to mad speeds petrol is the one to go for. But the Safire petrol engines have nothing so special about them, most japanenese and Korean cars have petrol better engines.

Last edited by .anshuman : 16th November 2009 at 18:27. Reason: spell
.anshuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2009, 18:34   #6
BHPian
 
hiren959's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ahmedabad
Posts: 339
Thanked: 50 Times
Default

IMO there is no need to spend 1lac for the sake of just engine, your monthly run gives strong indications for the petrol engine only.

now check out some petrol motor options besides Manza and decide one of them.
hiren959 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2009, 18:54   #7
Senior - BHPian
 
extreme_torque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,546
Thanked: 1,318 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
However if you like smoother engine which rev to mad speeds petrol is the one to go for. But the Safire petrol engines have nothing so special about them, most japanenese and Korean cars have petrol better engines.
Thats quite a generalization which I would sort of agree but with japanese engines not Korean (Hyundai). Hyundai petrol engines are neither here nor there and are mostly lacklusture at best.
extreme_torque is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2009, 19:14   #8
Team-BHP Support
 
.anshuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Good-Gaon
Posts: 7,714
Thanked: 9,021 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Thats quite a generalization which I would sort of agree but with japanese engines not Korean (Hyundai). Hyundai petrol engines are neither here nor there and are mostly lacklusture at best.
So is the Safire petrol engine.
.anshuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2009, 19:31   #9
Senior - BHPian
 
Gilead's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,140
Thanked: 20 Times
Default

Wind, have you already decided that only the Manza (either petrol or diesel) would do for you? If you have not, and you are looking at other options for a fun to drive petrol, try TD-ing an AHNC or a Fiesta. Both will knock your socks off.
Gilead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2009, 20:09   #10
Team-BHP Support
 
Zappo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 5,653
Thanked: 2,013 Times
Default

WindRide, let me do some calculations just for you. Your case is that you hardly drive 900 kms a month and hence the diesel may not be the right car for you.

Let us see. I did some quick back of the envelope calculations for you. We still do not have the actual city consumption stat either for the Manza petrol or diesel engines. But let us say that the Petrol returns a healthy 12 kmpl. This is pretty optimistic for such a big car but let it ride for now. For travelling 900 kms your car will then need 75 ltrs of petrol every month. Similarly, let us say that the Manza diesel returns a steady 15 kmpl (ARAI certified it for well above 21 kmpl!). A diesel Manza will need 60 ltrs of diesel for travelling the 900 kms.

Now the calculations part that matters to you. The petrol at Hydbd is Rs.50 a ltr and diesel is Rs.36 a ltr. If you calculate for Petrol your monthly running expense comes to Rs.3750 whereas for the diesel car this expense is Rs.2160. The difference in just the fuel cost is a healthy Rs.1590 per month. In a year you save Rs.19080 on the fuel bill. In 4 years you would have saved Rs.76320 on the fuel bill.

Now consider this. The difference in the cost of the comparable models of the Manza in the diesel and the petrol avatars is around 80k or less. So essentially speaking even with your low 900 kms of running your car will start returning you back after 4 years. Here I have assumed that the other maintenance costs for the petrol and diesel variants won't be very different. This I am saying from my long association with diesels and knowing the kind of expenses I incur.

Modern diesels do not gulp oil or need costly spares every second day as many misinformed people seem to believe. They just need their regular service at the fixed intervals which in themselves are pretty long nowadays. Also, all that argument about how diesel cars seem to chew up tyres because of heavier front etc. are very vacuous in nature. It actually never happens and is in any case not very different from the petrol cars provided the car tyres are periodically balanced and wheels aligned along with the mandatory rotation.

So now you go and figure out how it all looks to you. And one last thing, if your running goes up in future (which it will in any case, and you can hold me to it) your diesel car will take much less than the 4 years to return back the extra 80k that you would have invested on her. Also remember that there is a quotient called peace of mind that you experience everytime you go to a pump and ask her to be filled up and know that you are paying soooooo much less than the guy at the next petrol dispensing unit.

P.S.: I have left the diesel clatter part out here as many have already started addressing it. Just suffice it to say that unless you are in a closed space (like underground parking) or early mornings when the engine is still dead cold you do not hear much of a clatter in the well maintained modern diesels, inside or outside. Take my word for it.

