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Old 23rd May 2011, 20:44   #136
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

I have not sat or seen the Fluidic Verna in person, but my mother visited the Hyundai showroom recently and even took a backseat test of the Verna and she was not too impressed with it ~ So that's her opinion.

I had gone with her to the Toyota showroom to check out the Altis, we were not impressed with that either. The Etios was there, i think the dashboard quality was decent. The steering felt really special to grip and hold ~ almost like Toyota engineers were instructed that this is where the Customer is going to have maximum contact make it feel special.
The boot space was outstanding. Seating was reasonably good.
But what i did not like are the doors. They felt very light and cheap, and made horrible sounds while opening and closing. No nothing was wrong with the car, it's just that the build quality around the doors is really poor.
But overall it's not a bad option, especially when you consider Toyota's reliability and after sales service. Yes the Etios still has to prove itself and we shall come to know if these facts hold true with the Etios.

I pretty much think this leaves you with the Verito or my recommendation the Magnum.

Somehow i feel the Magnum will suit your needs better, and give you that nice big car feel. the top of the line is around 10 L in Pune. Worth stretching for.
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Old 23rd May 2011, 22:04   #137
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
The tuning box is something that skipped my mind.
* Would it affect warranty?
* Can it be easily removed when the vehicle is sent for service?
* What are the costs involved?
* Any flip side to installing a tuning box?
*No way it will void warranty unless you forget to unplug it before service.
*They claim it is a 5 min job. I would not bother even if it was a 15 min one. You only have to do it once a year.
*Look for Pete's powerbox prices on their website . Should be close to 35K.
*And for the last question I will be answering it later.
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Old 23rd May 2011, 23:23   #138
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
The Logan Cruze comparison seems interesting. What kind or roads and traffic are we talking here?
I do not have the Logan but have the Cruze. I used to have the GTX before the Cruze and still miss the only original petrol hot hatch. Well by twisties I mean the hill climb and descends we have in Kerala which is congested with traffic where its near impossible to shake off a Logan which has good torque low down in the rpm band. Highway with sparse traffic which is a rarity now a days in Kerala is where the Cruze comes into its own. For twisties I recommend the GTX,Fiesta S and turbo petrol engined Skoda which are the three vehicles who do not have competition as yet. For the price absolutely nothing can touch the GTX though not even my present car the Cruze.
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Old 24th May 2011, 19:04   #139
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

All that a powerbox does is increase the fuel amount by cheating the ECU.
So what happens is a map is created (something like this)
For 20% throttle it will inject fuel corresponding to 25%
for 50% lets say 60%
for 85% lets say 100%
for 100% lets say 120%

So in case you are driving with max throttle below 85% there is no effect of the powerbox.

In case you are frequently driving in the 85-100% zone you will encounter the following problems.
1) Smoke from exhaust
2) Higher load on engine crankshaft,conrod and transmission. Clutch will wear out faster etc. But the difference is too little to get noticed.
3) Higher combustion temperature may have adverse effect on Valves head etc. But all engines are tested for durability at max RPM and full load for hundreds of hours. Practically you never put your car in such a situation. So personally I dont see any harm done with sporadic pedal to metal driving even with a powerbox.

If you plan on keeping the car for less than 8 years, powerbox will not create any issue with reliability. In fact engines are generally over-designed and can easily handle abuse. And normal driving utilise only 30-40% of car's potential.

Bottom line - You can go for it.
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Old 24th May 2011, 23:45   #140
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
Thanks mate.


The Cruze has a coupe like styling. Often makes the cabin less spacious. Price is a factor.

Will check the new Verna, but from what I notice, it is unlikely to have suitable headroom at the back. Also may not be too good a handler. The Fiesta may not be any better on space. Let's see how it pans out.
Fiesta is a pretty narrow car comparing to Optra buddy, and as per the new fiesta review in youtube, its also a narrow car. So if space, power and diesel is your concern then, even i am thinking what to suggest you.... i think you have to decide between
1. Vento
2. Verna
3. New Fiesta
4. Optra - Preworshipped diesel or new one in diesel
5. Linea
6. Manza -

But i really would'nt recommend you buying Optra now unless until you are very much thrilled with the car. If you really like it just go for it and dont get too much confused, dont care what other say, if you are happy with it will do, you are buying the car for you and not for what others say. And i dont feel optra looks dated comparing cars like etios, micra, manza, logans,skoda, elantra, old verna, Accent. So you will be still quite up the list just below few Honda, Hyndai and Lineas..
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Old 26th May 2011, 00:55   #141
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Friends,

It's a different thing to advise vs buying.
I had been advising so far but have joined the club - need to pick up a diesel vehicle; petrol's killing & cng is a pain (if i had to step out for my gas then why live in india! - kidding ).

