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Old 21st March 2011, 16:23   #76
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Default Re: Toyota Etios or Tata Manza?

Manza all the way !
Was expecting something good from Toyota however was quite disappointed by Etios’s interior quality, the seats cushion are so thin, overall does not feel “build to last” at all. The door handle and side panels felt outright down market.
The centrally mounted dashboard with tiny warning lights are difficult to read. Carpet and interior plastic quality are quite a waste, does not even qualify for an OK.
Toyota, seriously this is bad quality, no doubt, wished that Toyota had increased the prices a bit but provide more cheerfully designed interiors and materials. I am sure most of the customers will pay happily for a respected brand.
Yesterday, I suggested my friend to have a look at Etios before booking anything other car, he called me and told something which I felt about the Etios earlier, he rejected the Etios.
Later in the day he went an booked a DeZire.
Seriously, Toyota needs to introduces a better trim level to keep the charts going.
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Old 21st March 2011, 16:28   #77
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Default Re: Toyota Etios or Tata Manza?

There is a comparo between the cars on rediff today.
Looked pro-Toyota to me.

Which to buy? Toyota Etios or Tata Manza - Rediff.com Business
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Old 21st March 2011, 16:55   #78
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Default Re: Toyota Etios or Tata Manza?

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Originally Posted by joybhowmik View Post
Tata service has been historically poor. Even though some think Tata are improving, real question is that if their level of service (quality of fault diagnosis, workmanship, availability of spares and in general doing right by the customer) is sufficiently good for an enthusiast driver or the typical team-bhp profile. The answer my friend is a resounding No.
As a T-BHPian for 4-5Long Years i am happy with the Service received with Tata ***(Concorde Motors) and now i am owning 2 Incredible products of Tata (Safari - 3Yrs & Manza - 1Yrs) and would suggest anyone in the market to go for the Manza as it is a VFM product available.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Torquedo View Post


4) Interiors - Manza quality is pathetic, run your hand over the centre of the steering wheel, it might cut your fingers !!. We buyers are not looking at buying a house here, Etios almost offers the same amount of space, the only thing is that the Manza looks bigger.
Why would you ever put your hands there ??? are you trying to do some circus by holding the steering wheel inthe centre.

The interiors have been improved a lot now and the Manza ELAN looks great and would suggest people to go for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torquedo View Post

My experience with a colleagues Manza, which I often drive, the issues:

1) After close to 10K the power windows have given way.
2) Wheel cover has gone for a spin, nowhere to find.
3) Shifting gears sucks, you have to put in an effort to slot the gears.
4) Clutch seems to be falling apart.
5) Air conditioner - when blown on full speed it howls and cries like an infant but I don't quiet get to know where the air is, the vents might be choked, leave aside cooling.
Been driving the Manza and has clocked 23,000kms and never ever felt all the things mentioned above till date and Torquedo it depend on the driver also how he abuses the vehicle.
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Old 21st March 2011, 23:27   #79
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Default Re: Toyota Etios or Tata Manza?

I have owned Manza for around 10 months now - Quadrajet Aura+ - 23k kms.

Being the finicky customer I am, took a big bet with Manza and had its share of problems initially. But has been absolute joy for last 20k kms. Great ride, excellent comfort, great efficiency (around 17-18 in mostly city w/o AC, 16-17 w a/c, 23+ on hway w/o ac - car shows 25) with fairly good performance to boot. Handles alright for someone like me. Have driven it at 150kmph+ - had no issues whatsoever on Noida-Greater Noida Expressway. Yes, there are gaps, one or two edges are sharp but cannot cut anything except, probably, clay. Yes, plastics are bad in some places but absolute excellence in some others. Yes, panel gaps are there, but not something an entry level sedan buyer can't live with and panel gaps were in Dzires and Swifts when Suzuki was making mess of customers and cars rattled in 15k kms. Spares and maintenance is not expensive, service has been good (if not great). On my request, have got my 20K service done same day after giving car in the noon - need to connect with service managers, just like we do in any other walk of life. Professionalism is lower, and needs monitoring by my driver during service.

