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Old 9th June 2011, 23:45   #211
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
Just came across this old info and am very surprised.

Verito-Logan / Optra

Source:Autocar India
Wheelbase: 2630 / 2600
Width: 1740 / 1725
Height: 1540 / 1445
Length: 4247 / 4540
Boot: 510 / 405 ltrs

Now, this in now way means that the Optra is small (except the boot) but that the Verito-Logan is that big. Even though it is not as long, the wheelbase is more surprisingly more.

Am really very surprised to read this.

It would be great if someone posted a writeup on the Logan.
and that's why the Logan is one car i have a lot of respect for. Have heard a lot of good things about the Logan. But if budget were not that much of constraint. i would definately pick the Optra in the end.
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Old 10th June 2011, 10:39   #212
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Hmmm Logan.

I drove a Logan for almost 2 years though it was a petrol version and drove diesel logan on several highway drives. It is a decent car to drive, diesel gives you excellent mileage.

Regarding space, i once had 5 guests and all of them were 5'9" or above. 4 of them could fit into the rear without too much discomfort. And one time my Logan carried 6 people. 2 in the front passenger seat and 4 in the rear and this was a drive from a place near Mysore (do not remember the name) to Bangalore. I remember I overtook most of the vehicles on the highway with THAT passenger load.
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Old 10th June 2011, 11:03   #213
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Guys, I test drove the Optra LT yesterday in Besant Nagar beach area Chennai. The test drive car arrived promptly at the promised time. The car's interiors were a little dirty and the passenger seat's adjustments were broken. Price quoted to me after discounts was 10.35 L. The car was supposedly 6 months old and had run for 6,600 kms. Please see below for my views.

What I liked

- The engine is fantastic filled with torque and power. Very very responsive and a delight to drive
- The gear shifts were smooth and short and the clutch was light enough without being too girly like some of the modern cars
- The hydraulic steering was great not too light and not too heavy without transferring the vibrations
- Cabin noise while idling was next to nil, while the car was a little loud on the outside. While accelerating there was a nice roar from the engine
- Both Front and Rear seats are very roomy, great leg room and drivers seats have sufficient adjustments to make my 6' frame comfortable
- I like the horn button placement on the steering wheel while I noticed a few others on the thread didn't
- Cabin was airy and visibility was not as bad as some of the newer cars (Verna / Vento)
- Auto AC is very good and totally chilled our cabin! Remember its June in Chennai!
- Braking was very responsive
- Safety features like ABS and Dual Airbags are a definite plus.
- Leather seats are nice and the colour seems just right.
- delivery time is only 12 days !
- Suspension is great takes all the potholes in its stride and seems well planted (I didn't drive very fast since I was in the city)

What I didn't like

- Interior and Exterior Styling is so 1990s very sober and probably will call very little attention to itself (not necessarily a bad thing for many people).
- The ICE is preposterous for a 10L car, no excuse whatsoever for Chevy to put this in their top end version. No MP3 / USB / steering controls... I wonder how much these will cost Chevy to put in? Seems like the car is not being taken very seriously.
- Boot is smallish and not high enough to stack boxes vertically
- Dealer himself had doubts about re-sale value, he proudly told me that its actually a segment higher. Chevy had apparently dropped price by about 3 lakhs since the car first came out, warning bells flashed in my head.
- Fuel economy is only 12 kmpl compared to the higher values touted by Verna and Vento.

Overall I loved the car when I was driving it but when I actually sat down to think about what I wanted in my car, I'd have to say that this isn't it. I've owned an Elantra GT for the last 5 years while it was a great car its resale value is only between 2 and 2.5 lakhs (its done 99K kms). Spares have been problematic too I had to wait 3 months for a clutch plate assembly to be imported from Korea. I earlier had a Palio GTX, which is still the best car I've ever driven in India and I had to wait a month for an accelerator cable! I'm apprehensive about buying cars which are winding down in their life cycle even though they are such good deals.

I'm really leaning towards booking the Verna CRDi SX now which seems popular and I'm a Hyundai fan. The only minus point for me with regards to the Verna is its suspension in high speeds but I rarely drive over 120 kmph and with good safety features like ABS/EBD, airbags and 4 disc brakes, its gotta do.

There seems to be no perfect car out there in this segment for me, so I'm getting the next best thing. I'm going to do one more test drive of the Verna tomorrow and probably book it.

For people who recommend the City, I can't buy a petrol car because of my running costs (1800 kms a month). As for the Vento I personally don't like the idea of having to wait more than 4 months for a car unless its a Ferrari. Linea is not in the reckoning because of its 1.3 L diesel engine which to me felt under powered.

