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Old 18th June 2011, 20:54   #286
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Default Re: How about some thoughts on the New Verna and the soon to be launched Fiesta

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Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
How about some comparisons about the New Verna (and new Fiesta) with the other cars in the segment.

I have not driven them so can't add much here, but would be good to hear other's views and comparisons. It could lead to some fruitful discussions.

Anyone?
Let me do the honours. Since new Fiesta has not been launched & not available for TD yet, can't comment on it. However took the TD of the Fluidic Verna SX CRDi, almost a month back, hence can definitely comment on it:

What I liked:
1. Meaty 16" alloys, they are simply awesome.
2. "Pin drop silence" inside the cabin, the engine was hardly audible.
3. The IRVM display of reverse camera is too good (this is the most important & a must have feature in my opinion)
4. 5 adults, 1kid, AC blowing full blast, the car pulled effortlessly without any sweat.
5. Exteriors are eye catching & surely a looker.
6. Spare wheel is an alloy.
7. All wheel disc brakes, ABS with EBD, inspires confidence while braking

Points of concern:
1. The front bumper seemed to be low slung & almost kissing the ground
2. The much talked about poor rear seat under thigh support.
3. Very little gap between wheel wells & tyres, soft suspension & a fully loaded car, will it foul?
4. Super light steering, though good for city driving could ruffle a feather while on highway.
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Old 21st June 2011, 01:20   #287
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Guys, we have been a bit too focused on the Optra (blame me ). How about some comparisons about the New Verna (and new Fiesta) with the other cars in the segment.
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Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
Let me do the honours.
The silence on the thread is deafening!

I wonder what happened. Optra enthusiasts, I didn't mean to say that we can't discuss the Optra - was just trying to expand the scope.

@Autoindian, Thanks for the crisp report. One is hearing more and more good words about how silent the Verna's engine is. Wanted to TD it a few days back, but one dealership didn't have a TD vehicle at all. The other said that it was sent to the yard for washing at 5:30pm.

Hope to have some comparisons of the cars in the segment by others who have test driven them (or better still owned them).

Last edited by Poitive : 21st June 2011 at 01:22. Reason: Added last line.
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Old 21st June 2011, 09:41   #288
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Here is some Optra talk resurrection news
I read that a flat discount of 30K is going on all Optra variants
making a sweet deal even sweeter.
Time to book one i guess.
Drive Safe!
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Old 21st June 2011, 19:15   #289
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Post Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by mdsaab View Post
Here is some Optra talk resurrection news
I read that a flat discount of 30K is going on all Optra variants
making a sweet deal even sweeter.
Time to book one i guess.
Drive Safe!
Yeah that is right, and you can buy 3 years Chevy Promise for 31K for this car which means the Chevy Promise is literally coming in for Rs.1000/- which makes it too cool. Apart from this 30K cash discount, I was also offered a corporate bonus of 8K and the sales guy told me to confirm the vehicle, so that he can get me right prices. So yeah this makes the deal even sweeter with a small catch. There is one post which was confirming on discontinuing this model by Nov this year. So that could be the lone deal breaker for me. Just waiting to get more details on that and also my official posting (likely to get a transfer).
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Old 22nd June 2011, 01:35   #290
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by mdsaab View Post
Here is some Optra talk resurrection news
I read that a flat discount of 30K is going on all Optra variants
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakku View Post
Yeah that is right, and you can buy 3 years Chevy Promise for 31K for this car which means the Chevy Promise is literally coming in for Rs.1000/- which makes it too cool. Apart from this 30K cash discount, I was also offered a corporate bonus of 8K and the sales guy told me to confirm the vehicle, so that he can get me right prices. So yeah this makes the deal even sweeter with a small catch. There is one post which was confirming on discontinuing this model by Nov this year. So that could be the lone deal breaker for me. Just waiting to get more details on that and also my official posting (likely to get a transfer).
Pravs19 on this thread had managed a 53k discount!
Please read this: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/sedans...ml#post2318293 (Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L)

From what I remember, GM has been offering about 30k upfront discount on one guise or the other for a very long time.
(Beyond that, we'd have to refer to mdsaab's school of negotiation )