Some of the points mentioned by Torquedo - I do not agree with. gearshift quality - it has been appreciated in almost all reviews and is best stick shifter on any Tata and better than most of its peers. BTW, gearbox is C541 from Fiat.

AC does not howl, chills pretty quickly. Never needed full blast anyways.

Wheel cover going for a spin - what's wrong in that. My one wheel went into a pothole and off went wheel cover. That's the only flat tyre I had in my 23K kms of driving.

Clutch for me is as good as new, no issues - though I drive in some very heavy city traffic many times.

All in all, turning out to be great decision to buy Manza as I spend more time with it.

Last edited by 5kmiles : 21st March 2011 at 23:35.
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Old 22nd March 2011, 10:46   #80
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Default Re: Toyota Etios or Tata Manza?

Most of the people on T-BHP praise quality of Fiat cars. Indeed they make good cars. They may have some other issues but cars from them are good for sure. Now, how many people knows that Manza is manufactured in the Fiat plant? Manza has Fiat engines which are appreciated by all, specially the Diesel, Quadrajet. All the car is being made in Fiat Ranjangaon plant, quality has improved drastically. I find interiors very good considering cost of the car. Overall its a very good car over Etios.

Many people keep saying that Toyota lasts forever. I doubt Etios will do the same with there cost cutting. On the other hand, Tata Manza with Fiat engines i guess they will also last for long long time till you are bored with the car
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Old 23rd March 2011, 08:35   #81
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Default Re: Toyota Etios or Tata Manza?

I WOULD STRONGLY WANT TO OPPOSE MANY OF YOU GUYS :-
1) Some said what is wrong with Tata and that there are lakhs of Indica taxi's onroad. My dear friends, it is ONLY because that is the cheapest diesel car in India. NOTHING ELSE. And may be also because Tata gives ample discounts for Taxi purchases,

2) About taxi owners disliking Innova as one of you claim. It is because Toyota usually doesn't go wrong, but if it does it calls for some 'money'. These business people don't like shelling out lumpsome amounts. For Tata niggles keep coming but only smaller amounts are spent.

3) Indica's would obviously run for lakhs of kms. But the question is 'how' they run. Taxi drivers never care for 'niggles'. They are professionals. They just want their car to run. Even for a Bajaj CT 100 (on of the poorest quality bikes in India), even if u dont service it much, it will run. Small tunings and things would do for any vehicle, be it car or bike to run. That is exactly what taxi guys do. Just for the 'sake' of running. thats it. And when it comes to normal customer, there is a huuuugue difference from there. For us, just running won't do. As a normal customer you just can't disregard the niggles. Obvious from the fact a good number of Tata 'private' customers never take a Tata again!

4) And about the repairs - Most taxi owners do repairs in local stations. That is what I have seen over the years. They never visit service stations. These local stations do all 'temporary' adjustments and as I said before the cars are adjusted just to run!

5) After a few thousand kms the Tata engines are bound to show a kind of 'dullness' which of course is not a problem for a taxi driver! But as a normal customer when the liveliness of an engine goes after a mere say 40k's, dude it is serious. That has been a trait of many Tata cars. Though with Manza this point is not valid!

So basically what Iam upto is that, Tata doing well in Taxi market not because their cars are good. Its due to other reasons. So when you are going for a private car, don't fall for such wrong assumptions.

I HAVE SEEN REAL BAD TATA PRIVATE VEHICLES. REAL BAD. Failed a/c, failed electricals and many others.

Quality wise Tata has come a long way though in Manza but still I am really not sure how it will compare with the Japanese.