Thanks a lot for all your views it has helped me a lot. I hope I don't regret not buying the Optra because its such a lovable monster.
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Old 10th June 2011, 11:32   #214
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Chrome6Boy,

All I can say is buying a car is a very personal decision. Whatever good or bad people have to say about a particular car, at the end of the day it is you who drive it.

As I mentioned earlier, I have similar apprehensions and postponed my decision for time being. Why don't you wait for the New Fiesta to be launched and test drive the same before you put your money on New Verna? The FE quoted by Ford @23.5 ARAI figures is awesome. Atleast I have decided to do that. At the end of the day I might go in for the Optra but I will certainly TD the new Fiesta before I take the final call.

Last edited by NoRules : 10th June 2011 at 11:34.
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Old 10th June 2011, 12:50   #215
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by NoRules View Post
Chrome6Boy,

All I can say is buying a car is a very personal decision. Whatever good or bad people have to say about a particular car, at the end of the day it is you who drive it.

As I mentioned earlier, I have similar apprehensions and postponed my decision for time being. Why don't you wait for the New Fiesta to be launched and test drive the same before you put your money on New Verna? The FE quoted by Ford @23.5 ARAI figures is awesome. Atleast I have decided to do that. At the end of the day I might go in for the Optra but I will certainly TD the new Fiesta before I take the final call.
Wise advice there. You will be better off waiting a month or two till the Fiesta gets launched and TD it before finalizing.
If you can't wait then the Verna Diesel is known to be very refined and a great motor. However the steering sort of lets it down and feels disconnected.
The i20 u drove particularly had a extremely disconnected steering and i felt like i was driving one of em video games at the local arcade center.
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Old 10th June 2011, 16:49   #216
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Well. I finally put my heart on Optra and got its delivery in May. And no regrets at all. I am loving the car. Have completed the Run in of 1500 Kms and now plan to cross the 100+ mark soon. Though the *** guy said that you can do it anytime and there is no run-in required anymore. I was not sure so kept the conservative way to keep low till 2-2.5K mark before pushing the pedal to full.
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Old 10th June 2011, 17:05   #217
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

@NoRules, Thanks for sharing your Logan experience mate. I hope others share it too.

@ChromeBoy, thanks for sharing. Some thoughts in Bold below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrome6Boy View Post
What I didn't like

- Interior and Exterior Styling is so 1990s very sober and probably will call very little attention to itself (not necessarily a bad thing for many people).
I would call it a bit understated and with some character. Even though the design is a bit dated, the interior quality is rather good. Being 6', you would also appreciate the knee room being more than many 'modern' cars, thanks to that dated console!

- The ICE is preposterous for a 10L car, no excuse whatsoever for Chevy to put this in their top end version. No MP3 / USB / steering controls... I wonder how much these will cost Chevy to put in? Seems like the car is not being taken very seriously.
Yes, the ICE in many cars is not upto the mark. It seems that changing the ICE would be a simple affair. From what I understand it is quite a chore in many cars. So budget some 15-30k extra in the cost and you have an ICE of YOUR choice. Personally I don't even like steering mounted controls. Like the steering to be clutter free for driving well. The ICE is anyway within an arm's length.

- Boot is smallish and not high enough to stack boxes vertically
It truly is small for it's segment. But it allows better rear view visibility without taking the CG higher.

- Dealer himself had doubts about re-sale value, he proudly told me that its actually a segment higher. Chevy had apparently dropped price by about 3 lakhs since the car first came out, warning bells flashed in my head.
Most people considering the Optra are ones who intend to keep the car for 5 years or more.

- Fuel economy is only 12 kmpl compared to the higher values touted by Verna and Vento.
The FE is almost the same as the Manza, despite being a lot heavier. My guess is that since the Optra is a truly thrilling vehicle to drive, people would actually be driving it hard, consequently reducing the FE. If driven sedately the difference may not be too much. People in Delhi/Noida talk about 13 in the city, which IMO is not bad.
Man! At times, I wonder if I am already in love with this car without owning it, given the way I seem to defend it

Quote:
I've owned an Elantra GT for the last 5 years while it was a great car its resale value is only between 2 and 2.5 lakhs (its done 99K kms). Spares have been problematic too I had to wait 3 months for a clutch plate assembly to be imported from Korea. I earlier had a Palio GTX, which is still the best car I've ever driven in India and I had to wait a month for an accelerator cable! I'm apprehensive about buying cars which are winding down in their life cycle even though they are such good deals.
Now this is the scary part. I would really be if that were to happen to my car. The only big reason I see that it is lesser likely is that the Optra has sold in descent numbers and has been around for a long time, so there would be sufficient demand for the parts to be kept in stock; unlike the Elantra/Palio. But then, that is just my Hypothesis, not a fact. If you have other experiences or thoughts to share on possible spare parts availability, Chromeboy, please do share it.

