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View Poll Results: If I had to buy one of these two sedans today I will put my money on,
Swift DZire 76 23.46%
Tata Manza 248 76.54%
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Old 9th August 2010, 15:57   #256
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Originally Posted by HammerHead View Post
Cool down man. These were quiet harsh comments.
Er..maybe yeah! They were. Apologies.

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Originally Posted by HammerHead View Post
So end of the day what is similar, specs. wise, in 1.3 DDiS of Swift/Dzire and 1.3 MJD/QJD in Manza/Linea/Punto 90HP? Just the engine capacity right?


Eh?? Not just the engine capacity but the engine itself. Only difference is in tuning and turbos. I guess there is a lot more to an engine than the two things or three you just mentioned. Is not it?

Even when talking about specifications, there is a lot more to engine specs than just the capacity, power and torque.
There can be two engines with same capacity yet different no. of cylinders, different bore and stroke, different configuration of cylinders, in short two engines of same capacity may be different in a thousand aspects.

But if you consider the 1.3 in Maruti vehicles, Vista, GP and the 1.3 in linea, manza and GP 90 all the engine specifications are largely the same and the difference is in turbo and tuning. So saying that the engines are similar only in terms of capacity is only fractionally correct.

Its like saying that Alto's 796 cc engine is similar to 800's 796 cc only in terms of capacity. Here again both the engines are largely the same not just in capacity but in almost every other aspect.

Or its like saying that as the 1.4 litre non turbo IDI in Indica NA produces lower torque and power than 1.4 litre IDI turbo of Indica Turbo, the two engines are similar only in capacities and nothing else when it comes to specifications. Which again is only fractionally correct.

So just like the 1.4 litre turbo has different power and torque figures than 1.4litre IDI NA engine but is still essentially the same motor with a turbo thrown in, the 1.3 Fiat mulitjet 75hp/DDIS is same as the 1.3 litre 90 hp multijet with the major difference being only in the geometry of turbo.

Hope you get the picture now.Phew..


Quote:
That correct, same base motor but with higher power and torque in Manza QJD/Linea MJD/Punto 90HP.
Yeah. But that increase in torque and power is a necessity in Manza. Picture this, Dzire has a lower power and torque output yet it is quicker to 100 kmph (as per ACI) and gives a slightly better efficiency (as per ARAI figures) thanks to excellent gear ratios and mapping by MUL.

Even the 90 hp punto is marginally faster than 75 hp punto. In city driving difference is negligible as I just found while driving both the cars.


Performance is not just about torque and power figures. Its also about power-to-weight, acceleration and driveability and as much about seat of the pants driving experience.

Drive a dzire immediately after driving a manza, believe you me, you won't feel that dzire is almost 15 bhp short on power.

Last edited by YC.BALENO.CHD : 9th August 2010 at 16:16.
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Old 9th August 2010, 18:26   #257
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Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD View Post
Eh?? Not just the engine capacity but the engine itself. Only difference is in tuning and turbos. I guess there is a lot more to an engine than the two things or three you just mentioned. Is not it?

Even when talking about specifications, there is a lot more to engine specs than just the capacity, power and torque. There can be two engines with same capacity yet different no. of cylinders, different bore and stroke, different configuration of cylinders, in short two engines of same capacity may be different in a thousand aspects.

But if you consider the 1.3 in Maruti vehicles, Vista, GP and the 1.3 in linea, manza and GP 90 all the engine specifications are largely the same and the difference is in turbo and tuning. So saying that the engines are similar only in terms of capacity is only fractionally correct.

Its like saying that Alto's 796 cc engine is similar to 800's 796 cc only in terms of capacity. Here again both the engines are largely the same not just in capacity but in almost every other aspect.

Or its like saying that as the 1.4 litre non turbo IDI in Indica NA produces lower torque and power than 1.4 litre IDI turbo of Indica Turbo, the two engines are similar only in capacities and nothing else when it comes to specifications. Which again is only fractionally correct.

So just like the 1.4 litre turbo has different power and torque figures than 1.4litre IDI NA engine but is still essentially the same motor with a turbo thrown in, the 1.3 Fiat mulitjet 75hp/DDIS is same as the 1.3 litre 90 hp multijet with the major difference being only in the geometry of turbo.