One point I would like to agree upon though is that when compared to availability of parts, Tata (and Maruti) are far better than many others incl the Toyota. But for that single reason will u buy a Tata????
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Old 23rd March 2011, 10:46   #82
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Default Re: Toyota Etios or Tata Manza?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
I WOULD STRONGLY WANT TO OPPOSE MANY OF YOU GUYS :-
1) Some said what is wrong with Tata and that there are lakhs of Indica taxi's onroad. My dear friends, it is ONLY because that is the cheapest diesel car in India. NOTHING ELSE. And may be also because Tata gives ample discounts for Taxi purchases,

2) About taxi owners disliking Innova as one of you claim. It is because Toyota usually doesn't go wrong, but if it does it calls for some 'money'. These business people don't like shelling out lumpsome amounts. For Tata niggles keep coming but only smaller amounts are spent.

3) Indica's would obviously run for lakhs of kms. But the question is 'how' they run. Taxi drivers never care for 'niggles'. They are professionals. They just want their car to run. Even for a Bajaj CT 100 (on of the poorest quality bikes in India), even if u dont service it much, it will run. Small tunings and things would do for any vehicle, be it car or bike to run. That is exactly what taxi guys do. Just for the 'sake' of running. thats it. And when it comes to normal customer, there is a huuuugue difference from there. For us, just running won't do. As a normal customer you just can't disregard the niggles. Obvious from the fact a good number of Tata 'private' customers never take a Tata again!

4) And about the repairs - Most taxi owners do repairs in local stations. That is what I have seen over the years. They never visit service stations. These local stations do all 'temporary' adjustments and as I said before the cars are adjusted just to run!

5) After a few thousand kms the Tata engines are bound to show a kind of 'dullness' which of course is not a problem for a taxi driver! But as a normal customer when the liveliness of an engine goes after a mere say 40k's, dude it is serious. That has been a trait of many Tata cars. Though with Manza this point is not valid!

So basically what Iam upto is that, Tata doing well in Taxi market not because their cars are good. Its due to other reasons. So when you are going for a private car, don't fall for such wrong assumptions.

I HAVE SEEN REAL BAD TATA PRIVATE VEHICLES. REAL BAD. Failed a/c, failed electricals and many others.

Quality wise Tata has come a long way though in Manza but still I am really not sure how it will compare with the Japanese.

One point I would like to agree upon though is that when compared to availability of parts, Tata (and Maruti) are far better than many others incl the Toyota. But for that single reason will u buy a Tata????
I don't agree with you, Firstly one cannot compare indica with manza, both are entirely different game except the company
2nd how can you say Tata engines are bound to show some dullness after sometime? TATA engines are being used in all their Vehicles and I don't think they can be so bad thet they get "dull" after sometime.
TATA cars I suppose runs the most compared to every other brand as taxies if you consider Indica. Not just because it's cheap to buy but it's also cheap to run. I don't know about banglore but I can tell you that in my place Indica taxies get their cars repaired at TATA service during warranty at least. and off late I have seen so many manza as well as Indigo CS as privately owned. The stigma attached to TATA as taxi is slowly vanishing in higher segment.
My friend has got Manza Elan and did a Delhi calcutta trip and was very happy with the car, he had owned NHC for 5 yrs and accent before. He got FE of 23 with Ac

Manza has proved to be basically reliable as can be known from various post and it's engine has proved to be among the best in world not just India.
A person owning Manza and Etios and driving 1 lac km will in 5 yrs will be better off with manza even if we equate resale values

One thing we have ignored although small is that head lights of Manza are very much better than any other C segment cars except fiesta and which makes it more safe on highways in night. (ask me who has been helpless with his NHC lights trying different means to upgrade and spending on Xenons 2 times in last 4 yrs)
Etios reliability will be tested over time. We have forgotten that Etios is a brand new product and so it's reliability can only be proved with time unlike every other toyota product which were already in other markets before coming to India.
For me it's Manza and that also Elan over etios, wonderful car,except ugly backside
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Old 23rd March 2011, 11:21   #83
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Default Re: Toyota Etios or Tata Manza?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
I WOULD STRONGLY WANT TO OPPOSE MANY OF YOU GUYS :-

I HAVE SEEN REAL BAD TATA PRIVATE VEHICLES. REAL BAD. Failed a/c, failed electricals and many others.
Sam,These things can and does happen to other companies too. I remember reading your issues with Swift wind screen leaking and how much of "fight" you had with service centers. Just because of your bad windscreen do you stopped recommending Maruti to people?. It doesnt mean that all MARUTI's and HYUNDAI's are bad right?. Plus, isn't it better to give TATA the "benefit of doubt" when you don't have first hand experience with TATA recently?

