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Old 11th December 2009, 10:06   #46
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I guess we're talking Manual Transmission only here

Note that the top spec SX4 ZXi which has loads of features is about Rs 1 -1.25 Lac less than the Honda City normal spec one - Bangalore ON Road.

Frankly how much is badge value worth when specs/ features and value propositions offered by competition are so much better?

Plus, all these track testing timings and so on have little or no relevance in daily driving scenarios given the kind of traffic we have + road conditions too.

Sure the car's overall " look, feel and so on" needs to inspire a very high level of "emotional connect" before one plonks one's hard earned bucks on the table!

But most of us would generally prefer to buy a car which gives one good bang for the buck and will be able to take the general operating conditions easily and whose servicing and other things dont cause headaches or wallet aches!

I'd say the "sensible choice" would be the Zxi SX4 without a doubt in this particular aspect.
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Old 11th December 2009, 10:37   #47
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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
I guess we're talking Manual Transmission only here

Note that the top spec SX4 ZXi which has loads of features is about Rs 1 -1.25 Lac less than the Honda City normal spec one - Bangalore ON Road.

Frankly how much is badge value worth when specs/ features and value propositions offered by competition are so much better?

Plus, all these track testing timings and so on have little or no relevance in daily driving scenarios given the kind of traffic we have + road conditions too.

Sure the car's overall " look, feel and so on" needs to inspire a very high level of "emotional connect" before one plonks one's hard earned bucks on the table!

But most of us would generally prefer to buy a car which gives one good bang for the buck and will be able to take the general operating conditions easily and whose servicing and other things dont cause headaches or wallet aches!

I'd say the "sensible choice" would be the Zxi SX4 without a doubt in this particular aspect.
I agree with you shankar!
pick up any auto mag and youll find them blasting even Mercs and Audis for some or the other reason like rear seat space, performance in the low range, etc.

ive never heard any of SX4 owners complaining about serious (or even minor) rattling. in fact the car is so sturdily built that even after doing thousands of kilometers on bad roads, my car is rock solid with no sound except the engine, AC and my wife's chattering (non-stop).
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Old 11th December 2009, 11:00   #48
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The ANHC is faster than the Cedia in a straight line. That is for sure. However, around a track, I doubt it. Highly doubt it.

Even if you consider both the cars in their stock form, the Cedia has 195/60 R15 Potenza RE88s and the ANHC has 175/65 R15 XM1+. N o freaking way the ANHC will have better grip. Impossible.

I am not commenting on the lap times. Maybe there are a lot of straights due to which the outright power to weight ratio of the ANHC favours it, but not in the corners.
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Old 11th December 2009, 11:43   #49
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Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
The ANHC is faster than the Cedia in a straight line. That is for sure. However, around a track, I doubt it. Highly doubt it.

Even if you consider both the cars in their stock form, the Cedia has 195/60 R15 Potenza RE88s and the ANHC has 175/65 R15 XM1+. N o freaking way the ANHC will have better grip. Impossible.

I am not commenting on the lap times. Maybe there are a lot of straights due to which the outright power to weight ratio of the ANHC favours it, but not in the corners.
Actually, in straight line (0-100), Cedia is marginally faster (I think 10.23 secs against 10.28 secs ) and Cedia's in gear acceleration is considerably better then ANHC. But on the track, some of the speeds recorded (like top speed, exit speeds at various bends) were bellow ANHC.

Narain attributed the inability of Cedia to carry speed in to the corners to it's softer suspension setup.
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Old 11th December 2009, 12:09   #50
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Originally Posted by SkyWalker View Post
Sorry dude - but you are wrong. I say again : only 34% said "no rattles". Everyone else said their are rattles - serious or otherwise.
Ah I hate to stretch things, but repetitive ignorance is hazardous. Though these are just numbers, but might affect somebody's decisions. I am sure you are getting confused between number people voted and percentage

SX4 Zxi or ANHC? EDIT : Bought SX4!-sx4.jpg
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Old 11th December 2009, 12:34   #51
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If you are in Pune : I would suggest you stay away from Honda. Why ? Because of the after sales service. Deccan Honda is no good at all. My experience with them with my OHC has been terrible. Don't really know about Crystal Honda - it is still relatively new.
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Old 11th December 2009, 12:36   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkbharat View Post
I am sure you are getting confused between number people voted and percentage
sorry, you are right - i made a mistake there!

But still, its not far off. Only 41% people think that their SX4 dont rattle. Thats a very pathetic numbers for a car which does is supposed to be in 8-9L range.

