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Old 19th September 2005, 17:35   #1
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Question 7L budget car for my dad

Hi fellas

Well, my dad back in my native town in Punjab is going to go in for a new car. Currently he has a 2001 Santro. The budget is approx 7 lakhs. Average driving would be around 900 - 1000 kms a month. He is a very sedate driver who rather enjoys driving at a consistent pleasurable speed, rather than throw the car around and keep pushing the car to its limits. Most of the driving would be within city limits except a 150 kms trip to Chandigarh once a month or a 500 kms trip to Delhi once in two months or so.

Firstly, Baleno was ruled out coz of its lack of creature comforts. Plus, mom ruled it out coz of its exterior as well as interior looks. Well, baleno was considered in the first place on my initial insistence only but i backed off when i realised that its not me who would be driving this car.

Accent CRDI was considered but then, its still a diesel and the inevitable rattles etc will eventually creep in.

Mileage was also a major consideration. So optra was ruled out.

As of now, the needle is pointing towards the NHC. It is rumored to have a bit of a harsh ride but i heard that thats easily taken care of by dropping the tyre pressure just a wee bit. It has excellent mileage for a car of its size. It has nice interiors. Mainly, mileage and interiors are the main reasons this car is in the front as of now.

So, what do you all think?

Regards
Amitoj
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Old 19th September 2005, 17:36   #2
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Well given all the inputs, only the Cheverlet Optra Royale comes to my mind... but i doubt its gonna cost less than 7..
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Old 19th September 2005, 17:37   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dceite
Well given all the inputs, only the Cheverlet Optra Royale comes to my mind... but i doubt its gonna cost less than 7..
well, he has very reluctantly stretched his budget to 7 L from 6L... so i dont think Optra Royale would be a viable option...
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Old 19th September 2005, 17:39   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amitoj
Accent CRDI was considered but then, its still a diesel and the inevitable rattles etc will eventually creep in.
Accent CRDi would be an excellent choice. Check out older CRDis for rattles - its unlikely that you will find any.
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Old 19th September 2005, 17:45   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid
Accent CRDi would be an excellent choice. Check out older CRDis for rattles - its unlikely that you will find any.
hehe, you wont believe this! Yesterday they called a Hyundai guy over to ask him about accent crdi. That dude told them that their monthly running is too less to go for a diesel!!!! I mean, this is a crdi we are talking about here!

The reason the budget was stretched to 7L initially was to bring accent crdi into consideration. But then this brought NHC also into the equation...

Ab kya karein???
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Old 19th September 2005, 17:48   #6
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7 lakhs? Not game for a diesel? NHC. Definitely want a Diesel? Then the Accent CRDI is the best bet I think. VFM, and thinking of investing the left over cash in something? Indigo babieeeee ... *LOL*
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Old 19th September 2005, 17:51   #7
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I realise that Baleno does not make your list...still posting a writeup I did sometime ago....maybe points reg CrDI and NHC will help

I test drove Optra, NHC, Baleno, Ikon and Acent extensively over the last month when I was out in the market looking for a car...

1. NHC :
Pros :
1. Good FE
2. Nice (Debatable) looks
3. Nice interior space..veru space efficient design
4. BEST resale value (at least perceived to be)
Cons
1. Harsh ride..more than wanted "feel" of the road
2. I drove two test cars....both had developed rattles that surfaced when driven over slightly rough cement road.
3. Three abreast was a bit uncomfortable in the rear seat
4. Arrogant salesman...take it or leave it attitude....only one dealership in whole AP so dont know what ASS will be ???
5. Pathetic (REALLY PATHETIC) Power output...if you want to show off...will certainly be disappointed in terms of performance...
6. Pathetic handling and HUGE body roll

Optra :
Pros :
1. Best ride
2. Pickup better than NHC
3. Nice interiors though NHC GXI was livlier then the Bse Optra
4. Attentive sales team

