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Old 25th May 2010, 01:13   #16
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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
What makes you think that Linea is an unreliable car?
I didn't mean that Linea is not reliable. Since the car is to be kept for seven years, I think that its better to go with Toyota than to try luck with Fiat A.S.S.
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Old 25th May 2010, 01:34   #17
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The Cruze would be a good option, If you could stretch your budget a bit.
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Old 25th May 2010, 02:17   #18
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Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
aaah, but the gx is missing alloys, airbags, audio controls on the steering and the MID.
and it is also missing ABS, optitronic gauges, rear parking sensors, Defogger,
as well apart from cosmetic things like chrome handles, grill, chrome beaded side moulding, wood inserts on dash, different trim on seats - compared to the Vx variant.

Akshay - you are correct about the price. The Innova VX was 14.25 lakhs in Hyderabad ( and 14.7 lakhs in Bangalore accroding to the last Autocar I read).


Talking of safety - Lets take a hypothetical case that an Airbag equipped linea and non Airbag equipped Innova collide -I am confused as to which car do I want to be traveling in ?

You have Airbags on one side and 30% lesser deceleration on the other side (Innova being a heavy vehicle, will suffer lesser deceleration and hence the passengers will feel lesser impact).

A lot of passengers pass away in collisions because of the sudden deceleration their bodies face and internal organs get *misaligned* for eg in a strong head on collision your heart will collide with your rib cage as the body may stop suddenly but the heart is still travelling at great speed. So even w/o any outer injury, one can suffer great life threatening internal damage.

My hunch says it will be the Innova!

On the other hand - taking the above argument forward, it is always better to leave the car at home and take the train or Volvo. (and completely kill the joy of motoring in the process).

Last edited by Buffetfan : 25th May 2010 at 02:22.
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Old 25th May 2010, 02:23   #19
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^^ Also do not forget Innova has body on ladder frame chassis unlike the Linea which has a monocoque construction, the safety of the vehicle cannot just be determined by the weight of the car.
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Old 25th May 2010, 07:44   #20
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aaah, but the gx is missing alloys, airbags, audio controls on the steering and the MID.
Aaaah, yes, you are right. OUT goes the INNOVA. Even with year end discounts, I can't pay the price and for my wife she will be very very happy that I alone don't drive an elephant in the city.

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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
The VW Vento and Fiat Linea 1.6MJD are the cars to wait for.

If you cannot wait:

Linea in its current form is a nice car, the only disappointment is the average performance, if you are not among the ones who revv and race all the time the Linea has very good driveability. A visit at Fiat ASC every 15,000kms won't be that painful, trust me i own a Punto i have to rarely deal with Tata Fiat ASC guys because of the long 15k kms service interval and very well engineered car.

Verna This car does not come with Airbags in any variant.

Fiesta again has just average performance and feels outdated, but the Ride, handling and steering is really good. This car is not as spacious as Verna or Honda City. Fiesta does not have a Climate control system.
Agree on linea. Verna diesel higher end maybe even A/T has airbags for sure if I am not wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffetfan View Post
and it is also missing ABS, optitronic gauges, rear parking sensors, Defogger,
as well apart from cosmetic things like chrome handles, grill, chrome beaded side moulding, wood inserts on dash, different trim on seats - compared to the Vx variant.

Akshay - you are correct about the price. The Innova VX was 14.25 lakhs in Hyderabad ( and 14.7 lakhs in Bangalore accroding to the last Autocar I read).


Talking of safety - Lets take a hypothetical case that an Airbag equipped linea and non Airbag equipped Innova collide -I am confused as to which car do I want to be traveling in ?

You have Airbags on one side and 30% lesser deceleration on the other side (Innova being a heavy vehicle, will suffer lesser deceleration and hence the passengers will feel lesser impact).

A lot of passengers pass away in collisions because of the sudden deceleration their bodies face and internal organs get *misaligned* for eg in a strong head on collision your heart will collide with your rib cage as the body may stop suddenly but the heart is still travelling at great speed. So even w/o any outer injury, one can suffer great life threatening internal damage.

My hunch says it will be the Innova!

On the other hand - taking the above argument forward, it is always better to leave the car at home and take the train or Volvo. (and completely kill the joy of motoring in the process).
Agree. Personally this time its gonna be airbags + seatbelt else no car at all. I am not the kinds who'd ignore all safety stuff this time. After all I am buying a different car so that my family should feel safe and comfortable, so it better come with all this.

