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Old 27th June 2011, 12:42   #316
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

I test drove the Optra Magnum couple of months ago. Atleast at Hyderabad there is no issue regarding TD of Optra. It was readily available and my experience was very good. 'Test like you own it' was how I TDed it and the guys accompanying me had no issues with my rough TD.
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Old 27th June 2011, 14:35   #317
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by bansal98 View Post
This is no way to treat a decent car. Either phase it out completely or double down on it.
Mate, don't let one experience put you off this wonderful car. If a dealer/company is not able to keep TD cars for all it's cars, it would make sense to do away with cars which have been in the market for long or ones which don't have high volumes, as it would need few TD's. In my TD experiences the Linea guy said that they often have 2-3TD's a day. With the Optra the guy said it is 2-3 a month . Adding to Torquedo's list, Optra/Chevy got a bad name in the first few years, which they have found difficult to rub off. They even had to take out a maintenance package and Chevy Promise to assure customers that it will not be expensive to maintain this car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torquedo View Post
@ Bansal98 -

I have TD the Optra 6-7 times and from 3 different dealerships to add to it I have TD the 08, 09 & 10 Optra.

I was also fortunate to TD a 11 Optra but this one was only a few Kms.
============
@ Poitive - The vehicle that we TD was indeed a BS 4 vehicle manufactured in Oct 10.

After having extensively TD this vehicle and trying to gather every bit of info on it, to me this is the best VFM diesel in it's price category at this point in time.
@Torquedo, there were concerns about how the new (post BS4) Optra may be different from the older ones. I think it was brought out by you too. Now you may be in a good position to do the comparison for the rest of us.

During the TD, I also remember you being very concerned about how the new Optra may be to drive. There should have been no concern if we already were driving the new one! The sales guy also said that the TD car was an old one. But sales guys often don't know enough. If it was the new Optra, I indeed was very satisfied with it's power delivery.
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Old 27th June 2011, 14:51   #318
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive


@Torquedo, there were concerns about how the new (post BS4) Optra may be different from the older ones. I think it was brought out by you too. Now you may be in a good position to do the comparison for the rest of us.

During the TD, I also remember you being very concerned about how the new Optra may be to drive. There should have been no concern if we already were driving the new one! The sales guy also said that the TD car was an old one. But sales guys often don't know enough. If it was the new Optra, I indeed was very satisfied with it's power delivery.
Pardon me all, but yes it was me who brought out this tech spec issue on another thread or might be on this thread as well.

There is still no confirmation on the specfications being changed, the brochure started all the confusion which has not been sorted out till date.

The only GM statement that I found thus far on the changes related to BS 4 can be found on the following link:

Fact sheet on BS4

Question 7 very categorically states and I must quote "There is no significant affect on the performance", indicating that there is a change but not a major one.

@Poitive - Yes, we test drove the BS 4 one and I have driven 1 BS 3 Optra, to me there was no major difference, at least I could not figure out.

The problem with the BS 3 Optra that I drove was, the Turbo had gone for a toss, everytime that I crossed the 3.5K mark, the turbo blew away.

The only way to bring it back was to shut down the car and bring it up again. I must add here that the car had done 60K + and was very abused.

Last edited by Torquedo : 27th June 2011 at 14:54.
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Old 27th June 2011, 15:12   #319
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
@Jakku, Thanks for the link. As this is OT here, we should probably be discussing this in the ICE section of the forum or atleast in the Spacious Diesel Sedan (Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L)thread. Briefly- what is good about the Optra is the 'Standard Double-DIN' (that is how it looked- pls confirm before you invest) and you can buy any standard Double-DIN ICE to use with it. Less hassle. Better price. More variety. For me the sound quality is paramount in ICE selection. I love your enthusiasm mate
@ Poitive, firstly I am not sure if this quote will work as I am quoting from a different thread (EDIT:- yes it worked !!!). As rightly pointed by you, moving the discussion to this thread as this will be a better place for this discussion.

