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Old 10th December 2009, 13:26   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car&me View Post
Though its your view, I fail to understand the thinking behind these words. Whats wrong with Maruti that they cannot have a 8+ lakh worth of product?
They have revolutionised Indian auto industry with cars which brought most middle class to think about owning 4 wheeler.
Their products are VFM, next only to TATA vehicles (again an Indian product)
They rank the best in best Customer Satisfaction in India for 9 or 10 years in a row. (Honda has never been even once in the last 10 yrs or their time in India)
The top end of Jazz costs us 6.8 lakhs ex-showroom (correct me if I am wrong). There are several threads going on about ANHC being overpriced and Honda owners accept it as well.
Anyday I would blindly believe in Maruti pricing because I know that I will get the value worth I am paying. Same way it will be very difficult for me to believe Honda even if the launch a right priced product (forget VFM).

For me the product and a** comes first when I buy and the Brand comes next or low in priority.

Folks, I am probably ignorant of the facts that connects to a Maruti product not worth 8+, if thats the case please help me understand
well, I respect what you had mentioned, but that's your view... You and I know, Maruti venture into premium C+ and D segments will always have an image problem.. not sure about you, but I had owned a SX4 zxi for 2.5 years and on paper, the car is great, features pack and have the absolute peace of mind... BUT in the premium segments (8+ lacs), there is lot to be desired on the NVH, build, plastics, usability etc...fine the bells and whistles are there and its VFM, but in this segment, boss, VFM is not an important aspect in one's decision..at least not me..you can't compromise on the interiors, build and refinement... and that's why I sold my SX4 within 2.5 years and upgraded to Civic.. because I spent most of time driving, and engine noise annoyed me to a great extent.. instead of the ACC, I would prefer better plastic qualities and NVH, instead of rattling noise (sometimes), I would prefer the sweet node of a VTEC etc etc.. well, I am not saying SX4 is bad.. it was a very good buy 2-3 years back.. now the fact is the competitions (Linea, ANHC) have up the bar matching/surpassing the bells and whistles that once SX4 enjoyed..

and of course, you and others (who don't own a ANHC) would say its overpriced.. but for me (and other 50,000 people over a year), its a total value proposition, because my requirements align with the specs of ANHC (though it is a different thing that I went in for a Civic).. be it the reliability, FE, build, refinement, driveability, brand, resale etc... and that premium that I would pay (say 1.5 lacs) is something that I would get it back under the ownership..

NO..I am not trying to be a Honda fanboy... I love the JAZZ, but their price is absolute non-sense... but I would not shy away from recommending a good, valued product.. and ANHC is one...

Last edited by iTNerd : 10th December 2009 at 13:28.
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Old 10th December 2009, 13:58   #17
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One point to note is that in Pune Deccan Honda has a bad rep as far as Sales and Service is concerned... Have a look at the threads.

A new one Crystal Honda has opened up on the highway BUT there was an older one (Grand Honda) in the same area which was shut down and folks who bought from them were back to relying on Deccan Honda.

To simplify your decision:
If (GC is important) and (Budget is limited)
Buy SX4
Else
Buy ANHC
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Old 10th December 2009, 14:01   #18
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@iTNerd, I remember that one of the sore points of the SX4 that you had mentioned of was the lack of low-end torque, especially in bumper-to-bumper traffic.

I hope the new version of the SX4 has addressed that concern. However, I've read posts on this forum that even the ANHC has such a lack of 'pull' at low RPMs.
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Old 10th December 2009, 14:15   #19
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Originally Posted by vnabhi View Post
@iTNerd, I remember that one of the sore points of the SX4 that you had mentioned of was the lack of low-end torque, especially in bumper-to-bumper traffic.

I hope the new version of the SX4 has addressed that concern. However, I've read posts on this forum that even the ANHC has such a lack of 'pull' at low RPMs.
yes vnabhi, infact I highlighted that issue in many threads! but from the reviews I have read, the new VVTi engine is torquer and refined in low gears.. so, I guess, that should not be an issue with the new SX4..

regarding the lack of pull on the ANHC, it might be the iVTEC in action.. the 8 additional valves opens up in higher RPM..it is the same with Civic too.. but it is not as bad.. as much as you rev it, there is always the instant forward propulsion, unlike in SX4 which is too lazzy (linear delivery) to deliver adequate power when revved..so overtaking is a bliss with the iVTEC!

Last edited by iTNerd : 10th December 2009 at 14:18.
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Old 10th December 2009, 14:21   #20
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This thread may help:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ink-so-22.html
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Old 10th December 2009, 14:25   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vnabhi View Post
However, I've read posts on this forum that even the ANHC has such a lack of 'pull' at low RPMs.
I drive ANHC AT and it feels very lively right from 1000 rpm. It feels torquey enough at low revs but yes the acceleration itself is slow to begin with.