Also I agree with your comment on Volvo and train. Its going to be these from 2015 and less of actual car honestly. The way I have chosen my investments, is all close to upcoming metro stations which will be commissioned by 2015 at max. I am sure its a pleasure to travel by train given the accuracy in destination reach timings each day without fail (barring few rare cases)

I also agree on bouciness on hyundai cars. I had a terrible ride to bandipur on a friend's santro and the rear seats aren't any worth talking about. For a person like me who has faced a back disc displacement, any bounciness is unwelcome.

Again on the lethargic part, one can't help the 93 bhp 1.3 MJD, but then on the contrary it helps on the mileage part, as well as in taming a swift brute like me, to become more of the father than I am to my kids. Seriously I have lost all senses on the road and the DDIS only makes me want to step on the pedal each time even though I start off like an I-would-drive-sedately-and-hurt-nobody man each day from home.

So I was dreaming the whole of night yesterday thinking hard what I really wanted. I am close to these choices now

1. Used corolla - only thing i will miss here is climate control i guess but price is sweet ~ 6 lacs range
2. Used civic - I expect GTO to point me to some preworshipped civics in Bangalore in the context of reliable people to approach (agree civic is low, but other than that it will be available at ~ 9 lac-ish and I just need to find the right one, since power and pickup are great otherwise)
3. New linea T-Jet or Diesel as per costs and mileage options which need to be pondered about
4. Volkswagen Vento if it beats competition to death in price and features.

So that makes it two used petrol's and two new diesel's.

GTO can you help me on the civic part as to whether I must approach Honda, or check out craigslist and other such sites etc?
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Old 25th May 2010, 07:53   #21
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The Linea suits your needs perfectly.
Get a top end version with all the goodies. On the contrary, you can also opt to wait for the VW Vento, which looks promising.
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Old 25th May 2010, 10:37   #22
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Some more comparo's:

The Linea petrol with all bells and whistles is 827624 OTR Bangalore. The city petrol WITHOUT all bells and whistles starts at 9,58,985 OTR. There is a 131361 bucks of difference. At a cost of 54 bucks a litre of petrol, I get roughly 2433 litres of petrol which even at a mileage of 8 kmpl on Linea gives me ~ 19,500 kilometres of driving before I match the city's input cost.

Arguably the city won't depreciate as much as Linea petrol would perhaps. Also, at the same cost as city WITHOUT bells and whistles, I get a Linea MJD which makes it even more impressive in terms of VFM. Service was, is and will be an issue with FIAT. but that is the real compromise if I go with Linea.

Besides the insurances on these cars are themselves about 25k each year and on a 7 year ownership that comes to 1.75 lacs which itself is humongous! This applies to both cars no doubt.

As of now, Corolla Altis, Innova, seems out of my affordability range. Actually more precisely i want to be practical not just a guy who spends for the heck of it. Given that constraint, there are some old CIVICs and Corollas that make sense for the similar price as above, and similar mileages as above but with greater features though and powerful engines - both 1.8kcc and appropriate bhp's and torques.

City/Civic/Corolla are if at all for reliability for long time to come. Linea one can never say next year what will happen with the car and where I have to run around pillar to post to see whats wrong with my car if at all something goes wrong.

VW Vento is the only hope in such situations.
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Old 25th May 2010, 10:45   #23
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Are you referring to Linea Emotion Pack?
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Old 25th May 2010, 11:00   #24
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Yes, I am referring to the same.
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Old 25th May 2010, 11:04   #25
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1) For diesel's, unfortunately, you dont have much options. Best would be Innova mid range version, but you are keen on ABS/EBD ( I wonder why manufacturers cannot offer ABS/EBD as an option even on lowest model ).

2) If you are really keen on diesel, then Swift Dzire, Mazna and Verna are cars you can consider. If you leave Verna out, the other two cars are succesful so spares and service will be available for longer period.

3) Best if to go in for SX4/City. Although petrol, both have good space, individual strength and weakness. Vadodara Toyota dealer informed that Corolla Altis diesel is coming in 2010 end with 1.6l engine with excellent FE. But I doubt about this date and I doubt it will be less than Rs. 10 lakh. Toyota Innova and Altis reach Rs. 13.5 and Rs. 15.3 lakh respectively OTR Vadodara. None of the two is really VFM deal at that price.

4) Its better not to take chance with Fiat A.S & S. if you are not comfortable.
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Old 25th May 2010, 11:13   #26
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Look for a pre-owned, 2005 facelifted corolla.
It has all the bells and whistles except for bluetooth. It also has superb reliability and good FE.
You can get a bluetooth set after market with the money left over. Try to get a low mileage one for around 7-8L in Bangalore.

