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Old 6th May 2010, 15:07   #61
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Originally Posted by RacingStripes View Post
IMO for your requirements, the SX4 is an absolute no no. It is too tall to be a sporty handler.
So you mean all tall cars/SUVs are bad in handling - to be precise they dont handle - sportingly ? Guys..lets have some sensible logic on what we say.


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Originally Posted by aparth View Post
* Great performance - Should be fun to drive!
* Should have all the safety features - ABS, Airbags, etc.
* Good looks.
* Mod friendly, as i don't intend to keep my car stock for a very long time.

I plan to keep the car for around 3 to 4 years.

And also I've heard that the new Fiesta is coming soon, so does it make sense to go for the Fiesta right now?

Maintenance costs and mileage is not an issue for me as my monthly running will be only around 500 kilometres.
Parth.
Parth - Looking to your requirement above, can we go bit by bit -

You need a great performer, what exactly does it mean to you ? Is it the 0-100 acceleration, is it the composition at certain speed ranges, is it ride quality and handling or is it reliability ? A lot depends on what you exactly want here.

2. Safety features - available in all the 3 cars on black & white. What is important is whether they apply as and when required : life or death question - huh ?

3. Good Looks - Pretty subjective. This question should be answered by YOU and all those concerned on the buying/usage of the car. You will just go haywired here if you look for answers from other members.

4. Mod Friendly - Again question comes whether you mean adding accessories and fancy stuffs to the car or do some real modifications to the original design. To cite an example, when i was evaluating, I was informed by a ford dealer that, even if i change the tyre to a different brand with the same size this would void warranty. I know this is false but point is we can have an idea how they might crib on honoring their warranty clauses.

5. You plan to change the car in 3/4 years time or you have an intention of keeping the car for at least 3/4 years - Please note that both are wide apart in inference.

6. New Fiesta is on the way - Thats one constant for every car and there is no end to it. You need to decide within the best available options, unless something is already scheduled to arrive by a certain date - Officially. Still then e.g. Toyota Etios might also be there in the sub 8 lakhs. Confused ?

7. Maintenance cost still cater to some extent irrepsective of your running, e.g. scheduled service costs. Whereas SX4 calls for a 10K km/ 1 year service, City calls for a service in 5K km(so much for the reliability and maintenance free car) and Linea calls for every 15K km.

OK so much of questions. Coming to my response, I have driven all the 3 cars quite extensively (I mean lot of drivings in short period rather than a prolonged experience). I will put my opinion in terms of derived values. At the end of the day decision is yours.

Resale Value - Go for ANHC or SX4 if resale is very important. Both are very good at resale. (Coming back to your 3/4 years of ownership, what exactly do you mean)

Ride Comfort and driveability - Nothing can beat Fiesta S (with the 4.9 cornering radius) Followed by ANHC then SX4. But to my knowledge and research from T-BHP the low seating of ANHC creates back pain in long run. SX4 is tall boy design.

Somebody has mention on the body roll of SX4, which is simply untrue. That much of body roll will be there in any car having stiffer suspension. Without any exaggeration, I can confidently say on a good road, with SX4 you simply feel like gliding. Of course not with the stock JK tyres.

The Zooooooom Effect - SX4 VVT beats the other 2, in reality - at least for me. I did not notice any effect of the extra 8 or 10 BHP of ANHC vs SX4.

Space - Both SX4 and ANHC are pretty good in this area.

Build quality - Both SX4 and ANHC are at par in reality. However, ANHC gives a richer build quality feel because of the fit and finish. In fact the build quality has deteriorated vs the NHC and OHC. Interior Plastics do look richer but lifeless. Fiesta S stands ahead in terms of build quality.

Engine - ANHC ? yes. But the SX4 VVT is equally refined.

Comfort - subjective, SX4 rear seat comfort beats the other 2. Whereas driver seat comfort is best in Fiesta S.

VFM - Any doubt about SX4 ?

A** (means peace of mind) - Proven time and again - Maruti. Let me put my experience here, why i did not go for Fiesta S ( or a diesel SXi) simply because I felt that those Ford guys dont seem to be very inetrested to sell their cars. ( after som any calls and mails, i did not get any proactiveness from their side). Imagine what would be the after sales.

Few more points :

1. SX4 VVT will continue to be as it is as Maruti has no plan (except a diesel and may be a hatch).
2. Fiesta New version looks much better compared to the existing one.
3. GC of ANHC has been a consistent issue.
4. TODAY, honda city does not have that IMAGE value with so many bigger brands playing in india.

