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Old 28th October 2010, 13:51   #1
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Default Automatic Diesel Sedan Dilemma

Hey folks,
I have booked a Vento Highline Diesel Candy White on Sept 21 and delivery is expected in the 3rd week of December (only jesal & vicky5669 know about it as yet). This is going to replace my trusty 2.5 year old Logan. Due to commissioning of two CNC machines at our factory this financial year, we decided not to spend more than 10 Lacs on a new car as we don't want to go for finance/hypothecation (no use, can't even write it off as an expense due to heavy purchases this year). The VW Vento fitted the bill comfortably.

Buttt, to tell you honestly, i have not been very comfortable ever since. The reasons are as follows:

1. I always wanted an Automatic after we bought the i10 & also because of a bad left knee & horrendous rush hour traffic everyday that i am still keen on an Automatic car.

2. Dad's main concern is a diesel whether automatic or manual it does not matter, because he doesn't drive any more with age & more so with insane traffic.

3. VW image as a whole. Both my sisters in the US were aghast when they heard i booked a VW Sedan. Out there, the reputation is such that its at the bottom in the heap of reliable cars.

4. European after sales & service in India (even Dealerships actually) will never match their Japanese & Korean Counterparts in most departments. Having owned a Logan, i've had issues with its Electricals (some Major) & minor niggles every now & then. With the Hyundai Accent Viva i had earlier for over 5 years & now the i10, they're virtually the fill it, shut it, forget it types. * Also now with dad's health problems & mom's old age & the whole responsibility of business, i'd rather not stress over an unreliable car.

Now, the only option remaining with me which takes care of diesel aspect as well as automatic aspect within 10 Lacs plus minus 50k is the Verna 1.5CRDi SX A/T.

What i don't like:
1. No Air-bags
2. Boat like handling
3. Heard of Turbo failures after 60-70k's here on this forum

Why i'm still keen:
1. The last highway trip i had was Baroda last year during Diwali. And one 3 years back. For now, with me being tied up, i foresee that the car will be used 95-97% in the city. * Also, i never go beyond 100-110kmph even on the Mumbai-Pune Expressway when i travel with folks & no individual trips.
2. Automatic Transmission. And yes, i know its a 4 speed box, but i really don't have a problem with it as long as its convenient & a boon to drive everyday in the city.
3. The reliability (here i'm being optimistic). Never had issues with my Maruti's & Hyundai's with minor niggles. Ever.

We don't have much options left actually as Dad will not consider a Used car & a petrol.

Suggestions Guys. Please.

Regards,
Anil

Last edited by anilkalvani : 28th October 2010 at 14:02. Reason: *
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Old 28th October 2010, 14:15   #2
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Did you jump the gun? Yes you did.

Vento will be a very nice upgrade and compared to Verna a classy one. Currently a friend is in for a new car [upgrade from CityZx] and we were both searching. Verna was crossed, it does not have the looks [subjective] and its not a handler [I started getting motion sick at moderate speeds,they ought to sought the suspensions]

You wanting an AT then stick to it. Whats your monthly/annual mileage? That will help you sort out the Diesel vs Petrol and then you can go in for Vento/ANHC AT. Cheers!
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Old 28th October 2010, 14:29   #3
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I don't think the Vento Diesel comes in AT.

If you don't mind the used segment, you can get sweet deals in the laura/superb diesels.

Other than the Verna, you don't have any options in diesel ATs in the 10L rupee range.

Have you thought about the i20 CRdi? Don't know if it comes in diesel though.

EDIT:

Slightly off topic. If the car is for your dad primarily, go for the Manza and have him chauffeured around. Very comfortable rear seats and the money you save (with interest) will pay for your driver bills.

Last edited by Tejas@perioimpl : 28th October 2010 at 14:33. Reason: see edit
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Old 28th October 2010, 14:35   #4
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Why are you particular about Diesel ? how much is your monthly running..

also have you thought of a gas kit in a petrol AT model ?
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Old 28th October 2010, 14:39   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post

Have you thought about the i20 CRdi? Don't know if it comes in diesel though.

I am guessing this is a type error ?
CRDI - Common-Rail diesel injection

@anil -
For your needs and in your budget the only choices you have are the ones you are aware of - Vento & Verna. You havnt overlooked any model.

Though the Verna has A/T , the Vento is a much better buy over all IMO.
However if having the Auto Tranny is your biggest priority above safety (airbags,build quality) ,comfort etc then the Verna it is !
Good luck
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Old 28th October 2010, 14:52   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlatzdaTurbo View Post
I am guessing this is a type error ?
CRDI - Common-Rail diesel injection
LOL. I meant Don't know if it comes in AT though. The petrol 1.4 does.
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Old 28th October 2010, 14:53   #7
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I'd beg to differ. I know how it feels to go back to manual after getting used to an AT in Mumbai traffic. Unless it is open drivable roads, you miss the AT badly. When i know i am going to be driving in mad traffic, i always take the Santro AT without second thoughts (the excellent handling and safety of the Fabia be damned).

