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Old 12th June 2011, 12:31   #226
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
I had driven optra a couple of years back. I I had always wondered why this car did not sell? Anyway buying an optra was discarded since it is already completed the end its life cycle. Forget resale, even procurement of parts can be an issue. So rejected without a TD.
Though our requirements are quite different, I too was apprehensive about the Optra and parts availability. To a very small extent, still am. Overall the opinion has been that it should not be much of an issue. There was even a comment about Opel's Sail's parts being available. Same for the Matiz (local market) even though Daewoo isn't around anymore. Also some talk of the manufacturers being bound by the motor vehicle act to supply parts for a certain period (15 years?). Some of the info is from the sister thread at http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...sx4-manza.html

The Optra may not have been a hot selling car at any point of time, but it has been around for a while and that means there are many Optras still around. That should generate enough demand for most parts to be easily available. That is my hypothesis!

If you look at the sales figures, Optra sells around 300pm. The Civic only about 200. Corolla about 400. So it really isn't selling that poorly. It just isn't in the limelight. My guess is that GM doesn't want to promote this car as it is better than the Cruze in most respects and it was better for the company's image for the Cruze to do well. Optra makes Cruze seem like poor VFM.

Eventually what I am trying to say here is that don't just give up on the Optra. Do your bit of research and you too may feel that it is a worthwhile buy. Test Drive it anyway.

(@mods : Please change the title of the thread as requested )
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Old 12th June 2011, 16:02   #227
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Default Re: Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 8L or so- Optra to be discontinued?

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Eventually what I am trying to say here is that don't just give up on the Optra. Do your bit of research and you too may feel that it is a worthwhile buy. Test Drive it anyway.
TD is something that can be done. But now its too late.
Anyway already have a chevy beat. Dont want another chevy. Looking for something different.
Even if I would buy an Optra it would be a pre-owned one.

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Originally Posted by ampere View Post
I guess then the final shoot-out for the best all rounder would be between Vento and the New Fiesta (Personal Opinion).
I dont think so. The new fiesta is underpowered. Space is a concern. Neither does it have the brand of honda/toyota/VW nor the A.S.S of Maruti /Hyundai. Specially with 1.5L engines they cant compete with Vento or Verna. It will be in the league of SX4 and Manza.
Petrol might be a different story altogether.
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Old 12th June 2011, 19:15   #228
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Default Re: Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 8L or so- Optra to be discontinued?

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Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
I dont think so. The new fiesta is underpowered. Space is a concern. Neither does it have the brand of honda/toyota/VW nor the A.S.S of Maruti /Hyundai. Specially with 1.5L engines they cant compete with Vento or Verna. It will be in the league of SX4 and Manza.
Petrol might be a different story altogether.
Some notes from my side:

Ford services are not in the league of Maruti/Hyundai, but definitely its way way better than VW at this instant. Thanks to Figo, the dealership has improved quite a lot. But VW will not lie quiet. But yet to see a positive response from them on this side.
Though as you said its true that VW as a brand is much more aspirational.

We can safely omit Honda/Toyota out of this discussion, as they do not have a product in this category. (Referring to diesel versions only).

Not sure if we should compare Ford offering of the new Fiesta to Manza.
(The same brand aspiration logic which we apply to VW, now can be applied to Tata versus Ford). As regards to technical points between the two sedans, I cannot say anything, as I have driven neither. I can only venture a guess based on the previous Fiesta diesel.

As regards to power and drivability, I think this was discussed quite extensively (I think in the Fiesta thread), where logical reasons were presented for the case of both Verna and Fiesta). I think what came out broadly was that power/displacement would be high for Verna and on straight highways it would be much better. But in cases of cornering and handling, Fiesta was way better. This is true even for the new Verna.

If one is looking to cruise on the highway with good mileage, Ford would be my answer.


Now if we bring in the Vento angle, it has some kind of best of both worlds. With higher displacement and a non-existent lag, it just sweeps all the categories. Hence I was alluding to a decent all round performance where both Vento and new Fiesta tick all the boxes (nothing against Verna though. The equipment list is impressive and the road presence very strong.) Just that in the combination of cornering, decent power delivery, city driving and FE, Ford and VW rank above for me.