@Jakku, There has been a lot of speculation about the Optra getting discontinued. Don't think we saw any confirmation on the Diesel being discontinued on this thread. There was one before, which I addressed in ample length a few posts back. Also please share any thoughts you may have had on the issue.
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Old 22nd June 2011, 15:24   #291
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

@ Jakku, I purchased the Optra few months back. I had checked with GM in February and they confirmed that GM has no plans to discontinue the Optra. The GM Sales @ Sundaram was also mentioning on how Optra fits well below Cruze from a positioning perspective. GM currently does not have a car betweeen Aveo and Cruze which is a huge gap if Optra is diconitnued. When i had discussion at KLN (from whom i purchased the car), they was no mention about discontinuing the car. If the car is to be released in November, I am sure GM would have called a training for the service guys.

I doubt if Optra would be discontinued soon. In addition, Ford had chose to retain the old Fiesta + the Hyundai still retains Accent. There is also news that we could see the Octavia do a come back with the 1.6L engine used in Vento at a lower price point.

If any one does have concrete information that Optra is to be discontinued, pls share it preferably with details of the source.

Last edited by visweshkalambur : 22nd June 2011 at 15:25.
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Old 22nd June 2011, 21:47   #292
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Post Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by visweshkalambur View Post
@ Jakku, I purchased the Optra few months back. I had checked with GM in February and they confirmed that GM has no plans to discontinue the Optra. ..... There is also news that we could see the Octavia do a come back with the 1.6L engine used in Vento at a lower price point. .....
Oh, that is a good news that Optra is to be retained in the line-up and also this plugs the gap between Aveo and Cruze nicely. Again, the news on Octavia is an equally good one. Need to check on a thread which compares Octavia (obviously old one) and Optra side by side. I feel, barring the A.S.S aspect, both can be compared with each other and I am sure Optra will win miles ahead !!! I never thought I will ever go for an American manufacturer, infact I had fought with many of my friends to not go with Chevy, but this machine is changing me and I am sure I will get handful (or mouthful) from them if I stick to my decision.
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Old 24th June 2011, 20:12   #293
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Took a TD of Optra Magnum LT Diesel today. Here are my impressions:

1. Massive turbo lag before 2000 rpm. I currently drive an Alto (800cc) and the lack of pulling power is frustrating, especially just after crossing a speed-breaker. The Optra is of course much better but not good enough for a 2.0L engine. Once you cross 2000 rpm and the turbo kicks in, it's like a rocket.

Vento diesel was much better in this regard. There was a little bit of turbo lag but it was hardly noticeable.

2. The rear seat is like a sofa. Amazing amount of space; 3 adults can sit comfortably. Lots of leg room too. Pull down the hand-rest and you feel like a sheikh sitting there.

3. The car is highly insulated against outside noise but the tire noise was quite audible.

The amount of turbo lag present kills it for me.
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Old 24th June 2011, 20:54   #294
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Going for a test drive of Optra again and this time I will be going in person to the showroom to actually "see & feel" the difference of the old and new Optra and to know more on the news of discontinuing. I have seen from different posts in this thread on the leather seats and other things, but let me get a first hand experience of the same.

I have completed the test drive of Linea/ Optra/ Laura. New Verna (1.4 diesel version), Cruze Auto, Sonata & Jetta is planned. I know there are 2 different segments of vehicles are compared here. Just seeing if I can extend the budget for the next segment. My heart is asking me to try Innova and Scorpio as well !!!, but has not entered in the competition yet. Cruze entered & left the contention (without a TD, but will do one just to get a feel) as for me headroom & comfort is more important than sheer power.

My nature with all the vehicles I have bought till date is to buy one which was never tested myself or even considered. However, the positive side is, I have never ever felt even the slightest of disappointment with any of these purchases !!! Quite contradictory or surprising, but that is the matter of fact. So it could be the same in this edition as well, but trying to cover most options in the price bracket of 10-20L, to have a feel of almost all before buying.

Once I complete all the test drives (mostly by Teusday) I will come up with a new thread on my experience, or should I just continue in this thread as suggested by Poitive? Again, my employer is playing hide and seek with me on my transfer which is actually delaying the decision and making it more complicated. Else, I would have already bought an Optra by now (I simply love this car by spending just 20 mins in the car).

