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Old 18th August 2010, 23:34   #46
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For diesel: Just double check if you are getting the 1.9 PD engine in either car. Its the one to avoid.

For petrol: Avoid the Jetta, that 1.6 engine struggles to move the car. Think 1.8TSI Laura period


Another reason :I would suggest you get the Laura cause The Jetta is about to get replaced with a new version. U might suffer some heartache if you see that happen in a year or so.
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Old 19th August 2010, 10:34   #47
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Is there any information on VW after-sales service quality in Bangalore ? Anyone having service experience with Elite Motors or VW Palace Cross ?
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Old 19th August 2010, 10:44   #48
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For diesel: Just double check if you are getting the 1.9 PD engine in either car. Its the one to avoid.

For petrol: Avoid the Jetta, that 1.6 engine struggles to move the car. Think 1.8TSI Laura period


Another reason :I would suggest you get the Laura cause The Jetta is about to get replaced with a new version. U might suffer some heartache if you see that happen in a year or so.
I know that the Jetta now comes with the 2.0 CRDI and I am not interested in the petrol. I got dissuaded from buying Jetta because of the new model round the corner. However the wait can be more than a year. I have booked the Vento diesel and hope to test drive it soon. According to the reviews the Diesel Vento is great.
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Old 19th August 2010, 11:21   #49
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I know that the Jetta now comes with the 2.0 CRDI and I am not interested in the petrol. I got dissuaded from buying Jetta because of the new model round the corner. However the wait can be more than a year. I have booked the Vento diesel and hope to test drive it soon. According to the reviews the Diesel Vento is great.
Where have given your Vento booking? VW Downtown or Palace Cross? Did they tell you when you can expect delivery? Which model?
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Old 19th August 2010, 12:05   #50
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First a Superb vs. Passat thread and now a Jetta vs. Laura thread - sibling rivalry? looks like VW/Skoda is eating into their own sales.
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Old 19th August 2010, 15:08   #51
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If the new Jetta reports are to be believed, no doubt the new Jetta looks fabulous but compared to current one it loses out in one major critical aspect, which is rear suspension. It is observed that the American version has a more basic twisted beam type suspension in lieu of independent muti axle type of the current one in the interests of saving cost. One thing is clear though, VW is holding back on engine options due to its model replacement, 2.0CRDI being inevitable for launch due to environmental regulations. Otherwise, compared to Laura its a more classy car to look and feel and also packs with more safety features like six airbags to justify the differential price.
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Old 19th August 2010, 15:55   #52
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Thinking about it, it is the other way. My heart is for the Jetta but my mind says DSG.
I was in the same dilemma about 6 months ago. Ultimately I chose the Jetta Comfortline. The minus for the Laura was its service in Chennai. I have visited the VW Chennai workshop twice till now, once to check out the vehicle during PDI and once to top up oil at 8K kms, and I am quite satisfied with the response times. They didn't charge me for the oil top up as well. Touchwood, everything should go fine.
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Old 19th August 2010, 16:26   #53
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Where have given your Vento booking? VW Downtown or Palace Cross? Did they tell you when you can expect delivery? Which model?
I have booked at the palace cross. I had booked it before the prices were announced. Hopefully I should be one of the early birds. They are saying about mid september. Still no sign of the display or the test vehicle. I have booked the Diesel highline.
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Old 20th August 2010, 00:52   #54
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I have booked at the palace cross. I had booked it before the prices were announced. Hopefully I should be one of the early birds. They are saying about mid september. Still no sign of the display or the test vehicle. I have booked the Diesel highline.
Congrats. I might follow your example in booking the diesel vento. My only wish is that the comfortline should be made available soon. I think the trendline is too barebones and the Highline is a bit of an overkill for me cause i would like to buy an after market music system (Since I am an audiophile)
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Old 8th September 2010, 16:30   #55
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Originally Posted by v.anand View Post
If the new Jetta reports are to be believed, no doubt the new Jetta looks fabulous but compared to current one it loses out in one major critical aspect, which is rear suspension. It is observed that the American version has a more basic twisted beam type suspension in lieu of independent muti axle type of the current one in the interests of saving cost. One thing is clear though, VW is holding back on engine options due to its model replacement, 2.0CRDI being inevitable for launch due to environmental regulations. Otherwise, compared to Laura its a more classy car to look and feel and also packs with more safety features like six airbags to justify the differential price.
Agreed. I just stepped out of the CRDi Trendline half an hour ago, and that itself is seriously good kit in its own restrained way. You either like it or you dont. Comfortline guise was not available in this showroom, but I did check it out in Goa, and adds bells and whistles rather than a new engine or a DSG box. Horses for courses, I think, in keeping with the general advice on these columns.
My worry, like some others' is that the 2011 one is actually bigger but not better. Looking at the US spec, we have to worry. Rear suspension is one thing, even things like rear disc brakes are being done away with. Plus it looks like a Vento, which looks like a Polo.
As for those looking for Indian-ised versions, that is unlikely to say the least. The whole move towards larger and cheaper is because of the Indians, Americans and Chinese, anyway! The new Jetta is also going to be assembled in Mexico, and that is where we will continue to get them from.
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Old 8th September 2010, 17:28   #56
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>>>

The new Jetta will be launched in India around mid-2011. It might well have better features than the new (US launched) Jetta,. viz., better plastics, interior colour options and so on. I am not sure about the rear suspension though. Note that in the US, (the Jetta's largest market), whereas the Jetta is termed as a 'small family car', in India it will be positioned, again, in the entry level D class.