Last edited by Guna : 10th December 2009 at 14:28.
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Old 10th December 2009, 14:31   #22
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I dont really understand why such a big fuss about the GC, i would like to again say that we or rather i dont have any problem driving ANHC in the hump's city at all.

Why the rattle of SX4 not being compared to the rattle in an ANHC(if any) ? the A**, well i dont have a problem with them.

Fact is, cars cannot be whatsoever designed keeping the humps & definitely not Bangalore humps in mind !!!

and Abhi , please use you head rather than the heart when you are taking decisions which you will not repent later in life. In my opinion, decisions taken by the heart is wrong, most of the time . You dont buy cars every fortnight !

so take care and decide by your head, i mean the brain, i mean your intelligence, i mean by the citizen poll .

give us the good news !

Last edited by nandans2005 : 10th December 2009 at 14:32.
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Old 10th December 2009, 14:32   #23
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Originally Posted by hrmanju1 View Post
Go for ANHC. End of my suggestion. Do let us know what your decision is.

Saw some AD in BLR paper today on ANHC having discounts. So hurry!
Checked with the dealer
No discounts as such, but there is another friend who is plng to buy one, and if we buy 2, he is willing to offer 15K X2

Quote:
Originally Posted by esteem_lover View Post
ANHC by a long country mile. Knowing that you would want to build a carputer in it sometime, this is the car to have.
Hahahaha, Good one there saar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Car&me View Post
abhi182, you described the car characteristics. It would be nice to get to know a bit more on the your requirements, like your driving habits, elderly usage etc.

To me,
1. SX4 is rightly priced whereas ANHC is not.
2. Since you would hate to cautiously negotiate trivial bumps and potholes, ANHC may not handle it, SX4 will do it.
3. With Sx4 you get a better A** and customer friendly Services
4. SX4 will not match ANHC's mileage (I dont know about the new SX4's VVT mileage)
5. Rattling issues is the only concern for you in SX4, which can be taken care by some good damping and early attendance to rattling noises. I am not saying this will prevent it, but will be under control.
6. SX4 will take you to those vacations that you are talking about, where probably you dont have a city like or there is no NH.

Based on your post, I see that you are on the wall but looking more at SX4 side than the ANHC . All I am saying is your heart's selection is not a bad car. You choose what your heart says and you still will be happy irrespective of what others say. (including me)
Love the last line... My usage is predominantly city/highway (70:30) but having said that, I do go for 1-2 long driving vacations in a year which takes me to the beaten trails


Anyway, I'll take a back to back test drive inside the city this time in bumper to bumper traffic
The last TD on both the cars was on the city outskirts... bumpy roads but minimal traffic
Hope to freeze the decision by the end of this week
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Old 10th December 2009, 14:51   #24
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On what basis we conclude the quality of the plastics? What are the yard sticks? I am confused and canít tell whether the plastics in my car (which is in its 3rd year) is good or bad. Or whether it is better, worse or equal to the quality of plastics in another car. Even after 2.5 years, the plastics in my car has not lost its characteristics. It did not bend, brake or become dirty. If cleans properly, it still shines as in a new car. The design of the dash etc are debatable, but the quality of the raw material (plastic) seems to be fine. Or am I missing any thing?
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Old 10th December 2009, 15:01   #25
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iTnerd, my brother owns a Honda city (2006) and I have extensive experience with the city and Honda. The car is a great car, but the premium he paid is not worth it (for us) by the attitude of Honda folks. He is looking at changing his car and he is avoiding ANHC, inspite of liking its looks, for the primary reason that its a Honda. As you cleary pointed out, there are probably not many like us, but for that few of us who are value conscious of what we buy there are products like cedia or Magnum or Sx4.

GC not only helps to negotiate the speed breakers in the city but also roads that are not properly laid or maintained. There are lot of such roads which for majority of people are dont drive day in day out. But there are few set of people like me, who go through single lane roads, navigate through half road and half gravel to reach our farms, drive through village roads to reach certain business interests. We dont want a SUV for this, but a car like ANHC or Civic cannot fit the bill there. We need cars like SX4, fusion, innova to do that job. So it depends on what your driving path is on a daily basis. There are lot of such roads and lot of such people. NH and butter smooth roads are only a very small percentage of Indian roads.

abhi182, at the end you are going to be living with the car, so you have to buy what you feel like buying. Be it ANHC or SX4 you should enjoy it from the day you approach a sales man to the day you sell it. And thats possible only if you have your heart and soul on your purcahse aided by your brain. Waiting for your decision.