I am having a trouble free and good if not better service experience with TATA for the last 15 months. Each of us have different needs and different budget. I prefer a VFM car that can perfom with out much trouble over a branded car any day.
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Old 23rd March 2011, 12:03   #84
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Default Re: Toyota Etios or Tata Manza?

@sam_sant2005

I see that most of the points you have made is directly countering what I said in a previous post. So here are my replies.

1. If you read my post, I mentioned that the operator I referred to always got things checked out at TASCs only as far as possible.

2. You say Toyotas rarely go wrong. Other than the stellar reputation of Toyota to go by, I dont see what proof we have of saying Tatas go wrong a lot either. All his Innovas rattle as badly as his Indicas, though I have to say they probably start rattling a lot later in their lives than the Tatas. But here again cant compare a Manza to an Indica.

3. I have seen most of his Indicas, ones that have racked up more than 2lakh on the odos, still comfortably cruising at more than a 100kph. So I dont really know what you mean by "dullness".

4. As for coming up on a Tata Indica in really bad condition more regularly, there is a pretty simple reason to this. There are a lot more Tata Indicas around, and another reason you may want to take up, a lot of those Indicas tend to stick around for very long periods of time. I have seen my share of really rattly old Innovas too.

As for why I chose to ignore the fact that the Indicas success is due to a lack of competition is simple. If the Indica is actually that bad a product which is being bought because of a lack of choice, who has stopped any automobile manufacturer from going ahead and competing with it. I am sure its not a tough job for anybody to take on the Indica. I think a big reason is that the Indica is a great product with superbly low life-cycle costs in the taxi market. No other car can operate for more than 3lakh kms while coming in for as low cost as an Indica, and to match that life-cycle cost is actually not that easy.

The point that I wanted to make with that post was that Tata know how to make a car that will last really really long and with less overall maintainance costs.
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Old 23rd March 2011, 12:04   #85
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Default Re: Toyota Etios or Tata Manza?

Guys,

I was never against Manza. Manza might be far too different from older tata cars. I just mean that the 'history' of Tata cars is bad atleast for many. Yeh i had issue with my swift. but that was one odd case. My aunt recently got a Sumo and its a/c failed when I was driving it! Dont tell me Tata is better. A new Safari i travelled recently never inspirede quality. Manza yes, I too liked it. But to me its too early to trust it. Need 2-3 yrs or more. As of now we can trust a Etios over a Manza. That is just what I intend.

I am telling this bcoz just based on a few months exp with Manza I dont want someone to fall for a Tata car just like that. Things should be clear. Going for Tata should be a real thought out decision to me.
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Old 23rd March 2011, 12:22   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
I WOULD STRONGLY WANT TO OPPOSE MANY OF YOU GUYS :-
1) Some said what is wrong with Tata and that there are lakhs of Indica taxi's onroad. My dear friends, it is ONLY because that is the cheapest diesel car in India. NOTHING ELSE. And may be also because Tata gives ample discounts for Taxi purchases,


5) After a few thousand kms the Tata engines are bound to show a kind of 'dullness' which of course is not a problem for a taxi driver! But as a normal customer when the liveliness of an engine goes after a mere say 40k's, dude it is serious. That has been a trait of many Tata cars. Though with Manza this point is not valid!

So basically what Iam upto is that, Tata doing well in Taxi market not because their cars are good. Its due to other reasons. So when you are going for a private car, don't fall for such wrong assumptions.

1. I dont think Tata or any manufacturer for that matter would shower heavy discounts for cars sold as taxis unless say a fleet like MERU which can order hundreds of cars.
AFAIK, most taxi owners have a single car.