Cons
1. Bad FE (Most friends talk about single digit mileage in low traffic conditions and 13 on highway)
2. ASS no too many dealers around anyway
3. The car I drove had the hand brake indicator always on was told it was a loose connection (electrical probs in a 2K old car??)
4. AC does not cool as fast of there are 5 on board..takes its own sweet time and you cannot feel chill even after 20 mins of driving (with 5 on board)


Accent
Pros
1. Reliable car
2. MOST Rattle Free (all the accents I have with my friends have been completely rattle free even after 4 years of driving)
3. Reasonable resale value
4. Smooth ride

Cons
1. Little Power in 1.5...reasonable power in 1.6
2. 6 footers (me) cannot sit on rear seat...head touches the roof unless you sit in a courched position
3. Less powerful (both the 1.5 and 1.6...in fact the more powerful "tornado" 1.6 is 4 sec slower in 0-140K run compared to Baleno..according to An autocar india comparison study)
4. quite a bit of body roll...note very exciting to drive
5. Not very high FE...

Ikon
Pros
1. Josh m/C...top trump in part throttle responses
2. Best Handling and low body roll
3. Good spacous rear seat.

Cons
1. Looks dated to me at least
2. Unreliable...many friends have suffered one problem or the other
3. Poor FE
4. Unrefined...too much road noise filters through
5. No tilt steering etc

Baleno :

Pros :
1. BEST Pickup of all the cars discussed...only car to do 100KMPH in second gear
2. Good FE...a study (cant remember ODrive or ACI) in 2004 reprted 13.2 KMPL avg by baleno owners...not in their test ride
3. Best Engine...very torquey and very revv happy
4. Reasonable (less compared to NHC / Optra) Interior space..still three abreast easier then NHC probably due to a larger seat?? (Width Baleno 1690 mm vs NHC 1690 mm..still Baleno seat feels wider)
5. Excellant ride..second only to Optra and possibly sismilar to accent.
6. Best A/C...even with 5 onboard in peak summer..you dont need a sunfilm and car cools in a minute..
Cons
1. Feels light
2. Design not to everyone's liking...(though Black Balenos with alloys and wide tyres look terrific to me...in fact better than a Black NHC to me)
3. Dull interiors...not a patch on what City / Optra Offers you...
4. Resale may be poor compared to NHC/Accent though may be better than Ikon and not sure about resale of optra with 8.5 KMPL and Gas at Rs 47/litre


so I bought a black Baleno as It was cheaper on the wallet too..especially the LXI Variant...fitted it with bigger alloy and wider tyres and saw it metamorph in a real good looking car that is also a respectable handler.....



Let get some numbers cracking...you can find an interesting comparo in http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/showth...eno+nhc+accent (Calculated:Diesel versus Petrol. Baleno /NHC/ Accent Crdi)


We will take cars of similar size, equipment, and comparable quality / comfort levels here...so only contenders are is Accent Crdi and Maybe New Honda City and the Baleno...at least in terms of size and Room, Ikon and Petra are left wanting and hence not part of the comparo (feel free to add you points to this...it is just a discussion..not war )

You save around Rs 1.4 / km....in a comparable diesel vehicle... (assumptions Baleno 12.4 kmpl => 3.7 Rs/km...Accent Crdi=> 14.5 kmpl :=> 2.3 Rs/km...

all mileage and other figures are from ACI..and mileage is taken as average of city and highway....(City+highway)/2

@40 km per day => save Rs 1.4 *40 = Rs 56 / day and Rs 20440 per annum..

Assume you incur Rs 2 K more per annum in diesel service...and the savings are Rs 18400 per annum....add another Rs 5000 per annum more for insuring the more expensive crdi car.....and the savings are Rs 13400 per annum.

considering the price differential between an Accent Crdi and an Baleno... => Rs 8 lacs (guess) and Baleno (Rs 5.75 lakhs is what trident paid) = Rs 2.25 lakhs....

