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Old 26th December 2010, 16:47   #16
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Default Re: Toyota Etios VX or Honda Jazz X?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajesh_shenoy View Post

My main considerations are:
- Lower running and maintenance costs
- Interior space including luggage space and fit-and-finish
- Most importantly, lower TCO (total cost of ownership - this includes the resale price say, three years from now).
The Jazz is a fantastic and very well engineered product that's far superior than the 'India-specific' Etios. The fit and finish in the Jazz can rival most C Segment cars and the Etios doesn't even come close. And when it comes to space, the sheer airiness that the Jazz offers is its trump card. The Honda offers more space inside than most sedans, so there is no competition there either. In fact, the luggage area is so well designed that we could fit our family-of-four's luggage for the whole week in the boot. Our Civic struggles to do that!

And my assumption is that the 1.2 90 bhp lump that powers the Jazz is eons ahead of any other petrol engine. Power comes later in the rev band and the fuel economy that it offers is stupendous. I achieved 20 km/l on the highway while doing 90-100 km/h in 5th gear.

BUT.. the only catch is the resale value here, and this is where the Etios would beat the Jazz. But the Jazz should command decent resale figures largely because it's a Honda. So no real worries there. And there are other cars that offer a few goodies like electric ORVMs and Climate-Control, that's missing in the Jazz.

Bottom line: The Jazz gives you the all important premium feel that is absent in the Etios. Of course, you have to pay a premium for that, but it's definitely worth it. It's a wonderfully engineered product, which has lots of space, is very safe, is very practical, powerful, boasts of sprightly performance, looks and feels space-age and most of all, gives you the bullet proof reliability that comes with the Honda badge. Trust me, we own two Hondas and we know! IMO, every Honda is better than a Toyota.

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Originally Posted by camchennai View Post
Jazz I guess would be phased out once Brio is launched.
No. The Jazz will not be phased out, not for the next 5 years at least. Where did you get this from?

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Originally Posted by camchennai View Post

@Sheel - Why will Honda offer two different products with too much price variation at same segment?? If two products are sold in the market then Brio will sure kill Jazz market which is already shading day by day.
Why not? The Brio is positioned a segment lower than the Jazz. It will feature the same engine that powers the Jazz, albeit with one cylinder and presumably 300cc (or so) less as well. The Brio will be priced within the 5-6 lakh price bracket and is aimed squarely at the Micra and at the FIgo; where as the Jazz is positioned a segment higher and is aimed at the Polo, i20, Punto, etc.

Honda wants presence in all the segments and hence, the launch of the Brio is very important for them. But the Jazz will remain in the market and in all probability, might be introduced with a larger motor in a year or so.

Cheers!
Suhaas Shenoy.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 26th December 2010 at 16:52.
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Old 26th December 2010, 19:34   #17
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Default Re: Toyota Etios VX or Honda Jazz X?

@9thSphinx and Suhaas - Nice to see proud owners of Jazz recommend it. Honestly, feels good when existing owners are so satisfied that they become advocates of the car. Of course, each person's priorities while buying a car are different.

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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
IMO, every Honda is better than a Toyota.
@Suhaas - May not be the case for value buyers.

Last edited by Amartya : 27th December 2010 at 00:37. Reason: Fixed the quote tag.
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Old 27th December 2010, 01:51   #18
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Default Re: Toyota Etios VX or Honda Jazz X?

@suhaas307 - How come you are very confident that Jazz will not be phased out for another 5 years?? Already loads of discounts are running for Jazz in less than 2 years of launch. I got this info from one of the dealer.

Jazz is positioned against i10, polo and Punto, Check their price and Jazz price you will know the difference. Jazz if it is introduced with a larger motor also, will not win any hearts since already over priced car will become more pricey due to larger motor.

Since you own two Honda it doesn't mean Honda is better that a Toyota, please check the records before making any statement.

Last edited by camchennai : 27th December 2010 at 01:52.
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Old 27th December 2010, 11:58   #19
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Default Re: Toyota Etios VX or Honda Jazz X?

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Originally Posted by RoadTiger View Post
@9thSphinx and Suhaas - Nice to see proud owners of Jazz recommend it. Honestly, feels good when existing owners are so satisfied that they become advocates of the car. Of course, each person's priorities while buying a car are different.

@Suhaas - May not be the case for value buyers.
Thank you, Road Tiger.

Well, our friend's priorities are similar to mine. He wants space, reliability and inexpensive maintenance. And The Jazz fits the ill perfectly. However, it would not be as good as the Etios when it comes to resale value. That said, it wouldn't be bad either.

