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Old 6th November 2010, 14:31   #1
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Default Which Superb variant? AT/MT, TDi/TSi

Background:
I want to upgrade from my Laura (2007, L&K MT). I tried to find a used car in the Merc/BMW/Audi league with a spec that has "xenons and sunroof with a good backseat" but I was not getting any good deal - the used car prices in Bangalore are pretty steep and there is very little choice. Finally, came across a graphic "german cars and flatbed tow trucks" thread that has really scared me away from Merc/BMW/Audi used car search :-)

Reason for upgrade:
1. Backseat has become important now compared to 2007 when I bought Laura.
2. Though 2007 Laura L&K cost me ~20Lakhs, it doesn't look the money.

Constraints:
It has be to loaded like my current L&K - sunroof, xenons and a better backseat with less than 30Lakhs OTR in B'lore. (I mention sunroof and xenons because these two are usually the highest-trim options given by most manufacturers - given xenons and sunroof, you can be sure that you are buying the fully-loaded trim for a given model)

Options:
Not many, except Superb. (Paassat backseat is not as good I heard, but might give it a shot) I have to decide on the variant/trim. The great thing about Superb is equipment level is same across the variants except for the engine and the transmission, so it is just a matter of choosing the engine and transmission. I am OK with both TSI and TDI engine options, so it boils down to just the transmission in my case.

To DSG or not:
I have already been through this while buying Laura in 2007. I picked MT instead of DSG (the difference was hardly 60K-ish), not to save costs but due to the following concerns about DSG:
1. Unlike all other tech toys (electric seats, sunroof, xenons, climatronic, ICE, turbo, esp, ect.), transmission is too critical for driving - with DSG faults, I am stranded, even risk of accidents. The car will surely be missing for few weeks and you will never feel confident of that car again.
2. Indian driving scene: terribly terribly creeping traffic on up-slope roads, won't the DSG go crazy?
3. Handing over the car to Valet at smaller restaurants, other drivers, etc.?
4. Of course during test drives and as-long-as it works, DSG will be a clear winner - but in the long run?
5. Btw, I can get AWESOME mileage in my Laura PD MT - 21kmpl during airport trips is very common (thanks to the 80KMPH speed limit)

I am very happy with MT but the city commute (70% of my travel) often lets you wonder about DSG. Now suppose I go for a DSG, I have to decide between 7-speed DSG and 6-speed DSG. 7s seems to be state of the art, but also more delicate/vulnerable. 6s seems to be less fun, but a bit more robust.

Another thing that bugs me is why NO ONE buys MT in these segments? Forget about Merc/BMW/Audi, I rarely see any Laura L&K MT (I think they even stopped selling it?). So I wonder if I am missing something basic about DSG :-) Test drive won't help much because DSG will surely be WOW in city traffic.

Sorry for the long post. I am basically asking, which one - MT, 7sDSG or 6sDSG?

Thanks!
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Old 6th November 2010, 15:03   #2
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androdev, If your usage is on higher side and fuel costs are a concern pick up the TDi version. Else the TSi version is good. I have driven the TSi DSG several times, the car left me impressed everytime.

There are lot of complaints on the forum regarding the gearbox failure on the forum. At least 3 cars here had to be replaced by Skoda. The 7 Speed DSG seems problematic, the 6 speed used in Diesel is much more dependable, all the initial niggles have been sorted out.

For VFM nothing else comes close.

Last edited by .anshuman : 6th November 2010 at 15:15. Reason: typo
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Old 6th November 2010, 15:07   #3
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Basically the 7 speed is the newest version of DSG. And uses a dry clutch system instead of a wet clutch like the older 6 speed DSGs. Also the new 7 speed is supposed to be more reliable.

The 1.8tsi DSG Superb is the way to go.
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Old 6th November 2010, 17:03   #4
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I think I will keep it either cheap like TSI MT or go the full distance TDI AT. If I pick TSI MT, there is no confusion because at ~22.5L OTR, there is no better alternative. But if I pick TDI AT for ~27.9L OTR I am too tempted to go for a used BMW-5xxd for ~30L. Btw, these Superb prices do not include SKoda-Shield, etc.
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Old 6th November 2010, 17:51   #5
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I didn't have the impression that the 6-speed DSG is more reliable than the 7-speed DSG. Infact, most problems worldwide were with the 6-speed DSG. However, there seems several reports of issues with 7-speed DSG also.

If peace of mind is very important, I would go for MT.
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Old 6th November 2010, 18:42   #6
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The tsi's low end isnt the greatest and with manual will be a whole different ball game to drive in traffic, compared to your diesel l&k. Take that into consideration.

The tsi a/t makes much more sense and is still a few lacs cheaper than the tdi.
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Old 6th November 2010, 18:45   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancer_rit View Post
I didn't have the impression that the 6-speed DSG is more reliable than the 7-speed DSG. Infact, most problems worldwide were with the 6-speed DSG. However, there seems several reports of issues with 7-speed DSG also.
One advantage of Diesel is that its low end torque requires less gear changes in slow traffic.

Go for the Diesel Superb if you are going to be in the back seat most of the time. MT is good, but tiring in a stop-and-go traffic. The GB and clutch also wear out more for MT under these conditions.
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Old 6th November 2010, 21:16   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
The tsi's low end isnt the greatest and with manual will be a whole different ball game to drive in traffic, compared to your diesel l&k.
Plus the TSi MT engine has a annoying tendency to stall in traffic, maybe the clutch is more aggressively setup. Power below 2000rpm is not that bad but it's only after it the true colors of the engine shine.
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Old 6th November 2010, 22:52   #9
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Im assuming the TSI and the TDI power before the turbo kicks in will be at par if not slightly in the favour of the Petrol. Considering the cash you save on the purchase itself, I say go for the TSI. If it's a lot of trips in crazy traffic, DSG. But till date as much as I love Autos, there is no pleasure equal to slotting a manual smoothly into gear!