From what I remember the engine in the Diesel versions of the Elantra and Optra Magnum is the same. Did the car's response seem familiar when you drove it?

Quote:
I'm really leaning towards booking the Verna CRDi SX now which seems popular and I'm a Hyundai fan. The only minus point for me with regards to the Verna is its suspension in high speeds but I rarely drive over 120 kmph and with good safety features like ABS/EBD, airbags and 4 disc brakes, its gotta do.
Consider a tyre change. It can make a huge difference to how the car feels. A small upsize may go a long way, though it would make the steering a bit heavier and also reduce the FE.

Quote:
There seems to be no perfect car out there in this segment for me, so I'm getting the next best thing. I'm going to do one more test drive of the Verna tomorrow and probably book it.
You did mention that you are 6'. Though I haven't driven the Verna yet, from what I read the rear bench is not comfortable (under-thigh support, legroom, cramped feeling etc.) Do factor that in for the duration you intend keeping the car.

Quote:
Thanks a lot for all your views it has helped me a lot. I hope I don't regret not buying the Optra because its such a lovable monster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoRules View Post
Chrome6Boy,

All I can say is buying a car is a very personal decision. Whatever good or bad people have to say about a particular car, at the end of the day it is you who drive it.
+1 to that. Regardless of what others say, it is you (and others who may be using this car) who need to be comfortable with the decision.

Quote:
As I mentioned earlier, I have similar apprehensions and postponed my decision for time being. Why don't you wait for the New Fiesta to be launched and test drive the same before you put your money on New Verna? The FE quoted by Ford @23.5 ARAI figures is awesome.
Based on what one reads, given your 6' you would not leave much leg room for the passenger behind you in the Fiesta (old or new). But if that is not a big concern and if you aren't in a hurry, it would be a good idea to wait. You may also book the Verna (or any other car with a significant waiting period) but still keep your options open till the launch of the New Fiesta. If you like the Fiesta, you could cancel the booking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdsaab View Post
If you can't wait then the Verna Diesel is known to be very refined and a great motor. However the steering sort of lets it down and feels disconnected.
The i20 u drove particularly had a extremely disconnected steering and i felt like i was driving one of em video games at the local arcade center.
There has been talk about some steering problems (vibrations etc?) with the i20, which you should be able to search those out on the forum. There was also some speculation about if it has been taken care of in the Verna. You may want to do your research before putting your money in.

Another purchase decision consideration which I read on the forum. The person was not happy to buy a first generation/mark/lot of any car, as he felt that it was more likely to have niggles and would be refined over time. That an older car was a more sensible buy, as it would be tried and tested.

All the best for your purchase mate.

PS: It may be a good idea to change the focus of this thread from diesel cars upto 8-9L or so to upto 12L (a la Smartcat's comparo thread) as it would include the New Fiesta and the New Verna and may bring in more fruitful discussion for members. What do the Mods think?

Last edited by Poitive : 10th June 2011 at 17:19. Reason: Added comment about the steering mounted controls. Typos.
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Old 10th June 2011, 17:10   #218
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by Pravs19 View Post
Well. I finally put my heart on Optra and got its delivery in May. And no regrets at all. I am loving the car. Have completed the Run in of 1500 Kms and now plan to cross the 100+ mark soon. Though the *** guy said that you can do it anytime and there is no run-in required anymore. I was not sure so kept the conservative way to keep low till 2-2.5K mark before pushing the pedal to full.
Good to see you back Pravs! Do keep sharing your experiences on this thread or on a new one (in that case, do please link it here). What is the FE you are getting mate?

Keeping the Optra under a 100 must have been a task!
By the way, one is supposed to keep varying the RPM in the running in period. Hope you are doing that and not being overcautious (as I had been for my with motor).

(@Mods, this is a back to back post, but the previous post from Pravs was not there when I started writing this one and didn't know how to add this quote while editing, hence the new post)

Last edited by Poitive : 10th June 2011 at 17:11. Reason: minor grammar
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Old 10th June 2011, 18:31   #219
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You are right about many folks not wanting a first lot of a newly launched car.
Infact the GM of the local hyundai dealer actually told my father not to buy the verna yet. He said let the first few lots roll out. And if there are any niggles let them get sorted out before you buy. Gem of a guy eh? Customers first ~ profits later!
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Old 10th June 2011, 21:56   #220
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

This discussion seems to be going in the right direction thanks to Poitive. I took delivery of my Optra today. White diamond - so far so good.
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Old 10th June 2011, 22:31   #221
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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This discussion seems to be going in the right direction thanks to Poitive. I took delivery of my Optra today. White diamond - so far so good.
Thanks and Congrats Mate!

I even like the colour. Gives a classy plush feel to the car. Well suited to the cars design and ideal for being driven in.