Pls note: I have a petrol Santro and intend to retain it for city chores.
Budget: Under 10. Diesel must. SUV or 3 box.
Quite cabin, comfortable ride (no stiff suspension neither boat rides), decent mileage, safety (ABS must with crumple zones - wary of airbag {read electrical issues} on european cars) as this will be long distance.

Optra (old) / Verito (orphaned and adopted child running as cabs) / Manza (niggles/image factor) / SX4 (refinement) / Verna (too pricey for a Korean car- no offence but theres still time before they can charge premium) / Fiesta (Ford is a non-no considering their service situation and spares having seen one in the family) - ruled out.

SUV (as I have a small car) was on my mind but not sure if Safari (niggles again) or Scorpio (no offence to anyone but is a refined tractor and I may be wrong but thats my opinion) are any good?

Vento seems to be my only option BUT hey I thought every car maker was dying to enter the India market! Thats the only choice I have? What about service & repair experiences?

Or should I wait for the '11 swift diesel, sell my santro and save lots of money to book one more flat!?

Above may seem like incoherent blabbering but is a serious dilemma as I cant see one product which doesnt have a serious no-go! Am I the only one?

Bring it on!
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Old 26th May 2011, 15:13   #142
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

I have been looking for a Diesel AT and waiting for the new Verna. Pricing of the AT, being only on top of SX(O) is too high for my budget. Is it worthwhile to consider Verna Transform AT at this time (of course, it may not be available, I am not sure), or better to wait for some more time? I have been on the lookout for an year already, and didnt expect the pricing to be so high for the Verna AT.
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Old 26th May 2011, 22:05   #143
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Well i'm going through the same dilemma for past 2 months.

I took test drives of Vento , New Verna but still I find optra Magnum LS to be better. Its a segment higher car with better space and powerful engine.
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Old 26th May 2011, 23:08   #144
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdsaab View Post
I have not sat or seen the Fluidic Verna in person, but my mother visited the Hyundai showroom recently and even took a backseat test of the Verna and she was not too impressed with it ~ So that's her opinion.
I too have only seen the Verna. Looks really good from the back. From the front, it was pretty ordinary. The rear seat seems uncomfortable to be in; even more so for taller people. The pull factor towards the Verna may be it's FE. Will reserve further comments till I TD it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdsaab View Post
I had gone with her to the Toyota showroom to check out the Altis, we were not impressed with that either.
I like the Altis, though it is out of my budget and the Diesel has too small an engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdsaab View Post
The Etios was there, i think the dashboard quality was decent.
The Etios seems to be a very practical vehicle, but has almost zero appeal for me. Would pick the Manza over it any day. Also don't like the speedo etc being in the centre, which is very poor design IMHO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdsaab View Post
I pretty much think this leaves you with the Verito or my recommendation the Magnum.

Somehow i feel the Magnum will suit your needs better, and give you that nice big car feel. the top of the line is around 10 L in Pune. Worth stretching for.
Again, prefer the Manza to the Verito. Leaves me with the Manza and the Optra. When the time comes, the decision may be dependent on Vitamin M!

Quote:
Originally Posted by krish82 View Post
Fiesta is a pretty narrow car comparing to Optra buddy, and as per the new fiesta review in youtube, its also a narrow car. So if space, power and diesel is your concern then, even i am thinking what to suggest you.... i think you have to decide between
1. Vento
2. Verna
3. New Fiesta
4. Optra - Preworshipped diesel or new one in diesel
5. Linea
6. Manza -
Yes mate, the Fiesta does have that negative. Have seen it on Display at Select Citywalk in Delhi. But it is the leg, knee, foot, head room which is more important to me. Loved the Old Fiesta handling when I TD it. Will add a TD report on it later. About the other cars, I have already TD them, as u may have seen in the initial posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krish82 View Post
But i really would'nt recommend you buying Optra now unless until you are very much thrilled with the car. If you really like it just go for it and dont get too much confused, dont care what other say, if you are happy with it will do, you are buying the car for you and not for what others say. And i dont feel optra looks dated comparing cars like etios, micra, manza, logans,skoda, elantra, old verna, Accent. So you will be still quite up the list just below few Honda, Hyndai and Lineas..
Is there any particular reason you would recommend against the Optra?
And, oh yes! I do love the engine. And more too. About the confusion - it is just that the decision to purchase has been deffered as of now.