Yes, any standard Double-DIN should work, but there is no use if this will just be another music player. I was more interested in other features, like this unit will help for an up-gradation to DVD Changer, will have navigation system (not sure if it has India specific maps), Intelligent Parking System (optional stuff) and Tyre Management System (again optional). There is bluetooth connectivity as well, but not sure if we get a mic (as Optra is not having that system, it will be additional), so doubt the usefulness of this feature.

I have written to "Auto Trendz India" the dealers for CASKA in India to know about the product. Will keep you all posted on what they have to tell (hope they check their mail box and will reply).

Last edited by Jakku : 27th June 2011 at 15:14. Reason: Adding a few words on the first line.
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Old 27th June 2011, 16:02   #320
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If you look at the Honda city thread that wad started recently under initial ownership, the owner has purchased a CASKA for his car. He should be able to provide first hand info on the unit.
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Old 27th June 2011, 16:18   #321
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torquedo View Post
Fact sheet on BS4

===========

@Poitive - Yes, we test drove the BS 4 one
Thanks for the link, Torquedo. It is useful.
Q6 in the above link mentions the changes post BS4 being a New exhaust front pipe assembly and a new ECM calibration.

Though the sales guys talked about it being an older Optra, but I would rather go by your word, given the research you have done on this car mate And given that it was a post BS4 car, I have absolutely no issues with it's power delivery (in fact I loved it). That, in fact, may solve the discrepancy in how the turbolag is felt differently by some of us. (may be to do with pre and post BS4 changes - ECU and exhaust).

We needn't worry too much about those figures now. Jakku's TD may reveal a bit more, when he goes in for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakku View Post
Yes, any standard Double-DIN should work, but there is no use if this will just be another music player. I was more interested in other features, like this unit will help for an up-gradation to DVD Changer, will have navigation system (not sure if it has India specific maps), Intelligent Parking System (optional stuff) and Tyre Management System (again optional). There is bluetooth connectivity as well, but not sure if we get a mic (as Optra is not having that system, it will be additional), so doubt the usefulness of this feature.
I am no ICE expert, but Double-DIN just being a pretty standard size. You should have many options available in it. So you may not be restricted to one Chinese manufacturer for the features you need. Besides the MID (which was talked about in the other thread), other features should work in the Optra, like any other car. A mic should be possible to add (with some wiring if needed). Bluetooth connectivity has little to do with the car as such. It should work. A quick search on ebay revealed this:
Pioneer
Motevo (with GPS)

A trip to a good Car accessory shop and going through the ICE section in the forum can be very useful for you, mate.

PS: The CASKA website link you provided seems impressive at the first look.
PPS: @ Jakku : This is what should work with the Optra. Do confirm before making any purchase.

Last edited by Poitive : 27th June 2011 at 16:26. Reason: Added PS and later PPS
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Old 27th June 2011, 17:36   #322
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Poitive, after reading your thread (and Smartcat's comparison), i felt compelled to take a TD of the Magnum. And i must say i have to thank you guys for it! I'll post my observations below if you dont mind (or if mods feel i can take it to another thread). Now i havent read the entire thread so far so excuse me if i am repeating a few things have been mentioned already. And its gonna be a bit long so bear with me please!


We are looking for a new C segment sedan. Primarily looking at a diesel unless the petrol engine is decent and priced well. Budget was originally around 9-10 lakhs but that was increased a bit as the top variants of most diesels are all around 11 lakhs. Its gonna be used a family car, mostly city use with the occasional long drive. We are five people so the car should be reasonably spacious. Engine should be reasonably powerful and we're looking for at least ABS on the car, if it has airbags then even better. And not too concerned about extra features(like steering controls, bluetooth, etc) but if it does have them then its a bonus.

Following are some of the cars in the segment and my obersvations on them. (Disclaimer: These are all my personal opinions and i dont mean to offend anyone who has any of the cars)

1. SX4 - Didnt even bother taking a look, dont like the car too much and dont think its worth 10.5 lakhs for the ZDI anyway.