Overally ANHC is a good car comapred to SX4 BUT the premium is not justified.

Good Luck in your decision.
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Old 6th May 2010, 16:09   #62
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My replies are written in bold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalDragon View Post
So you mean all tall cars/SUVs are bad in handling - to be precise they dont handle - sportingly ? Guys..lets have some sensible logic on what we say.




Parth - Looking to your requirement above, can we go bit by bit -

You need a great performer, what exactly does it mean to you ? Is it the 0-100 acceleration, is it the composition at certain speed ranges, is it ride quality and handling or is it reliability ? A lot depends on what you exactly want here.

By performance I mean that the car should be fast in real life conditions and the in gear acceleration should be good.

2. Safety features - available in all the 3 cars on black & white. What is important is whether they apply as and when required : life or death question - huh ?

3. Good Looks - Pretty subjective. This question should be answered by YOU and all those concerned on the buying/usage of the car. You will just go haywired here if you look for answers from other members.

I think the Fiesta 1.6S is the prettiest of the three. I hate the rear ends of both, the SX4 and ANHC.

4. Mod Friendly - Again question comes whether you mean adding accessories and fancy stuffs to the car or do some real modifications to the original design. To cite an example, when i was evaluating, I was informed by a ford dealer that, even if i change the tyre to a different brand with the same size this would void warranty. I know this is false but point is we can have an idea how they might crib on honoring their warranty clauses.

By mod friendly I mean that aftermarket parts should easily be available for the car. By modding, I mean I'm going to upgrade the tires with aftermarket rims, I'm going to upgrade the ICE, I'm going to upgrade the interior by leather, etc and I'm going to add some performance mods as well, such as a FFE, Air intake, stiffer suspension, maybe a remap as well.

5. You plan to change the car in 3/4 years time or you have an intention of keeping the car for at least 3/4 years - Please note that both are wide apart in inference.

I plan to change the car in maximum 4 years.

6. New Fiesta is on the way - Thats one constant for every car and there is no end to it. You need to decide within the best available options, unless something is already scheduled to arrive by a certain date - Officially. Still then e.g. Toyota Etios might also be there in the sub 8 lakhs. Confused ?

7. Maintenance cost still cater to some extent irrepsective of your running, e.g. scheduled service costs. Whereas SX4 calls for a 10K km/ 1 year service, City calls for a service in 5K km(so much for the reliability and maintenance free car) and Linea calls for every 15K km.

I don't think any of these three cars are expensive to maintain so maintenance costs is not much of an issue, but I think ANHC's and Fiesta's accidental parts are more expensive than SX4's parts, but it's not a big thing to worry about.


OK so much of questions. Coming to my response, I have driven all the 3 cars quite extensively (I mean lot of drivings in short period rather than a prolonged experience). I will put my opinion in terms of derived values. At the end of the day decision is yours.

Resale Value - Go for ANHC or SX4 if resale is very important. Both are very good at resale. (Coming back to your 3/4 years of ownership, what exactly do you mean)

Ride Comfort and driveability - Nothing can beat Fiesta S (with the 4.9 cornering radius) Followed by ANHC then SX4. But to my knowledge and research from T-BHP the low seating of ANHC creates back pain in long run. SX4 is tall boy design.

The car will mostly be driven alone by me, so backseat comfort has not been taken into consideration. The backsteat comfort of both the cars, SX4 and Anhc, is good but I found ANHC to be more spacious.

Somebody has mention on the body roll of SX4, which is simply untrue. That much of body roll will be there in any car having stiffer suspension. Without any exaggeration, I can confidently say on a good road, with SX4 you simply feel like gliding. Of course not with the stock JK tyres.

I agree with you, I actually found the SX4 to be a pretty decent handler. To be honest, it really exceeded my expectations in terms of handling.

The Zooooooom Effect - SX4 VVT beats the other 2, in reality - at least for me. I did not notice any effect of the extra 8 or 10 BHP of ANHC vs SX4.

I've only TD'ed the SX4 AT because MT is not available for TD anywhere. And the ANHC felt more powerful as compared to the SX4 AT, which is probably due to the crappy 4 speed gearbox which seemed to be confused all the time. But a friend of mine and an SX4 MT owner told me that the SX4 MT feels 50% more powerful than the SX4 AT.

Space - Both SX4 and ANHC are pretty good in this area.


Build quality - Both SX4 and ANHC are at par in reality. However, ANHC gives a richer build quality feel because of the fit and finish. In fact the build quality has deteriorated vs the NHC and OHC. Interior Plastics do look richer but lifeless. Fiesta S stands ahead in terms of build quality.

