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Old 5th April 2011, 00:46   #31
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

With due respect; I feel the Optra is now a gen old if not two.
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Old 5th April 2011, 01:05   #32
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

I recommend you try out the SX4 Diesel, the Vento TDI and the Fia Linea MJD. All good cars with decent space. The Linea should offer quite a lot of space as opposed to the SX4, which is a strict 4-seater, unless you decide to squeeze a 5th.

Have you considered a pre-owned Innova? It's a diesel and has lots of space.

Wait for the new Verna and the new Fiesta. I'm not sure of the space both have to offer, but rest assured, both should cars will be powered by fantastic diesel engines.

I suggest you stay away from the Optra. Depreciation, out-dated looks and lack of appeal are the reasons I'd like to stress on.
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Old 5th April 2011, 01:16   #33
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

@ Poitive
This is a good topic you have started. I'm sure there are atleast a few members here who have the same question in mind. I'm one of them!!!

I would suggest you to wait for the launch of ANHV and the new Fiesta. Decide after test driving them. The ANHV with its two diesel options seems to be a very capable car and loaded with all the bells and whistles.

As you intend to keep the car for 7-8 years, you would practically live with the car. I would advice you to wait for the new kids on the block before taking the plunge.

For me, the Optra is a decent car with a great engine. But the handling and suspension set-up spoils all the fun that the engine is capable of.
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Old 5th April 2011, 02:27   #34
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
That will be a blinder. Will beat the hell out of vento/sx4/linea/verna ie a segment below.



No no no no no.
Vento is not only jack of all trades. It has the best performance here and the nicest gearshift. The engine triumphs over the others. Be it in the low revs, mid revs or high revs.
Oxyzen, The second TD I had for the Optra was right after the Vento. In less than an hour. The Optra with it's bigger engine felt a lot smoother and seemed to perform a lot better. The handling (bodyroll) was better in the Vento though. Sharp cornering may be better in the Vento, but otherwise my marks go to the Optra.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rosh_aveo1.4 View Post
I own an Optra petrol, so I am not clear on the diesel part but I know for a fact that it's way more fun than any of the current diesel cars in the same price and keeping gizmo's one side (the only thing I think of that is missing is steering remote and non USB player), I am not sure there are currently any vehicles out there, that has:
1) the immense space,
2) the crazy engine power,
3) the comparitively lower maintenance (with the 3 year plan that comes with the car),
4) all disc brakes (not sure which car in it's price has it, save for Linea T Jet),
5) pretty sturdy build quality
6) stable ride quality

It may not be an actual driver's car like the Fiesta (the steering feel is not that communicative) but it does the job none the less.

So yes, it's old but in the same price range, I can't think of anything better.
It may be my opinion, but I just feel all other cars in it's price range, kind of feel a class lower. The Vento, which is so perfect, the only thing that detered me was it's space and it's overall size/presence in the road.
When I drove it, I too really wondered if something like this could be available at this price. Does seem to be a case of poor marketing. Yes, (from the TD's) I too had similar impressions about the Optra, which is why I strongly entertain the thought of buying it, despite the cons of suspect service/spares availability, poor resale (whatever it may matter after 5-7 years), product getting shelved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
Yes Optra is an excellent product marketed terribly. It had everything:
Torque,power,space,ride. Still no one has even come close to this car as of now.
320NM assures some serious pull. If only the lag was not present and the Handling was a bit better.
About the Turbolag - I didn't feel it as much. Also read it on some post in another thread that the ECU was remapped and the turbolag got considerably lesser.

There was also some talk about further remapping with newer emission norms, increasing the BHP, but reducing the Torque (albeit the peak torque being reached at a lower RPM -Sorry, can't recollect the figures). Wonder if that would have had an effect on the Turbolag

@Drive or Die, in case you are listening, you could comment on the turbolag on the Optra, since so many of you have recently bought the Optra TCDi's
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Old 5th April 2011, 08:58   #35
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Just wanted to mention here that in case the company i.e GM stops supplying parts.
One could always purchase from the open market. We own a 2000 Matiz, and any parts we have required so far have been bought from local spare parts shops.
Now Daewoo is totally out of India, but yet we can get the parts.
GM is very much in India so i dont think parts availability will be too much of a concern.
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Old 5th April 2011, 11:48   #36
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitin.rai View Post
If you find the Vento cramped (not that it is the most spacious) then you probably need to upgrade to the next segment.
I would safely presume that the new Fiesta & Verna RB (a.k.a. Accent worldwide) would NOT have more space than the Vento.

Considering your requirement and budget a Manza seems a good bet. Do TD; it is a great vehicle for the price.

Fiesta Interiors
Verna RB interiors
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitin.rai View Post
With due respect; I feel the Optra is now a gen old if not two.
Manza is very much on the cards, Nitin. Is the likely choice if one doesn't go for the Optra. About what I mean by spacious, I'll explain below in the same post.

It is great to be pampered with links like yours. Already love this forum. Thanks Nitin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
I recommend you try out the SX4 Diesel, the Vento TDI and the Fia Linea MJD. All good cars with decent space. The Linea should offer quite a lot of space as opposed to the SX4, which is a strict 4-seater, unless you decide to squeeze a 5th.

Have you considered a pre-owned Innova? It's a diesel and has lots of space.

Wait for the new Verna and the new Fiesta. I'm not sure of the space both have to offer, but rest assured, both should cars will be powered by fantastic diesel engines.

I suggest you stay away from the Optra. Depreciation, out-dated looks and lack of appeal are the reasons I'd like to stress on.
Suhas, have tried out all these. My little observations and views about them have been posted in the first few posts of this thread.

Didn't consider the Innova seriously. Typically the car will be used with just 1-2 people aboard. The Innova (and MPV's in general) seem the kind one would want to be driven in, then be driving - it is just my personal (biased?) view. Somehow just don't relate to driving an MPV. Though the Innova is a wonderful vehicle and amongst the best VFM vehicles on our roads.

Now, What do I mean by spacious?
When I say spacious, I am not referring to more people or more luggage. What I do mean is 4 adults (some of them largely built) sitting with ample comfort. Enough legroom and headroom for 6' people. Also to be able to accommodate a fifth for intra-city travel.

Taking it further from what Nitin said above -
Why do I find the Vento cramped?
The biggest issue was that I could not even sit straight in the rear seat. Am 6', which many Indians are. It was a shocker for me. A car as popular can't seat a 6' tall person normally. Which also made me think that even people who are, say 5'-10" would be sitting scared of the next irregularity/speed breaker on the road.

Another thing about the space/comfortable sitting
One thing that makes sitting while driving comfortable for me is what I can term as the "knee room". What I am referring to is how wide I can spread my knees. Now, with the newer cars, the central console protrudes out quite a lot and hampers this space. The central consoles are also getting wider, further restricting this space. In the older generation cars, this wasn't so and I hence find them more comfortable. Surprisingly, am comfortable in the Accent! (even though the ingress and egress is rather uncomfortable)
@Suhas, the above is what makes the older styled cars a bit more appealing to me. The Optra very much feels a generation or more older, but that is what probably makes it still affordable. A more modern version of it should sell for some 12-13L (base level Cruze?)

As you rightly said Suhas, I'll almost be living with the car, which is why I am more cautious than normal. Almost surely will wait to check out the new Fiesta and Verna.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAS View Post
@ Poitive
This is a good topic you have started. I'm sure there are atleast a few members here who have the same question in mind. I'm one of them!!!

I would suggest you to wait for the launch of ANHV and the new Fiesta. Decide after test driving them. The ANHV with its two diesel options seems to be a very capable car and loaded with all the bells and whistles.

As you intend to keep the car for 7-8 years, you would practically live with the car. I would advice you to wait for the new kids on the block before taking the plunge.

For me, the Optra is a decent car with a great engine. But the handling and suspension set-up spoils all the fun that the engine is capable of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdsaab View Post
Just wanted to mention here that in case the company i.e GM stops supplying parts.
One could always purchase from the open market. We own a 2000 Matiz, and any parts we have required so far have been bought from local spare parts shops.
Now Daewoo is totally out of India, but yet we can get the parts.
GM is very much in India so i dont think parts availability will be too much of a concern.
Thanks for sharing this mdsaab. It increases the confidence in going for it. For the past decade and a half, have almost never tried for spared outside the authorized service centres. I just hope the Optra has sold enough numbers for spare part manufacturers to manufacture it's spares (especially the less frequently used ones).

The Matiz is one hell of a vehicle in terms of space management.
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Old 5th April 2011, 12:01   #37
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidindica View Post
.......... Or else, search heard for a pre owned optra magnum TCDi. Get in touch with "chevrolet OK promise" or other pre owned dealers. Why not start your search for a pre owned Cruze? Try hard and you can find some. But if spares should be a concern, wait for the Verna RB. Just 15-20 days more.
I did search online for a pre owned Cruze. Most were 11L upwards. Way out of budget, especially for a pre owned. (like to budget approx 1L extra for buying a pre-owned due to increased and more expensive maintainence, besides usually lower FE)

@Sidindica Could you please elaborate on the Chevrolet OK promise? Is this a used car division of Chevy?

(@Mods, since this post was within 30 mins of the previous post, wanted to edit that, however the previous post is waiting for approval from mods, hence is not visible to me to be edited. That is why this separate post.
PS: This is a wonderful and very active forum. Good work!)
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Old 5th April 2011, 12:23   #38
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
Didn't consider the Innova seriously. Typically the car will be used with just 1-2 people aboard. The Innova (and MPV's in general) seem the kind one would want to be driven in, then be driving - it is just my personal (biased?) view. Somehow just don't relate to driving an MPV. Though the Innova is a wonderful vehicle and amongst the best VFM vehicles on our roads.

Now, What do I mean by spacious?
When I say spacious, I am not referring to more people or more luggage. What I do mean is 4 adults (some of them largely built) sitting with ample comfort. Enough legroom and headroom for 6' people. Also to be able to accommodate a fifth for intra-city travel.

Taking it further from what Nitin said above -
Why do I find the Vento cramped?
The biggest issue was that I could not even sit straight in the rear seat. Am 6', which many Indians are. It was a shocker for me. A car as popular can't seat a 6' tall person normally. Which also made me think that even people who are, say 5'-10" would be sitting scared of the next irregularity/speed breaker on the road.

Another thing about the space/comfortable sitting
One thing that makes sitting while driving comfortable for me is what I can term as the "knee room". What I am referring to is how wide I can spread my knees. Now, with the newer cars, the central console protrudes out quite a lot and hampers this space. The central consoles are also getting wider, further restricting this space. In the older generation cars, this wasn't so and I hence find them more comfortable. Surprisingly, am comfortable in the Accent! (even though the ingress and egress is rather uncomfortable)
@Suhas, the above is what makes the older styled cars a bit more appealing to me. The Optra very much feels a generation or more older, but that is what probably makes it still affordable. A more modern version of it should sell for some 12-13L (base level Cruze?)

As you rightly said Suhas, I'll almost be living with the car, which is why I am more cautious than normal. Almost surely will wait to check out the new Fiesta and Verna.
I'm 6'2" and I know exactly what you mean. Very few cars out there give you the breathing space that you require. Due to my large frame, I'm uncomfortable in almost any car that's positioned under 8 lakhs.

And since space is a priority, I would suggest you take a look at a pre-owned diesel Innova. It may not offer you great driving pleasure, but it is a fantastic mile-muncher and absolutely eats distances without headaches. It has enough space for four 6 foot+ adults and their luggage. And if the necessity to include a 5th passenger arises, the Innova will accommodate without a fuss.

From what I can see, the Innova fits your requirements absolutely perfectly. It has the space, it has a diesel engine and is a great long-distance cruiser. Find yourself a low mileage, good example. There are plenty out there.

I honestly believe that you'll be completely satisfied with it. Forget the fact that it is an MPV. That shouldn't bother you once you're behind the wheel and on the open road.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 5th April 2011 at 12:26.
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Old 5th April 2011, 13:32   #39
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
I'm 6'2" and I know exactly what you mean. Very few cars out there give you the breathing space that you require. Due to my large frame, I'm uncomfortable in almost any car that's positioned under 8 lakhs.

And since space is a priority, I would suggest you take a look at a pre-owned diesel Innova. It may not offer you great driving pleasure, but it is a fantastic mile-muncher and absolutely eats distances without headaches. It has enough space for four 6 foot+ adults and their luggage. And if the necessity to include a 5th passenger arises, the Innova will accommodate without a fuss.

From what I can see, the Innova fits your requirements absolutely perfectly. It has the space, it has a diesel engine and is a great long-distance cruiser. Find yourself a low mileage, good example. There are plenty out there.

