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Old 23rd March 2011, 15:32   #91
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Default Re: Toyota Etios or Tata Manza?

I think we should compare apples to apples. Praising Etios just because its from Toyota is not good. Etios is not in the league of Innova, Corolla etc. This is because it is built to a price. The base variant costs under 5 lakhs. How can Toyota make the car so cheap without a compromise? Or is Toyota doing a favour by selling it at loss?

Product on product, both Manza and Toyota tick quiet a few boxes.
Coming to Service aspect, Toyota till date does not have the volumes as that of Tata. So it still needs to be seen how the service centres behave once they start receiving around 50 cars a day.
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Old 23rd March 2011, 15:54   #92
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Default Re: Toyota Etios or Tata Manza?

I own a 2007 Indica petrol and all i can say is nothing can beat its VFM quotient.so far my experience has been very good. People blindly stick to brand value. i.e Maruti,Honda and toyota.Nothing else appeals to them.

My friend who owns Dzire always makes fun of me for buying Indica but when i ask him to drive the car once or just sit in it to check the seating comfort.He never bothers.He is just plainly biased.He has never ridden a Tata vehicle but still goes on bad mouthing Tata products. Well he has paid some 7 lakhs for his dzire and it has to be good obviously and i paid just 3lakhs for my indica and definitely i will be loosing out on certain features but VFM is where Tata scores.
Will i buy a Tata product again?
2.Seating comfort/space

1.I hate all Tata steerings.
2.bad image

So take your pick.
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Old 23rd March 2011, 16:01   #93
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Default Re: Toyota Etios or Tata Manza?

AFAIK, Plastic Quality and Panel Gaps in Etios are way below Toyota standards. On the other hand, Manza refresh launched recently with black and beige interiors has improved significantly on what was already the best product from Tata (except ARIA, of course!).

The interesting thing would be to actually have physical verification of both cars side-by-side with some pictures to actually gauge whether Tata improvements are good enough for a low-range Toyota or has Toyota stooped below its quality image to produce a VFM car ending up having a car not even competitive to Indian manufacturers.

After all, most of the discussions here on this thread relate to perceived brand value of respective makers and not actually the vehicles which skews our verdict irrelevant.
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Old 23rd March 2011, 16:28   #94
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Default Re: Toyota Etios or Tata Manza?

A Tata v/s a Toyota. Hmm, this would have been a no brainer a few years back, but now that we are talking about the Manza v/s a new toyota product that has been developed only for the Indian market, the situation is a lot different.

Personally, badge value is not one of the top requirements on my list when looking for a car, and hence from this perspective, the Manza and Etios are playing on level ground in this department.

I have only sat in and haven't driven the Etios, but have heard that it has a nice torquey engine, while the 1.4 FIRE is more peaky (fun after 3500 rpm). Barring the engine, i think the Manza is a much more complete car.

The Etios' interiors are horrible and i hate the way the dials are designed. To me the speedo looks like these old radios with their frequencies spread out in the same fashion.

I cannot comment on the handling and suspension, since i haven't driven the Etios, but coming to the service part, i completely agree with some comments above that talk about Toyota's lack of experience in servicing a mass market vehicle. Toyota's quality for the Etios is yet to be proved, considering the fact that this vehicle has been built keeping costs in mind.

Tata service centers are not great, but it varies from service center to service center. In some cities/areas the local TASS maybe better than the Toyota dealer there.

At the end of the day, if one can stand the small niggles with Tata cars and if 'Brand Value/Image' is not high on the priority list, its the Manza all the way. It just feels so much better, or should i say 'complete'!

Last edited by fiat_tarun : 23rd March 2011 at 16:30.
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Old 23rd March 2011, 17:00   #95
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Default Re: Toyota Etios or Tata Manza?

I think Etios is worth buying. No particular bias against TATA. but you can always have after fitting done to Etios to make it at par with Manza.
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Old 23rd March 2011, 19:46   #96
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Default Re: Toyota Etios or Tata Manza?

If it boils down to Tata vs Toyota, would any day prefer the Toyota. But when it narrows down to the products on hand in this case, it needs more introspection.

Etios is a car made only for the Indian market , unlike other cars from their stable. Its interiors are nothing much to write home about either. IMHO Manza makes more sense.
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Old 23rd March 2011, 23:39   #97
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Default Re: Toyota Etios or Tata Manza?

Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
Tata has discounts for some of their vehicles like Indica, Sumo etc. In short they 'promote' taxi sales for these models. Forunately they havent done that with Vista/Mazna as yet. My aunt who took a Sumo (for pvt use), regd it as a Taxi to get Tata discount as well as Tax discount (both together was substantial!!). If you go ask a dealer about the Taxi prices of Indica, the prices are slightly different from normal prices. They have separate sheet for it!
Agree, TM is deliberately trying to get rid of the Taxi tag associated with its brand. They classified some of their passenger vehicles as for commerical use and package and market accordingly. Here may be Indica is for commercial use, Indica Vista for private use. Venture is for commerical use. It does not mean that private party cannot buy a commerical vehicle, but the target market is different
I have a friend who rent cars to corporates in a Metro. He got more than 100 cars and got his own garage/workshop. 80% of his vehicles are Tata and few Logans. All other brands consists of 20% (Some companies/people ask for specific brand, hence he keep other brands like Maruthi also). He do not keep the cars for more than 5 years. According to him, Tata cars give him more profit than other makes in 5 years, even after considering the low resale value of the vehicle after 5 years. I asked him once, whether Tata cars are better than the other brands he keep, his answer was a big "no", but he keep buying them for his business.
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Old 24th March 2011, 00:29   #98
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Default Re: Toyota Etios or Tata Manza?

Gautam ... hope we all have not aggravated your confusion. Please update us on your choice.
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Old 24th March 2011, 10:01   #99
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Originally Posted by joybhowmik View Post
After all is said and done, consider this- you need to 'live' with the Service for the next 5 years.
Toyota is well known for good service, Tata service has been historically poor. Even though some think Tata are improving, real question is that if their level of service (quality of fault diagnosis, workmanship, availability of spares and in general doing right by the customer) is sufficiently good for an enthusiast driver or the typical team-bhp profile. The answer my friend is a resounding No.
Dear all, I owned a Marina for about three years and put on 40000 km prior to getting a Fiat Linea.
1. At Concorde Chennai, for my Marina, I did not have any problem with servicing. The car used to be picked up from residence and dropped back after service, when I wanted that way.
2. The service engineer, mechanics and front end guys were friendly.
3. When I was not at home for a long time, due to rat menace, AC was giving problem. I fact a rat entered the blower and died there (as found by mechanics later). My wife called up Concorde and explained that she can not send it all the way and the car was smelling. Concorde sent two mechanics home got it repaired at very minimal cost.
4. Once or twice, prior to taking a long drive I went to them without appointment to check out the car. They, not only did promptly, but also gave proper advice and did the needful immediately with out any reservation (once a wheel bearing had to be renewed. On other occasions, clean air filter, check/top up fluids).
5. In fact, my good experience with Tata started right from the booking. I wanted a Tata Indigo marina tomato red colour Lx, which was rare (in 2006 April) , that too through CSD. This The sales man promised, if I want it I will get it. They did not try to convince me that it is not available or take something else. Mind you, from CSD customer the dealer does not get any margin. Despite that, the went out of the way to arrange for it.

My personal experience with Tata was very good. Not without issues but there is always some one in the set up with a smile comes forward to solve it. What I find is that many people who comment on Tata's after sales service are opinionated without owing having owned Tata product. For some, good service means convent English, welcome coffee and a fat bill. Sorry, Tanuka San, you will not get them in Tata.

Originally Posted by fiat_tarun View Post

The Etios' interiors are horrible and i hate the way the dials are designed. To me the speedo looks like these old radios with their frequencies spread out in the same fashion.

Good comparison. I also felt the dial looked more like Murphy three band valve radio of 1960's.

Last edited by Dippy : 24th March 2011 at 20:54. Reason: Back to back posts. Please use the multi quote option instead of creating back to back posts. Thanks
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Old 24th March 2011, 13:08   #100
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Default Re: Toyota Etios or Tata Manza?

Hey guys! Been following the responses advidly though haven't been able to respond the past few days.

@pavan kadam, arun1100 - wow! you guys are true motor-heads to take time out from work to TD the cars enjoyed reading your comparo and thanks much for posting the pics. The Elan really does look good from the inside. Need to see it in flesh.

@ yogeshnaik Mostly agree with your comparo, except that I felt the Manza interiors were superior to Etios rather than cheaper.

Originally Posted by Kartik Krishnan View Post
if there is someone who needs a car to chauffeur their parents around or a family that is more ride comfort oriented, i'd fully support their decision to choose the Vista or the brilliantly packaged Manza. Reason being the excellent comfort, vast boot-space and a ride-quality that's missing in many a higher segment car.
It's similar as someone looking to choose between the Skoda Superb and a Mercedes. Same money, but different perspectives on motoring altogether.
Couldn't agree more. But what if Skoda had scrimped on even basic conveniences like e-OVRMs or seat height adjust and given really cheap interiors? w.r.t Vista - if only it had a functional boot, might have gone with it - a comfortable 5-seater for the price of a hatch!