I agree, Fiesta feels way more solid of the three. I personally like the ANHC's interiors more than the SX4 but the A/C knobs in the ANHC remind me of Alto's A/C knobs, whereas I really find the SX4's Climate control knobs pretty classy. But overall, I like the ANHC's interiors better.

Engine - ANHC ? yes. But the SX4 VVT is equally refined.

Comfort - subjective, SX4 rear seat comfort beats the other 2. Whereas driver seat comfort is best in Fiesta S.

VFM - Any doubt about SX4 ?

Fiesta 1.6S is pretty VFM as well.

A** (means peace of mind) - Proven time and again - Maruti. Let me put my experience here, why i did not go for Fiesta S ( or a diesel SXi) simply because I felt that those Ford guys dont seem to be very inetrested to sell their cars. ( after som any calls and mails, i did not get any proactiveness from their side). Imagine what would be the after sales.

I'm satisfied with Honda's A.S.S as I already own two Honda's, but yes they are definitely not as good as Maruti's A.S.S

Few more points :

1. SX4 VVT will continue to be as it is as Maruti has no plan (except a diesel and may be a hatch).
2. Fiesta New version looks much better compared to the existing one.
3. GC of ANHC has been a consistent issue.
4. TODAY, honda city does not have that IMAGE value with so many bigger brands playing in india.

I feel that Honda does have more image value than Maruti as of now, but things might change later due to the competition

Overally ANHC is a good car comapred to SX4 BUT the premium is not justified.

Good Luck in your decision.
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Old 6th May 2010, 18:33   #63
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Default Resale dilemma

Hey all,

This agrument about ANHC having a better resale value seems irrelevant considering the fact that if one had to invest the 2 lac saving (if buying a Fiesta) even in a risk free instrument, you will have enough at the end of 3-4 years to make up for the difference in the respective resale values!

aparth: I personally own a Feista 1.6 zxi and it is a joy to drive....whether in the city or on the highways. The sense of security (due to the heaviness of the car/steering response) is far superior to what i have felt in an ANHC (purely my personal opinion)
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Old 6th May 2010, 19:18   #64
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I'd recommend the Fiesta 1.6 , going by your needs. I am a happy customer for the past 3+ years. Else the SX4--- both are nearly 2 lacs cheaper than the ANHC.

Though the SX4 has a wider rear seat, I found my head almost grazing the roof, and I am just 5' 10" tall---I would not be comfortable in a long journey for sure, if seated at the rear.

I heard Maruti has got rid of the back seat arm rest hump in the SX4, but I have not seen one so far. Other issues like low FE and lack of illumination on the power window buttons have been sorted out, I hope.
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Old 6th May 2010, 19:50   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WindRide View Post
Visual appeal is highly personal, and opinions differ.

I feel ANHC's grill is of an old man smiling after a visit to the dentist and having a grill put on his teeth.

Wifey says the bonnet looks like a rolled out chappati dough.

No offence to any owners here.

This is a nice debate, and it will make sense sticking to technicalities.




Yes looks are subject to personal tastes.
To be frank the ANHC (am repeating this) looks like a ''WANNABE-THAI MUSCLE CAR" went to bed with a "WANNABE BIMMER".



No offense meant to any ANHC users, like I said looks are subjective to tastes and to be frank I hate my baleno's rear and yet I bought it. Similarly, ANHC is a great car in quite a few areas but still going by thread starter's requirements I think FiestaS seems a better bet. And like I said the 2L saved can be best utilized for the mod jobs he has in mind.



Regards.
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Old 7th May 2010, 10:28   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aparth
By performance I mean that the car should be fast in real life conditions and the in gear acceleration should be good.

None of the 3 cars have this characteristic for a real meaning, though SX4 scores fair among the 3. You might Look for Cedia or Logan for this particular requirement.

I think the Fiesta 1.6S is the prettiest of the three. I hate the rear ends of both, the SX4 and ANHC.

Purely personal. I like ANHC's look. Fiesta does not give the feel of a Sedan being smallest of the 3.

By mod friendly I mean that aftermarket parts should easily be available for the car. By modding, I mean I'm going to upgrade the tires with aftermarket rims, I'm going to upgrade the ICE, I'm going to upgrade the interior by leather, etc and I'm going to add some performance mods as well, such as a FFE, Air intake, stiffer suspension, maybe a remap as well.

Accessories is no issues for any car. However, Modifying, like FFE etc. voids warranty in the case of all. Maruti is slightly lenient. In any case this could be managed if you have a solid rapport with the service people of any company.