It is more comfortable than the Civic, and more reliable than the Linea. Check it out.
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Old 25th May 2010, 11:18   #27
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As of now, Linea Emotion Pack (diesel) seems to be the most suitable car for you. If you are considering a used car, a low run Civic is a good choice.
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Old 25th May 2010, 11:25   #28
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HI GeekSrik,
You were one of the reasons why I became a swift fan. Sad to hear that your parting ways with her. Anyways I have 3 suggestions here.
1) In your first post the features you described are all present in Jazz. Amazing car, bit slow but great on features and Honda Badge, but its hatch if you can bear with.
2) There is one VW Passat someone is selling on carwale.com. Check that out. German engineering never fails to impress.
3) Cedia is also powerful car with all features you want that is also present in carwale.com:
http://www.carwale.com/used/search.a...t=2&ps=40&pn=3

Last edited by Anandg : 25th May 2010 at 11:30. Reason: more information
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Old 25th May 2010, 11:40   #29
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Originally Posted by GeekSrik View Post
After three years of the Swift VDI (Swift VDi ownership: A Running report), I am planning to move into sedan category. As is customary, I am putting down my needs and wants, and want both newbies and veterans to comment on what is best for me. So read on.

Its best if I say what made me change course from continuing with Swift before I dwell further, so that one can understand why the sudden need. I live in Bangalore used to drive 40km daily to work (back and forth) and partly signal laden and partly signal free roads of this distance. After a change in job, I drive about 5-6km one way to work now. Some weekends longer within city, and say once in six odd months a longer trip of anywhere between 150-200km one way.

Though the swift did not let me down in terms of engine, here is what I sorely missed after seeing newer cars and after the long drives put forth the same:

The master reason why I am changing my car is because it rattles. It rattles on windows, doors, dashboard, in my head, everywhere.
  • climate control - though A/C was great in yesteryears, i have a problem with just A/c, me and my wife sneeze a lot if the temperature is not properly maintained. So there is now a need for precise cabin temperature
  • defogger - its a pity that for a 6-lac car i did not have this feature, and when it rains, no matter what all people have suggested and what all I have tried as well, the windows fog up horribly to an extent that I cant see anything to my sides. With hurricanes blowing in Bangalore, its time for a proper defogger
  • good visibility on side windows - the swift is horrible at this and I have faced problems umpteen number of times where I felt this could have been a lot lot better.
  • more than reasonable rear seating - Of late this is becoming a pain point in swift, and its time I get good seating space at the rear as well.
  • abs/ebd
  • airbags - These are not there in my car, and I feel these are of paramount importance for my next car.
  • bluetooth for handling calls - I usually dont take calls while driving, but realize that even the short calls that I do take can be better done with bluetooth on the car, without taking my eyes off the road.
  • other technical features like MID - its time I have a need for this, considering my geekiness quotient and am in a position to appreciate this now than before.

Having said this, my swift would fetch somewhere close to 4 lakh now if sold, and I can plonk in another 4-5 lacs. The need is for a sedan with the following features:
  • ABS/Airbags/EBD
  • Climate control
  • High or reasonable ground clearance
  • Diesel engine which is as zippy or little less than swift, and something without that turbo boost will do
  • Good rear legroom and headroom
  • MID with minimal information
  • Lots of storage space in the doors, etc
  • Defogger, rear wiper
  • Alloys preferred with the car
  • Bluetooth and audio controls on steering

In the quest for all this, I ended up spotting Linea, Corolla Diesel, Innova (yes though its a different segment, it still had what I wanted at my price more or less), and the yet to be launched Etios Sedan and Polo Sedan.

I did consider some petrol vehicles like the Honda City, Fiesta petrol, but these did not meet my criteria mentioned above. Verna was outdated in design, so did not consider this and I have also heard this car gives you more power than you can manage and one has to be careful with this while driving.

Optra magnum diesel does not appeal to me as I want something refreshing. Honda city does not have climate control for a very high price at that.

So in the end I am left with an underpowered Fiat Linea (where I have to put with the underpoweredness, and TATA for servicing), an Innova which is a strong contender (except parking space and manouvering) and the Polo Sedan - I just hope they launch it with all bells and whistles like Linea albeit with a more powerful engine. The corolla is out more or less since diesel will be 14+ and thats not what I can or need to afford.