5.
Manza doesnt use Tata engines.Most petrol and diesel engines are provided by FIAT.
So, even if your claim of dullness is true, i'd be really surprised if the Manza engines start showing it just because the badge it sports is different.
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Old 23rd March 2011, 12:49   #87
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Default Re: Toyota Etios or Tata Manza?

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Originally Posted by athul_S View Post
1. I dont think Tata or any manufacturer for that matter would shower heavy discounts for cars sold as taxis unless say a fleet like MERU which can order hundreds of cars.
AFAIK, most taxi owners have a single car.

5.
Manza doesnt use Tata engines.Most petrol and diesel engines are provided by FIAT.
So, even if your claim of dullness is true, i'd be really surprised if the Manza engines start showing it just because the badge it sports is different.
Tata has discounts for some of their vehicles like Indica, Sumo etc. In short they 'promote' taxi sales for these models. Forunately they havent done that with Vista/Mazna as yet. My aunt who took a Sumo (for pvt use), regd it as a Taxi to get Tata discount as well as Tax discount (both together was substantial!!). If you go ask a dealer about the Taxi prices of Indica, the prices are slightly different from normal prices. They have separate sheet for it!

And my '5th' point I hope u dint read it clearly. I had specifically said that point is not valid for Manza!
And talking of fiat engine on Tata. Hope you know the MPFi SAFFIRE engine on Indica was from the fiat stable. Leave aside the engine, I know those cars had hell lot of issues.


Leave all those.
THIS QUESTION IS FOR THE 2-3 THREAD POSTERS ABOVE:
WHY DOES TATA VEHICLES HAVE LOW RESALE VALUE?

The day Tata cars start having GOOD RESALE VALUE (to me that is the biggest evidence of a good car/brand), I would recommend Tata. As of now Tata cars are not adviced for a second hand buy. Manza, as I again re-emphasize, needs a little more time. Tata has done a great job for Manza, and is doing a great job with modification over feedbacks too. Thats really a good thing. And I do agree theres no match for a Diesel Manza in the segment at that price. Dzire cannot be even classified as a sedan!

But though, for petrol, it is the Etios atleast for now. That is all I meant. Scroll back some pages and see what GTO himself had to say about this!!! trust him if not me!

Last edited by GTO : 25th March 2011 at 19:59. Reason: Removing 1st line. Let's not get rude in here. Mutual respect is most important on Team-BHP
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Old 23rd March 2011, 12:55   #88
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Default Re: Toyota Etios or Tata Manza?

Toyota Etios and Tata Manza both excel in their own way. Positive points for Etios are its build quality, Toyota reliability, new interiors although reduced in plastic quality but better than Maruti. Diesel variant is supposed to come in December 2011. The power to weight ratio is high hence good fuel efficiency. Etios is designed and built to be a true sedan where as the Manza derived from its hatch Vista. Etios diesel can be compared only when it is launched. Toyota service is OK better than Tata. In near future we should observe how this car reports during the time line. I am not aware of Toyota's After Sales Service and the parts availability in case of any failures. Tata surely hits a score over this!

Manza is the best car from Tata stable. Yet every car has pros and cons. Manza has a benifit of space equivalent to Mercedes-Benz. Panel gaps are seen, interiors are bit cheaper than Etios. Manza resembles a statesman's car. A huge boot and the seating comfort is better than Etios. This is truly a value for money car. It has almost everything. Most important is the FIAT's world's best multijet diesel engine (Tata calls it as a Quadrajet 90) adds to more refinement. Tata's After Sales service is a bit concern. They have everything at their service but lack of proper management over the customer reported issues. Tata needs to fine tune their After Sales Service.