Inspite of the shortcomings - I would still recommend you to go back to the Verna AT.

Even with the 4 speed, that is one reliable auto box doing its duty in all Hyundais right now in the market. No one would argue against quality of the heart of the car - the engine is really good.

Upgrade to the best possible shoes you can for this to improve handling a little bit.

And if the use will be mostly in city, at sane speeds, i dont really think ABS/Airbags should be a big concern as compared to the daily convinence of autobox plus the economy of the diesel.

And no - it is not an 'easy conversion' from petrol to LPG/CNG for autoboxes, neither recommended.

If budget is fixed, either take this Diesel Verna AT or select Petrol AT - city or vento.

Last edited by jigbarai : 28th October 2010 at 14:54.
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Old 28th October 2010, 18:09   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sn1p3r View Post
Vento will be a very nice upgrade and compared to Verna a classy one.

Verna was crossed, it does not have the looks [subjective] and its not a handler [I started getting motion sick at moderate speeds,they ought to sought the suspensions]

You wanting an AT then stick to it. Whats your monthly/annual mileage? That will help you sort out the Diesel vs Petrol and then you can go in for Vento/ANHC AT. Cheers!
Not bothered about the "image" factor dude, trust me, else would have a different class of cars altogether in my garage in no time. Seriously, not worth in a city like Bombay with pathetic (suburbs), narrow (again suburban bylanes) & auto's. i got 4 scratches on my car, 3 were when my car was stationary . Only one was a frontal impact, again by an Energiser Bunny powered reckless bike rider. Suspension, Yes, will be an issue with Verna. But mostly it will be just me & dad in the front seat. The problem is even though my monthly mileage is low (1100-1200km), the car will be driven in dense traffic for 3-3.5 hours minimum daily. The average fuel consumption in traffic for automatic petrol cars fall to 6kmpl. Diesel would give me atleast 11kmpl if not more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
I don't think the Vento Diesel comes in AT.

If you don't mind the used segment, you can get sweet deals in the laura/superb diesels.

Other than the Verna, you don't have any options in diesel ATs in the 10L rupee range.

Have you thought about the i20 CRdi? Don't know if it comes in diesel though.

EDIT:

Slightly off topic. If the car is for your dad primarily, go for the Manza and have him chauffeured around. Very comfortable rear seats and the money you save (with interest) will pay for your driver bills.
If they had the Vento Diesel A/T, it would be the best. Used cars is one thing that i am trying to get Dad to agree. Just missed out on a Used 2008 Superb 2.5TDi V6 with 19,000km on the ODO for 12.5L

As of now, the Verna is the only Diesel Car below 15L that comes with an A/T option.

With our problems with Tata, We will NEVER go for a Tata/Mahindra/Indian Engineered Car in the foreseeable future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by narayan View Post
Why are you particular about Diesel ? how much is your monthly running..

also have you thought of a gas kit in a petrol AT model ?
I am not particular, Dad is. And it is VERY difficult to convince him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlatzdaTurbo View Post
@anil -
For your needs and in your budget the only choices you have are the ones you are aware of - Vento & Verna. You havnt overlooked any model.

Though the Verna has A/T , the Vento is a much better buy over all IMO.
However if having the Auto Tranny is your biggest priority above safety (airbags,build quality) ,comfort etc then the Verna it is !
Good luck
Exactly, its the ONLY option. Sadly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jigbarai View Post
I'd beg to differ. I know how it feels to go back to manual after getting used to an AT in Mumbai traffic. Unless it is open drivable roads, you miss the AT badly. When i know i am going to be driving in mad traffic, i always take the Santro AT without second thoughts (the excellent handling and safety of the Fabia be damned).

Inspite of the shortcomings - I would still recommend you to go back to the Verna AT.

Even with the 4 speed, that is one reliable auto box doing its duty in all Hyundais right now in the market. No one would argue against quality of the heart of the car - the engine is really good.

Upgrade to the best possible shoes you can for this to improve handling a little bit.

And if the use will be mostly in city, at sane speeds, i dont really think ABS/Airbags should be a big concern as compared to the daily convinence of autobox plus the economy of the diesel.

And no - it is not an 'easy conversion' from petrol to LPG/CNG for autoboxes, neither recommended.

If budget is fixed, either take this Diesel Verna AT or select Petrol AT - city or vento.
You read me bro, completely. Only a person who drives in Bombay can really understand where i'm coming from. And even i had thought of the same thing to buy a City AT & convert the i10 to CNG but hear its not very successful with Auto Trannies.

Need to take a call in a couple of weeks.
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Old 29th October 2010, 18:13   #9
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Anil,

You broadly have 3 options:

- Wait for the 2011 Hyundai Verna (RB). Search around the forum, it's been spotted testing.

- A Scorpio AT. Look through the forum reviews, owners are mostly happy. The Scorpio is a fairly reliable truck too.