Btw, i am not trying to prevent anyone from buying SX4. I have already told abhi that he should go for SX4 since his heart is in it. He mentioned rattles as a concern and i am giving him an input.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SX4LOVER View Post
ive never heard any of SX4 owners complaining about serious (or even minor) rattling. i
check the thread mentioned above and you will see a lot of them talking about rattles.

Last edited by SkyWalker : 11th December 2009 at 12:43.
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Old 11th December 2009, 12:40   #53
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Good job rk.

SX4 is VFM for the price you pay for. But here HONDA is milking money from its customers by its brand value.
Had tried the same with JAZZ, but our customers have a given good retard.

Honda attitude is very different from Toyota's being equal auto giants.
At the end I'm a Japaneses fan-boy.
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Old 11th December 2009, 13:00   #54
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Originally Posted by SX4LOVER View Post
ive never heard any of SX4 owners complaining about serious (or even minor) rattling.
OK. You didn't hear me then. I have minor rattling/squeaking issues. Though I am not happy about it, there are many positives which I will not find in other cars. GC, Space, VFM etc..Overall I am very satisfied as of now with SX4.
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Old 11th December 2009, 13:28   #55
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Things are getting pretty serious here and I thought I will lighten it up.
Please read this with light heart. There is no offence intended on any brand or anyone.

A wanted to buy a car and went to B who is his mentor (found him at the next door apartment and this B advised him in finding the right grocery store. so he became the mentor for A)

A: 'Saar, I want to buy a car for around 10 lakhs, what should I buy?'

B: ' my friend's wife's friend's brother's boss has a Honda, its called something, town or City, thats looking good yaar. My friend told that it was really good to sit as well. Ford is american, they only talk. Toyota is Japanese too, but they dont talk. Mitsubishi, they stopped producing cars after they stopped lancer. Then you have Fiat, which they are going to close the factory. Chevrolet company is good only for Tavera. Maruti dont have anything other than alto and 800. Suzuki - Sx4 is low in mileage, Tata does not have car for 10 lakhs. Buy Honda you will not loose anything even if you sell it after 5 years.'

A: 'Ok saar, Lets go and check it out this weekend'

Weekend comes both goes to Honda showroon

A: 'sir the car is looking good sir'

B: 'I told you na'

Salesman: ' Sir where do you work?'

A:'XYZ Company'
Salesman: ' is it a new company?'
A: 'No, its there for 10 years, we have 7000 employees there'

Salesman:'yes sir, we sold 13 cars to your company people sir. even 2 months back mr.Z came here for enquiry about car and we sold him a city. Nice person sir'
A: 'what kind of discounts you provide'

salesman: 'sir this is a Honda sir. we have sold 50,000 cars of this model. so no discount sir, its very hot car sir. we only have very few left out in our stock. If you dont select between this black and that black both colors will be sold out tomorrow. then you have to wait for atleast a week. the choice is yours sir. Because you are asking I will give you free mats and a teflon coating. Sir please dont tell this to mr.Z sir, we did not give him this offer sir. Moreover this offer is only for 1 week. the our MD is going abroad and we stop this offer'

B:' Oye, dont miss the chance yaar. Honda usually is fixed price only, say ok'

A: 'What about Loans?'
Salesman: ' Sir Honda has connection with all banks in India sir. Everyone is in queue to give loans because its a Honda. But this weekend only ICICI and Axis bank is here sir, the rest have gone for Toyota dealer. ICICI and Axis are very good and so we did not allow them to go there.'

A: 'Good. I have an ICICI ATM near my apartment, its fundu in there, 3 A/Cs and 4 ATMs with seperate doors for each ATM. They take care of customers so I am sure their loans will be good.'

A: ' Salesman, can we go for a round in the car?'

Salesman: 'this being saturday usually lot of appointments are booked sir, since you came without appointment I will check if it is there sir, give me few minutes'

After 5 minutes:
Salesman: 'Sir the car is ready sir, Please wait for a minute here, I will bring the car in 5 minutes outside sir'

After 5 minutes, Salesman comes with the car and asks A to take the key

A:' B saar, you drive sir.'

B:' Ok come on A, you want to sit in the back or front?'

A:' Saar when you are there how can I sit in the back sir'

B starts driving A is fiddeling with the music system, ac knobs and all that.

B:'Salesman, what will be the mileage?'

Saleman: ' Sir minimum 15 sir'

A:' thats great, my current car gives only 14'

A: 'How about maintenance'
Salesman: 'Sir its a honda sir, no maintenance required, all pukka. I guarantee you'
B:'Its true yaar, I have a Honda Activa, no mainteance at all. All Honda products are too good.'