Last edited by yogeshnaik : 23rd March 2011 at 13:05.
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Old 23rd March 2011, 13:17   #89
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Default Re: Toyota Etios or Tata Manza?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
I WOULD STRONGLY WANT TO OPPOSE MANY OF YOU GUYS :-
1) Some said what is wrong with Tata and that there are lakhs of Indica taxi's onroad. My dear friends, it is ONLY because that is the cheapest diesel car in India. NOTHING ELSE. And may be also because Tata gives ample discounts for Taxi purchases,

2) About taxi owners disliking Innova as one of you claim. It is because Toyota usually doesn't go wrong, but if it does it calls for some 'money'. These business people don't like shelling out lumpsome amounts. For Tata niggles keep coming but only smaller amounts are spent.

3) Indica's would obviously run for lakhs of kms. But the question is 'how' they run. Taxi drivers never care for 'niggles'. They are professionals. They just want their car to run. Even for a Bajaj CT 100 (on of the poorest quality bikes in India), even if u dont service it much, it will run. Small tunings and things would do for any vehicle, be it car or bike to run. That is exactly what taxi guys do. Just for the 'sake' of running. thats it. And when it comes to normal customer, there is a huuuugue difference from there. For us, just running won't do. As a normal customer you just can't disregard the niggles. Obvious from the fact a good number of Tata 'private' customers never take a Tata again!

4) And about the repairs - Most taxi owners do repairs in local stations. That is what I have seen over the years. They never visit service stations. These local stations do all 'temporary' adjustments and as I said before the cars are adjusted just to run!

5) After a few thousand kms the Tata engines are bound to show a kind of 'dullness' which of course is not a problem for a taxi driver! But as a normal customer when the liveliness of an engine goes after a mere say 40k's, dude it is serious. That has been a trait of many Tata cars. Though with Manza this point is not valid!

So basically what Iam upto is that, Tata doing well in Taxi market not because their cars are good. Its due to other reasons. So when you are going for a private car, don't fall for such wrong assumptions.

I HAVE SEEN REAL BAD TATA PRIVATE VEHICLES. REAL BAD. Failed a/c, failed electricals and many others.

Quality wise Tata has come a long way though in Manza but still I am really not sure how it will compare with the Japanese.

One point I would like to agree upon though is that when compared to availability of parts, Tata (and Maruti) are far better than many others incl the Toyota. But for that single reason will u buy a Tata????


Hi Sam,
Here's my two cents:

If someone in their mid-twenties were to choose their car i'd refrain from suggesting a Vista. Reasons, the boot space is lesser in comparison and the driving feel is not what he/she would be looking for. On the other hand if there is someone who needs a car to chauffeur their parents around or a family that is more ride comfort oriented, i'd fully support their decision to choose the Vista or the brilliantly packaged Manza. Reason being the excellent comfort, vast boot-space and a ride-quality that's missing in many a higher segment car.

It's similar as someone looking to choose between the Skoda Superb and a Mercedes. Same money, but different perspectives on motoring altogether. But that does not go on and stop anyone from buying a Mercedes-Benz or the Superb for that matter. At the end of the day, its the buyers money and it's their decision that's final.

The rest of us are merely proffering our opinions and solutions, based upon our own perceptions and experience.

Cheers
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Old 23rd March 2011, 14:56   #90
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Angry Re: Toyota Etios or Tata Manza?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nirmaljusdoit View Post
While the Manza has all the bells & whistles & the Etios looks bare, the strength of Toyota engineering is enough to keep you at peace !

Most of the TATA products lack finesse & build quality, with several minor niggles.

Years from now when you consider the peace of mind, build quality & reliability, you will not regret your decision of buying a Toyota vehicle !
I think it is inappropriate to just blindly praise a brand without looking at the product. No doubt that Toyota has brought amazing cars in India, but they have also faltered on some. Remember the old Corolla or Camry? Etios is just good for the engine and nothing else. You can compare the interiors with a Contessa or a Maruti Esteem.

Tata on the other hand has evolved into an international brand with solid built cars and handy features. Try driving a Manza on a pot-holed street and feel the comfort. I myself own a Tata (Vista Quadrajet) and after driving 17,000 kms in 15 months, am all praises for it. Moreover, every Tata car is 100 percent VFM. Think again.
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