- A used Octavia or Laura.

Don't ever buy a car you are not completely happy with. It always comes back & bites us petrolheads in the way of deep regret.
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Old 29th October 2010, 18:35   #10
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@anil you can buy just about a year old laura for about that range. And the verna diesel (if it came in auto) was a stonker but far as I remember the auto always hunted around for the right gear. Also available now is the toyota corrola diesel. Seems like everyone forgot about that and it does come in auto .
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Old 29th October 2010, 19:06   #11
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^^
Altis D just comes in MT. No AT options there.

Btw, what do you mean when you say 'auto hunted around for the right gear' ? Is that out of personal experience ? I am hearing this about Verna AT for the first time.

A couple of Verna AT reviews on the forum also did not mention anything on such issues.
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Old 29th October 2010, 19:19   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jigbarai View Post
^^
Altis D just comes in MT. No AT options there.

Btw, what do you mean when you say 'auto hunted around for the right gear' ? Is that out of personal experience ? I am hearing this about Verna AT for the first time.

A couple of Verna AT reviews on the forum also did not mention anything on such issues.
Had test driven someones at verna a while ago and a civic at the same time. Somehow in D the verna would hunt around and jet off as in there was a pause and then it'd take off whereas the civic was just soo much neater. So it was a small comparison.
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Old 30th October 2010, 09:02   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Anil,

You broadly have 3 options:

- Wait for the 2011 Hyundai Verna (RB). Search around the forum, it's been spotted testing.

- A Scorpio AT. Look through the forum reviews, owners are mostly happy. The Scorpio is a fairly reliable truck too.

- A used Octavia or Laura.

Don't ever buy a car you are not completely happy with. It always comes back & bites us petrolheads in the way of deep regret.
Need to change the Logan right away, still trying to convince Dad to change our booking to the Vento Petrol AT. * Never going to buy an Indian Engineered Car soon, had terrible experiences with my Tata Indigo, so Scorpio AT is out of the question. * And Yes, "Don't ever buy a car you are not completely happy with." is always on my mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhallen.282 View Post
@anil you can buy just about a year old laura for about that range. And the verna diesel (if it came in auto) was a stonker but far as I remember the auto always hunted around for the right gear. Also available now is the toyota corrola diesel. Seems like everyone forgot about that and it does come in auto .
Used cars are not in my Dad's interest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jigbarai View Post
^^
Altis D just comes in MT. No AT options there.

Btw, what do you mean when you say 'auto hunted around for the right gear' ? Is that out of personal experience ? I am hearing this about Verna AT for the first time.

A couple of Verna AT reviews on the forum also did not mention anything on such issues.
Exactly. Other than the boat like handling, no issues so far after upgrading the rubbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhallen.282 View Post
Had test driven someones at verna a while ago and a civic at the same time. Somehow in D the verna would hunt around and jet off as in there was a pause and then it'd take off whereas the civic was just soo much neater. So it was a small comparison.
Well, its the same with the i10 i drive, there's a very slight delay in gear shifts but not really enough to bother me too much. Civic is in a different league altogether. Also, don't forget, when i bought my i10 for 4.57L, the Civic AT was nearly 4 times more expensive at 16L.

Last edited by anilkalvani : 30th October 2010 at 09:07. Reason: *
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Old 30th October 2010, 23:47   #14
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@Anil

I personally wanted to buy a Diesel AT sedan 4 months ago (Jul 2010) but realised that Verna is only option in 10-11 Lac bracket. I convinced my heart & mind to book one.

But then the car lover in me stopped me from compromising and picked Optra Magnum for it's comfort and power.

In your case, I would suggest you to continue with Vento. As a car lover, it's not worth compromising
, I understand you do not want to stretch your budget for financial commitment. Why don't you extend your budget and gain advantage of Accounting principles to reduce tax liability? (Hope Convincing your dad on budget part is not a tough game) This will allow you to consider some good AT options in Diesel (depending on upper limit of your budget)
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Old 21st November 2010, 11:05   #15
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Why don't car manufacturer's in India understand Indian customers' needs? Today, to buy a diesel automatic, I have to look at what's available in Automatic & not vice versa where i select a car and then choose the AT variant. Secondly, AT should be provided across all trims. The Honda City, Civic & Altis, all have AT in the top end variants only. Why? Is it that only people who can afford to buy Automatics prefer the Top End only? Let the Indian customer get a chance to customize his car according to

Car > Engine (Petrol/Diesel) > Variant(Trim) > Transmission > Further Trim Customization

& take your time for delivery. 3-4 weeks is also acceptable as long as the customer is ready to wait for his choice. The Indian market has changed significantly & its high time car manufacturer's took us seriously. As of now, i am waiting for the Verna CRDi AT test drive & most probably will go for it even though it lacks airbags. Sad.

Last edited by anilkalvani : 21st November 2010 at 11:10.
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