Do not forget this thread and keep us posted with your experiences and thoughts. Please post a link here if you start an ownership report thread.
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Old 11th June 2011, 00:12   #222
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by SLK View Post
This discussion seems to be going in the right direction thanks to Poitive. I took delivery of my Optra today. White diamond - so far so good.
Congratulations! It looks fabulous in white. Hope you are starting an ownership thread soon. and please post one picture of your new Optra Magnum on this thread, it surely deserves it.
Wishing you many miles of joyful motoring with your stunning white beauty.
Drive Safe!
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Old 11th June 2011, 07:11   #223
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by Pravs19 View Post
Well. I finally put my heart on Optra and got its delivery in May.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLK View Post
I took delivery of my Optra today.
We have had two announcements on Optra's being purchased in a day!

Now since my purchase has been delayed and the decision is largely clear, I thought that it would be good to keep this thread going for anyone who is considering an inexpensive diesel sedan. Including the New Verna and the New Fiesta in the discussion seems logical. Have written to the Mods to change the title of the thread.

In case people have been (polite and) reluctant in posting queries about their 'what car' questions, please feel free to use this thread.

================================================== ================================================

From now on, let this thread be open to anyone considering a Diesel Sedan upto 12L OTR Delhi.


================================================== ================================================
Hope it helps others taking in taking decisions as well.

As for me, as it may have been rather evident, am leaning towards the Optra Magnum big time. Otherwise it is likely to be the Manza. I would keep sharing thoughts on this thread - just thought that we should increase the scope for everyone, to make the thread more useful.

Guess most would already know, but here are the thread links:

New Verna: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ve-review.html

New Fiesta:http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...page-46-a.html

Last edited by Poitive : 11th June 2011 at 07:19. Reason: Formatting
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Old 12th June 2011, 10:44   #224
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
================================================== ================================================

From now on, let this thread be open to anyone considering a Diesel Sedan upto 12L OTR Delhi.


================================================== ================================================
That means I am in.

Anyway my story is somewhat like this.

Requirement:
-Diesel upto 10L lacs
-Both hatch & sedan acceptable. Hatch preferred.
-Excellent bottom end & Midrange peformance. Can compromise on top end (Post 4000 RPM)
-Decent road manners. What I needed was a Low CG. Controlled body roll and good stability. Steering feedback isnt much of of an issue. It is easy to get accustomed to it within a few days of driving.
-Brand value will be much respected. A Honda, Toyota or VW will always be rated higher than a Maruti or Hyundai.
-Bare minimum features. But ABS & AIRBAGS are must.

So there were not a huge list to worry about. I had only 3 choices
1) Vento TDi Highline
2) Verna 1.6 D
3) Optra

So the first thing I did was take a TD of Vento Diesel. Fell in love with it and booked it. Reason for a hasty booking is due to the wait list. Although I had no problems in waiting for even 6 months, the sales representative assured it will be delivered in 3 months.

I had driven optra a couple of years back. I I had always wondered why this car did not sell? Anyway buying an optra was discarded since it is already completed the end its life cycle. Forget resale, even procurement of parts can be an issue. So rejected without a TD.

I was eagerly waiting for Verna to be launched before I get my car delivered. And yes I got a chance to TD it. But ythe TD left me disappointed.

I will rate the performance of Vento to be a knotch better than the Verna. Not only due to the annoying turbo lag of verna but also due to the taller gearing even after having 6 gears. In real life cars are driven in the RPM range of 1200 to 2500 RPM. This is where 90% people drive their car for 90% time. In this RPM range Vento is 2X better than Verna.

The second disappointment was handling. The lesser its said the better.

The 3rd advantage of Vento was the German stuff vs Korean. Built quality part quality is definitely better.

And other petty stuffs like better space, better thigh support for rear passengers, rear ac vents etc.

The Verna was better in aspects that didnt matter much to me
1) Looks- Personally the Verna looks better and more futuristic
2) Features - The list just does not end
3) Hyundai *** ( This is a huge advantage)
4) 6 gears means more FE on highways.
5) Vento is the noisiest verna the quietest.
6) The softer suspension pays off in the broken road patches.

I think Verna is a great car but not exactly what I want.
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Old 12th June 2011, 11:16   #225
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

I guess then the final shoot-out for the best all rounder would be between Vento and the New Fiesta (Personal Opinion).

Both guys are playing with almost the same kind of road manners (city and highways). Ford at a slight advantage given that its riding high on its presence in India.

VW not all left behind, riding high on both Polo and Vento success. Need to wait and watch for their services that would define the ultimate king.

VW (Skoda) yet to release another "supposedly" deadly ace: The Skoda Rapid

I wonder why Toyota chose to stay away from this segment.
How old is Toyota D-4D? Do they have any plans to update this engine?
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