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Old 15th September 2005, 23:40   #76
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Crap, 165s?! And a race clutch? Now you're getting headers, from either Domnic or Psycho? Iceman, can I borrow your car?!

ps. What colour is your car?

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Old 15th September 2005, 23:57   #77
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Viper,I didnt buy Vtec for racing but to enjoy the sheer pleasure of that HONDA technology...which you are sadly deprived of!!!

Buffetfan, Im sorry to say but you know nothing about Indian rally scene man !!! You are comparing MRF and MUL full sponsored balenos Vs obsolete OHC(not even Vtec's) self sponsored by Chettinad sporting from kerala with Gulf oil help,,,that too just 1 or 2 cars in comparison to a dozen esteems and balenos!!! Further, The most experienced drivers in the circuit are bought by MRF and they are paid loads as they are hired drivers but the other guys only source of joy was the price money and meagre publicity...Brother I can only imagine the merciful plight of your Baleno once Honda Racing involves...You gettin me man??? Just look at a broader spectrum of life man "HONDA Racing Vs MRF"...pretty rhetoric aint it pal???

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Old 16th September 2005, 00:04   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r
Buffetfan, please remember that the articles you have cited are for the 2005 INRC rallies. The OHC Vtec has been out of production for almost 2 years. Spares are hard to come by, as are new/good machines. Besides, the Marutis get some sort of factory support, I think. Before the OHC went out of production, INRC was basically Vtec territory, in the 1400+ classes.

I can think of only two Balenos to take on Hondas, one is Vinod's Scooby lookalike, and one was Iceman's car.

p.s. I own a Baleno too!
Viper,
the first win Baleno had was in 2001...guess we still had some decent OHCs around then....

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2001/20010818/sports.htm

Baleno's were retired at the end of that season due to some reliability problems including sheared wheel rims...and also possibly due to lack of support from Maruti...

all I am trying to say here is that a modded Baleno can beat a modded VTec...it is not an uneven race by any count....rest is up to the driver..Of course in stock..VTec might be faster..but cant be sure abt the OHC (refer to the OverDrive test I referred)

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Old 16th September 2005, 00:09   #79
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No doubt the Baleno is not outright humiliated by the Vtec, but it is still slower. And Buffetfan, one swallow does not a summer make, if you get my drift.

Wolfman, I'm pretty well versed with Honda technology, having owned two OHCs!!! So, who's doing your headers, and what colour is your car?
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Old 16th September 2005, 00:18   #80
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Viper,I didnt buy Vtec for racing but to enjoy the sheer pleasure of that HONDA technology...which you are sadly deprived of!!!

Buffetfan, Im sorry to say but you know nothing about Indian rally scene man !!! You are comparing MRF and MUL full sponsored balenos Vs obsolete OHC(not even Vtec's) self sponsored by Chettinad sporting from kerala with Gulf oil help,,,that too just 1 or 2 cars in comparison to a dozen esteems and balenos!!! Further, The most experienced drivers in the circuit are bought by MRF and they are paid loads as they are hired drivers but the other guys only source of joy was the price money and meagre publicity...Brother I can only imagine the merciful plight of your Baleno once Honda Racing involves...You gettin me man??? Just look at a broader spectrum of life man "HONDA Racing Vs MRF"...pretty rhetoric aint it pal???
I am not a rally driver...but do like to know the current situation of my car...which is quite different from...the sad situation that OHC (including VTecs) enjoy on the India rally scene now.



So what if they were modded...we are only talking of modded m/c here...and FYI, Baleno's were faster all along..including 2001...it was only reliability issues that plagued them
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2001/20010818/sports.htm

Quote:
Buffetfan, Im sorry to say but you know nothing about Indian rally scene man !!!
Do not try to measure another person's knowledge...please try to increase your own and that will help immensly in the long run...
165/60 may not be the best tyres to race in...good to spin your wheels though but that aint going to get you beyound the starting line

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 17th September 2005 at 10:53.
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Old 16th September 2005, 00:19   #81
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Test drive one and you will surely know what i mean!
i have, busa...and for quite some distance, in fact. agreed, the throttle is responsive and the engine sounds good- but tried slick-shifting with that long lever and that awkward throw..?? trust me, the diesel is better, because at least you can justify the shifts...


Quote:
Well i never knew you modifying but you personal preference of a fast car shows that you cant drive a slow little sluggish Swift
agreed, the swift in stock form is a li'l slow for my tastes....but hey, the chassis is extremely competent, and can handle much more than many mid-sizers.....and since we're talkin' about tastes, the 350Z or the evo is much more like my cuppa tea....