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Originally Posted by camchennai View Post
@suhaas307 - How come you are very confident that Jazz will not be phased out for another 5 years?? Already loads of discounts are running for Jazz in less than 2 years of launch. I got this info from one of the dealer.
The Jazz is an international offing from Honda that has always been a part of the plan for our market. Discounts don't prove anything, honestly. Besides, the Jazz is expected to receive a face-lift in the first quarter of 2012, so there are no plans of shelving the product.

I would like to know what dealer gave you this information. No dealer will ever reveal plans of shelving of any product from their stable. Please stop giving wrong information to prospective buyers. Weigh out the pros and cons according to your knowledge, but do not make blatant statements that are rather baseless to begin with.

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Originally Posted by camchennai View Post
Jazz is positioned against i10, polo and Punto, Check their price and Jazz price you will know the difference. Jazz if it is introduced with a larger motor also, will not win any hearts since already over priced car will become more pricey due to larger motor.
Again, wrong. The i10 is a notch below the i20. It is positioned a segment below the i20, which is direct competition to the Jazz. And I would like to know on what basis you've 'decided' that no one will like the Jazz with a larger engine? Just because it's priced higher than its direct competition, doesn't mean no one would ever buy it.

In fact, here on Team-BHP, a 1.5 litre Jazz would have sold a lot better than the current 1.2. People are ready to spend a little extra in order to acquire a hot hatch that the Jazz would be, with a larger engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by camchennai View Post
Since you own two Honda it doesn't mean Honda is better that a Toyota, please check the records before making any statement.
I do own two Hondas. But because I own two Hondas definitely doesn't make it better. Please read my statements carefully again. I never said that. I said that IN MY OPINION, Hondas are better than Toyotas. And last I checked, this is a public forum and I'm entitled to my opinion.

Actually, you must check the records before making any statements, because the Jazz will not be discontinued.

I understand you're a Toyota loyalist and there is nothing wrong with that. In fact, Toyota makes the largest selling cars, the Corolla and the Camry. So they cannot be wrong. But that doesn't mean you put down the competition. If you wish to sell your product, the Etios in your case, do make a good case for it, instead of making a bad case for the competition.

Cheers!
Suhaas
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Old 27th December 2010, 13:17   #20
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Default Re: Toyota Etios VX or Honda Jazz X?

What I don't understand is what do some people have against the Jazz. Yes, it is is overpriced, and yes that is the ONLY reason why you don't see it in numbers. But then, Toyota made the same mistake with the Camry here in India. It's an excellent car but it was way overpriced - which is why you don't get to see a lot of them on the roads. Even with the less numbers there's no way the Camry will be phased out. Neither will the Jazz. The Honda Jazz (aka The Fit in the USA) and the Toyota Camry are both popular and large selling models abroad. Ask any American, and they'll tell you that a Honda is a better engineered product than a Toyota.
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Old 27th December 2010, 13:42   #21
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Default Re: Toyota Etios VX or Honda Jazz X?

@Rajesh: We just finalized Jazz Select after almost testing 7-8 cars. The Jazz X hardly gets any discount rather go for the Select model, the dealers offered 70k discount and we closed at 7.9 lakhs on road of White Honda Jazz in HYD.

Yes Jazz is no Etios, it aint VFM car but its car that you will love for next 5-6 years, its really a class apart and in many ways even better than a City
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Old 27th December 2010, 13:58   #22
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Default Re: Toyota Etios VX or Honda Jazz X?

Etios hatch is expected to follow Etios soon. i.e. if you can wait. Also apart from the interior plastic, Toyota is not much better than the Logan. Jazz makes more sense. Also, do TD the Ford Figo for space, comfort and refinement as an alternative. Figo comes with fun to drive factor built in.

Also my cousin got a Manza the same time as I got the Jazz. Space is good and fit and finish has also improved but nowhere near Honda and Toyota. TCO will be definitely lower.
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Old 27th December 2010, 14:55   #23
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Default Re: Toyota Etios VX or Honda Jazz X?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9thsphinx View Post
.....But then, Toyota made the same mistake with the Camry here in India. It's an excellent car but it was way overpriced - which is why you don't get to see a lot of them on the roads. Even with the less numbers there's no way the Camry will be phased out. ..... Ask any American, and they'll tell you that a Honda is a better engineered product than a Toyota.
Toyota chose the CBU route instead of CKD/SKD, and this is what has priced it out of the market.

I also consider the Jazz to be a fantastic car. In fact some people consider it superior to the City. World car rather than an el cheapo. But it is a hatch instead of a saloon. Honda has a system of a major upgrade every 7 years or so, so yer the Jazz may be in for a major facelift. I understand that Jazz and City share the same pan.

One thing which is worrying me is that Honda and to a certain extent Toyota are in a limited volume market and are offering excellent service. Once they enter the high volume market with the Etios/Lava/Brio the service network may require a major upgrade to handle the volumes.
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Old 27th December 2010, 21:06   #24
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Default Re: Toyota Etios VX or Honda Jazz X?