(Please note this is my personal opinion only. Feedbacks and comments welcome)
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Old 12th June 2011, 19:55   #229
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Default Re: Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 8L or so- Optra to be discontinued?

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Originally Posted by ampere View Post
Some notes from my side:
If one is looking to cruise on the highway with good mileage, Ford would be my answer.
I think the Verna will do equally well with its available 6th gear.

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Originally Posted by ampere View Post
Just that in the combination of cornering, decent power delivery, city driving and FE, Ford and VW rank above for me.

(Please note this is my personal opinion only. Feedbacks and comments welcome)
Might wanna add the upcoming 1.6MJd for Linea as well.
Anyway I am extremely disappointed when I heard Fiesta will be available in 1.5L only. I have driven Figo 1.4. It isn't underpowered. (The petrol version is terribly though) It is just adequate and offers decent drivability but nowhere near to be termed fun to drive. I dont expect the 1.5 to be much different either.
Handling wise the EPS replacing the HPS is a point of concern. But anyway keeping these minute things apart it should be one among the best handlers. So lets wait till the official review comes up.
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Old 12th June 2011, 20:14   #230
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
TD is something that can be done. But now its too late.
Too late for?
Do you mean you have locked onto the Vento?

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Originally Posted by ampere View Post
If one is looking to cruise on the highway with good mileage, Ford would be my answer.
Read on the forum about a member getting 18+ with 80-20% (or was it 70-30) highway-city use in the New Verna. With it's 6th gear, it may give stiff competition.

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Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
Might wanna add the upcoming 1.6MJd for Linea as well.
Not sure where I read it (probably Hormaz's tweets) that the plans for the 1.6MJD Linea are shelved.

Quote:
So lets wait till the official review comes up.
Would be a good idea.
We hit a century (of pages) of speculation and excitement on the New Fiesta thread! .
Hopefully a review should be out soon and we would have more substantial basis to form opinions.

---------------------
Now I am not sure where this discussion is headed.
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Old 12th June 2011, 20:26   #231
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Do you mean you have locked onto the Vento?
Yes payment has been made.
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Old 12th June 2011, 20:27   #232
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

I really hope Verna gives good competition. Today finally NDTV CNB showcased the New Fiesta first drive!

The ARAI claim on petrol is 18 and on diesel is 23.5. Two points specifically mentioned were precise steering and handling. Even they were a bit disappointed as they had driven the 1.6 version earlier.
The word used was " not as electric". So surely it would not be as "sporty" as the Vento/Verna. But I would surely open my eyes wide to that mileage!

Last edited by ampere : 12th June 2011 at 20:28.
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Old 12th June 2011, 22:29   #233
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Quote:
Originally Posted by oxyzen (Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L)
Might wanna add the upcoming 1.6MJd for Linea as well.

Not sure where I read it (probably Hormaz's tweets) that the plans for the 1.6MJD Linea are shelved.
Hello Poitive,

I just had a TD of Linea 1.3 MJD yesterday (coming up on a separate thread on that) and the sales guy confirmed the launch of Bravo 1.9L/ Linea 1.6L & Evo within a span of next 12 months.
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Old 13th June 2011, 10:18   #234
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by Jakku View Post
Hello Poitive,

I just had a TD of Linea 1.3 MJD yesterday (coming up on a separate thread on that) and the sales guy confirmed the launch of Bravo 1.9L/ Linea 1.6L & Evo within a span of next 12 months.
Hey Jakku, fantastic news man. But this seems to be quite contradictory to what Poitive has mentioned few posts earlier "Not sure where I read it (probably Hormaz's tweets) that the plans for the 1.6MJD Linea are shelved". Hope these are shelved for 2011 & not 2012. Though 12 months seem to be quite a long time frame, if they are going to launch the 3 cars that you have mentioned, then nothing like it. The Linea 1.6L Multijet has been my dream machine from day-1. Do you have any further idea on the tech specs of these cars?
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Old 13th June 2011, 12:45   #235
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Post Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
Hey Jakku, fantastic news man. But this seems to be quite contradictory to what Poitive has mentioned few posts earlier "Not sure where I read it (probably Hormaz's tweets) that the plans for the 1.6MJD Linea are shelved". Hope these are shelved for 2011 & not 2012. Though 12 months seem to be quite a long time frame, if they are going to launch the 3 cars that you have mentioned, then nothing like it. The Linea 1.6L Multijet has been my dream machine from day-1. Do you have any further idea on the tech specs of these cars?
AutoIndia -- yeah this seems to be quite contradictory, but not sure the authenticity (the sales guy could just be claiming for the sake of it - dealer is Concorde Motors, Dairy Circle, Bangalore). Also, the span of 12 months seems to be long, but since it is 3 launches over that period, I feel the hype would not fade of that easily.