Hope you get the picture now.Phew..
So in short you are trying to tell me that a 1.3 MJD in Linea is exactly same as 1.3 DDiS in DZire? Interesting!! That means in your books Linea's 1.4 FIRE and upcoming 1.4 T-Jet is same engine so does the Abarth versions!!

Quote:
Even the 90 hp punto is marginally faster than 75 hp punto. In city driving difference is negligible as I just found while driving both the cars.
You cannot label Punto as a pure city car! I would rather call it a best compromise between 'city' and 'highway' running.

Quote:
Performance is not just about torque and power figures. Its also about power-to-weight, acceleration and driveability and as much about seat of the pants driving experience.
Sure. So what you think is the power-to-weight ratio of Manza compared to DZire? I mean is it better in Manza? I think its better in DZire hence 75BHP version feels better in DZire then Manza's 90BHP!!!
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Old 9th August 2010, 18:53   #258
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Well few months back we were comparing Dezire and Manza as my parents were looking for replacing their 8 year old Zen. In March 2010 , we bought manza Aura ABS QJT and reason for this is

1) Manza more spacious than Dezire.
2) Back seat comfort of Manza
3) Full time Chauffuer driven
4) Attitude of maruti ( If you want , take it)
5) Waiting period as mentioned by Maruti (Dezire diesel 6 months and petrol 3 months)
6) Shape of the car.
7) Manza comparatively cheaper

Now the car has done more than 4000K and there is not a single issue reported so far. Giving city traffic mileage of 16.7 to 17 and occasionly giving 20 on long drives!!!!

So my vote goes to Manza!!

Regards,
Gopi.
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Old 9th August 2010, 20:38   #259
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Originally Posted by GeekSrik View Post

the manza is something which will be similar to linea if not better. if space is utmost concern then its manza. if its sportiveness, swift.
+1.
Definitely Manza if space is priority. Plus it makes for a much better chauffeur driven car. Again Dzire seems a more sensible choice if one needs a self driven car with a hint of sportiness and if he is not concerned with the lack of legroom at rear.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerHead View Post
So in short you are trying to tell me that a 1.3 MJD in Linea is exactly same as 1.3 DDiS in DZire? Interesting!! That means in your books Linea's 1.4 FIRE and upcoming 1.4 T-Jet is same engine so does the Abarth versions!!
Kindly point it out where I have said that they are 'exactly' the same.

Quote:
You cannot label Punto as a pure city car! I would rather call it a best compromise between 'city' and 'highway' running.
Am not labeling it anything. Am just saying that the 15 hp bump in power is hardly evident in normal city driving. Again kindly point it out where I have said that punto is a 'pure city car'. I have not used any such words and I have not used any other words that may mean the same.

Read My previous post again, with some more attention this time.

Quote:
Sure. So what you think is the power-to-weight ratio of Manza compared to DZire? I mean is it better in Manza? I think its better in DZire hence 75BHP version feels better in DZire then Manza's 90BHP!!!
I know my writing skills are far from being perfect but am surprised that after I've talked so much about this issue in my last few posts you are again asking such questions. Its very much clear in my last few posts. I need not talk about same things time and again.


Regards.

Last edited by YC.BALENO.CHD : 9th August 2010 at 20:47.
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Old 9th August 2010, 20:38   #260
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hammerhead, i agree with baleno. sat in a punto and drove it. sat in a linea and drove it. sat in a dzire and actually enjoyed it. its spirited. thats what swift is about. the others arent spirited. its easier to reach 1700 rpm in any gear compared to 2000. believe me, swift is an easier car to throw around compared to manza. while i agree that manza is higher powered, bigger, spacious, when it comes to me being the driver, swift is definitely more driveable. and it bends to your whims and fancies if you know how to utilize its gear ratios well. i have driven silently and sedately yet at 80 and i ve made that quick dash from 0s to 60s outwitting everyone. thats what the car is about.

the manza is something which will be similar to linea if not better. if space is utmost concern then its manza. if its sportiveness, swift.
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Old 9th August 2010, 22:51   #261
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Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD View Post
Kindly point it out where I have said that they are 'exactly' the same.
I know you have not said so but after reading your rather 'strong' reply to fellow T-BHPian vishnurp99's post, it sounded like that.