P.S. 2: Caveat Emptor. Consider all the points above as well as anything and everything else that others have to say. But take your own, well informed decision only when you are convinced of something. Remember, one persons Nectar can very well be the Poison for the other.
Zappo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2009, 23:23   #11
Distinguished - BHPian
 
phamilyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 5,601
Thanked: 3,452 Times
Default

-1

Add in the EMI cost of the extra one lakh and the diesel advantage is zero.

TD a petrol car, rev it to 4k and you'll not bother with most diesels!!

You DONT need a diesel.

and sorry ... but engineering excellence ... Toyota anyday. Definitely not Tata, for chrissakes!
phamilyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2009, 23:58   #12
BHPian
 
maglev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 785
Thanked: 88 Times
Default

Looking at the current state of inflation in our economy.

It may take much longer for the diesel advantage to step in.

Also with the introduction of ULSD: Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel the low cost advantage of diesel may vanish,
ULSD is most probably coming to New Delhi in April 2010, I presume that other metro's would soon follow.

And please don't forget the Opportunity Cost of that precious Rs 80k, think about ICE, alloys, A gift for your wife.
maglev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th November 2009, 14:50   #13
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 605
Thanked: 187 Times
Default

Thank you all for the detailed suggestions and advice. Helped me get a better perspective of the dilemma i'am facing.

@gomzi - "the time frame that you intend to keep the car"
Intend to run the car to the ground. Iam the practical sort and don't see value in changing cars frequently.

@mithun - "since you can afford one why not a MJD ?"
I can, but the concerns i have regarding diesel vehicles stops me from doing so.

@sdp1975 - "The maintenance of QJD will be slightly higher than petrol engines by a few hundreds"
Thanks for the candid observation. This is what i wanted to know.

@.anshuman - "I would always suggest a diesel as the high initial invest will be paid back when sell your car"
Is this true if re-sale is happening to a private party or only to a cab-wallah? (I had asked this in my initial post, point 3)

@Gilead - "try TD-ing an AHNC or a Fiesta"
Sorry sir, vitamin-M does not allow such luxury :(
I was looking for a hatch, had almost decided on Vista; then manza came along and put the best laid plans to rest. Can't look at cars beyond Manza.

@Zappo - Thank you sir for doing the math for me and the detailed advice you have provided. Your illustration helped put things in perspective.

"I have assumed that the other maintenance costs for the petrol and diesel variants won't be very different"

As per my colleagues, diesel engines are mechanically more complex than their petrol counterparts, meaning more moving parts, meaning more wear and tear, meaning more frequent visits to service folks, meaning - despite spares being cheap, the overall cost of ownership may be on the higher side when compared to petrol unit. True?
Also sdp1975's comment above.

"your car will start returning you back after 4 years"
phamilyman's observation "Add in the EMI cost of the extra one lakh and the diesel advantage is zero" sounds logical and i agree with that. I need to go knocking some bank's door.

The only reasons Iam looking at Manza QJD are:
1. As Zappo observed, my monthly running will increase on an average in the future and i don't want tremble every time i head for a re-fuel.
2. MJD is supposed to give great drivability at low speeds in city traffic, something i would love to have. Tbhpian "Ctrl-Alt-Del", in his long term review of Vista MJD says his car feels like an automatic in peak hour traffic due to his inactive left leg!
WindRide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th November 2009, 15:06   #14
Team-BHP Support
 
.anshuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Good-Gaon
Posts: 7,714
Thanked: 9,021 Times
Default

But did anyone consider a Tata Petrol car's resale value. It have have an engine from Fiat but its the public perception that defines resale value.
.anshuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th November 2009, 15:18   #15
Distinguished - BHPian
 
phamilyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 5,601
Thanked: 3,452 Times
Default

which is why - a petrol must be a maruti or a hyundai or max a chevy.

a diesel must be a multijet
phamilyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A story of 3 workhorses: 2 Santro's and a Manza, Edit: Santro sold, Manza at 100k+ amit1234singla Long-Term Ownership Reviews 115 10th August 2014 21:53
Tata Manza Recall : Tata to replace anti-roll bar bush Turbo_Charger Technical Stuff 6 5th April 2012 11:21
Manza BS petrol - gear box break down? vjoy3 Technical Stuff 4 4th April 2011 21:43
TATA Manza Petrol ABS and accessories initial review boomboom Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 12 14th April 2010 10:51
Tata Manza 1.3 diesel - First Drive Report. Edit: Pictures added on Page 4. GTO Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 430 29th October 2009 16:22


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 12:20.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks