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Old 29th June 2011, 16:39   #346
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by visweshkalambur View Post
I got the vehicle with CPCO and they charged me around Rs. 27, 500 to 28,000 for the same. My reasons to go for it are

1. It covers service cost for 3 years or 45000 kms (including the warranty period of 2 years)
2. It takes care of your regular oil change and labour charges for all service. Am not sure if it covers the cost for water wash. Oil change is recommended in the first 5000 kms then once every 10000 kms subsequently. Optra uses Mineral Oil which could cost approx around 2500 to 3000 to drain and replace once.
3. You will get service at the intervals of 1st month, 6th month and 6months from the previous services for 3 years or 45000 kms which makes it 10 services (1st month + once every 6 months for 3 years).
4. Considering 5 Oil changes (Aprox Rs. 15000), Atleast Rs. 500 - 1000 as labour charges as average (Rs. 5000 to Rs. 10000 over 10 services)

This makes it around Rs. 20000 - Rs. 25000 in itself. The additional amount is for any parts worn out in the usual cycle of 30000 kms.

I think it made sense to me given the above and hence i opted for it.

In addition they also give you 3 coupons for free wheel alignment which covers another Rs. 1500
Thanks for laying it down so clearly. I too strongly believe in buying warranties (from the original manufacturer). It pinches a little at that time but it's totally worth it for the piece of mind it brings. And if you really calculate, as you have done, it's not all that much more than regular servicing. In fact, it might end up costing you less.
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Old 29th June 2011, 17:48   #347
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Pleasure Bansal, I am glad i could be of help.
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Old 29th June 2011, 17:51   #348
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by khoj View Post
Yes, the petrol tank opening by design is kept on the side opposite from the driver's seat. Since Optra was initially a LHD the Petrol lid was on the right and this has been retained even though the car is configured as RHD for our market.

Japan is a RHD country just like ours so their cars always get it on the correct side(for us) that is the left.

You can see a similar anomaly in the wiper/light stalks combination.
Even the Daewoo Matiz is configured this way.
Indicator stalks on the left of the steering.
Wiper on the right.
as for the fuel lid ~ it's on the right side too.
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Old 29th June 2011, 20:42   #349
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by mdsaab View Post
Even the Daewoo Matiz is configured this way.
Indicator stalks on the left of the steering.
Wiper on the right.
as for the fuel lid ~ it's on the right side too.
That pretty well explains it. Maybe its Daewoo trait. The Optra (originally Daewoo Lacetti) comes from the same family. I think even the Cruze have the fuel lid on right side.
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Old 29th June 2011, 21:24   #350
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by khoj View Post
Yes, the petrol tank opening by design is kept on the side opposite from the driver's seat. Since Optra was initially a LHD the Petrol lid was on the right and this has been retained even though the car is configured as RHD for our market.

Japan is a RHD country just like ours so their cars always get it on the correct side(for us) that is the left.

You can see a similar anomaly in the wiper/light stalks combination.
Got it! In US, my Corolla had it on left (driver side) due to the same reason whereas my Malibu has it on the right!
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Old 30th June 2011, 02:49   #351
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Default TD/Decision process and Resale Value

@Mods, have a lot to say, so one long post may not be as readable, hence am dividing them based on topics addressed. In case you feel it would be better to merge them please do so. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLK View Post
From all the cars we have bought there's just one lesson to learn - unless there is something terribly incompatible in the car, TDs are not useful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakku View Post
@ SLK, I have never tested any of the vehicles I own before it was bought, (leave TD alone, never even considered buying them). But, I don't haven even the slightest regret in any of these purchases. So what you are telling is really correct and I can very well connect with it.
I fully respect your opinions guys, but alongwith am also quite surprised. It is so very different from how many others (including me) approach this decision. Am curious to how you make up your mind about purchasing a specific car.

I remember SLK's comment which sounded so very casual about how he would just pick up the car (was when we talked about a possible downsizing of the engine and how one should purchase it before that).

~~~~~~~~~~~

About getting TD's, the experience seems rather inconsistent. Some of us have had poor experiences. Some very good. I had a poor experience from one dealer and 2-3 very good ones from the other. In this post (Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L)before, Highflyer mentions how an Optra was driven 80kms to give him a TD!

It suggests what is there on the forum's Test Drives section about it's service - inconsistent! Guess those of us who buy an Optra will have to find the right dealer for servicing it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Quote:
Originally Posted by visweshkalambur View Post
Regarding resale value of the Optra Magnum Diesel, I did my basic check and it does nt seem to be really worse as projected. The resale value for Petrol is pathetic but not for diesel. Logged in online to First choice (Mahindra's second hand dealership) and checked the value for a 3 yrs old Magnum, it quoted anywhere between 6.3 or 6.5 to 5.75. Even if i take an average price of 6L it would mean 40% depreciation after 3 years. This to me sounds reasonable for a D segment car. I did check with another second hand car dealer who says there are hardly any Optra's in the used car market largely because owners are very happy with the vehicle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdsaab View Post
@40% depreciation after 3 years. Sounds like it retains it value pretty decently.
Diesel cars almost always have a great resale value. and so the resale value conscious buyer is always better off buying a diesel. Yes you also have to factor in the premium you pay for the diesel engine, but it sort of balances itself off, what with the better mileage and cheaper fuel price. So the better resale value is truly the icing on the cake.
There has been a LOT of talk about Optra's poor resale value. Even from the little research I did, there were very very few Optra Diesel's available in the market under 30k/3yrs - almost none. Another member had as similar experience which has been shared on this thread. So there seems to be little reason to believe that Optra diesel has poor resale. It probably is just the bad name which the Optra petrol managed, which got carried on to the diesel one too.

From what Viswesh found above, the Optra now probably makes financial sense too. Almost a from the head choice too (can't add more smileys here - the rule book doesn't allow it.)

Oh! the rule book reminds me - if one is quoting, one should avoid quoting a big post only to add a line or two. Or atleast edit the text of the quote to what really is needed to keep the post crisp. Would make for better reading on this thread too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by visweshkalambur View Post
Interestingly 2 days back I saw a masked Chevrolet vehicle on TD in an highway @ Chennai. I could identify it to be a Chevy with the Bow Tie badge which was difficult to mask. It was the size of Aveo not bigger. I managed to click a picture from rear and will try to upload it.
It quite matches what we have been 'guessing' here. An Aveo replacement being on the cards. Looking forward to the picture. Please do upload it mate. Thanks.
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Old 30th June 2011, 03:10   #352
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by visweshkalambur View Post
Yes, it does have turbolag below 1800 rpm, but that is a matter of getting used to the vehicle.
Turbolag is pretty hyped!

To me, it seems that a lot of people who talk about it are ones who have not really driven Turbo/Diesel vehicles. If one starts with an expectation of getting a petrol like feel, one is disappointed and feels a lot of lag. Though it is not a non issue, it really largely is a matter of getting used to different power delivery of the car in question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bansal98 View Post
But are you sure about 6-8 months waiting for Vento? I was quoted 3 months about two weeks back (in Bangalore). 6-8 months is absolutely atrocious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by radiokidb View Post
Yep i was quoted 6-8 months by Volkswagen Palace Cross for the Highline variant.
My guess - The variation in waiting period could be because of a phenomenon called "The Fluidic Effect"

Quote:
Originally Posted by radiokidb View Post
When are you planning to make your purchase btw?
As mentioned before - it stands postponed indefinitely.
But we are a crazy lot. Things can change in moments with us! So in other words - I have NO idea. Hope the Magnum will still be around when I am ready to buy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by radiokidb View Post
Edit: One more thing, i felt that the old alloy design looked far better (the multi spoke one). The current ones look rather boring! Any idea if those are still available?
AFAIK, they aren't available anymore. But don't take my word for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by khoj View Post
Yes, the petrol tank opening by design is kept on the side opposite from the driver's seat. Since Optra was initially a LHD the Petrol lid was on the right and this has been retained even though the car is configured as RHD for our market.

Japan is a RHD country just like ours so their cars always get it on the correct side(for us) that is the left.

You can see a similar anomaly in the wiper/light stalks combination.
Thanks for the info mate.

I remember reading somewhere that whether the fuel tank opening is on the left or right can be seen from which side the nozzle is in the fuel icon on the dash. It does seem to be correct in many cars, but have seen anomalies. @Khoj, if you have any info on this, please share.

I have a limited idea of which markets the Daewoo Lancetti/Nubira was designed for. The Hyundai cars (also from Korea, like Daewoo) seem to be configured for RHD. Was the Lancetti primarily made for American (or other LHD markets) even though it was by a Korean company?

PS: One of the major gripes I do have with the Optra is that the indicator controls are on the left, and hence are on the side of the gear lever - gear lever and indicator controls are meant to be on opposite sides due to safety reasons (one can still change gears and use the indicators simultaneously).
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Old 30th June 2011, 03:49   #353
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Default Maintenance package and Chevy Promise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by radiokidb View Post
Also have you done any research on the CPOCC package (3 year maintenance package). I was quoted 31499 for the package and it includes all labour and consumables for 3 years/45k km (expect battery and tyres). From what i have read till now its not much of a saving and not worth blocking 30k for. Any thoughts?
Thoughts below mate
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoRules View Post
How much would it typically cost you to keep the car serviced regularly? Can anyone give an estimate of cost to be incurred on mandatory servicing?
32.5/31.5k, based on Chevy Promise. More info below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakku View Post
Also there is one more thing, if you buy CPCO, the warranty automatically shoots up to 5 years/ 100,000KM (this by itself is a boon).
Seriously doubt this, Jakku. Please make your checks before proceeding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by radiokidb View Post
And about the fuel pump issue you have mentioned, wouldnt that be covered under warranty anway? Not only fuel pump, any major items which fail would have to be covered by the warranty.
Rodeo had a fuel pump issue and shared his experience on this thread's "sister thread" (Driven! thread) - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...sx4-manza.html

There was in issue with the fuel pump in Magnums a few years ago. AFAIK, they were replaced free of cost to those who complained (not a recall, as one would expect from, say a Toyota).

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoRules View Post
I do not think the warranty gets increased to 5 years / 100k kms. By taking the CPCO you get 3 years / 45k kms Chevy promise only. I would still recommend it.

Link: Chevrolet commitments & promises on different carlines
The reasons I see to go in for it are :
(1) Convenience (2) Small saving (3) Lesser hassles of claims, IF needed. Any other reasons mate?

Copied from an older post by me (#172):
"I too felt a bit unsure when you mentioned about the maintenance package. Have just pulled out the price list etc. which is from Jan-Feb 2011. It says 2 years-50k warranty(petrol is 3yrs/100k). Extended warranty 1yr/20k for about 10k, 2 yrs/40k for about 18k. Maintenance package is 3yrs/28k. It also says "Only expense incurred in 3 years is the cost of fuel. No other expense. Contact Sales Consultants for details." One can expect fine print in the actual contract."

From what I understand, the Chevy promise comes with the car anyway and doesn't need to be purchased. The promise being "Max. Maintenance Expense of Rs.32,499/-* for 3years/45,000 kms..." (the website link by NoRules says Rs31,499 though)

So instead of paying the normal service and maintenance charges of 32.5k/31.5k, one pays 28k. A saving of 4.5/3.5k by paying upfront and some convenience. If it goes beyond the 32.5/32.5k it would mean claims from Chevy. By paying upfront, one is also saving that potential hassle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by visweshkalambur View Post
In addition they also give you 3 coupons for free wheel alignment which covers another Rs. 1500
Mate, In Delhi we get them done for about Rs.150-200/- But it may be a bit different for the independent suspension in the Optra. This is one easy area to save some bucks - Get alignment and balancing done outside the A$$.
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Old 30th June 2011, 07:53   #354
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

i agree the indicator stalks on the side of the gear lever can get irritating. It takes some time to get used to. But now it's pretty much second fiddle for me.
The matiz i drive is configured this way and is a manual.
The Civic i drive is configured properly for Indian conditions and is an AT.
But yet i manage to drive both without goofing up the indicator and wiper stalks etc.
So it's just a matter of getting use to it. I have seen my driver try and use the indicator in the matiz but actually reached for the indicator stalks. He got a few shocks what with the sudden wiper movement at Hi-speed. But eventually he got used to it too.
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Old 30th June 2011, 11:37   #355
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
Turbolag is pretty hyped!

To me, it seems that a lot of people who talk about it are ones who have not really driven Turbo/Diesel vehicles. If one starts with an expectation of getting a petrol like feel, one is disappointed and feels a lot of lag. Though it is not a non issue, it really largely is a matter of getting used to different power delivery of the car in question.
What you are saying about the background of people complaining about turbo lag seems to be true. But that does not change the fact that turbo lag is present. Just because we get used to it over time, doesn't mean it's not there. I have taken TD of both Vento and Optra diesel and Vento was a pleasure to drive. With five people on-board and AC on, it had no problem pulling cleanly.

As I have said before, the greatest need for the enhanced torque is in lower gears when driving in the city, especially in a speedbreaker-infested place like Bangalore. And I found that Optra was lacking in this regard. It's not bad in absolute terms and I might get used to it. It's just that I expected more from a 2L engine.
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Old 30th June 2011, 14:22   #356
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by Poitive View Post

My guess - The variation in waiting period could be because of a phenomenon called "The Fluidic Effect"
Yup, it seems correct, there is a mad rush for this vehicle. Will Fiesta's much awaited launch ease it out? Let's wait and watch.

As suggested by Poitive, I had planned for a TD of Verna then Optra and then Verna again today, but the first guy didn't turn up for the TD. Their attitude is also very bad and were not apologetic or even regretting in their tone, but were arrogant telling, that is the kind of interest in the vehicle!!!!!. Again, I was looking for 1.4L version, but they do not have one for TD, but the second Verna guy had promised me to take me to their yard and give me a TD insider their facility for about 2km to get a feel of the vehicle !!! Strange enough, if I do this and eventually not buy the same piece, this will go to some other hands who is never ever aware that this was a "test" vehicle and I am sure, I would not be the single person who would demand this.