@All Thanks for all your advise and suggestions. Highly appreciated! This was my first post in Team-BHP, and I confess I only now see the full value of having a forum like this to advise me! It's almost like I have my own panel of expert advisers! We have a truly fantastic and invaluable thing going on here, for sure! Let's keep it going high!

As regards my post, I confess I have got many, many varied points jotted down by my computer here. Believe me, in such a forum, I have just realised that no single opinion or reply is worthless. Everything goes as an input into the decision-making process. And the only way to make the process more useful is by increasing the no. of inputs. Even if you are just repeating an opinion already voiced here, you are actually increasing the no. of "votes" for the opinion. Thus a mature decision-maker will never, never ignore any input. Any conflict in the inputs also goes to show the maturity in your selection of sources of information. And this is the single most striking feature that I have found in Team-BHP: Any thread asking for opinion generates lots of conflicting opinions. Believe me, this is for me the single most valuable indication of a mature discussion forum. I would have hated it if everyone just agreed with one another - I would have probably just stopped using Team-BHP.

Thanks again, all my lovely experts! With your opinions, I cannot possibly go wrong unless I'm a real duffer! Three (and more!) cheers to Team-BHP!
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Old 27th December 2010, 22:54   #25
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Default Re: Toyota Etios VX or Honda Jazz X?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajesh_shenoy View Post
My main considerations are:
- Lower running and maintenance costs
- Interior space including luggage space and fit-and-finish
- Most importantly, lower TCO (total cost of ownership - this includes the resale price say, three years from now).
Since you want to choose between Jazz and Etios, lets talk about these 2 ONLY.

IMO you should go for Jazz, reasons:
1) Its a premium car and you can feel the premium thing inside out.
2) I would doubt Etios's structural rigidity till they decide to launch it in country where NCAP is mandatory.
3) Till the 2nd point is satisfied, I would say Jazz is safer then Etios.
4) Though Etios has bigger boot you can actually fit bigger stuff in Jazz, remember those 'magic seats'?
5) Jazz has more head room.

The only problem with Jazz is its price tag! If you are OK with it, go for it .
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Old 27th December 2010, 23:15   #26
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Default Re: Toyota Etios VX or Honda Jazz X?

I am a proud owner of Honda Jazz X and i can tell you that each time I look-at/drive my vehicle i get a premium feel and that elevates me. I always congratulate myself and thank God who has given me this wonderful opportunity to own this fantastic hatch. This premium feel is missing in any other hatch. Your personality is reflected by the choices / decisions you make.

If you don't own it - u envy it.
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Old 27th December 2010, 23:22   #27
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Default Re: Toyota Etios VX or Honda Jazz X?

hi rajesh,
just to help you make an informed decision i am attaching a pic of my jazz to show you its luggage swallowing ability.
even i was amazed at the amount of luggage i could load up into the boot and this is with the rear seats in place.
rest both cars are pretty much different,
the etios keeps the mind happy, jazz the heart.
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Old 28th December 2010, 00:27   #28
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Default Re: Toyota Etios VX or Honda Jazz X?

I beg to differ with what people here quote that the Jazz is far better than the Etios and it seem more a case of brand bias.

I personally am a fan of Honda as well, and the Jazz also (my wife loves it and wants it next), with great space inside and good build quality. But it is highly overrated and the price it commands is downright unjustifiable. It has several vital elements missing, despite the 'premium' it commands. No Auto Climate Control and no USB (excepting the Jazz X, where u cough up some more money).

Trust me, i am not saying it is bad here. It is a very great car indeed, but not value for money

The Etios, no matter if it is chaep, is a Toyota afterall. Enjoy the car, dont feel too bad about it. It is definitely a good move and something you will probably rave of earlier (touch wood)

Last edited by thedreamcatcher : 28th December 2010 at 00:31.
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Old 28th December 2010, 00:34   #29
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Default Re: Toyota Etios VX or Honda Jazz X?

@Devrishi - I completely agree with your comment that your personality is reflected by the choices/ decisions you make.

Jazz = self-indulgent, doesnt look at price tag when one likes something, heart rules
Etios = practical, grounded, seeks value, head rules

There is no right or wrong here - just what you are comfortable with.
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Old 28th December 2010, 00:54   #30
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Default Re: Toyota Etios VX or Honda Jazz X?

@dreamcatcher
i agree with you on the fact that jazz is not good value for money and if you prefer getting a sedan for your money then the etios does make more sense.

but if you are more concerned with the overall package and if you are not too finicky about a sedan or a hatch, its then that the jazz makes a better buy.

car for car the jazz definitely feels much more premium compared to the etios.
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