From spec wise - he was claiming the Bravo to be well equipped with all the gizmos and from safety perspective, it will have all the equipments like Airbags/ ABS/ EBD/ traction control etc. etc. According to him this will be the most expensive(16-18L bracket)/ fastest and loaded hatchback available in India. Evo again will have 500's equipment list and in a price bracket of 10-12 L (again a CBU like 500). Linea will come in the price range of T-Jet (or just above that), but will have just one trim like T-Jet over and above the existing 1.3 emotion pack. There should be no addition in the equipment level, but cosmetic difference of leather seats etc & tire upgradation to 16".

By seeing the confidence with which he was speaking this many details, I am quite confused if he is just talking for the matter of it or if Fiat really means business. I know Fiat has a site for Bravo (for India), the link for which is just taken out of their homepage, but not sure for others.

Everyone, need your help on the below points.
1) I was checking with him on the enhancements to be done for the Linea after buying (no, not decided on Linea, still the contention is between Optra and Linea where Optra TD is yet to be taken). He was asking me to add reverse sensors, sun film if required, nothing else. No teflon coating/ under chasi coating/ anti rust coating (he is claiming this is "not adviced" by Fiat). Not sure if this guy is just claiming all these or just trying to fool people around. Wanted to get an idea on the sales executive, because he was very cordial, responsive and had good knowledge on the features and was ready to explain all the details. Also, he allowed me for a good TD of approx 15km. This is my first experience of its kind from a Tata/ Fiat showroom where in I have TD allmost all the Tata Fiat vehicle (except 500).

2) They quoted 3.4L for my Hyundai Accent Executive 2009 April model (as is condition) which has done 19000+ km with an additional 10,000/- as exchange bonus which in effect takes the price to 3.5L. My car's front windshield has a stone crack and the speedometer cable is broken (odometer, tripmeter and tachometer are working). Do we get the exchange bonus if I sell my car to a third party (not the dealer)? Logic of the question is I am exchanging my car for a Fiat, but to a third party as he is paying me more.
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Old 13th June 2011, 14:53   #236
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by Jakku View Post
Linea will come in the price range of T-Jet (or just above that), but will have just one trim like T-Jet over and above the existing 1.3 emotion pack. There should be no addition in the equipment level, but cosmetic difference of leather seats etc & tire upgradation to 16".
This is the perfect car for me & I am ready to wait even for 12 months. I hope we get the 1.6L MJD with 105BHP power & 290Nm torque @ 1500rpm (This is the FGT variant). If we get the VGT with 120BHP power & 300Nm torque @ 1500rpm, then the competition will be just blown away.

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Originally Posted by Jakku View Post
By seeing the confidence with which he was speaking this many details, I am quite confused if he is just talking for the matter of it or if Fiat really means business.
Sincerely hope that whatever he told you is 100% true.

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Originally Posted by Jakku View Post
2) They quoted 3.4L for my Hyundai Accent Executive 2009 April model (as is condition) which has done 19000+ km with an additional 10,000/- as exchange bonus which in effect takes the price to 3.5L. My car's front windshield has a stone crack and the speedometer cable is broken (odometer, tripmeter and tachometer are working). Do we get the exchange bonus if I sell my car to a third party (not the dealer)? Logic of the question is I am exchanging my car for a Fiat, but to a third party as he is paying me more.
As far as I understand, exchange bonus can be availed from the dealer only if you sell your old vehicle to the dealer. I think you would be better off selling to the third person directly. Please check your car valuation on carwale.com. That will give you a good indicative price of what to expect. Depending on the mods, ice etc you can add further to that price.
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Old 13th June 2011, 15:28   #237
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by ampere View Post
I really hope Verna gives good competition. Today finally NDTV CNB showcased the New Fiesta first drive!

