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Old 19th December 2005, 19:30   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldie_malhotra
Can you ? I doubt it.

Fiesta needs some time to prove itself on these counts. Lets give it a year.
I Agree , the other day i went to test drive the fiesta (of course after testing the NHC), the moment i entered the car ,i just did nt get the feeling which i got in the Nhc,the built quality ,crude upholstry,and the typical ford plastic like dash just upset me.
Just did nt feel like compromising just because of a Lac less.
Honda on the other hand definately scores above in terms of the fine cabin finish.

On the other hand also one thing which i dont quite like about ford is the way they manipulate their prices.I remember just last year i bought a fusion for my sister ,which at that time was just launched, they were not interested in giving even a single rupee discount,this year they come with a 50 k discount.

Honda does nt offer any discounts.So i know my cars value does nt go down soon after i buy one

Last edited by mike3d : 19th December 2005 at 19:38.
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Old 20th December 2005, 02:46   #62
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The Ford Fusion is a much maligned vehicle. It has tons of space, an engine which is probably superior to the NHC Vtec, and a unique look (of course the NHC has a unique look as well, but not in a good way). Also, with Airbags and ABS and decent discounts these days, I think its the best choice.

NHC is the most refined car in this segment, and is the perfect buy if you dont have any car related emotions at all (i.e. if you can get over the strange looks and drowsy engine). Interiors, FE and ride are great.

Fiesta tries to be everything, but in the process its become a very ordinary car, with no unique strengths. It looks very ordinary, is less fun to drive than the car its replacing, and the quality is not as good as the NHC.

Your choice buddy. I'd definitely pick the Fusion, throw in a sunroof and some fatter tyres on 16" alloys... and do something about that rear bumper which isnt meaty enough.
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Old 20th December 2005, 03:43   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldie_malhotra
have you ever considered the fact that some people do not mind being "ROBBED" as long as they get

- Peace of mind
- Lower maintainence costs
- Better Build quality and reliability
- Latest technology
- More FE
- Better resale value
- Class-transcending interiors
- and the fact that they are buying a vehicle that the BEST in class, rather than a vehicle which has been beaten in its class by other superior models and is lowering price just to get rid of those stocks in the factory.
a maruti baleno and a mitsubishi lancer give

equivalent peace of mind.
lesser maintainence costs
similar build quality and reliability
old and proven technology
similar FE (unless you dont want to believe it)
average but upgradeable interiors


about beating the competition, I wouldnt really agree with you. Each car wins awards in the first year it is introduced. baleno sells more than the NHC.
I agree currently lancer has been beaten badly. But thats coz its replacement is due soon. let the 1600cc screamer engine come and then we will see which car gets its pants ripped.

I wouldnt pay more for just those beautiful interiors. Instead I may pay the same and get an optra which is bigger and more luxurious at the same price.


fusion makes sense if its practical enough for daily usage.

Elantra and optra 1.6 would be the one to choose for a car in 8lakhs.

NHC is for those who think Honda is the car god which manufactures cars that dont run on fuel and are faster than rockets. hope Honda makes a sensible move soon.

Last edited by devarshi84 : 20th December 2005 at 03:47.
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Old 20th December 2005, 10:17   #64
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Devarshi, what 1600cc screamer engine are you talking about? I know of the 1.5, the 1.8 Invex and the 2 litre diesel. I've also heard of the new 2 litre Cedia. But I haven't heard anything about a 1.6 litre for the Lancer.
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Old 20th December 2005, 10:40   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theEnd
The Ford Fusion is a much maligned vehicle. It has tons of space, an engine which is probably superior to the NHC Vtec, and a unique look (of course the NHC has a unique look as well, but not in a good way).
Quote:
Originally Posted by devarshi84
Each car wins awards in the first year it is introduced. baleno sells more than the NHC.
I agree currently lancer has been beaten badly. But thats coz its replacement is due soon.

NHC is for those who think Honda is the car god which manufactures cars that dont run on fuel and are faster than rockets.
Hahaha... no words to comment. Just
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Old 20th December 2005, 10:43   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devarshi84
NHC is for those who think Honda is the car god which manufactures cars that dont run on fuel and are faster than rockets. hope Honda makes a sensible move soon.
Devarshi, touche...!!!!
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Old 20th December 2005, 10:51   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldie_malhotra
Can you ? I doubt it.

Fiesta needs some time to prove itself on these counts. Lets give it a year.
What exactly are we comparing here is what I'd like to know. Only the NHC ZX Vtec is comparable to the Fiesta SXI and that too the NHC DOES NOT have ABS & EBD even as an option (I'm not sure if it has leather upholstery either). Yes, rear seat legroom may be marginally more in the City with the front seat fully pushed back but that's about it.

I agree that Fiesta needs to prove itself but lets not get completely carried away and place the City way up there just because its a Honda! For heaven's sake, the NHC ZX Vtec is 1.50 lacs more on road (if I'm not mistaken) compared to the Fiesta SXI!