2. Linea - Took a TD when it was launched. Somewhat liked the car but not the engine (neither the diesel or NA petrol, Tjet is too expensive). Great features but the rear seat is just ok, nothing great. Niggles and iffy service. Lots more choices for the same price

3. New Verna - OTR 10.65 lakh for 1.6 base and 11.3 for SX variant. No discounts or freebies. Waiting period of 3-5 months quoted. Saw the car and took a TD as well. Looks good, decent engine, good interiors and features. Ride is a bit wallowy but ok, handling is poor and steering is lifeless. Major deal breaker is that the interior space and seating absolutely sucks. The front seats are ok but i felt my swift seats to be more comfortable. And the rear seat is horrible, absolutely no thigh support and no head room either. Pretty much ruled out for that reason. And that the ride felt a bit too wallowy as well.

4. Vento TDI - OTR 11.3 lakh for Highline variant. No discounts or freebies. Waiting period of 6-8 months quoted. Had a look at the car and took a TD of the petrol car. Diesel wasnt available then and showroom experience has been poor, they still havent given me a TD of the diesel. Anyway overall the car is fairly decent, nothing too bad about it but nothing too spectacular either. Decent ride and handling, steering poor but not a deal breaker. Interiors are nice. The rear seat is ok, better than the verna but nothing great either. Ruled out due to rear seat and waiting period.

5. Honda City - 9.2 lakhs for E-MT, 10 lakhs for S-MT and 11 lakhs for V-MT. No other discounts or freebies. Was never in contention earlier but thought i would check it out after the recent price cut. Had taken a TD back around launch time. Was overall a fairly decent car. Rear seat is among the best in the business. Engine decent, ride decent. Interiors very spartan though, plastic quality is downright cheap. No ACC. Dont think the S or V MT are worth it, if i were to get it i was thinking of the EMT. Its mechanically the same as the other two variants and it has airbags and abs. Essential features like music system, fogs, etc can be added on for not too much more. Still not too interested as none of us liked the interiors and its a petrol.

6. Manza - 8.85 lakhs for top end Elan variant. Some offers going on so some discounts to the tune of 10-15k available. Im not too keen on the Manza as i dont like the looks too much and its a "Tata". But the car is fairly competent. Has all the bells and whistles. Ride is decent, handling is acceptable. Engine is a bit underpowered though, i felt that the turbo lag is more than my swift. Rear seat is quite good and right up there along with the Honda City. Im still not too keen and theres the niggles and iffy service as well

7. New Fiesta - Still waiting for the launch but not too sure if its gonna satisfy my requirements. Engine appears to be ok and ride and handling seems to be best in the segment. Rear seat will probably not be too good. Will wait for the launch and see but as of now im not too enthused.

And finally...the car i liked best

8. Optra Magnum - OTR of 11.44 lakhs for LT variant. Cash discount of 30k + plus some accesories. OTR approx 11 lakhs. The minute we sat in the car we knew this was the one we wanted. Its a D segment car for the price of a C segment one. Has all the essential features. Airbags, ABS, ACC, Leather, etc (and a 6 CD changer which is useless nowadays!). Engine is quite good, 121 ps of power and loads of torque. Some amount of turbo lag but its quite manageable. Comparable to if not better than the swift. The midrange is fantastic! Good balance between ride and handling. Interior space is very good, especially in the rear. Comfortably seated three adults and there's acres of legroom! Top of the list for now.

So we are pretty much fixed on the Magnum for now, none of the other cars impressed us that much, especially on the interior space. I know its a dated car and dated engine but its still quite competent. Mileage wont be as good as the other cars as its a heavy car and a big engine. But running costs are lower with diesel anyway so its not a big deal. Only fear is that it might be discontinued but hopefully it wont be anytime soon. Dont want to be stuck for parts later on in the life of the car. Not too concerned about resale value as we are looking to keep the car for 3-5 years. What do you say? Is it a bad decision or should we go ahead? Are there any other cars i have missed out that could be considered?

Thanks!
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Old 27th June 2011, 18:12   #323
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by radiokidb View Post
4. Vento TDI - OTR 11.3 lakh for Highline variant. No discounts or freebies. Waiting period of 6-8 months quoted.
Thanks a lot for your writeup. This is exactly what I was looking for. But are you sure about 6-8 months waiting for Vento? I was quoted 3 months about two weeks back (in Bangalore). 6-8 months is absolutely atrocious.

