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Old 25th June 2011, 15:25   #301
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by visweshkalambur View Post
There is also news that we could see the Octavia do a come back with the 1.6L engine used in Vento at a lower price point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakku View Post
Again, the news on Octavia is an equally good one.
Autocar Article on the Skoda Rapid (guess this is what Viswesh was talking about)

Skoda Rapid is Vento challenger | Autocar India

Quote from the article:
" will share most mechanical bits with the VW saloon which includes engines as well."
"Sources inside Skoda also claim that the Czech company plans to shake up the market by launching an affordable version of the Rapid, priced in close proximity to Marutiís SX4, which translates to a price (ex-showroom, Delhi) of approximately Rs 7 lakh for the petrol and Rs 7.80 lakh for the diesel."

Seems like an interesting proposition

Also says that the expected launch is around Diwali. Now, do we see some people considering the Vento or the Optra waiting for this one?
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Old 25th June 2011, 15:49   #302
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by Jakku View Post
Thanks Poitive. The result was as my expectation.
=========

Thanks for this advice, yes I will do it that way.
==========

There was one member who explained the way this beast "crawls" up the ramp of malls.
Welcome mate
The climbing "crawling" bit from mall parking lots was mentioned in the Driven! (sister) thread here:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post2361617

PS: @Mods, sorry for the back to back post. I just replied to Jakku's message from a "you have been quoted" PM, and had thought that his reply was after my previous post. Don't know how to merge the two posts and delete this. Please merge this post with the previous one.

Last edited by Poitive : 25th June 2011 at 15:52. Reason: Added PS message for mods
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Old 25th June 2011, 16:43   #303
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Hi Poitive, followed this post quite eagerly and read till the end hoping you would have decided upon some car. Me too undergoing the same dilemma.

Want to add here that I had googled and found that Maruti is coming up with a new diesel engine somewhere mid 2011 (it's official Maruti news and is also in their website). Though somewhat vague it does mention that it will power SX4. Now if its 1.6, and add to it some some interior modifications SX4 would start making sense. Wonder when this will happen...!
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Old 25th June 2011, 16:56   #304
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Time to share some links from the forum guys.

Talk of higher insurance on Diesel cars :(
discussed here:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ars-go-up.html (Insurance on diesel cars to go up)

(link from ET: Buying diesel cars? Get ready to pay more for cover - Economic Times)

New Hyundai Verna ownership report on the forum, as most would already be knowing:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...crdi-sx-o.html (Bringing home the Fluidic Verna CRDi SX(O))

New Ownership report threads on the Optra.
By our regular writer Vishwesh -
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...-lt-black.html (Chevrolet Optra Magnum 2.0 LT - Black)

Latest one by Bydesign -
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post2405599 (New Optra Magnum 2.0 LT [Sandrift Grey])

@SLK, Will we see one from you too?

Manza vs Verito - Whatcar thread (The Manza was chosen, but then has some changes)
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/sedans...ra-verito.html (Tata Manza versus Mahindra Verito)


==================
Other interesting comments on the Optra:

From someone who owns both Optra and Altis (please read the preceding posts too, to get a proper perspective)
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post2360351

From someone who owns both the Optra and Laura
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...tml#post667546 (Chevrolet Optra Magnum TCDi ... My new love ..!!)

(He finds the Laura like an Autoriksha , when compared to the Optra with regards to comfort!)

Last edited by Poitive : 25th June 2011 at 17:00. Reason: Added the Manza vs Verito link.
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Old 25th June 2011, 18:09   #305
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Thanks Poitive for sharing a bunch of good links.