FE may not be the only reason for buying a car
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Old 20th December 2005, 10:53   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike3d
I Agree , the other day i went to test drive the fiesta (of course after testing the NHC), the moment i entered the car ,i just did nt get the feeling which i got in the Nhc,the built quality ,crude upholstry,and the typical ford plastic like dash just upset me.
Mike, which version did you test, was it the base 1.4?
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Old 20th December 2005, 11:25   #69
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Quote:
NHC is the most refined car in this segment, and is the perfect buy if you dont have any car related emotions at all (i.e. if you can get over the strange looks and drowsy engine). Interiors, FE and ride are great.
Great ride? Am i missing something. It's got a horrible rear suspension. On the potholes there is a thud like the car is gonna break open. Have you compared the ride with other cars like the Petra, Optra,Fiesta or even the Baleno.

Quote:
Fiesta tries to be everything. It looks very ordinary, is less fun to drive than the car its replacing, and the quality is not as good as the NHC.
Less fun to drive than an Ikon but much more fun to drive than the NHC Idsi any day. Even then the Fiesta is quicker in a straight line than an ikon. Have you driven the car properly?

Quote:
I agree that Fiesta needs to prove itself but lets not get completely carried away and place the City way up there just because its a Honda! For heaven's sake, the NHC ZX Vtec is 1.50 lacs more on road (if I'm not mistaken) compared to the Fiesta SXI!
And similar for the Fiesta 1.4 and the NHC Idsi.

Quote:
FE may not be the only reason for buying a car
Right again! We seem to be going overboard by the FE.
See this excellent analysis by Shuvc.(http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/153545-post69.html.
A overall FE increase from 13-14 Kmpl or 12-14 Kmpl will save you peanuts.If you are so concerned about FE, why not go for a diesel.

Quote:
I Agree , the other day i went to test drive the fiesta (of course after testing the NHC), the moment i entered the car ,i just did nt get the feeling which i got in the Nhc,the built quality ,crude upholstry,and the typical ford plastic like dash just upset me.
Just did nt feel like compromising just because of a Lac less.
Honda on the other hand definately scores above in terms of the fine cabin finish.
I hope you understand that there are other things to a car than the interiors.
During your test drive i am surprised that you did not realize that even the 1.4 Fiesta is significantly more peppier than a NHC Idsi.I am not talking about the 1.6 here at all.

Drive both cars on the same section of the road and you will understand the sizeable difference in ride quality. The Fiesta rides like a solid European car(similar to the Petra,Optra,Corsa etc). The NHC feels like a go cart with a wobbly rear end. Even the handling of the NHC is pathetic. The AC of the Fiesta is also significantly better.

If you are so concerned about the Interiors and the build quality, why don't you go with the Optra. There is no car which is more comfortable in the same price range.
As i said before you must test drive the cars thoroughly and then decide objectively.Choose your priorities,no single car will give you everything. Fiesta, Optra and Baleno are the smart choices here. You won't go wrong with either of them.

Last edited by imjimmy : 20th December 2005 at 11:44.
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Old 20th December 2005, 11:37   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devarshi84
a maruti baleno and a mitsubishi lancer give

equivalent peace of mind.
lesser maintainence costs
similar build quality and reliability
old and proven technology
similar FE (unless you dont want to believe it)
average but upgradeable interiors


about beating the competition, I wouldnt really agree with you. Each car wins awards in the first year it is introduced. baleno sells more than the NHC.
I agree currently lancer has been beaten badly. But thats coz its replacement is due soon. let the 1600cc screamer engine come and then we will see which car gets its pants ripped.

I wouldnt pay more for just those beautiful interiors. Instead I may pay the same and get an optra which is bigger and more luxurious at the same price.


fusion makes sense if its practical enough for daily usage.

Elantra and optra 1.6 would be the one to choose for a car in 8lakhs.

NHC is for those who think Honda is the car god which manufactures cars that dont run on fuel and are faster than rockets. hope Honda makes a sensible move soon.
Well Devarshi... Not sure what you have against Honda but some of the facts you have provided above may be questionable. For one, Baleno DOES NOT outsell City. City has been the best selling car in its segment since the day it was launched. Only in Oct-Nov this year the sale is down as they had stopped manufacturing the current version.
Also, personaly I would rate a manufacture very high on my list, if they stop the best selling car and come up with a newer, better and later version. Look at Honda or Toyota... they stopped best sellers like OHC (VTEC and non VTEC) and Qualis, to come up with better and improved cars. I was a Maruti fan once upon a time but now with them still running 800, zen and Alto together (three generations of Alto), and also changing the grill of Esteem and keeping it alive, I have given up on them. The only reason Baleno is still selling is because of its price. But what is the use of buying a good car, when you know the next year it will be still cheaper by a lakh.

Regarding FE, I am sure NHC gives better figure than Baleno and also with Honda, you can be sure that the company will not ditch you with lowering their price etc.