Salesman: ' Sir take this right turn sir, we dont go beyond this point for demo. there are some speed breakers on the road ahead.'
B:'No yaar, we will take the left turn, the right turn has some bad patches, I dont want to take the new car on that. Dont worry I am in this area for more than a year, I know all shortcuts.'

After a 'Round' A&B come to the showroom, B pulls A aside
B:'how do you feel? good na? its so smooth man i did not feel any speed breaker or rough patches. I am sure your family will love it'

A:' I like the car very much, but is it not looking small compared to SX4 which is cheaper?'

B:'Oye SX4 is from Maruti Suzuki, Indian car. Honda is Japan. I know VW Beetle which looks only the size of swift and has 2 doors only but Rs 20 lakhs. compared to that this is one is cheap yaar. And its a Honda, no maintenance at all, you heard the salesman giving guarantee right?'

A:'Yes sir, its like benz in India, Honda has good image sir, I have seen lot of people at the hotels coming and getting down in this car. When their driver comes and opens the door it looks royal. I think I have to ask my driver to wear white and white and be royal and come and open the door in that kind of places. I am happy sir.'

A: ' Salesman, I will book the car, only if I get this black color with floor mat and Tefloncoating not etc money'

Salesman: 'ok sir, if you give me a booking amount now, I will book it right away sir, then no one can ask for this car sir'

A:' is it, ok, I have only Rs 10k is that fine?'
Salesman:'thats ok sir, will talk to the manager and do a do a special booking'

A: 'ok here you go, and I need this to be delivered within Friday, because on Friday we have a pooja'.
Salesman: 'Ok sir, we will make it happen sir, there are lot of deliveries this week, but I will do that specially sir'

B & A return home with a sense of accomplishment and the car is delivered on the Friday.
At the pooja

all people: 'Sir A, the car looks excellent sir'
B: 'I told you na'
A: 'Yes sir, thank you very much sir'

Lets loosen up a bit and replace Honda with any manufacturer and city with any other car. I prefer Mitsu and Cedia, since I own them.

You all have a happy weekend and lets go for 'Round' with our favourite cars.

Last edited by Car&me : 11th December 2009 at 13:31.
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Old 11th December 2009, 13:32   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramsagar View Post
But here HONDA is milking money from its customers by its brand value.
You know, its sweeping statements like these that lead to unnecessary debating. On the same topic over and over again

- By that yardstick, you would also think that Toyota is milking customers with the Innova? After all, it does charge 2.5 lakhs more for an MUV that is less spacious, less powerful and less fuel efficient? Fortunately, the market does see value in all rounder products. The Innova sells substantially more than the Xylo, and the City than the SX4. Spend a little time considering their all-rounded nature, no single serious product flaw, way superior resale and the absolute ability to perform day after day without complaint.

- The OHC Vtec cost about the same as the ANHC in Y2000. In todays terms, and bring inflation into the picture, the OHC's price is far more. Note, the ANHC is substantially more car for the money than the OHC. It is better in nearly everyway. Yet, does any OHC owner regret his purchase? Not me, nor the many other OHC owners on the forum. Why? Because the car has proven itself in our 7 - 12 years of ownership with an absolutely hassle-free experience, class leading performance & fuel efficiency and is an absolute blast to drive. Hey, I'm putting my money where my mouth is. The 7 year old OHC in my garage is still NOT for sale. And won't be for another couple of years. The fact is, the ANHC is one of the BEST all rounders from the C segment today. There is a reason it sold 5,000 cars in a recent month, all across India, in the most culturally diverse markets, while some of its competitors are selling only 1,000.

Coming back to the topic, both the ANHC and the SX4 are great buys (though I'd use "good" rather than "great" for the SX4). But between the two, if you can stretch your budget, the ANHC is undoubtedly a superior car.

Last edited by GTO : 11th December 2009 at 13:33.
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Old 11th December 2009, 14:13   #57
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Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
You missed the one which smoked all these cars on the track driven by the same Narain!
That's right. There is only one king of the track. Brutal power, razor sharp handling and sexy as hell. But why are we poking our noses into an SX4 vs. ANHC debate? lol

To add my 2p, if I were the OP and I had the money and had to decide between these two, I would pick the ANHC any day.
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Old 11th December 2009, 14:18   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
You know, its sweeping statements like these that lead to unnecessary debating. On the same topic over and over again

- By that yardstick, you would also think that Toyota is milking customers with the Innova? After all, it does charge 2.5 lakhs more for an MUV that is less spacious, less powerful and less fuel efficient? Fortunately, the market does see value in all rounder products. The Innova sells substantially more than the Xylo, and the City than the SX4. Spend a little time considering their all-rounded nature, no single serious product flaw, way superior resale and the absolute ability to perform day after day without complaint.