Quote:
Want to add here that I had googled and found that Maruti is coming up with a new diesel engine somewhere mid 2011 (it's official Maruti news and is also in their website). Though somewhat vague it does mention that it will power SX4. Now if its 1.6, and add to it some some interior modifications SX4 would start making sense. Wonder when this will happen...!
@ Anandhja:- that is quite a good news and thanks for sharing the same. Can you post the link as well please. From my short TD experience of SX4 diesel, other than easiness of ingress/ egress, there is nothing more to cheer about it. Yes, of-course you cannot discount the Maruti A.S.S network. Practically, this matters a lot, you don't buy a car every other day, but again, no one buys a car because of it's A.S.S network as well. SX4 diesel is costlier than Linea which is loaded with features and shares the same engine and has a "not-so-bad" A.S.S network. As you rightly said, Maruti needs to rework the interiors of SX4 from scratch and should add a lot of features to it.
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Old 25th June 2011, 18:58   #306
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakku View Post
that is quite a good news and thanks for sharing the same. Can you post the link as well please. From my short TD experience of SX4 diesel, other than easiness of ingress/ egress, there is nothing more to cheer about it. Yes, of-course you cannot discount the Maruti A.S.S network. Practically, this matters a lot, you don't buy a car every other day, but again, no one buys a car because of it's A.S.S network as well. SX4 diesel is costlier than Linea which is loaded with features and shares the same engine and has a "not-so-bad" A.S.S network. As you rightly said, Maruti needs to rework the interiors of SX4 from scratch and should add a lot of features to it.
Jakku, the link on the website of Maruti Suzuki Maruti car plants | Diesel Engine Plan

The second link is from The Economic Times (Nov 30, 2010)
Maruti Suzuki working on diesel engine for mid-size sedan - Economic Times

Alternatively you can Google search with maruti new diesel engine and you'll get quite some results. But I wonder what it really means of SX4? No engine capacities mentioned.
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Old 25th June 2011, 19:38   #307
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakku View Post

@ Anandhja:- that is quite a good news and thanks for sharing the same. Can you post the link as well please. From my short TD experience of SX4 diesel, other than easiness of ingress/ egress, there is nothing more to cheer about it. Yes, of-course you cannot discount the Maruti A.S.S network. Practically, this matters a lot, you don't buy a car every other day, but again, no one buys a car because of it's A.S.S network as well. SX4 diesel is costlier than Linea which is loaded with features and shares the same engine and has a "not-so-bad" A.S.S network. As you rightly said, Maruti needs to rework the interiors of SX4 from scratch and should add a lot of features to it.
Jakku, I had submitted the reply a while ago. But I don't know why it did not appear. In any case here are the links:
Maruti car plants | Diesel Engine Plan
Maruti Suzuki working on diesel engine for mid-size sedan - Economic Times

The first one is from the website of Maruti and second one is an article in Economic Times (of 30 Nov 2010). But none of them talk about the engine displacement. So let's hope for the best. SX4 along with New Swift and i20 are only my radar. Let's see which one I finally buy. I am waiting. I have a timeline of 1 year. Of i20 D I have read scary stories, of its weak AC not providing respite in Delhi's summers and engine lacking power to take it on mall's steep parking slope.
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Old 26th June 2011, 01:08   #308
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by anandjha View Post
Hi Poitive, followed this post quite eagerly and read till the end hoping you would have decided upon some car. Me too undergoing the same dilemma.
Hi Anandjha, My decision was quite clear within the first few pages of this thread. It is my purchase which got delayed mate. I kept going at it largely for others who were following the thread. It was discussed before and this thread was made "formally open" to anyone .

More in the quote from page 15 below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
Now since my purchase has been delayed and the decision is largely clear, I thought that it would be good to keep this thread going for anyone who is considering an inexpensive diesel sedan. Including the New Verna and the New Fiesta in the discussion seems logical. Have written to the Mods to change the title of the thread.

In case people have been (polite and) reluctant in posting queries about their 'what car' questions, please feel free to use this thread.

================================================== ================================================

From now on, let this thread be open to anyone considering a Diesel Sedan upto 12L OTR Delhi.


================================================== ================================================
Hope it helps others taking in taking decisions as well.

As for me, as it may have been rather evident, am leaning towards the Optra Magnum big time. Otherwise it is likely to be the Manza. I would keep sharing thoughts on this thread - just thought that we should increase the scope for everyone, to make the thread more useful.
Please feel free to use this thread for "What car" discussions, if they by and large meet the above criteria.