Assumking you had only Rs 5.75 lakhs with you .....If you took a loan of extra Rs 2.25 lakh @ 9% to buy the Crdi.(remember most of the personal loans are @11% or above...we are being conservative here by assuming 9%)..you will NEVER repay the loan with the savings you incur....and mind you..you may not want to keep the Crdi that long...!!

To put things in perspective, you require savings of Rs 50000 per annum to square off this Rs 2.25 lakh loan in 6 years

Resale is another question altogether....and was not considered in the above analysis...however, in my view... you will not get Rs 2.56 lakh more compared to a Baleno when you sell the Accent Crdi after 4 years. (the 2.25 lakh rs loan will have increased to Rs 2.56 lakh only as the rs 13400 per annum you save is patently insufficient to fulfil the EMI of Rs 2.25 lakh loan)...so you need to get a min of Rs 2.56 lakh more in resale after 4 years compared to the Baleno in the resale...for your purchase to make economic sense in the short term...

So even with resale considered....it tilts the scale towards Baleno....

finally..you may say that you will use your own money and not borrow...I would say that if it does not make sense to buy @ a loan of 9% only ...then....it does not make sense to buy at all since you can also put your own money in investments that earn more than 9% Pa...(most of the mutual funds are giving 20% pa + returns over 5 years) so there is an opportunity cost you wil incur anyway...

If you like performance..while CRDi is good...Baleno is better in a drag and top whack (0-100 11.1 sec versus 13.7 for crdi) (Top speed 185 kmph versus 165 kmph)..

Please also remember that a diesel service is more expensive...so are the parts and the CRDi does make a racket in the morning start....though it smoothens down once warmed up

If you buy the Baleno, you get performance, low capital investments, overall savings over years and a very SILENT drive...as opposed to incessant diesel clatter in Crdi that you will want to avoid if you are the type who sometimes likes to drive with his windows rolled down...

Of course it is a different story altogether if you are doing 120 km per day...theh crdi may start making sense..

Now
lets talk about New Honda City

Baleno @ Rs 3.7 / km
NHC @ Rs 3.2 / KM ( assuming 13.7 kmpl for NHC) ..by ACI (16.6 highway and 10.9 city)

@ 40 km / day :=> Rs 20 / Day and Rs 7300 / year. Additional Rs 2000 for Insurance and Savings :=> Rs 5300 / year

Cost differential as far as I know is Rs 1.3 lakh in hyd (NHC 6.63 lakhs Ex showroom with Rs 20000 accessories and Baleno 5.15 lakh...after all cash discounts..).

you will take a 1.3 lakh Rs loan...for Buying NHC over Baleno...

interest for Rs 1.3 lakh @ 9% is Rs 11700 / annum...Savings are Rs 5400 / annum

you never pay back the loan...so Baleno is cheaper...

Talking of Resale...if you keep paying Rs 5400 / annum towards this 1.3 lakh loan every year...it will grow to Rs 1.59 lakh after 4 years...so you will need to get Rs 1.6 lakh more after 4 years in resale compared to Baleno to just break even with NHC....Possible...Maybe...Maybe not ??

So we have realised that we do not save money net net even if we buy an NHC....

Talking of cars per se.... NHC has marginally more leg space and better interiors..(though NHC interior color too remains a sad grey in the exi model under consideration). On the other hand...it feels like a n oversize Maruti 800 as far as performance and ride comfort go.... I for one..dont like the looks very much too. Maybe it has a better crash test rating??? does anyone know that???
On the other hand, Baleno wins hands down in Performance, Ride Comfort and Handling...
So as far as cars per se go...it is a pretty even contest...some hate the looks of a Baleno...but I love it compared to the NHC...even the short rear deck with a spoiler looks quite racy to me...but then I own one and maybe the bias has set in

Last edited by Buffetfan : 19th September 2005 at 18:00.
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Old 19th September 2005, 17:56   #8
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hey amitoj,
have to thought about the petra???
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Old 19th September 2005, 17:57   #9
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Thanks buffetfan, but i had already sent the link to this discussion to my dad. This did tilt the scales towards baleno but then baleno was rejected coz of its looks and interiors (which is a matter of personal opinion, of course). So this brought NHC into consideration. now that removes the 2.25 lakh price difference that comes between baleno and accent crdi, giving accent the edge over NHC as far as numbers are concerned, right?

hehe avinash, fiat's service is non existent where my dad lives...