- The OHC Vtec cost about the same as the ANHC in Y2000. In todays terms, and bring inflation into the picture, the OHC's price is far more. Note, the ANHC is substantially more car for the money than the OHC. It is better in nearly everyway. Yet, does any OHC owner regret his purchase? Not me, nor the many other OHC owners on the forum. Why? Because the car has proven itself in our 7 - 12 years of ownership with an absolutely hassle-free experience, class leading performance & fuel efficiency and is an absolute blast to drive. Hey, I'm putting my money where my mouth is. The 7 year old OHC in my garage is still NOT for sale. And won't be for another couple of years. The fact is, the ANHC is one of the BEST all rounders from the C segment today. There is a reason it sold 5,000 cars in a recent month, all across India, in the most culturally diverse markets, while some of its competitors are selling only 1,000.

Coming back to the topic, both the ANHC and the SX4 are great buys (though I'd use "good" rather than "great" for the SX4). But between the two, if you can stretch your budget, the ANHC is undoubtedly a superior car.
right to the point GTO! The typical point of the critics is that Honda is charging a premium for the brand, its over-priced, snob value blah blah... and sometime, it has become a trend setter in this forum whenever there is a discussion involving Honda..

If you can afford it, ANHC is a wise buy.. if budget is a restraint, SX4 is a good deal.. neither car can go wrong in terms of reliability, low cost of ownership and resale!
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Old 11th December 2009, 14:32   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
You know, its sweeping statements like these that lead to unnecessary debating. On the same topic over and over again

- By that yardstick, you would also think that Toyota is milking customers with the Innova? After all, it does charge 2.5 lakhs more for an MUV that is less spacious, less powerful and less fuel efficient? Fortunately, the market does see value in all rounder products. The Innova sells substantially more than the Xylo, and the City than the SX4. Spend a little time considering their all-rounded nature, no single serious product flaw, way superior resale and the absolute ability to perform day after day without complaint.

- The OHC Vtec cost about the same as the ANHC in Y2000. In todays terms, and bring inflation into the picture, the OHC's price is far more. Note, the ANHC is substantially more car for the money than the OHC. It is better in nearly everyway. Yet, does any OHC owner regret his purchase? Not me, nor the many other OHC owners on the forum. Why? Because the car has proven itself in our 7 - 12 years of ownership with an absolutely hassle-free experience, class leading performance & fuel efficiency and is an absolute blast to drive. Hey, I'm putting my money where my mouth is. The 7 year old OHC in my garage is still NOT for sale. And won't be for another couple of years. The fact is, the ANHC is one of the BEST all rounders from the C segment today. There is a reason it sold 5,000 cars in a recent month, all across India, in the most culturally diverse markets, while some of its competitors are selling only 1,000.

Coming back to the topic, both the ANHC and the SX4 are great buys (though I'd use "good" rather than "great" for the SX4). But between the two, if you can stretch your budget, the ANHC is undoubtedly a superior car.
Well said GTO, can't explain any better than this. My two cents,
I currently own a Honda City ZX Vtec for the 4th year, it's got it's advantages and disadvantages though. I always felt the handling of the car and the steering feedback is lacking at high speeds, but on the other side, I haven't had a single problem or a breakdown for 65K kms. It's still a superbly refined car. So, both these cars that you are talking about have their pros and cons, and people pay for what they want. So it's a choice, and you make that choice and be happy.

Cheers,
Laxminarayan
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Old 11th December 2009, 14:51   #60
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Affordability is an extremely relative/ subjective thing, so this logic would apply across segments and types - no doubt.

I d only like to add that it is not ONLY a question of affordability which has an impact but the "perceived value proposition" as well as a host of other tangibles & intangibles.

and yes both cars have their advantages & disadvantages etc so one man's meat can well be another man's poison for a variety of reasons.

my main argument in favour of the SX4 here is that a relatively larger base of consumers would tend to view the choice given, from the stand point of overall value proposition and decide accordingly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iTNerd View Post
If you can afford it, ANHC is a wise buy.. if budget is a restraint, SX4 is a good deal.. neither car can go wrong in terms of reliability, low cost of ownership and resale!
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