@Mods, am breaking up my posts into more than one part, based on the topic being discussed. This is to make them simpler to read and not with any disregard to forum norms. Please merge them, in case you feel that it would be simpler to read that way. Thanks.
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Old 26th June 2011, 01:27   #309
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Default Maruti Diesel Engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandjha View Post
Want to add here that I had googled and found that Maruti is coming up with a new diesel engine somewhere mid 2011 (it's official Maruti news and is also in their website). Though somewhat vague it does mention that it will power SX4. Now if its 1.6, and add to it some some interior modifications SX4 would start making sense. Wonder when this will happen...!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakku View Post
Thanks Poitive for sharing a bunch of good links.

@ Anandhja:- that is quite a good news and thanks for sharing the same. Can you post the link as well please. From my short TD experience of SX4 diesel, other than easiness of ingress/ egress, there is nothing more to cheer about it.
About the SX4, also keep the A-Pillar design in mind. It could be a nightmare in the hills. The Manza seemed like a better car to me on the whole. Accept the Tata tag and it's A$$, and it is hugely more VFM. At it's price, SX4 is in Optra LS territory, which makes it a no contest (for me, atleast).

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandjha View Post
In any case here are the links:
Maruti car plants | Diesel Engine Plan
Maruti Suzuki working on diesel engine for mid-size sedan - Economic Times

The first one is from the website of Maruti and second one is an article in Economic Times (of 30 Nov 2010). But none of them talk about the engine displacement. So let's hope for the best. SX4 along with New Swift and i20 are only my radar. Let's see which one I finally buy. I am waiting. I have a timeline of 1 year. Of i20 D I have read scary stories, of its weak AC not providing respite in Delhi's summers and engine lacking power to take it on mall's steep parking slope.
The first one opened a page with Maruti Facilities, and only talked about diesels here:
Quote:
Suzuki Powertrain India Limited is a joint venture of Maruti Suzuki with Suzuki Motor Corporation, Japan.at Manesar. It manufactures world class diesel engines and transmissions for cars.

SMC holds 70 per cent equity in SPIL the rest is held by Maruti Suzuki.

This diesel engine plant has a capacity to manufacture 300,000 diesel engines a year.
I thought Maruti sourced it's diesels from FIAT! Someone please enlighten us about what is happening.

The second link is from ET of Nov, 2010. It states:
Quote:
"Currently work is going on for developing a diesel engine for mid-sized sedans. Our engineers are developing it internally and we are hopeful of getting it ready by mid (of) next year," MSI Managing Director and CEO Shinzo Nakanishi told reporters here.
To begin with, the company is likely to utilise the new engine for launching a diesel version of its premium sedan SX4,he added.

MSI currently sources diesel engines from Fiat for its three models--Swift, DZiRE and Ritz.
The SX4 has already been launched with the Fiat engines. I wonder if Maruti still has plans for a new diesel.

@Anandjha, it would be good for us, if you could keep sharing your research with resources/links on this thread. Thanks mate.

Another thought - SX4 doesn't have enough sales to justify a new engine being developed only for it. Unless it shares it's engine with the Kazashi, it is likely to share it with smaller cars (Swift, Dezire et all), whereby it would end up being a smaller capacity engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandjha View Post
Jakku, I had submitted the reply a while ago. But I don't know why it did not appear.
@Anandjha, your posts may not be appearing right away, because the forum classifies you as a Newbie and posts need to be checked by Moderators. It should change after you have made 25 posts
(please don't post needlessly to increase your post number, as it may offend the mods, besides other readers)

All the best.
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Old 26th June 2011, 18:27   #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
Such cars often need to be driven in gear lower for the same speed. There have also been some (unconfirmed?) reports on the forum, about the ECU mapping being changed, sometime in Nov 2007. Now ideally the TD vehicle should have updated settings, but we never know.