Quote:
How will te car become faster with wider and bigger rubber.
by increasing the traction and rolling distance. with a bigger wheel, the car travels more distance per revolution of the driveshaft. now, theoretically, if a car travels 1 metre per revolution of the driveshaft on stock wheels, increasing the wheel size would mean travelling 1+xx metres.... but in this theory, there are a lot of factors coming into play- like offsprung weight, torque required, etc.

Quote:
Yeah, I agree with you BUSA, the RS is over-hyped. No offense to owners, but you can buy an Accord for less, or a V6 for a lakh more. And a Vtec is just as quick, at (now) a third of the price!
i beg to differ- the vtec might be a good thrill-machine, but the rs is way quicker after the 140 kmph mark; and then there are superior brakes, stability, etc... but yes, for tuning, the accord is a better bet . the V6 is a downer, because of one main factor- it's an automatic. give the 3.0 a manual, and i can see myself standing in queue at linkway honda at 6.00 a.m on a sunday morning with a cheque clenched in my hand....

Quote:
Besides, the Marutis get some sort of factory support, I think.
yes, v1p3r. maruti has in-house tuners for it's rally cars. in fact, maruti supplies rally cars on a order basis....and regarding the hondas in the INRC, maruti hadn't woken up to the potential of the balenos till then. rally prepped balenos had a weak link- the suspension. somehow, the wheel studs seemed to break quite often, and some of the front suspension components had problems...

the point is this- in stock form, i would prefer the vtec; it's a trouble free and fast machine. the only problem i have is regarding ergonomics- the damn steering fouls with my legs due to lack of space. but given the freedom to tinker, i would jump at the baleno....
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Old 16th September 2005, 00:28   #82
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Veyron, what I meant was, the Vtec is as quick as an RS in a quarter-mile scenario. Also, I think 3 Vtecs for the price of 1 RS (at present) is a bit of a clincher. No doubt, the RS is a good car in itself. My view is, it would be a lot better at 2 lakhs less.

The V6? Well, either you can source an Acura coupe 6 speed manual box from abroad, or scout hard for an alternate. I always wonder, can the 2.4 gearbox handle the power from the V6?

Veyron, I agree with you a 100%. Daily drive, unmodded, maybe a Vtec is better (except in heavy traffic). Mod mania? Baleno it is.
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Old 16th September 2005, 00:32   #83
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Well Well...BuffetMan, let me tell you something; Firstly Im not intending to put you down or your machine...Im just vainly trying to make you realise the extent of critical learning that you have with respect to Indian rallying...I promise Im not trying to convince you but self sponsoring and finishing rallys with good timing is worth a laymans applaud...rather on the lighter side, they have several podium finishes which you kinda have ignored I guess...anyways..facts remain facts. Further, I myself have milked Balenos day in and out that would like put cows to shame...This thread is about which car is faster,,,it doesnt say which car is faster after modification...Ignorance is blisssssss.....Hey brother, You didnt speak anything about Honda Racing Vs MRF???why why???
And yeah its 185/60...typo thingie!

viper, I have an emerald green Vtec...

Last edited by The Wolf : 16th September 2005 at 00:39.
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Old 16th September 2005, 00:35   #84
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[
Veyron, I agree with you a 100%. Daily drive, unmodded, maybe a Vtec is better (except in heavy traffic). Mod mania? Baleno it is.

__________________
[/quote]
I agree too...all my arguments were to talk abt modded Baleno's. In stock form VTecs are faster...however, with regular OHCs...it depends on the driver
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Old 16th September 2005, 00:45   #85
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But you didnt speak anything about Honda Racing Vs MRF???why why???
Wolf,
I did not...Cause this is an imaginary situation...the next we will be discussing is Suzuki Versus Honda....endless debat that does not take one anywhere...

So what if Honda can spend more money..they are not spending...right..

The current situation is that VTecs are not winning anymore..and they would not win earlier as well if Maruti had woken up to the issue of sheared rims and suspesion lower arms issue earlier...the Race that Baleno finished...it won...that is what the m/c is capable of.....

.Sad for the VTec but the fact remains that a Modded Baleno (within the rules) can easily manage the likes of VTec. Stock m/c is a different story though and VTecs are faster.

Quote:
This thread is about which car is faster,,,it doesnt say which car is faster after modification...Ignorance is blisssssss
One should look at both the sides of the coin..this is in my view an extension of the argument. On the other hand it was surely not abt what tyre size you have in your VTec..that you reproduced...

Anyway..my last post on the topic..I have produced some data while all the you have produced is opinions....which IMHO does not convince others much.