I don't think any of these three cars are expensive to maintain so maintenance costs is not much of an issue, but I think ANHC's and Fiesta's accidental parts are more expensive than SX4's parts, but it's not a big thing to worry about.

You are right.

The car will mostly be driven alone by me, so backseat comfort has not been taken into consideration. The backsteat comfort of both the cars, SX4 and Anhc, is good but I found ANHC to be more spacious.

Overall Length : SX4 - 4490, City - 4420
Overall Width : SX4 - 1735, City - 1695

I agree with you, I actually found the SX4 to be a pretty decent handler. To be honest, it really exceeded my expectations in terms of handling.

It can only be felt by driving the SX4. Word of mouth influences a lot in indian car buying scene.

I've only TD'ed the SX4 AT because MT is not available for TD anywhere. And the ANHC felt more powerful as compared to the SX4 AT, which is probably due to the crappy 4 speed gearbox which seemed to be confused all the time. But a friend of mine and an SX4 MT owner told me that the SX4 MT feels 50% more powerful than the SX4 AT.

I really cannot comment on AT as I have not tried it at all.

I agree, Fiesta feels way more solid of the three. I personally like the ANHC's interiors more than the SX4 but the A/C knobs in the ANHC remind me of Alto's A/C knobs, whereas I really find the SX4's Climate control knobs pretty classy. But overall, I like the ANHC's interiors better.

As I have already mentioned, the ANHC look & Feel and Fit & finish is much better than SX4.

Fiesta 1.6S is pretty VFM as well.

Subjective. IMHO if at all Fiesta, Fiesta ZXi Leather is the most VFM.

I'm satisfied with Honda's A.S.S as I already own two Honda's, but yes they are definitely not as good as Maruti's A.S.S.

And How about Ford ? They are improving, but far to go.

I feel that Honda does have more image value than Maruti as of now, but things might change later due to the competition.

Compared to Maruti, I agree, Yes. But when we talk about image, we dont normally talk..hey I have Honda and not Maruti. Its the overall car scenario in India about Image.

I suggest you take even more rounds of TD's of all the 3 cars, in varied road conditions, and then decide. IMHO Honda does not demand the premium they are asking, baring the image part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vnabhi View Post
Though the SX4 has a wider rear seat, I found my head almost grazing the roof, and I am just 5' 10" tall---I would not be comfortable in a long journey for sure, if seated at the rear.

I totally disagree on this point. SX4 has one of the biggest head rooms in the segment. The overall height of both the cars has a massive 10 cm difference.

I heard Maruti has got rid of the back seat arm rest hump in the SX4, but I have not seen one so far. Other issues like low FE and lack of illumination on the power window buttons have been sorted out, I hope.
It was not the arm rest hump, but it was a hump on the middle portion of the seat itself, which is not there now. In fact the rear seat is much more comfortable now. FE has improved slightly. With 80 as an average and with quite spirited driving, I get 10.5 in Bangalore B2B. Illumination is only there in the auto switch of the power window button. However in fiesta it is there in all the buttons. Smart people.

Last edited by DigitalDragon : 7th May 2010 at 10:29.
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Old 7th May 2010, 10:46   #67
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On the looks front, I find the ANHC far better than the NHC. I do like its looks as much as the Fiesta's.

However, I don't like the crossover looks of the SX4, but one with a body kit and side skirts looks ok. But side skirts negate the key advantage of higher GC-----so as the saying goes, 'to each his own'.

As regards the rear seat of the SX4- it is not the overall height of the car that matters, but the positioning of the rear seats. In the SX4, the rear seats are placed a bit higher than the front ones, thereby limiting head room. I sat in one when it was launched and that is what I distinctly recall.

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Old 21st May 2010, 11:32   #68
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Guys,
I have increased my budget to 15 lakhs and now I'm considering Civic V MT, Laura and Cruze. I've td'ed the Civic, but the test drive for Laura 1.8 doesnt seem to be available with any dealer..
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Old 21st May 2010, 12:35   #69
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Any specific reason why you want to go with a (Diesel) Cruze?High running perhaps?The Cruze has a powerful engine and is also quite a looker.If its high mileage you're looking at, the cruze should be a no-brainer.