About the Optra, it is the interiors which look dated, but still pleasant. From the outside, I quite like how it looks. From the rear, it has a sense of character.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
*No way it will void warranty unless you forget to unplug it before service.
*They claim it is a 5 min job. I would not bother even if it was a 15 min one. You only have to do it once a year.
*Look for Pete's powerbox prices on their website . Should be close to 35K.
*And for the last question I will be answering it later.


Quote:
Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
All that a powerbox does is increase the fuel amount by cheating the ECU.
So what happens is a map is created (something like this)
For 20% throttle it will inject fuel corresponding to 25%
for 50% lets say 60%
for 85% lets say 100%
for 100% lets say 120%

So in case you are driving with max throttle below 85% there is no effect of the powerbox.

In case you are frequently driving in the 85-100% zone you will encounter the following problems.
1) Smoke from exhaust
2) Higher load on engine crankshaft,conrod and transmission. Clutch will wear out faster etc. But the difference is too little to get noticed.
3) Higher combustion temperature may have adverse effect on Valves head etc. But all engines are tested for durability at max RPM and full load for hundreds of hours. Practically you never put your car in such a situation. So personally I dont see any harm done with sporadic pedal to metal driving even with a powerbox.

Bottom line - You can go for it.
Thanks for the detailed reply mate.

What I really understood is that it provides a richer mix of fuel. Like the "specialist" mechanics used to do for carburetor based mobiles back in the day; though in a lot more sophisticated way.

From what I read, the tuning boxes (like Pete's) also increases the FE (something the Indian market is particularly fussy about). It leaves me wondering why would the companies not tune their ECU's the way Pete's/Misc tuning boxes do? There costs seem to be too little, the benefit a whole lot.

Now Peteing a Manza seems like a good option too. Would it also mean a smoother engine?
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Old 27th May 2011, 10:26   #145
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

The Optra diesel indeed seems to be a very good choice. Few more inputs I would be happy to get from people who have driver the Optra diesel in city:
- Is the turbo lag a pain for city driving?
- How smooth is the clutch and gear shift? The diesels I have driven (Vista, Figo) have a slightly hard clutch that will make city driving painful

If the city driveability is great, I can as well give up my search for a diesel AT and go for this considering all other plus points.
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Old 27th May 2011, 15:11   #146
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

hi nitin.rai, i have been using manza from around 6 months. and man i am totally satisfied with the machine, be it the space or the performance. i think you should also try it once or rather try the new elan model of manza..
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Old 27th May 2011, 16:22   #147
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by mohan41 View Post
The Optra diesel indeed seems to be a very good choice. Few more inputs I would be happy to get from people who have driver the Optra diesel in city:
- Is the turbo lag a pain for city driving?
- How smooth is the clutch and gear shift? The diesels I have driven (Vista, Figo) have a slightly hard clutch that will make city driving painful

If the city driveability is great, I can as well give up my search for a diesel AT and go for this considering all other plus points.
I drove the optra yesterday and found the turbo lag to be almost neglegible. It is there but quite easy to work your way around it as the revs climb quite fast with minimum pressure on the throttle. 5 minutes into the drive and i felt as if i had owned the car all my life!!!

The clutch isnt hard either, nor is it oddly high like in the punto. The travel is slightly longer than petrol cars but comfortable none the less. The only problem is that you cannot ride the clutch while driving, by which i mean that you cannot rest your foot on the clutch as many people do because the pedal starts vibrating if you do so. But there is a wide enough footrest provided so no hassles .

The actual gearshift is not slick though and by that I dont mean its bad but it is not amongst the best around. Medium throw with a bit of rubbery feel but in no way a deal breaker. Nothing beats the gearshift on the vento/polo and the fiesta though.