Last edited by Jakku : 24th June 2011 at 20:58. Reason: Missed out few words in second paragraph which was contradicting my own statements.
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Old 24th June 2011, 23:55   #295
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by Jakku View Post
I have completed the test drive of Linea/ Optra/ Laura. New Verna (1.4 diesel version), Cruze Auto, Sonata & Jetta is planned.
Lucky guy! I've not seen 1.4 Verna at any of dealerships in NCR.

Pl share your feedback about 1.4 Verna; is it similar to 1.4 Crdi i20? How it feels compared to 1.6 diesel?

Last edited by breezydrive : 24th June 2011 at 23:57.
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Old 25th June 2011, 01:25   #296
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by bansal98 View Post
1. Massive turbo lag before 2000 rpm. I currently drive an Alto (800cc) and the lack of pulling power is frustrating, especially just after crossing a speed-breaker. The Optra is of course much better but not good enough for a 2.0L engine. Once you cross 2000 rpm and the turbo kicks in, it's like a rocket.
That observation is not correct! - there is turbo lag, but its not bad.

The cars I drive on a very regular basis [as I own these] - 5 speed 800, Alto 1.1 Vxi, WagonR. CityZX, Ritz Vdi & latest addition the Optra Magnum.

Diesels have relatively long gears - and putting it to sub 1000rpm in a tall gear is not fair. You got to know the correct gear! and there is almost no lag, don't compare it with the 800cc, b'coz in terms of response in 2nd gear (after say a speedbreaker) it's better than my CityZX or WagonR, just because of short gearing compared to the others.

The Ritz Vdi has more turbo lag than Optra, but I've never had any issues.

Optra has very little tyre noise intruding the cabin at least till 135km/h [haven't gone faster than that], what are you comparing this with?

Don't trust yourself after a short drive - it takes a few 100 or 1000 kms to get used to driving a diesel, No I'm not saying that the trick is to keep it in the power band i.e. 2000+. My Optra is new and I'm not pushing it hard, mostly driven in the sub 2000 rpm range, still no issues with any lag.
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Old 25th June 2011, 01:44   #297
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakku View Post
Going for a test drive of Optra again and this time
===============

I have completed the test drive of Linea/ Optra/ Laura. New Verna (1.4 diesel version), Cruze Auto, Sonata & Jetta is planned.

============
Else, I would have already bought an Optra by now (I simply love this car by spending just 20 mins in the car).
Quote:
Originally Posted by breezydrive View Post
Lucky guy! I've not seen 1.4 Verna at any of dealerships in NCR.

Pl share your feedback about 1.4 Verna; is it similar to 1.4 Crdi i20? How it feels compared to 1.6 diesel?
@Jakku, Since you seem to like the Optra enough, and have already tested it once, would suggest you TD it after all the other cars. It may work better. - Just my needless 2 cents

+1 to breezydrive - please do share your Verna 1.4 TD. Since TD of it is not easy to come by, please give as many comparisons as you can to other cars, so that we can get a better idea about it. Thanks mate.

PS: More thoughts later guys.

Last edited by Poitive : 25th June 2011 at 01:46.
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Old 25th June 2011, 09:57   #298
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by SLK View Post
That observation is not correct! - there is turbo lag, but its not bad.

The cars I drive on a very regular basis [as I own these] - 5 speed 800, Alto 1.1 Vxi, WagonR. CityZX, Ritz Vdi & latest addition the Optra Magnum.

Diesels have relatively long gears - and putting it to sub 1000rpm in a tall gear is not fair. You got to know the correct gear! and there is almost no lag, don't compare it with the 800cc, b'coz in terms of response in 2nd gear (after say a speedbreaker) it's better than my CityZX or WagonR, just because of short gearing compared to the others.

The Ritz Vdi has more turbo lag than Optra, but I've never had any issues.

Optra has very little tyre noise intruding the cabin at least till 135km/h [haven't gone faster than that], what are you comparing this with?

Don't trust yourself after a short drive - it takes a few 100 or 1000 kms to get used to driving a diesel, No I'm not saying that the trick is to keep it in the power band i.e. 2000+. My Optra is new and I'm not pushing it hard, mostly driven in the sub 2000 rpm range, still no issues with any lag.
The fact that the TD car I drove had 45k on the odometer and it was a TD car might have something to do with my impressions. Also, I had lofty expectations after reading so much about that famed pulling power. It's all there but not at the place where I need it most (second gear). Since I would mostly be driving in the city, torque at low rpm is more important to me than at 2000 rpm. Just to make myself clear, the torque at low rpm is not bad in absolute terms but not enough for a 2L engine.