Your impressions about Magnum mirror my impressions. Absolutely great car, let down by GM's marketing and attitude. As others have pointed out, may be it's only in Bangalore where the dealers are not promoting it as much. Seems like no problem in Delhi etc.

Do keep us posted about final decision.
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Old 27th June 2011, 18:21   #324
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Originally Posted by radiokidb View Post
Poitive, after reading your thread (and Smartcat's comparison), i felt compelled to take a TD of the Magnum. And i must say i have to thank you guys for it! I'll post my observations below if you dont mind (or if mods feel i can take it to another thread).

===========

So we are pretty much fixed on the Magnum for now, none of the other cars impressed us that much, especially on the interior space. I know its a dated car and dated engine but its still quite competent. Mileage wont be as good as the other cars as its a heavy car and a big engine. But running costs are lower with diesel anyway so its not a big deal. Only fear is that it might be discontinued but hopefully it wont be anytime soon. Dont want to be stuck for parts later on in the life of the car. Not too concerned about resale value as we are looking to keep the car for 3-5 years. What do you say? Is it a bad decision or should we go ahead? Are there any other cars i have missed out that could be considered?

Thanks!
Firstly, Feel welcome to post on this thread. I have been encouraging guys to do so, so that this becomes a common sharing ground for diesels upto 12L (upto the New Verna price range) so that we don't have to juggle between threads.

Thanks for sharing your observations mate Am glad that this and smartcat's thread was of use.

Will respond properly later. Briefly - Optra is wonderful, especially if you aren't looking at resale and aren't too enamoured with gizmos. I too was rather concerned about it being discontinued, but it all seems to be a bit speculative and not based any concrete information. Even if it were to get discontinued, I'd be OK with purchasing it, if parts were assured. Comments on this thread (the sister Driven! thread) and elsewhere on this forum have given me reasonable confidence that it would not be a deal breaker. This car is WAY ahead of competition in basics (look out for Khoj's post in this thread - somewhere between pg. 10-14, or before.).

All the best.

Last edited by Poitive : 27th June 2011 at 18:23. Reason: formatting.
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Old 28th June 2011, 01:21   #325
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Went to 3 showrooms -

One in CP - asked to give a full day's notice of a TD vehicle. [and no vehicle on view]
One on Ring road Lajpat Nagar - told maybe by Saturday they will arrange and will call, but never confirmed.
One on Mathura Road - only had a new vehicle on display, no TD vehicle. Not willing to give TD - but gave a brief drive.

I'm sure I could have managed a full TD at one of the first 2 showrooms if I would have followed up consistently, BUT I knew what I wanted, so never bothered. From all the cars we have bought there's just one lesson to learn - unless there is something terribly incompatible in the car, TDs are not useful. The car speaks to your fine inputs only after days/ maybe weeks of driving, and that's when you start to enjoy it.
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Old 28th June 2011, 08:14   #326
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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I'm sure I could have managed a full TD at one of the first 2 showrooms if I would have followed up consistently, BUT I knew what I wanted, so never bothered. From all the cars we have bought there's just one lesson to learn - unless there is something terribly incompatible in the car, TDs are not useful. The car speaks to your fine inputs only after days/ maybe weeks of driving, and that's when you start to enjoy it.
While i agree that it takes much longer than a short test drive to truly get a feel of any car. I feel taking one is still important if not compulsory.
You atleast get an idea of how the car drives, the suspension quality, whether the ergonomics suit you. I also feel that one test drive with just you is fine. But one should take the family too for the second test. It's always good to test how the car behaves with a full load of passengers.
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Old 28th June 2011, 09:45   #327
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Went to 3 showrooms -
From all the cars we have bought there's just one lesson to learn - unless there is something terribly incompatible in the car, TDs are not useful. The car speaks to your fine inputs only after days/ maybe weeks of driving, and that's when you start to enjoy it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdsaab View Post
While i agree that it takes much longer than a short test drive to truly get a feel of any car. I feel taking one is still important if not compulsory.
You atleast get an idea of how the car drives, the suspension quality, whether the ergonomics suit you. I also feel that one test drive with just you is fine. But one should take the family too for the second test. It's always good to test how the car behaves with a full load of passengers.
@ SLK, I have never tested any of the vehicles I own before it was bought, (leave TD alone, never even considered buying them). But, I don't haven even the slightest regret in any of these purchases. So what you are telling is really correct and I can very well connect with it. At the same time, I agree with what mdsaab is telling. A test drive or a feel of the vehicle before we buy will definitely help in looking if we are getting what we want from that or if it suits our requirement. When we are investing to the tunes of 10L+ of our hard earned money, it is always better to get a feel of the vehicle which we will own.
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Old 28th June 2011, 15:55   #328
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