I'd suggest you to take a TD with a different Magnum. Also to factor in a few hundred kms of driving to get used to a diesel, pretty much like SLK recommended.
I checked with Kropex Chevrolet about TDing a newer car and surprisingly, they said that they had only one TD car. Just one. I told the manager that if he sends such cars for TD, no one is ever going to buy a Magnum. He said he'll talk to his management or something. The way these things work, I am not very hopeful though.

But the manager did say that the TD car was a 2009 model. So I guess it would have newer ECU mapping.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLK View Post
That observation is not correct! - there is turbo lag, but its not bad.

The cars I drive on a very regular basis [as I own these] - 5 speed 800, Alto 1.1 Vxi, WagonR. CityZX, Ritz Vdi & latest addition the Optra Magnum.

Diesels have relatively long gears - and putting it to sub 1000rpm in a tall gear is not fair. You got to know the correct gear! and there is almost no lag, don't compare it with the 800cc, b'coz in terms of response in 2nd gear (after say a speedbreaker) it's better than my CityZX or WagonR, just because of short gearing compared to the others.

The Ritz Vdi has more turbo lag than Optra, but I've never had any issues.

Optra has very little tyre noise intruding the cabin at least till 135km/h [haven't gone faster than that], what are you comparing this with?

Don't trust yourself after a short drive - it takes a few 100 or 1000 kms to get used to driving a diesel, No I'm not saying that the trick is to keep it in the power band i.e. 2000+. My Optra is new and I'm not pushing it hard, mostly driven in the sub 2000 rpm range, still no issues with any lag.
I am totally new to diesels and even newer to high-power engines. So it's true that I need to drive a diesel car for a few hundred kilometer to get used to it. With that background, I have a question here about using correct gears. During my TD of Magnum, I was crossing the speed-breakers in second gear and managed to shut down the engine twice. Never happened in the Vento or my old Alto. Not sure if I should have used first gear there. I always use second gear in Alto.

Last edited by khan_sultan : 26th June 2011 at 19:32. Reason: Back to back posts. You can use multi quote feature to quote from multiple posts, rather than reply to each post individually.
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Old 26th June 2011, 20:03   #311
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by bansal98 View Post
I checked with Kropex Chevrolet about TDing a newer car and surprisingly, they said that they had only one TD car. Just one. I told the manager that if he sends such cars for TD, no one is ever going to buy a Magnum. He said he'll talk to his management or something. The way these things work, I am not very hopeful though.
GM does not provide TD cars for Optra. I had to almost do without a TD car. The only car on the showroom was the one on display, which I managed to drive [really short and slow/easy drive] and then bought the same piece!!
New Optras for TD might not happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bansal98 View Post
. . . . . I have a question here about using correct gears. During my TD of Magnum, I was crossing the speed-breakers in second gear and managed to shut down the engine twice. Never happened in the Vento or my old Alto. Not sure if I should have used first gear there. I always use second gear in Alto.
Depends on the speed you have to slow down to for speed breaker. Anything which requires you to go to the idle rpm or push the car slightly below that might make the engine uncomfortable.

Another thing is that, due to tall gearing one does not feel the RPM rising [therefore feels like lack of response] but the speedo climbs. Can't talk about Vento but for the diesels I've driven [old Verna, Ritz, Swift, Magnum] there are speed breakers where first gear is required.