The ARAI claim on petrol is 18 and on diesel is 23.5. Two points specifically mentioned were precise steering and handling. Even they were a bit disappointed as they had driven the 1.6 version earlier.
The word used was " not as electric". So surely it would not be as "sporty" as the Vento/Verna. But I would surely open my eyes wide to that mileage!
A New Verna Owner on the forum posted this:
"Fuel efficiency, with over 80% on the highway, has been an average of 18.7 kmpl. The roads in this trip were nothing to write home about, and being two lane all the way, it required a lot of gear change for overtaking. Hence I am very happy with the F/E."

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post2388064 (Bringing home the Fluidic Verna CRDi SX(O))

He had been running on over inflated tyres for a part, so that would be a factor. More in the thread linked above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakku View Post
Hello Poitive,

I just had a TD of Linea 1.3 MJD yesterday (coming up on a separate thread on that) and the sales guy confirmed the launch of Bravo 1.9L/ Linea 1.6L & Evo within a span of next 12 months.
Hi Jakku, Please do add the link of the TD to this thread also. I too Test Drove the Linea again, though with less seriousness. Will be posting that on this thread itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
Hey Jakku, fantastic news man. But this seems to be quite contradictory to what Poitive has mentioned few posts earlier "Not sure where I read it (probably Hormaz's tweets) that the plans for the 1.6MJD Linea are shelved". Hope these are shelved for 2011 & not 2012. Though 12 months seem to be quite a long time frame, if they are going to launch the 3 cars that you have mentioned, then nothing like it. The Linea 1.6L Multijet has been my dream machine from day-1. Do you have any further idea on the tech specs of these cars?
The only info I really had on the Linea 1.6 was from this tweet by Hormazd (managed to dig it out!):

@hormazdsorabjee Hormazd Sorabjee


Punto to get facelift but no engine changes. Also, 1.6 diesel for Linea definitely not coming

23 May via Twitter for BlackBerry®

Link: Twitter

At first thought I was dismissing the Sales guys talk as just sales talk, but since he had ample details about the car, it made me wonder if he could be correct.

While test driving the 1.3MJD's was thinking of those cars would sell a lot better with 1.6MJD's The Linea with it's handling would be the car to beat in the segment, if it comes around. With products like this in it's portfolio - If only Fiat could inspire more confidence in it's A$$. If only.

Last edited by Poitive : 13th June 2011 at 15:40. Reason: Spellings, Formatting.
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Old 13th June 2011, 15:50   #238
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Post Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
This is the perfect car for me & I am ready to wait even for 12 months. I hope we get the 1.6L MJD with 105BHP power & 290Nm torque @ 1500rpm (This is the FGT variant). If we get the VGT with 120BHP power & 300Nm torque @ 1500rpm, then the competition will be just blown away.
What he told me is the 120BHP one, but was not sure on the tourque, so it should be the VGT one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
Sincerely hope that whatever he told you is 100% true.
keeping the fingers crossed for the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
As far as I understand, exchange bonus can be availed from the dealer only if you sell your old vehicle to the dealer. I think you would be better off selling to the third person directly. Please check your car valuation on carwale.com. That will give you a good indicative price of what to expect. Depending on the mods, ice etc you can add further to that price.
Yeah I understand, but was just checking if anyone had an experience the other way round.
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Old 13th June 2011, 15:52   #239
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by Jakku View Post

Everyone, need your help on the below points.
1) I was checking with him on the enhancements to be done for the Linea after buying (no, not decided on Linea, still the contention is between Optra and Linea where Optra TD is yet to be taken). He was asking me to add reverse sensors, sun film if required, nothing else. No teflon coating/ under chasi coating/ anti rust coating (he is claiming this is "not adviced" by Fiat). Not sure if this guy is just claiming all these or just trying to fool people around.
One would normally expect the sales guy to fool by selling more, than selling less. I had read on the forum (Most probably Khoj's post on a Chevy Ownership report) that Teflon coating and the Anti-Rust coating is not needed.