Cheers friend!
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Old 20th December 2005, 11:57   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suman
What exactly are we comparing here is what I'd like to know.
Factors like ASS, maintenance costs, overall FE, build-quality & reliability (over a long term) & overall satisfaction & peace of mind etc.

We cannot pre-judge a new car on these factors. The car has to be out there on the roads for some amount of time - typically 6 months or a year, before we can make out how it figures on the above counts.

The manufacturers claims - however optimistic, do not hold true until car proves itself in the market.
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Old 20th December 2005, 12:02   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devarshi84
baleno sells more than the NHC.

Which year are you talking about ??

Baleno has less than 6k cars sold this year compared to NHC ~30k.

There is a whole magnitude of difference here.
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Old 20th December 2005, 12:18   #73
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There is a famous saying...you can fool some of the people some of the time but you can't fool all the people all the time. That is why Honda sells at least 3000 Citys every month. They are'nt fooling anybody. There is no doubt that they are the undisputed leaders in their segment. And that too without a diesel in their stable. I can vouch that if Ford did not have the diesel Fiesta..the car would have gone the Ikon way. I can still see Ford offering big discounts on the Fiesta after the initial euphoria settles down. As an overall package..you cannot beat the Honda City. I don't own one and I am still saying this. Some dealers of Honda do have an attitude problem but overall their ASS is exemplary. Just to cite an example of their service : Honda and Ford launched the City ZX and Fiesta respectively at around the same time. I registered for a TD on the Ford website and I got a call one night from Chennai taking my details and stating that their dealer would approach me for a TD within one week of the car hitting the showroom. Till today I have not received a call from any dealer. On the other hand, I registered for a Honda City ZX TD on the web. The next day I got a call from Ichibaan Honda. I was driving at the time and said I would return the call on reaching office. The same afternoon(it was a Saturday), I called Ichibaan and asked for the TD on tuesday and to confirm on Tuesday morning. I called on Monday morning to find out whether the TD for tuesday was arranged but did not get a satisfactory response. I immediately posted a complaint on the site. Within a couple of hours, I got an email from Honda customer relations apologizing for the response and a salesperson from the dealer called up almost immediately and arranged the TD on tuesday. Overall I did find the car quite a bit better than the old NHC at least in the ride and handling depts which had needed immediate attention. As someone said, the did'nt need to do even that..and they did it because they care for the customer and not because they needed to increase sales.
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Old 20th December 2005, 12:23   #74
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Quote:
I can still see Ford offering big discounts on the Fiesta after the initial euphoria settles down.
You must be clairvoyant or prophetic then! Ford has said about increasing the prices of Fiesta( like the swift) and not the other way round.

Quote:
Some dealers of Honda do have an attitude problem but overall their ASS is exemplary. Just to cite an example of their
service
And i can site an opposite example. I got two calls from Ford India(headquarters) when i put a query on their website. Both the Ford dealers in my city called me seperately for a TD. In case of a Honda the dealer had only one Vtec and only gave the TD when my friend actually bought the NHC Idsi. Even then the salesman was giving mean looks when i tried to redline the engine.
Isolated incidents mean nothing, your single experience cannot exonerate the entire dealer network of Honda!

Quote:
Factors like ASS, maintenance costs, overall FE, build-quality & reliability (over a long term) & overall satisfaction & peace of mind etc.
There are other cars there that offer better ASS, lesser maintenance cost and higher peace of mind than the NHC.

Talking about maintenance both the Accent and the Baleno have lower service charges(both labour and the consumables).

Regarding spare parts both the Accent and Baleno are significantly cheaper than the NHC.( Compare,in INR,55k for Accent,63 K for Baleno and 98k for the NHC-ACI spareparts survey).

Talking about the ASS, Maruti and Hyundai have the best and the widest dealer and service network. Honda has a single dealer in most of the non-metros(and even some metros). And i have heard and seen many stories where the Honda dealers/service-stations have taken the owners for a ride.

Agreed the NHC is well build and is reliable.But Honda needs to seriously work on it's dealer and sales network in India.
Don't think ASS,Maintenane and peace of mind can be the USP of the NHC.

Maintaining a Baleno and the Accent costs peanuts and you are secure with the knowledge that even in a rainy day(unfortunate accident or similar) they won't pinch your pocket.

Last edited by imjimmy : 20th December 2005 at 12:37.
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Old 20th December 2005, 12:49   #75
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You do not need to be prophetic to make that statement. Just look at the history and the current scenario... 1 Lac discount on Fusion!!!! Accent for 5.xx.. what does all this mean. People sometime feel good when they get a discount but it actually means that the resale value of your car has gone down exponentialy as soon as you bought it. How many times have you seen a Honda advertisment selling discounts instead of cars!

Also, regarding the cost of services and spares, I think they will offset when you sell you car after a few years. Honda's resale is still unmatched in the market!
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