I expect the new Jetta to have the new/upgraded DSG for India- buyers in this category will expect automatics in such a car. And diesel engines will rule (actually continue to rule).

Re. the new Jetta's looks and its similarity with other newly launched models, it is about creating a distinct VW family look, with subtle variations for each model. This is to create a distinct VW presence, on its path to strength in the growth markets ( India, China, Mexico and so on) of the world.

So the scenario is something like this :

Polo >>> Ford Figo, GM Beat, Hyundai i20, Fiat Punto, Skoda Fabia
Vento >>> Honda City, Fiat Linea, Ford Fiesta, Suzuki SX4
Jetta >>> GM Cruze, Toyota Corolla Altis, Honda Civic, Skoda Laura
Passat>>> Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, Nissan Teana

Plus there is the Up! which will likely target buyers below the Polo; the interest in Suzuki is to reduce development costs and getting volumes at price points where VW is not there, yet.


Despite the sharing of platforms- engines, transmissions, suspensions and so on in the VW stable, please note the pecking order thus :

1. Audi (the DSG is known as S Tronic here) the premium brand
2. VW the mainstream brand
3. Skoda the budget brand

Only quality benchmarks differ a little.

Conundrum, if VW were to contemplate launching SEAT in India, will it be #3 or #4?

Regards

Last edited by issigonis : 8th September 2010 at 17:38. Reason: Corrected and made additional points
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Old 9th September 2010, 10:16   #57
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>>>

The new Jetta will be launched in India around mid-2011. It might well have better features than the new (US launched) Jetta,. viz., better plastics, interior colour options and so on. I am not sure about the rear suspension though. Note that in the US, (the Jetta's largest market), whereas the Jetta is termed as a 'small family car', in India it will be positioned, again, in the entry level D class.

I expect the new Jetta to have the new/upgraded DSG for India- buyers in this category will expect automatics in such a car. And diesel engines will rule (actually continue to rule).

Re. the new Jetta's looks and its similarity with other newly launched models, it is about creating a distinct VW family look, with subtle variations for each model. This is to create a distinct VW presence, on its path to strength in the growth markets ( India, China, Mexico and so on) of the world.
I get the part about the family look, its just that if you look at the front of the upcoming Jetta, it looks almost like a Vento. At least the (current) Phaeton and the upcoming Passat have a more differentiated demeanor to them.

As far as what spec arrives in India, we must remember we do not get anything better than a Comfortline so far, anyway. Even Europe's "S" Variant has better engine specs than what we are getting here; The UK S variant ( lowest spec) has none of the engines offered here, and go upto 2.0 L TSI.

So, I seriously doubt we shall be seeing any Euro spec Jetta in this country. The New Jetta was designed expressly for developing and the US and Chinese markets, and I think that is what we are going to get. If there is a DSG at all, it will probably come with a 1.4 L TSI or a 2.0 L CRDI (though even here we get the 110PS engine while the rest get the 140PS version)
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Old 9th September 2010, 18:08   #58
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As far as what spec arrives in India, we must remember we do not get anything better than a Comfortline so far, anyway. Even Europe's "S" Variant has better engine specs than what we are getting here; The UK S variant ( lowest spec) has none of the engines offered here, and go upto 2.0 L TSI.

So, I seriously doubt we shall be seeing any Euro spec Jetta in this country. The New Jetta was designed expressly for developing and the US and Chinese markets, and I think that is what we are going to get. If there is a DSG at all, it will probably come with a 1.4 L TSI or a 2.0 L CRDI (though even here we get the 110PS engine while the rest get the 140PS version)
To get a sense of what I am talking about, look at this: ( 2011 Volkswagen Jetta first drive | The Car Tech blog - CNET Reviews )
The SEL, which is top-level trim for the US, should roughly equate to a Highline here. And we should note that we don't get a Highline here at all, so far!

Take a look at the part that says this will have 8 speakers. Our Trendline currently comes with 10, and the Comfortline with 12.

Or this, ( 2011 Volkswagen Jetta - New VW Jetta - VW.com) which says "up to 6 airbags" are part of the equipment package ( I guess this means the SEL). Need we remind ourselves that the Trendline in India currently has 6 already, and the Comfortline has 8?

The SEL also does not seem to have auto climate control, which even the Trendline has now in India. And you get a faux-leather (read vinyl) interior.

The most damning indictment~ and one i agree with wholeheartedly even by virtue of following this from spy pics of mules to the launch at Times Square) is here : ( 2011 Volkswagen Jetta - test drive and new car review - 2011 Volkswagen Jetta )

The upcoming Jetta is a step backwards, a de-contented version of the old one, and to someone who is looking for a VW to mean VW, and not German Honda, this will rankle. For me, I am probably going to pick up the current Jetta before it gets re-launched as a "bigger and cheaper", but definitely not better, version for 2011. (And in our cities, going bigger these days is not necessarily good for anyone, anyway, what with lack of parking and bumper to bumper traffic)

So, the new Jetta is very much a cheapening exercise, and that is what we will get.