The cabin was super silent except for the tire noise. Again, it might be due to the TD car being old. I'll ask the sales guy if there is a newer TD vehicle available.
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Old 25th June 2011, 13:06   #299
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by Jakku View Post
Need to check on a thread which compares Octavia (obviously old one) and Optra side by side. I feel, barring the A.S.S aspect, both can be compared with each other and I am sure Optra will win miles ahead !!!
Octavia vs Optra Magnum - This is the thread you need mate:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...your-pick.html (Diesel war : Chevy Magnum vs Skoda Octavia. Whats your pick?)

(poll says 212 for Magnum, 77 for Octavia)


Quote:
Originally Posted by bansal98 View Post
Took a TD of Optra Magnum LT Diesel today. Here are my impressions:

1. Massive turbo lag before 2000 rpm. I currently drive an Alto (800cc) and the lack of pulling power is frustrating, especially just after crossing a speed-breaker. The Optra is of course much better but not good enough for a 2.0L engine. Once you cross 2000 rpm and the turbo kicks in, it's like a rocket.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLK View Post
Diesels have relatively long gears - and putting it to sub 1000rpm in a tall gear is not fair. You got to know the correct gear! and there is almost no lag, don't compare it with the 800cc, b'coz in terms of response in 2nd gear (after say a speedbreaker) it's better than my CityZX or WagonR, just because of short gearing compared to the others.
=========

Don't trust yourself after a short drive - it takes a few 100 or 1000 kms to get used to driving a diesel, No I'm not saying that the trick is to keep it in the power band i.e. 2000+. My Optra is new and I'm not pushing it hard, mostly driven in the sub 2000 rpm range, still no issues with any lag.
+1 to SLK's views.

@bansal98, I very much agree with SLK's views. Like the power delivery/band, even the gearing is different in cars. It is tall for the Optra. I doubt you would take the 800cc Alto above, say, 40-50kmph on second gear. In the Optra you could stretch it to 90kmph quite easily. (if I remember correctly, someone had tested it to 120kmph in second gear!)

Such cars often need to be driven in gear lower for the same speed. There have also been some (unconfirmed?) reports on the forum, about the ECU mapping being changed, sometime in Nov 2007. Now ideally the TD vehicle should have updated settings, but we never know.

I'd suggest you to take a TD with a different Magnum. Also to factor in a few hundred kms of driving to get used to a diesel, pretty much like SLK recommended.

Last edited by Poitive : 25th June 2011 at 13:09. Reason: Added poll results
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Old 25th June 2011, 15:15   #300
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
Octavia vs Optra Magnum - This is the thread you need mate:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...your-pick.html (Diesel war : Chevy Magnum vs Skoda Octavia. Whats your pick?)

(poll says 212 for Magnum, 77 for Octavia)
Thanks Poitive. The result was as my expectation.

Quote:
@Jakku, Since you seem to like the Optra enough, and have already tested it once, would suggest you TD it after all the other cars. It may work better. - Just my needless 2 cents
Thanks for this advice, yes I will do it that way.

Quote:
bansal98 Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L
Took a TD of Optra Magnum LT Diesel today. Here are my impressions:

1. Massive turbo lag before 2000 rpm. I currently drive an Alto (800cc) and the lack of pulling power is frustrating, especially just after crossing a speed-breaker. The Optra is of course much better but not good enough for a 2.0L engine. Once you cross 2000 rpm and the turbo kicks in, it's like a rocket.
@ Bansal98 :- I never felt that kind of a turbo lag, yes it is there, but not that much evident. There was one member who explained the way this beast "crawls" up the ramp of malls. For the TD, I also got one which had done 44k + kms and which had its piece of issues like the Left ORVM electrical adjustment not working, the left window not going down, the one-touch up feature not working for left side windows (down was working) etc. (seems like and issue with LHS of the car). But from a mechanical perspective, I did not felt much of an issue. This could primarily be due to my ignorance of technicalities. Being a layman, I was more or less looking at the comfort/ space/ driving comfortness etc.
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