If its Fun-to-Drive you're looking at, look no further than the laura tsi.For the price at which it comes, nothing within 25 lakhs comes close to the FTD factor it offers. Throw in 16 inchers and you'll have a hard time wiping off that grin on your face everytime you rip it with all those 160 german horses(Yeah..I know Skoda's Czech, but its been brought up, literally, in a German household).Its one helluva machine.However, going in for a Skoda is a personal choice not many would prefer to take, what with their shoddy A.S.S.I personally dunno how Skoda service is in Delhi.I for one mustered the courage to go in with a used vRS n I'm pretty happy with my choice(touch wood).

The Civic is more of an all-round package when you compare it to the Skoda.Its everything that you'd expect of a Honda product.Good looks, Good performance, top-notch reliability, brilliant resale...blah blah.But the 133 ps motor ain't a patch on the 160ps motor of the Laura.Period.

Last edited by octane1002 : 21st May 2010 at 12:43.
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Old 21st May 2010, 15:10   #70
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Any specific reason for not considering Toyota Corolla Altis ? With all the features being almost same, I feel Toyota body is slightly tougher than Civic Body.
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Old 21st May 2010, 15:37   #71
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Dont look any further than the Fiesta 1.6S. The best drivers car under 10 lakhs and even more if you take into equation the Civic and the Altis. There is something in that car that works for me, especially the rorty 1.6 litre engine which loves to rev and makes nice accompanying sound as well. The 1.6S becomes an extension of you and give it some stick and it will devour most cars on the road, straight or twisting.
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Old 21st May 2010, 23:09   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aparth View Post
Guys,
I have increased my budget to 15 lakhs and now I'm considering Civic V MT, Laura and Cruze. I've td'ed the Civic, but the test drive for Laura 1.8 doesnt seem to be available with any dealer..
Awesome! I wish I could increase my budget by 50% as well.

If your initial 4 requirements are still the same, the Laura ticks all the boxes except for the mod factor where Civic wins hands down. But if I were you, I would buy the Laura ONLY if it came with a 4 year extended warranty. Just take a look at the cost of a replacement turbo to see what I mean. I would recommend you buy the Civic and mod it so that it makes as much power and handles as well as the Laura.
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Old 22nd May 2010, 12:42   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalDragon View Post
Any specific reason for not considering Toyota Corolla Altis ? With all the features being almost same, I feel Toyota body is slightly tougher than Civic Body.
I forgot to add the Altis to my list by mistake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilead View Post
Awesome! I wish I could increase my budget by 50% as well.

If your initial 4 requirements are still the same, the Laura ticks all the boxes except for the mod factor where Civic wins hands down. But if I were you, I would buy the Laura ONLY if it came with a 4 year extended warranty. Just take a look at the cost of a replacement turbo to see what I mean. I would recommend you buy the Civic and mod it so that it makes as much power and handles as well as the Laura.
I forgot to mention.. I'm not going to be modding the car anymore. I had an option that I could either buy a car in a lower segment and mod it or I could buy a car from a higher segment and leave it stock. So, I chose the latter one..

Last edited by aparth : 22nd May 2010 at 12:43.
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Old 22nd May 2010, 18:39   #74
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Default Need help - SX4 vs. i20??

Guys...need some help in choosing b/n the SX4 and the i20 (somehow don't like the edges on the City ). I have a Ford Ikon currently but need a new car as I'm now having some issues getting in/out of the car and on longer drives (I'm 6'6")...and primary selection criteria are:

1. Enables easy city driving (have a Fusion that can be used for highway drives) with ease of parking, etc
2. Reasonable mileage...going for petrol coz my usual travel is <20Km / day
3. Peppy image
4. Good height...of course...
5. Features..Electric ORVMs, Integrated audio, ABS, Airbags, etc...
6. Budget of sub 10 Lakhs (as I'm not selling my 1.6 Zxi...it's just too awesome to let go at a price of ~1.5L or so)

Took TDs of both today and IMO:

SX4 - response similar to Fusion, great space, huge boot, neat features...humongous tyres give an increased level of comfort...priced at 9L post discount

i20 - awesome looks (exterior & interior with the new blue lights) easier manouverability, lower response, good features for sure...not all that peppy..priced at 7L no discount

I realize that these 2 cars are in different segments...but having done helluva lot of research, narrowed it down to them and am now confused..! Somehow, unable to spend close to a Million bucks on a 'Maruti' (NO OFFENCE to Suzuki San, etc...it's just my feeling) in my mind... PLEASE HELP!!!!
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Old 24th May 2010, 09:23   #75
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Question here re the 1.6s - how does the ground clearance compare to the median? I realize that the SX4 rules here, but is the Ford worse than most sedans in the class? Or is it acceptable?
And how does the effective boot size compare to other same size sedans? Decent enough?
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