Also, it is really hard to shut off a CRDI diesel unless, you are actually at clear mismatch between gear and speed. So far I have managed to shut down the magnum once when I tried to start from standstill in 3rd
[mistakenly].
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Old 26th June 2011, 23:18   #312
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLK View Post
GM does not provide TD cars for Optra. I had to almost do without a TD car. The only car on the showroom was the one on display, which I managed to drive [really short and slow/easy drive] and then bought the same piece!!
New Optras for TD might not happen.
Really sorry to hear that, but I got a TD for Optra even though it was the older version. But, they have promised me to get a newer model for TD. Let me get the second TD and I will confirm the changes. As per the suggestion from Poitive, I have kept the TD of Optra to the last, else I was to take a TD today. Anyways, I am going to Hyundai for a TD of new Verna 1.4 (that is what they have promised, let me see if I eventually get it) tomorrow. I will definitely post an update tomorrow on this (whether I get or not, if I got which version).
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Old 27th June 2011, 02:03   #313
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by bansal98 View Post
I checked with Kropex Chevrolet about TDing a newer car and surprisingly, they said that they had only one TD car. Just one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLK View Post
GM does not provide TD cars for Optra. I had to almost do without a TD car. The only car on the showroom was the one on display, which I managed to drive [really short and slow/easy drive] and then bought the same piece!!
New Optras for TD might not happen.
I was a lot more fortunate. Took two TD's of Optra totaling to some 80+ kms, if I remember correctly. GM says in their advertizements "Test like you own it" and it really did seem that way. The sales chap didn't hurry me back, unlike most other TD's. the other showroom was sharing one Optra between it's two outlets and had fixed days when the vehicle would be available. I guess it is to do with the focus shifting to the Cruze now. Also that Optra sells a modest 300 odd and it has been around for a while, so many people are already aware of it (or so they presume).

And yes, I also TD Optra again with a fellow Tbhpian to help him with his choice. Haven't been able to check a BS4 version though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLK View Post
Depends on the speed you have to slow down to for speed breaker. Anything which requires you to go to the idle rpm or push the car slightly below that might make the engine uncomfortable.
+1 to what SLK said above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bansal98 View Post
Not sure if I should have used first gear there. I always use second gear in Alto.
Not surprising, as the gearing is very different in those cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakku View Post
Really sorry to hear that, but I got a TD for Optra even though it was the older version. But, they have promised me to get a newer model for TD. Let me get the second TD and I will confirm the changes.
Would look forward to your comparison Jakku. Do keep us posted on this. After reading Bydesign's posts in his ownership thread, please do keep an eye on changes in power delivery. If it is linear, if there is a difference in turbo lag and if you get that sudden burst of torque/power.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakku View Post
Anyways, I am going to Hyundai for a TD of new Verna 1.4 (that is what they have promised, let me see if I eventually get it) tomorrow. I will definitely post an update tomorrow on this (whether I get or not, if I got which version).
Again looking forward to it. Haven't heard of 1.4 diesel Verna reviews, mate.
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Old 27th June 2011, 11:45   #314
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLK View Post
GM does not provide TD cars for Optra. I had to almost do without a TD car. The only car on the showroom was the one on display, which I managed to drive [really short and slow/easy drive] and then bought the same piece!!
New Optras for TD might not happen.
If this is their attitude towards Optra, no wonder people are not buying it in droves, in spite of it being a great car. And this attitude is before the sale, where the company is supposed to be at their best behavior. I can only imagine what would happen once we have plunked down our hard-earned money.

This is no way to treat a decent car. Either phase it out completely or double down on it.
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Old 27th June 2011, 12:24   #315
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by bansal98 View Post
If this is their attitude towards Optra, no wonder people are not buying it in droves, in spite of it being a great car. And this attitude is before the sale, where the company is supposed to be at their best behavior. I can only imagine what would happen once we have plunked down our hard-earned money.

This is no way to treat a decent car. Either phase it out completely or double down on it.
@ Bansal98 -

Pardon me but that has not been the case here in Delhi as Poitive has pointed out in his post as well.

I have TD the Optra 6-7 times and from 3 different dealerships to add to it I have TD the 08, 09 & 10 Optra.

I was also fortunate to TD a 11 Optra but this one was only a few Kms.

The reasons according to me, why the "aam junta" has kept away from Optra are:

1) GM A$$ is still a Q mark. From the inputs that I have received from Optra owners is, GM believes in "REPLACEMENT" rather than "REPAIR" which would dent one's pocket.

2) Poor resale value of the Optra.

3) The extended talk that has been going around of the Optra being shelfed.

4) High price initially, now the prices have been slashed and to make the deal sweeter, there are discounts.

5) Low on gadgets.

@ Poitive - The vehicle that we TD was indeed a BS 4 vehicle manufactured in Oct 10.

After having extensively TD this vehicle and trying to gather every bit of info on it, to me this is the best VFM diesel in it's price category at this point in time.
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