Last edited by amitoj : 19th September 2005 at 17:59.
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Old 19th September 2005, 17:58   #10
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What about the Ford Fusion ?
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Old 19th September 2005, 18:04   #11
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Why dont you buy an Accent GLE. (or the New Accent...whatever the 1.5 litre model is called ) ..I mean your father is OK with sedate driving and wants a hassle free car...the Accent is available for around 5.5 lacs I guess....it is very smooth and believe me...THE MOST RATTLE FREE car that I have ever seen...Period...(I have seen a few rattles in the NHCs...test drove two cars)..even 4 year 40 k accents do not have any rattles...Handling is ok but guess NHC do not cut any new ground in handling either...

You can get beige interiors that will liven up the things a bit...the Accent always came with good quality plastics so that is not an issue...

you will again pay close to Rs 2lacs less compared to a NHC.with Beige interiors.....and the car is pretty good...
Performance will be in the same league as the NHC...if not better ...(might be better)

Just check out the rear seat though...your head might touch the roof if you are 6 foot plus...leg room is OK though...

running cost wise and resale as well....it is the cheapest option...the Hyundai service is legendary as well....(I believe they are better than Maruti...who win the CS awards every year

Last edited by Buffetfan : 19th September 2005 at 18:12.
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Old 19th September 2005, 18:12   #12
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GLE would definitely be a good option, whan you already have a 7 L budget, why not check the GVS/GLS im not sure which the top end is (not the VIVA).. try them out, but if your father is not too concerned about a 100 CC extra , then the GLE should do
ak
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Old 19th September 2005, 18:16   #13
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hmm... hey buffetfan, you are giving a lot of food for thought.. thanks for that.
Well, if he has to go for an accent, i'd rather he goes for a CRDI, if you all think it wont have any rattles etc 2, 3 or 4 years down the line.
Whats the FE of a petrol accent?

The main concerns for him are FE, reliability and safety.

@Mohit : He wants a proper car. Fusion is a i-dont-know-wot... plus, does Fusion give an FE comparable to NHC?

Regards
Amitoj

Last edited by amitoj : 19th September 2005 at 18:19.
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Old 19th September 2005, 18:21   #14
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I read i another thread that a new look Baleno is coming soon so I think you can wait till its launch.
Otherwise Accent is the best buy for your father.
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Old 19th September 2005, 18:28   #15
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I would say that Accent Crdi and GLE do not have much difference in Road Presence or Status...you get PS/PW / Tilt steering etc in all models nowadays

Just put in the numbers together...Replace Baleno by Accent GLE in my calculaiton and you will realise that with a Crdi compareed to an Accent 1.5... you will never break even evevn if you drive 1500 km / month...

and yes..the CRdi is good but I guess the 0-100 timings are comparable....a friend of mine claims to have touoched 170 in his petrol accent 1.5 on the expressway...so the top whack is also OK.the CrDI has more torque..hence better in gear timings... but then also makes more noise...

If his rnning is high..then the CrDi makes sense..with a 1000 km running...it wont save you any money...

BTW,
another friend of mine has a CrDI...and I can tell you three things

1. Accleration is same as the Petrol car....maybe even faster ingear...but the car needs to shift to 4th to touch 100...
2. Some Vibration seeps through the chasis....you can never forget it is a diesel unless you keep the AC on...
3. Road rumble is more pronounced (dont know if this is because of the heavy diesel engine)...seemed a bit like rattle....but I guess it was road rumble and not rattle....
4. FE is very good...he claims 17 but mostly does highway driving....

Last edited by Buffetfan : 19th September 2005 at 18:40.
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