I purchased an Optra this March and I never faced any problems for TD. I had the vehicle for TD as promised and never did have any problems regarding the roads or the distance i wanted to TD the vehicle. The service advisor had just one phrase for me, "Sir, Test drive this vehicle and you would not want any other". After i TD'ed it, i realised he was right. It is a wonderful vehicle and i rightfully went ahead to purchase it.

Regarding resale value of the Optra Magnum Diesel, I did my basic check and it does nt seem to be really worse as projected. The resale value for Petrol is pathetic but not for diesel. Logged in online to First choice (Mahindra's second hand dealership) and checked the value for a 3 yrs old Magnum, it quoted anywhere between 6.3 or 6.5 to 5.75. Even if i take an average price of 6L it would mean 40% depreciation after 3 years. This to me sounds reasonable for a D segment car. I did check with another second hand car dealer who says there are hardly any Optra's in the used car market largely because owners are very happy with the vehicle.

I state this again, I checked with GM helpline this February in terms of retirement plans for Optra and was told clearly that GM has no plans to discontinue Optra. Interestingly 2 days back I saw a masked Chevrolet vehicle on TD in an highway @ Chennai. I could identify it to be a Chevy with the Bow Tie badge which was difficult to mask. It was the size of Aveo not bigger. I managed to click a picture from rear and will try to upload it.

To me, Optra is a beautiful car which has a great balance between ride and handling, acres of space, airy interiors, pretty decent OE music system. 3 yrs CPCO should be a boon.

Jakku & others from Bangalore - I am surprised at the TD Experience. Let me know if there is a KLN motors dealership at Bangalore, I can try talk to the folks here at Chennai to help you with TD out there.

Last edited by visweshkalambur : 28th June 2011 at 15:57.
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Old 28th June 2011, 16:47   #329
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Jakku & others from Bangalore - I am surprised at the TD Experience. Let me know if there is a KLN motors dealership at Bangalore, I can try talk to the folks here at Chennai to help you with TD out there.
Thanks Viswesh for the helping hand.

I had no issues with TD of Optra. I got a good TD and he have promised to get me again if required. Also, I have told him the parking space at my apartment is most important for me and has a veto power to reject a vehicle of my choice. He has even promised me to come to my place to check this out (this guy is more than 30km from my place and don't have any issues on that, wonderful !!! ). The issue I faced was on the version 2011 vis-a-vis 2010. The TD vehicle was of old generation 2010 (read pre BS 4) and there is a change in the power/ torque level of the new 2011 generation (read post BS 4). Also, they have added features of ACC and 6 CD Changer (not sure on the second one) and there was a T-BHPian who was mentioning on the change of leather used. So, when I asked for a TD of the newer version, he was not having one.

There is no considerable change in the power delivery and I am a bit sedate driver so that is not an issue for me anyways. I really loved the vehicle love at first entry, it was really pleasure and getting that premium/ class feeling.
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Old 28th June 2011, 17:50   #330
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

That s great Jakku. I own a 2011 model Optra. Yes, the LT version does have ACC and a Clarion 6 CD changer. It also has a AUX Port. Sound quality is pretty decent for an OEM. It s true that the seat covers dont look pure leather, but it ain't very bad and cannot discard it to be bad. It does look good (to me) and is fitted pretty well. I had confirmed on a different thread from my user manual that there has not been any change on the Torque and power of the engine in the 2011 Optra. Yes, it does have turbolag below 1800 rpm, but that is a matter of getting used to the vehicle.
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