To get back to the topic at hand, the current Laura in higher end trims will beat this in spec in many departments, much as it is already doing now. We have to factor in A.S.S and all the rest. For purists, its a toss up between better bang for your buck with the Skoda, vs waiting for a new Jetta that is not going to be better than the old one apart from being larger and maybe cheaper.

The third option is to knowingly go in for the current Jetta, which has engines that date back to 1999 and with the new one just around the corner! What choices we have here in India, none of them good!

Last edited by crackingride : 9th September 2010 at 18:20.
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Old 9th September 2010, 19:55   #59
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I get the part about the family look, its just that if you look at the front of the upcoming Jetta, it looks almost like a Vento. At least the (current) Phaeton and the upcoming Passat have a more differentiated demeanor to them.
>>> Agree; but I would not expect the Jetta to look similar to the more upscale Phaeton or the next level Passat- with the family look as a given.

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So, I seriously doubt we shall be seeing any Euro spec Jetta in this country. The New Jetta was designed expressly for developing and the US and Chinese markets, and I think that is what we are going to get. If there is a DSG at all, it will probably come with a 1.4 L TSI or a 2.0 L CRDI (though even here we get the 110PS engine while the rest get the 140PS version)
>>> Agree again; I didn't refer to the new Jetta being the same as the one for UK or the EU. The new Jetta/NCS is meant for the growth markets and going by the media reports, seems that cost reduction is a strong focus area to meet the high numbers - VW talks of overall sales of 800k by 2018.

As for India, the new Jetta will take on the C+ sedans (Cruze, Civic, Corolla et. al) and is likely to be comparable to these. I did mention that the interior specs of the new Jetta for India will likely be better than the comparable ones for the US, simply because, and I re-iterate, that the Jetta here is positioned in a different category as compared to its positioning in the US.

I think the logic for a limited choice of engines, suspension and interior trim is due to the fact, right or wrong, that the growth markets are generally perceived to be less sophisticated than the other markets (read EU/US/UK/Canada/Japan).

The Jetta is not the main player in India for VW; therefore inadequate attention is being paid to the requirements of the buying segment. Auto majors forget that buyers of C, C+ and D segment cars in India are as knowledgable and sophisticated in their demands as anywhere else.

In the case of the Jetta, what has happened is that, initially smaller engines were chosen keeping the rest of the offering at par. Later, the engine has been improved (CRDI), but now it seems that they are downgrading the rest to make it more competitive with the Japs.

Volumes and market share is king.

Am attaching a report from Motorward on the new Jetta/NCS for the US

Regards
Attached Files
File Type: doc The NCS 2011.doc (27.0 KB, 342 views)
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Old 10th September 2010, 10:21   #60
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>>>



>>>

As for India, the new Jetta will take on the C+ sedans (Cruze, Civic, Corolla et. al) and is likely to be comparable to these. I did mention that the interior specs of the new Jetta for India will likely be better than the comparable ones for the US, simply because, and I re-iterate, that the Jetta here is positioned in a different category as compared to its positioning in the US.

I think the logic for a limited choice of engines, suspension and interior trim is due to the fact, right or wrong, that the growth markets are generally perceived to be less sophisticated than the other markets (read EU/US/UK/Canada/Japan).

The Jetta is not the main player in India for VW; therefore inadequate attention is being paid to the requirements of the buying segment. Auto majors forget that buyers of C, C+ and D segment cars in India are as knowledgable and sophisticated in their demands as anywhere else.

I'm not too sure I get the difference in the positioning (segment-wise) of the new offer here vs. in the USA. As far as I can tell, the US version is also being pulled downward to target the Civics and Corollas.
Are you of the opinion that we will get a dumbed-down (US) Jetta with slightly upmarket (Euro) interiors? In that case, we are going to be getting fleeced twice over, and will be paying for mutton dressed as lamb!

The considered opinion of most US based reviews and publications themselves is that the NCS is for those who never owned a VW before (and therefore won't be disappointed), and not for those who have.

That goes with market share and volumes. However, as any branding consultant will also tell you, a brand is what consumers make of it. Consumers who could not afford the BMWs but were getting a decent German car made VW a strong 'Euro' car brand.

Now, it will be the millions of people buying the Indian Polo and the US and Chinese Jetta that will determine the character of the brand. If it's a German version of a Japanese or Korean car, they have lost their differentiating factor and unique 'reason to believe'. They are still flogging a Phaeton in this country (handmade luxury), and where does that fit with de-contented Polo and Jetta?

I for one, seeing this strategy, do not believe in paying more for the brand in the future, because my take on the brand was affordable German cars, with Euro spec and handling and body-sizes, and all the rest that goes with it.

We must remember that the Koreans and Japanese and Americans like Ford are going up-market while the VW head-honchos think of dumbing down.

Last edited by crackingride : 10th September 2010 at 10:22.
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