Manual TSI gets my vote unless you absolutely need the TDI!! Ps. The passat is a great car too, however i do not belive the DSG is offered. The passat's backseat is more of a 'fit' in my opinion. Very comfortable for average people, not quite as comfortable for healthy ones.
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Old 17th December 2010, 09:49   #10
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Default Re: Which Superb variant? AT/MT, TDi/TSi

Just came across this thread. You managed to decide on the Superb model?
My opinion will be to go with the DSG rather than the MT. Quite an accepted technology worldwide, and treated on par with MT for spirited-driving and FE.

From what know 6-speed DSG (wet clutch) goes to the Diesels and high end petrols (say VW Golf GTI), whereas 7-speed normally goes in 1.2 to 1.8 TSI engines (from VW Polo to Skoda Superb). And I guess paddle shifts are standard across all AT variants of Superb.

Check out some of the threads by Anshuman, Sam etc., to see some good words for the DSG box
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Old 17th December 2010, 14:02   #11
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Default Re: Which Superb variant? AT/MT, TDi/TSi

Hi Androdev. Points which you should consider when opting out for a petrol v/s a idesel variant of the same car.

1) What is your daily running? If its below 200kms, forget the diesel, it just doesnt make sense, keeping in mind the diesel Superb is more expensive to buy, service and maintain.

2) A dsg is a dsg whether its a 6 or 7 speed. Yes there were issues but they have been sorted out by the company, in any case if there is a problem the company will replace the dsg box at no cost provided its in the warranty period.

3) Service costs of the diesel are much higher and the intervals quicker

4) The 1.8 Tsi is a fully loaded creature with awesome drivability and is a great fun car. You would not have so much fun driving more powerful cars. It is agile and nless fuel consumption is your biggest worry then you should go in fo rthe 1.8tsi. Anyways the tsi technology gives great fuel consumption unlike many other 1.8 ltr cars on the road today.

5) Since most of your driving is within the city and i believe Bangalore has terrible traffic, a manual version should not even be considered. The Dsg changes gears faster than a manual change, it is proven and tested. Unless you are the strict stick shift loyalist, it makes no sense at all to get a manual version. Im not even sure if one is in offer for the superb.
The Dsg does not go crazy on slopes...why should it,i haven't understood what you were trying to say.
Valets are no threats. A dsg is like any other automatic and most valets know how to operate an auto tranny. If you feel unsafe, just park the car yourself, problem solved.

Re fuel consumption, let me tell you, unless you are a test driver, driving in test conditions, there may be little to worry. In any case if you are buying a car worthe 20+ lakhs, the minor up in consumption, related to manual and auto boxes should be the least of your concerns.

In a superb you will get a fully loaded car which is fun to drive and be driven in. The rear seat is in a class of its own. I would not even consider any other car, given the vfm status of the Superb. You have your Xenons, your sun roof, your power seats and an unmatched price. Go for the 1.8 Tsi.
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Old 17th December 2010, 14:43   #12
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Default Re: Which Superb variant? AT/MT, TDi/TSi

Sorry, I haven't come back with an update. I am debating between a used car vs new superb. If I don't come across something decent in the used car market, it will be Superb TSI with DSG in the new year.
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Old 5th January 2011, 11:48   #13
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Default Re: Which Superb variant? AT/MT, TDi/TSi

@androdev - Super TSI with DSG is a great choice. Why not a new BMW 320D if you even remotely considered the TDI version . A little stretch and you can be peaceful driving a BMW. My 2 cents !!!
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Old 5th January 2011, 15:25   #14
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Default Re: Which Superb variant? AT/MT, TDi/TSi

Quote:
Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
Hi Androdev. Points which you should consider when opting out for a petrol v/s a idesel variant of the same car.

1) What is your daily running? If its below 200kms, forget the diesel, it just doesnt make sense, keeping in mind the diesel Superb is more expensive to buy, service and maintain.
I Diagree, a Diesel for half the running you have said is good(200km/day= 6000km/month). Let's not forget the much Superior resale value a Diesel enjoys, i just sold my '06 Elantra CRDi for 4.25 Lakhs(done 140k kms), petrols do not have takers for even for 3L. I have owned and sold several other Diesels, Practically they work out cheaper unless you go through those excel sheets predicting imaginary resale value and exorbitant maintenance costs for Diesels.

Yes in the case of Superb the Diesel is priced at a premium too high.

Quote:
2) A dsg is a dsg whether its a 6 or 7 speed. Yes there were issues but they have been sorted out by the company, in any case if there is a problem the company will replace the dsg box at no cost provided its in the warranty period.
I agree because i drive one.

Quote:
3) Service costs of the diesel are much higher and the intervals quicker
Not much in this case, the TSi is not as cheap to service as the Hondas and Toyotas.

Quote:
4) The 1.8 Tsi is a fully loaded creature with awesome drivability and is a great fun car. You would not have so much fun driving more powerful cars. It is agile and nless fuel consumption is your biggest worry then you should go in fo rthe 1.8tsi. Anyways the tsi technology gives great fuel consumption unlike many other 1.8 ltr cars on the road today.
Still the FE is not a match to the Diesel.

Last edited by .anshuman : 5th January 2011 at 15:29.
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Old 5th January 2011, 15:34   #15
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Default Re: Which Superb variant? AT/MT, TDi/TSi

Pick the 1.8 TSi DSG
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