Last edited by Buffetfan : 16th September 2005 at 00:54.
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Old 16th September 2005, 00:54   #86
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Buffetfan, its easier to post a few links than to know the reality of it all but I appreciate you time and patience getting those up,,,really...Dude, Vtecs arent there to race dude,,,where will they win from and lose from? they arent in production since 1yr +...why dont you get it??If you go 6 fully sponsored balenos Vs 6 fully sponsored Vtecs, we dont need to be scientists to guess the result!!
Anywys now that you have decided to concede, I will respect that...and relieve you.

Just for inf: I have done rallying myself...bikes though...I guess that gives me atleast a little edge over your self driven comprehension on rallying..."Last but not the least HONDA Racing Vs MUL Racing(mind you not suzuki as they invisible in car racing scene" sounds biased!!!

Last edited by The Wolf : 16th September 2005 at 01:11.
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Old 16th September 2005, 00:59   #87
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You own a Vtec, and you've rallied? Now I'm really jealous.
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Old 16th September 2005, 01:03   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r
You own a Vtec, and you've rallied? Now I'm really jealous.
Hey dude nothing big man,,,was getting better in rallying when back strain compelled my exit... done lot of drag racing though...
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Old 16th September 2005, 16:48   #89
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Talking Vtec Baleno!

Quote:
i have, busa...and for quite some distance, in fact. agreed, the throttle is responsive and the engine sounds good- but tried slick-shifting with that long lever and that awkward throw..?? trust me, the diesel is better, because at least you can justify the shifts...
but then again gearshift is always secondary! That motor screams like crazy when you near 3500RPM and you have to shift up! Its slower then even a Scorpio!

Quote:
agreed, the swift in stock form is a li'l slow for my tastes....but hey, the chassis is extremely competent, and can handle much more than many mid-sizers.....and since we're talkin' about tastes, the 350Z or the evo is much more like my cuppa tea....
Haha! What about an Enzo for that matter. Or the CGT! Buttt what the hell will i do with the chassy! Man it does nor move so SWIFTLY as it should have been!

Quote:
i beg to differ- the vtec might be a good thrill-machine, but the rs is way quicker after the 140 kmph mark; and then there are superior brakes, stability, etc... but yes, for tuning, the accord is a better bet . the V6 is a downer, because of one main factor- it's an automatic. give the 3.0 a manual, and i can see myself standing in queue at linkway honda at 6.00 a.m on a sunday morning with a cheque clenched in my hand....
I totally agree! Butt honda wont remove the 3.0 Manual since it will be really overpowered! But you can buy it and convert it to manual! Seen many lancer owners doing it on the Invex. Bought it and changed the gearbox!

Quote:
yes, v1p3r. maruti has in-house tuners for it's rally cars. in fact, maruti supplies rally cars on a order basis....and regarding the hondas in the INRC, maruti hadn't woken up to the potential of the balenos till then. rally prepped balenos had a weak link- the suspension. somehow, the wheel studs seemed to break quite often, and some of the front suspension components had problems...
I still remember last year Balenos after the sad demise of the vtec were flying at speeds of 140 where safety speed was only 100! Man 100 in 2nd must really feel great!

Quote:
the point is this- in stock form, i would prefer the vtec; it's a trouble free and fast machine. the only problem i have is regarding ergonomics- the damn steering fouls with my legs due to lack of space. but given the freedom to tinker, i would jump at the baleno....
Thats the problem with even the RS. The tilt steering is not so well flexible! Best idea would be to buy a Baleno and plant that 1.5 SOHC 16V Variable Valeve Timing Engine with Lift Electronic Control from the OHC.. Hitting two birds with one nail! LOL

Quote:
You own a Vtec, and you've rallied? Now I'm really jealous
So am I

P.S Baleno and Vtec to each own! Both cars are great cars in their segment and do what they do best!! That is they simply love to FLY!!!!!

Last edited by BUSA : 16th September 2005 at 16:54.
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Old 16th September 2005, 18:01   #90
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Haha! What about an Enzo for that matter. Or the CGT! Buttt what the hell will i do with the chassy! Man it does nor move so SWIFTLY as it should have been!
an enzo..?? man, you got weird tastes.... i would rather smoke an enzo in my skyline rather than pay the price of ten skylines and be stuck behind... and what's a CGT..?? if you meant the carrera GT, then yeah, that would be one of my choices too..

and regarding the chassis- that's the INTEGRAL part of any car..!!! you can mod the engine, change the engine, do the suspension, and what not- but if the chassis isn't stiff enough, it'll still be a rolling bowl of jelly on a track - potential, is the key word; and modding the chassis, somehow doesn't always work well. which is why i look for the OVERALL package - i need the car to do well on a track as well; man, quarter mile times or sheer speed isn't everything- you need to have a proper chassis on a track to bring that trophy home...

p.s- have you actually ripped the swift, before commenting on it's dynamics..?? i suggest you do so, and i'm sure you'll appreciate the potential in the li'l bugger....
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