So you too agree that 1.3DDiS is not exactly same as 1.3MJD in Linea? The base engine is same, no doubt about it, but thy do behave differently hence can be termed as different. Its not only me who think like that, even Fiat thinks in similar lines hence they have two Punto diesel top variants.

Quote:
Am not labeling it anything. Am just saying that the 15 hp bump in power is hardly evident in normal city driving. Again kindly point it out where I have said that punto is a 'pure city car'. I have not used any such words and I have not used any other words that may mean the same.

Read My previous post again, with some more attention this time.
Again I had to say that cause only driving it in city will not tell you the real story.
Quote:
I know my writing skills are far from being perfect but am surprised that after I've talked so much about this issue in my last few posts you are again asking such questions. Its very much clear in my last few posts. I need not talk about same things time and again.
Sorry if I missed your reply to similar post! I followed from your last post. I will again go through the whole thread and check your posts.
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Old 8th September 2010, 21:28   #262
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Originally Posted by GeekSrik View Post
hammerhead, i agree with baleno. sat in a punto and drove it. sat in a linea and drove it. sat in a dzire and actually enjoyed it. its spirited. thats what swift is about. the others arent spirited. its easier to reach 1700 rpm in any gear compared to 2000. believe me, swift is an easier car to throw around compared to manza. while i agree that manza is higher powered, bigger, spacious, when it comes to me being the driver, swift is definitely more driveable. and it bends to your whims and fancies if you know how to utilize its gear ratios well. i have driven silently and sedately yet at 80 and i ve made that quick dash from 0s to 60s outwitting everyone. thats what the car is about.

the manza is something which will be similar to linea if not better. if space is utmost concern then its manza. if its sportiveness, swift.

Firstly the comparison is between the Dzire and the Manza, and not between SWIFT which is a hatchback and Manza.

Secondly, the purpose of buying a car is not to outwit somebody.Specially If you buy a Maruti (Swift/Dzire/Sx4/Vitara) and Tata Nano/Indica.../Manza you will outwit someone, trust me mate you have not seen the world. Purpose of buying a car in this segment is to match your needs and not to outwit somebody with your performance coz trust me you can't. Unless you are a pro driver.Which you aren't.And i have my reasons to believe that.!

Thridly, Swift(I hope you mean the DZIRE, or maybe you were outwitting someone to notice that Swift is now packaged with a 180 KG boot,and is called DZIRE.) bends according to your whimps and fancies, REALLY?
Man the TATA's must fit a steering to the Manza you tested coz the one i tested does corners and is still planted unlike the boot job.

So here is an advice, Stop talking up the Dzire like it is some god sent F1 car by Maruti under 8 Lakhs. Trust me it is not! Nor is the manza. What they are, are just plain VFM/bargains and extremely successful cars in our market which will be laughed at. More so the Dzire for the boot job con job.
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Old 13th September 2010, 17:41   #263
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Guys ! Guys! Guys!

I got my Dezire VDI day before yestrday. Extemely Pleased!! and Happy. This Poll helped me a lot while making my decision although it has favorism towards Manza. I have a close friend and i saw him fighting with TATAs for continous issues from the very point of time when he took the delivery. He wrote to all higher - ups in TATA for all the isues he faced but the issue could not get sorted out. I had considered Manza also while making the decision alsong with Fiat Linea, Hundai Verna. Anyways its everybody's own decision but I took the decision on Test Drive of TATA Manza- Dezire , checking up with all close friends who have Dezire , Linea and also the above famous Manza.

I booked this car on 6th June and the car was ready at the 31st of August but I took the delivery on very auspicious day of Ganesh Chaturthi.

Tarkesh
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Old 21st September 2010, 08:34   #264
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Guys ! Guys! Guys!

I got my Dezire VDI day before yestrday. Extemely Pleased!! and Happy. This Poll helped me a lot while making my decision although it has favorism towards Manza. I have a close friend and i saw him fighting with TATAs for continous issues from the very point of time when he took the delivery. He wrote to all higher - ups in TATA for all the isues he faced but the issue could not get sorted out. I had considered Manza also while making the decision alsong with Fiat Linea, Hundai Verna. Anyways its everybody's own decision but I took the decision on Test Drive of TATA Manza- Dezire , checking up with all close friends who have Dezire , Linea and also the above famous Manza.
Congrats on your decision to buy the dzire. Hope it lives up to your expectations.