Last edited by Car&me : 10th December 2009 at 15:14. Reason: Indentation
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Old 10th December 2009, 15:12   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abhi182 View Post
Checked with the dealer
No discounts as such, but there is another friend who is plng to buy one, and if we buy 2, he is willing to offer 15K X2
In delhi, I am bieng offered a discount of 8k on ANHC .
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Old 10th December 2009, 15:27   #27
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Abhi, pardon me for asking a silly question but if you're willing to shell out for the ANHC, then why not the Cedia Sports which is one of the best drivers cars (I'm told) and comes fully loaded with all the equipment you would ever need?

Or is resale value a concern?
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Old 10th December 2009, 15:34   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car&me View Post
iTnerd, my brother owns a Honda city (2006) and I have extensive experience with the city and Honda. The car is a great car, but the premium he paid is not worth it (for us) by the attitude of Honda folks. He is looking at changing his car and he is avoiding ANHC, inspite of liking its looks, for the primary reason that its a Honda.
I agree.. the pricing of the NHC (2006-2007) was simply absurb! Compared to SX4 zxi, which at that time, was featured packed and cost less, it made much better sense to opt for it, which I did..but it is a completely different story now.. the ANHC is a complete different design from the old one.. it has more horses than the OHC, ABS+Airbags standard, much better handling and looks more like a mini-Civic with the steering, stance etc.. it even managed to pull significant number of potential Civic customers.. why spend 3-4 lacs more when you can get a smaller Civic with a bigger boot, better FE, same sporty steering with the audio controls and 15 bhp less.. see why 50,000 people bought it?

Quote:
As you cleary pointed out, there are probably not many like us, but for that few of us who are value conscious of what we buy there are products like cedia or Magnum or Sx4.GC not only helps to negotiate the speed breakers in the city but also roads that are not properly laid or maintained. There are lot of such roads which for majority of people are dont drive day in day out. But there are few set of people like me, who go through single lane roads, navigate through half road and half gravel to reach our farms, drive through village roads to reach certain business interests. We dont want a SUV for this, but a car like ANHC or Civic cannot fit the bill there. We need cars like SX4, fusion, innova to do that job. So it depends on what your driving path is on a daily basis. There are lot of such roads and lot of such people. NH and butter smooth roads are only a very small percentage of Indian roads.
See I failed to understand the argument.. previously, you mentioned ANHC is not VFM and overpriced.. now you are saying GC is a problem with ANHC/Civic..and Cedia/Magnum/SX4/Fusion etc, that you mentioned are good on bad roads..to some extent, yes, you may be right.. but even these cars driven on any kind of bad roads would have problem in suspension/tyre wears/rattles/fittings etc sooner or later, and clearly, they are NOT designed for such bad roads ... If GC was of a great necessity, these cars would have sold in great numbers, which is not the case..for the kind of roads you go through, clearly, the need is for a jeep/gypsy/SUV
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Old 10th December 2009, 16:16   #29
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iTnerd, the GC was my explanation about nandan's question for why everyone is talking about GC. A car like Sx4 is designed to take certain abuse. Whereas ANHC is nice family car for city rides and highway rides and not for frequent usage in the roads that I mentioned above. I am not saying SX4 will not have any issues. But then thats where the legendary Maruti A** and low cost maintenance helps. I have clearly said that it does not require a jeep and I have told the kind of cars that might suit these road conditions.

50,000 Honda city's talk something, and that something does not necessarily translate as the best product.

This discussion of Honda Pricing for their products and Honda attitudes will never have an ending. Atleast until people like me are there.

My effort was to try and provide my experience and facts to help abhi182 buy a car that he likes.

But I guess we are digressing more in to a Honda argument here. So let me help this thread.
I appreciate the passion of the Honda Owners and the statistics poured in. I am providing my 2 cents to help abhi182. I dont have any intention to cloud the image of Honda or pullaway the potential Honda buyers. But I am of the opinion that one should buy a car what he or she likes. 50,000 is a big weight which one needs to balance without getting overwhelmed.
I am pulling form this side so that he is not pulled in atleast until the decision time.
For people looking from the other side it looks like I am pulling him away from the ANHC side. All I am trying to do is help him pull the other way so that he can still be on the wall before he jumps in with his decision.

Hey I own a cedia and just like HM / Mitsu I am not good at sales (selling points).
But I am eager to take part in all auto discussions, just like my cedia which eagerly does everything the driver wants from it.

I am closing it from my side, let the buying begin

Last edited by Car&me : 10th December 2009 at 16:24.
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Old 10th December 2009, 16:28   #30
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Last week's AutoCar show had a comparison between the ANHC and the updated SX4 and they picked the ANHC. I have driven the SX4 and felt that it lacks the refinement that we expect from an 8 Lakh car.
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