All in all a quite brilliant car if you can live with the lack of gadgetry and dated [but high quality] interiors. I might actually be buying one if the new swift isnt released soon.
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Old 27th May 2011, 16:34   #148
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Chevy's are known to have very rubbery gearshifts.
I like your review of the Optra Magnum Diesel
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Old 27th May 2011, 19:32   #149
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
The Etios seems to be a very practical vehicle, but has almost zero appeal for me. Would pick the Manza over it any day. Also don't like the speedo etc being in the centre, which is very poor design IMHO.
completely. The ordinary look and feel of Etios does not have any feel good factor. Yes It has got Space, performance, decent handling and the Toyota Badge with excellent value. But I would not put my money on a on such a grandpa car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
From what I read, the tuning boxes (like Pete's) also increases the FE (something the Indian market is particularly fussy about). It leaves me wondering why would the companies not tune their ECU's the way Pete's/Misc tuning boxes do? There costs seem to be too little, the benefit a whole lot.

Now Peteing a Manza seems like a good option too. Would it also mean a smoother engine?
FE is improved as you tend to shift earlier due to availability of extra torque. The FE benefit is due to change in driving style than engine effeciency. Of course with a petes box that is not something you should be concerned about.

My suggestion is you buy the tuning box after a couple of years after buying the car. Smoother engine? I don't think so.
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Old 28th May 2011, 01:43   #150
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

@drpullockaran Thanks mate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ankit_chd View Post
Well i'm going through the same dilemma for past 2 months.

I took test drives of Vento , New Verna but still I find optra Magnum LS to be better. Its a segment higher car with better space and powerful engine.
@ankit_chd . Would be good if you could do a comparison of the New Verna and the Magnum LS. Besides the gizmos, does the New Verna feel better in any other respect?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mohan41 View Post
The Optra diesel indeed seems to be a very good choice. Few more inputs I would be happy to get from people who have driver the Optra diesel in city:
- Is the turbo lag a pain for city driving?
- How smooth is the clutch and gear shift? The diesels I have driven (Vista, Figo) have a slightly hard clutch that will make city driving painful

If the city driveability is great, I can as well give up my search for a diesel AT and go for this considering all other plus points.
@Mohan I have spent some time Test Driving the Optra. For a large part, I made a conscious effort to not get into nitty-gritties and just drive it like I normally would, if I owned it. Didn't feel any issues with the car at all. Not the clutch, nor the turbo lag.

However, in case you aren't used to Diesel vehicles, do be prepared for some changes in the feel of the car. It takes a bit of time to get used to it, but then the torque becomes addictive. And with a beast like the Magnum, be assured it will! The clutch is usually a bit hard in diesels.

When you had posted your question before, didn't know what to recommend. But since you are willing to forgo the Automatic, the Optra seems like a very good choice. It will need lesser changes too, since it has a much larger engine and a wider power band as compared to to other cars in the price bracket. The engine is refined, the NVH levels are very low, the ride is excellent and overall it gives a very smooth feel.

Unless you do a lot of bumper to bumper driving, the Optra should be comfortable to drive as far as diesels go.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrenalinJunkie View Post
I drove the optra yesterday and found the turbo lag to be almost neglegible. It is there but quite easy to work your way around it as the revs climb quite fast with minimum pressure on the throttle. 5 minutes into the drive and i felt as if i had owned the car all my life!!!
Just my feeling. Within minutes in the car, one felt "at home" with it. A wonderful feeling driving this one, Isn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrenalinJunkie View Post
All in all a quite brilliant car if you can live with the lack of gadgetry and dated [but high quality] interiors. I might actually be buying one if the new swift isnt released soon.
@AJ Nice review mate. Swift vs Optra? I was comparing the Optra to the Manza with the Sales guy. The Chevy guys would be left scratching their heads with comparos like this.

Any particular reason to opt for the Swift?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
FE is improved as you tend to shift earlier due to availability of extra torque. The FE benefit is due to change in driving style than engine effeciency. Of course with a petes box that is not something you should be concerned about.

My suggestion is you buy the tuning box after a couple of years after buying the car. Smoother engine? I don't think so.
How I drive changes quite a lot. A lot of driving may be pretty sedate, given the traffic etc, but then there are "live to drive" spurts! So both FE and power become important.

Still don't understand why the manufacturers would not tune cars like the tuning boxes do. Better FE and more power would be more than welcome.

Couple of years without better FE and Power? If it is not going to affect warranty, why mate?

About the smoother engine, it was from the Mobike days when they felt smoother with a richer fuel mix.

Last edited by Poitive : 28th May 2011 at 01:48.
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