Guys also check my thread on my Manza, 2 service and 10k+ on the odo later here http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...e-beast-6.html (Manza (QJD AURA ABS)..My Royal White Beast!!)

Last edited by kingpin1 : 21st September 2010 at 08:35.
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Old 19th November 2010, 19:00   #265
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We are shopping for a Petrol Sedan and Narrowed down to the Manza vs Dzire

Really the Manza is a much better package (purely objectively as a machine/car) - It has better interior space, a better ride quality, similar levels of fit and finish (though this maybe hard to believe due to perceptions of Tata vs Maruti), slightly better handling and comparable (and IMHO maybe even a little better) driveability than the Dzire (this is applicable to both Petrol and Diesel).

Where the Dzire wins is its lineage (Both of Maruti generically as well as of the Swift specifically) a better A.S.S network, better market acceptance, and probably better resale (though I'm not sure if this will hold true 4-5 years - with the market dynamics changing)

This shows in the fact that after extensive Test Drives over the past week (Mostly on the diesel cars) - everyone (we are a bunch of 7 people who are arguing out the decision ) who has been in the Manza acknowledges its a better car - but before the TD, I was the only one "pushing" for a Tata.

The family was ready to finalize a Petrol Dzire based on seperate TD's of Diesel Dzire and Petrol Swift (as the Petrol Dzire was'nt available), but when the Tata guys suggested that we TD the Quadrajet as petrol would be available only after 2-3 days - it was brushed away - "If they can't show us a car for TD how will they service it - obviously no one buys a petrol Tata" were the general sentiments

I accept this is slightly as this thread is about the Diesel Cars - but I felt it relevant to the discussion

Last edited by adisag : 19th November 2010 at 19:04.
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Old 19th November 2010, 19:22   #266
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@adisag :

The only good thing about Dezire is Maruti Lineage and the only bad thing about Manza is Tata Lineage. Maruti no doubt awesome After Sales Supp, caring customer care, etc. etc. Whereas in Tata you will not find anything like that.

I hate the looks of Dezire (only personal view no offense intended) and like the looks of Manza. However, I am scared to buy a Tata car and Maruti can be bought any day in India.

Decision : Believe me this is very very difficult Mind says Dezire(just because it's Maruti), Heart says Manza because it looks better.

Last edited by SinghBHP : 19th November 2010 at 19:24.
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Old 19th November 2010, 22:08   #267
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looks totally depends on perception. A co-worker of mine feels Manza is the ugliest car, in fact he says it doesn't even look like a car!

I personally prefer Manza over the Dzire in terms of looks.
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Old 19th November 2010, 22:31   #268
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A co-worker of mine feels Manza is the ugliest car, in fact he says it doesn't even look like a car!
Did he say Manza is ugly compared to DZire?
I agree that Manza does not have great looks compared to other sedans around.

Last edited by HammerHead : 19th November 2010 at 22:32.
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Old 19th November 2010, 22:37   #269
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Did he say Manza is ugly compared to DZire?
I agree that Manza does not have great looks compared to other sedans around.
worse than that Hammer Head, he said, "Manza is the ugliest Sedan in India"
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Old 19th November 2010, 23:20   #270
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Originally Posted by Ricky_3007 View Post
Guys ! Guys! Guys!

I got my Dezire VDI day before yestrday. Extemely Pleased!! and Happy. This Poll helped me a lot while making my decision although it has favorism towards Manza. I have a close friend and i saw him fighting with TATAs for continous issues from the very point of time when he took the delivery. He wrote to all higher - ups in TATA for all the isues he faced but the issue could not get sorted out. I had considered Manza also while making the decision alsong with Fiat Linea, Hundai Verna. Anyways its everybody's own decision but I took the decision on Test Drive of TATA Manza- Dezire , checking up with all close friends who have Dezire , Linea and also the above famous Manza.

I booked this car on 6th June and the car was ready at the 31st of August but I took the delivery on very auspicious day of Ganesh Chaturthi.

Tarkesh
Congratulations on your Dzire.

But about your friends issue with TATA, is a bit way too exagerated. similar would have been your case with Maruti's if you were to have faced issues. I lost a fighting battle with one of the M.A S S here, and very happy with TATA's.

So things varies, you cannot call peoples decision as favourism.
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