The only reason for looking for a Honda or Toyota is reliability and peace of mind which becomes essential when you plonk in huge amounts of money on this. Also the ownership is atleast 7 years from now. Yeah, I don't intend to change again honestly. Fiat is great, but they have a perfect knack of giving you the creeps when it comes to servicing. Efforts are great, but end results still lacking. I mean how often have you given your TVS bike to a bajaj service center? Sounds a bit off the beaten path for me atleast.

Have i considered old petrols or diesels (civics, crv's?) oh yea I have but just that I am all the more confused on this golden investment which brings me back to the value I get out of the money I pay (old or new) as per priorities listed above.

So as usual I am asking all of you to suggest me what my money can buy. An yes I do have the time, time to wait until the polo sedan is launched and perhaps the T-jet linea and corolla diesel all due by july and perhaps a couple of months more. If its innova, I will make a deal in december and avail depreciation benefits.

So let your thoughts hit me hard and fast, even if I get black eyed.



Okay, so I am going to digress a bit from the general view here.

1) With your driving, it just doesn't make sense to buy a diesel. Your maintenance costs alone will push it up to the same level as maintaining a petrol car that is a segment higher!

2) Of all the new sedans in your budget, I personally do not consider any good VFM. Least of all the City.

3) You are absolutely correct in that the Linea in Underpowered, the Verna seems slightly old (drives brilliantly well though!) ; City is just way over priced ( no offense to any one, its a very capable car, but IMO its too expensive )

So the conclusion I can come to is, look at Petrol Cars, look at used petrol cars, you can get Accords for pretty good prices, but the real deals are to be had with Camrys. Their re-sale just bombs and you should be able to pick up a really good 1-2 years old with low mileage for 10-12 in Bangalore. If you don't mind the old body style, you can even pick up hardly used Camrys for 4 lacs or so!

A friend of mine bought a 6 month old Accord with 7000 km's for 16 lacs. I think you are better off buying a used Accord or Camry.
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Old 25th May 2010, 13:55   #30
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
1)

3) Best if to go in for SX4/City. Although petrol, both have good space, individual strength and weakness. Vadodara Toyota dealer informed that Corolla Altis diesel is coming in 2010 end with 1.6l engine with excellent FE. But I doubt about this date and I doubt it will be less than Rs. 10 lakh. Toyota Innova and Altis reach Rs. 13.5 and Rs. 15.3 lakh respectively OTR Vadodara. None of the two is really VFM deal at that price.
.
You are right on this aaggo, next month will see the corolla diesels in showrooms, but price is expected to be 15 lac mark. i've a family member working in toyota who confirms this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anandg View Post
HI GeekSrik,
You were one of the reasons why I became a swift fan. Sad to hear that your parting ways with her. Anyways I have 3 suggestions here.
1) In your first post the features you described are all present in Jazz. Amazing car, bit slow but great on features and Honda Badge, but its hatch if you can bear with.
2) There is one VW Passat someone is selling on carwale.com. Check that out. German engineering never fails to impress.
3) Cedia is also powerful car with all features you want that is also present in carwale.com:
Used Cars - Search used cars available for sale in India - CarWale.com
thanks for your suggestions, i ll take a look at these.

Quote:
Originally Posted by imp! View Post
Okay, so I am going to digress a bit from the general view here.

1) With your driving, it just doesn't make sense to buy a diesel. Your maintenance costs alone will push it up to the same level as maintaining a petrol car that is a segment higher!

2) Of all the new sedans in your budget, I personally do not consider any good VFM. Least of all the City.

3) You are absolutely correct in that the Linea in Underpowered, the Verna seems slightly old (drives brilliantly well though!) ; City is just way over priced ( no offense to any one, its a very capable car, but IMO its too expensive )

So the conclusion I can come to is, look at Petrol Cars, look at used petrol cars, you can get Accords for pretty good prices, but the real deals are to be had with Camrys. Their re-sale just bombs and you should be able to pick up a really good 1-2 years old with low mileage for 10-12 in Bangalore. If you don't mind the old body style, you can even pick up hardly used Camrys for 4 lacs or so!

A friend of mine bought a 6 month old Accord with 7000 km's for 16 lacs. I think you are better off buying a used Accord or Camry.
The used accord/civic look tempting enough. I personally love the camry for its real huge road presence and bullish looks, but am tending to get pragmatic on trying not to feel like a wealthy businessman when all i am is yet another geek! i am seriously going to see used civics. the linea always remains on the list no matter what i try, because it simply has the features for a good price hard to beat by others.
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