Originally Posted by RS_DEL View Post
If it is the trade off between the Etios FTD and and Manza VFM - this on the face of it is subjective. I would try to find out (a) how many enhancements are possible to bring Etios interior to Manza levels with out impacting warranty and (b) cost of such aftermarket upgrades.
I alway liked an objective approach! Back of the envelope, guess a 40-50K investment could make the Etios interiors quite rich and liveable. This would include spending on plusher seat covers with extra padding, contouring, under-thigh (esp for rear seats), decent ICE, rear reading lamps, 3M coating, floor/boot mats and faux-wood paneling. I saw a showroom Etios with faux wood on steering wheel and arm-rests - made a HUGE difference to the interiors.
But what can one do about the important things like seat hieght adjust, e-OVRMs and pre-tensioners+load limiters on seatbelts? Is it possible / practical to retro-fit these into a car? I do wish that Toyota had bothered to provide these in the top-end instead of silly cosmetic changes.

Virtually every second Tata-related thread has some debate about Tata QC and A$$. Recent experience's seem to suggest TML has got the A$$ act together. OTOH, its tough for a ill-treated customer to forget and trust the brand again. I haven't considered A$$ as a criteria for my decision due to recent upward trend in TML reviews + my own sales experience which suggests that Tata dealers probably care much more about a Manza customer than Toyota for an Etios customer.

Wasn't able to do the back-to-back TD of Etios and Manza last weekend due to work commitments + Holi. Hope to do that this weekend.
That said, I am leaning in favour of Etios, reasoning being as follows: Manza will coddle the passengers better than Etios, but as a driver I will probably enjoy the Etios more. Fun-Quotient aside, the Etios felt easier, stabler and more predictable to drive than Manza (despite the EPS factor). Not that Manza isn't a good drive, but relatively Etios felt more fun and effortless.

Secondly, while I myself don't place store in a brand, most of my family seems to be strongly in favour of Toyota.

IMHO, the Manza is a better buy from pure VFM perspective. If you're going to be chauffeur-driven or are looking at diesel, the Manza is a no-brainer. I'm going to reserve final judgement until I TD the Elan, but seems that Etios, despite its compromises, might just be it.
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Old 24th March 2011, 15:46   #101
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Default Re: Toyota Etios or Tata Manza?

@ Gautam - I would suggest you to think of a diesel car at the current fuel prices. Diesel is almost 33% cheaper than petrol.

Looks at your average annual useage and do the maths. Diesel will save about Rs. 2500/- per 1000 Km. Balance with the extra EMI you are paying for it. This will help you in seeing if diesel or petrol.
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Old 24th March 2011, 18:20   #102
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Default Re: Toyota Etios or Tata Manza?

Gautam, hope you also had a peek at the NDTV's comparative review between Etios, DZire and Manza (not Elan) which was posted quite sometime ago, prob 3 months back and
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Old 25th March 2011, 19:52   #103
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Default Re: Toyota Etios or Tata Manza?

Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
I just mean that the 'history' of Tata cars is bad atleast for many.
I've had a very terrible experience with my Indigo. The problems were bad enough, but the car has also aged so much faster. My Honda City felt better at 73,000 kms than the Indigo at 35,000 kms.

That said, I'd be willing to give the Manza diesel a shot. Reason? It's got a Fiat engine & drivetrain. Most of my Indigo problems revolved around the engine & electricals. Hopefully, Fiat mechanicals have solved that. While interior quality still had hits & misses, the Manza is overall a giant leap ahead of the Indigo.

Originally Posted by MCR View Post
Praising Etios just because its from Toyota is not good. Etios is not in the league of Innova, Corolla etc.
Are the Dzire & Manza in the league of the Innova & Corolla? I think not.

Originally Posted by fiat_tarun View Post
The Etios' interiors are horrible and i hate the way the dials are designed.
I don't like the center-aligned arrangement of the meters, nor the actual dials. However, I will also add that, after spending 2 days in the Etios, I didn't have a problem with the interiors. They aren't a deal breaker at all. Every car has its pros & cons. And the Etios has class-leading performance, space (nearly there with the Manza) and the best suspension set up (ride & handling balance) in the segment. To me, that's more important than the dials or their placement.
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Old 26th March 2011, 13:05   #104
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Default Re: Toyota Etios or Tata Manza?

from someone who owns a manza.. trust me go for the toyota! dont even think!
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Old 26th March 2011, 13:38   #105
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Default Re: Toyota Etios or Tata Manza?

Originally Posted by sajo View Post
My personal ownership experience with a Tata petrol sedan for the past 7 years brings me to the following conclusion :
Tata cars do not age well.
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I've had a very terrible experience with my Indigo. The problems were bad enough, but the car has also aged so much faster.

That about sums up the experiences of existing Tata owners like me.(I am going to flamed for this,I think). Though with the launch of the Manza/Vista refresh my opinion has changed from 100% no to Tata to about 70% no Tata.

So..will I buy the Manza ? No.
But...at the rate at which they are going, will I buy the Manza's replacement? Hell yeah!
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