Quote:
Hope the Magnum will still be around when I am ready to buy.
Even my case is the same, waiting endlessly for the information on transfer. As after buying if I am transferred, I will have to shell out a lot of money (as I intend to buy on CLC).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
Thoughts below mate


32.5/31.5k, based on Chevy Promise. More info below.


Seriously doubt this, Jakku. Please make your checks before proceeding.
.

I will check, I am not that sure on the years (if it is 4/ 5 years), but I am sure it gets shot to 100K kms.

Last edited by Jakku : 30th June 2011 at 14:27. Reason: Quoting and grammatical changes.
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Old 30th June 2011, 14:36   #357
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by Jakku View Post

Even my case is the same, waiting endlessly for the information on transfer. As after buying if I am transferred, I will have to shell out a lot of money (as I intend to buy on CLC).
+1 to that. Even I am planning to take Optra Magnum under CLC in Bangalore. My company is finalizing the agreement with Orix for CLC and mostly I will be one of the first people to avail it. Do you have any data on what the EMI will look for Optra Magnum LT on a 5 year tenure?
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Old 30th June 2011, 23:00   #358
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by prabhuferrari View Post
+1 to that. Even I am planning to take Optra Magnum under CLC in Bangalore. My company is finalizing the agreement with Orix for CLC and mostly I will be one of the first people to avail it. Do you have any data on what the EMI will look for Optra Magnum LT on a 5 year tenure?
@Prabhu, we do not have an option for 5 years, max is 4 years. For the same EMI would be Rs.28,453/- and after 4 years the residual value would be Rs.203775/- (plus applicable taxes) if you need the vehicle, else they will take it and we can lease another vehicle. Effective IRR for this lease is 13.8%. Hope this is helpful for you.
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Old 1st July 2011, 01:37   #359
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdsaab View Post
i agree the indicator stalks on the side of the gear lever can get irritating. It takes some time to get used to.
========
So it's just a matter of getting use to it.
I see this as a safety issue mdsaab (explained a bit in the previous post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bansal98 View Post
What you are saying about the background of people complaining about turbo lag seems to be true. But that does not change the fact that turbo lag is present. Just because we get used to it over time, doesn't mean it's not there. I have taken TD of both Vento and Optra diesel and Vento was a pleasure to drive. With five people on-board and AC on, it had no problem pulling cleanly.

As I have said before, the greatest need for the enhanced torque is in lower gears when driving in the city, especially in a speedbreaker-infested place like Bangalore. And I found that Optra was lacking in this regard. It's not bad in absolute terms and I might get used to it. It's just that I expected more from a 2L engine.
I respect that you did have a bad experience in your TD. We did discuss the reasons for it a page or so back with specific inputs from SLK.

Now, I am not trying to say whether or not there is turbolag in the Optra or not or comparing it to the Vento (that is a separate point). The limited point I was trying to make was that the whole issue of Turbolag is given more importance than it deserves, IMO. It takes a while to get used to it and for most, that period would seem insignificant over the life of the car. It really is not too bothersome once one has been with the car. You too may share this view, after you have spent a few thousand kms on one.

Some people may however never really feel comfortable with it, so it is better to proceed with caution. Just don't give up on the car without due consideration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakku View Post
YAgain, I was looking for 1.4L version, but they do not have one for TD, but the second Verna guy had promised me to take me to their yard and give me a TD insider their facility for about 2km to get a feel of the vehicle !!! Strange enough, if I do this and eventually not buy the same piece, this will go to some other hands who is never ever aware that this was a "test" vehicle and I am sure, I would not be the single person who would demand this.
From what I understand and read on the forum, this is not really uncommon. So don't give up on the Verna/Hyundai/dealer for this reason mate.

************************

In other happenings, besides the Optra, a member reported a horrid experience with the MANZA. It can be read on the following link:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/sedans...ml#post2411193 (Tata Manza versus Mahindra Verito)

Anyone with experience on how to address such an issue, please guide him.

If anyone has contact info of the 'right' people in Tata Motors, sharing it with him may help a lot.
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Old 1st July 2011, 08:36   #360
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by mdsaab View Post
So it's just a matter of getting use to it. I have seen my driver try and use the indicator in the matiz but actually reached for the indicator stalks. He got a few shocks what with the sudden wiper movement at Hi-speed. But eventually he got used to it too.
That's so true, and I think this topic has come up in many other threads as well. I personally am so acclimatized to having the indicator stalks on the left. On this topic, I read an interesting comment (not sure in which thread), that the indicator stalks on the left is better from a safety point of view, because it kind of ensure that your right hand is always on the steering wheel

Coming back to the original topic (spacious sedan under 12L).
Apologies that I have not read through the whole set of posts, but on a safety + backseat comfort combination, which will be best option from these Vento, Linea, New Fiesta and the Optra?
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