Others may be able to add more value on this aspect. You could also mail Fiat on this.

Quote:
Also, he allowed me for a good TD of approx 15km. This is my first experience of its kind from a Tata/ Fiat showroom where in I have TD allmost all the Tata Fiat vehicle (except 500).
I think I have been more fortunate Have usually managed approx.8-20km Test Drives on the Linea/Manza. Anything less than 10-12kms hardly even feels like a TD.

Quote:
2) They quoted 3.4L for my Hyundai Accent Executive 2009 April model (as is condition) which has done 19000+ km with an additional 10,000/- as exchange bonus which in effect takes the price to 3.5L. My car's front windshield has a stone crack and the speedometer cable is broken (odometer, tripmeter and tachometer are working). Do we get the exchange bonus if I sell my car to a third party (not the dealer)? Logic of the question is I am exchanging my car for a Fiat, but to a third party as he is paying me more.
I think I had posted my experience on this before too. Typically, one gets best value if one sells directly to the user of the car (most tedious), moderate value if sold to a used car dealer (quite easy), least value (despite 'exchange bonus' schemes) if sold to the new car showroom (easiest). My impression is that the 'Exchange Bonuses' work like this - Offer 20k lesser and give an exchange bonus of 10k.

(@mods, the previous post was getting too long to accommodate all replies, hence divided it into two posts. Also didn't expect to be able to reply to this part as soon.)

Last edited by Poitive : 13th June 2011 at 15:56. Reason: added the note to mods
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Old 14th June 2011, 13:46   #240
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Post Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Confusion again !!!! I had almost finalised on Linea (my long term admiration) but this TD took all the things to a different direction.

Drove the Magnum yesterday and this is my first drive of an Optra (ride as well). The OTR price in Bangalore as of yesterday is 11.44 L and offered a discount of 38000/- (cash discount + corporate bonus) and additional Rs.31000/- for Chevy Promise (optional). This is for the new 2011 model. Changes from the previous one are - the new one has a different Alloy, ACC & 6 CD changer.

The guy from Kropex Bangalore was quick to respond over phone and came to my office at the right time. Explained the vehicle to me and asked me to drive. He asked me to go through the traffic first and then to the open roads to actually understand the power of the vehicle (he was never concerned on the KMs I covered for the TD). I was in between some urgent work and could not actually go for a long TD. The only bad thing I felt was that he got me the vehicle from old generation and not the new 2011 version.

I took the vehicle to my wife's office (about 2 km from mine) and took her for a small drive of about a KM and came back. She was quite amazed by the plush interiors as soon as she entered and was quite happy at the end. According to her, the Linea/ SX4 is not up to this mark from interior perspective. She had never asked me to go for a repeat TD of any vehicle and this was the first one!!!!

Went back to my office through heavy traffic and was quite happy driving this beast in 1st gear for about 2kms (20 mins to cover this 2 kms!!!!). I asked the Sales guy to be a chauffeur for the time being and he happily obliged. Back seat comfort is as great & good. He dropped me back at my office and asked me to come again for a long TD and he even told me Sunday is OK with him (quite frankly I never expected this considering my pain in getting a TD from Chevy).

To put it simply, too amazed. The looks were not eye catching from outside, but from inside it had that "OOMPH" factor (according to me). I was feeling as if sitting in a big car from inside (bigger than Accent, Linea and SX4). I am not sure about actuals and have not compared the dimensions, but defenitely the feeling is so. Again, the deciding factor at the end (which has a veto power as well) is the ability to park this vehicle in my parking slot. I am not interested in spending 11L+ and park on the road.

This is our experience and a layman's feeling of the vehicle. I will come out with full TD details and selection criteria in a new thread at What Car > Sedan section and as suggested by Poitive, will post the link in this thread.
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