I honestly believe that you'll be completely satisfied with it. Forget the fact that it is an MPV. That shouldn't bother you once you're behind the wheel and on the open road.
Day to day driving is a priority for me, Suhas. A typical week would involve a lot of city driving with parking the car at various places and a few city-suburb (Delhi-Noida/Greater Noida and Delhi-Gurgaon) trips. Parking seems to be an issue with the Innova. Getting ample parking space in today's parking lots an even bigger one. Had I to be driven around, was very likely to have gone for it. But in my case, since about 90% of the usage is going to be alone (or with one more person), Innova seems a tad too large. Also, if I was to have a lot of regular highway trips, it would probably been the ideal choice. Innova's endurance and reliability are pretty much legendary.

Now given your size too, just in case you haven't tried it, do look up a Manza the next time you are on the lookout for a car in that (or even 2-4L higher) price range. The space and sitting posture etc are very well suited to a person with a large frame.
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Old 5th April 2011, 14:07   #40
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAS View Post
@ Poitive
This is a good topic you have started. I'm sure there are atleast a few members here who have the same question in mind. I'm one of them!!!

I would suggest you to wait for the launch of ANHV and the new Fiesta. Decide after test driving them. The ANHV with its two diesel options seems to be a very capable car and loaded with all the bells and whistles.

As you intend to keep the car for 7-8 years, you would practically live with the car. I would advice you to wait for the new kids on the block before taking the plunge.

For me, the Optra is a decent car with a great engine. But the handling and suspension set-up spoils all the fun that the engine is capable of.
Mas, With so many posts being answered together, I got your post a bit mixed up with another.

About the Optra's handling and suspension - In a way, I find it better for everyday use. The so called "driver's cars" may be better with firmer suspensions and for higher speed cornering, but come on, I don't want to be racing on city roads all the time. Am willing to compromise a bit on that and take a slightly softer suspension to make everyday drives a bit more comfortable and feeling less tired after a work day in which I may have driven 100 odd kms. And for the thrills we always have the 120BHP and 300+ torque . Also expect it will make highway travel a lot less tiring, allowing one to travel for longer hours and distances in a day. It may not suit a lot of "enthusiasts", but is likely to work out for those of us midway, seeking a balance between enjoying the car and comfort.
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Old 5th April 2011, 14:32   #41
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

For people who are very much worried about handling of optra diesel can always go for bilstein suspensions.
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Old 5th April 2011, 15:11   #42
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For people who are very much worried about handling of optra diesel can always go for bilstein suspensions.
brraj, from your post and signature, it seems that you are likely to have an idea about mods. Now am coming to the other serious contender - the Manza. Do you think with some mods (K&N filters or something else) the Manza could be smoother, with less engine vibrations in the cabin? (am probably very spoilt after the Optra to find the vibrations excessive) And how would the mods affect:
- FE
- Warranty
- Power delivery of the car.
A rough idea of the costs involved would give a suitable perspective.
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Old 5th April 2011, 15:22   #43
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

poitive

Your analysis of all the cars has more or less been spot on.

I feel for your needs you should seriously consider:

1) Optra Magnum Pre-owned - If you buy new then even if you use this for 6-7 years you will loose money on the car making it finally cost the equivalent of a current Cruz for which you may have to stretch another 3L. Besides spares could be an issue. On the other hand if you buy preowned for about 5L or less you will end up saving a lot even if you change in 3 years time if you find spares hard to get.

2) Cruz - Preowned - You should be able to get some for close to 9L - go through the dealer and paper classified route rather than the net for a faster search. Prices listed upfront are negotiable.

3) Manza / Linea is actually a good choise and so is the Linea. I depends on what you want. The Engines are identical and the manza has the edge on space, while linea has it on looks. Interms of engineering the Linea is likely to be better, but the Manza will last, the New Elan has sorted out most of the minor glitches on pastics and it is a superb VFM head decision. Had you checked out the Elan, if not do go check it out, it may actually apeal a bit more to the head than the earlier one and is in some way very close to the linea as an option. The dark maroonish dash though not to everyones taste can be loved by some.

5) SX4 Diesel - It too is a head driven choise, some like it but if ride height is what you want then go for it.
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Old 5th April 2011, 16:18   #44
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
the Manza. Do you think with some mods (K&N filters or something else) the Manza could be smoother, with less engine vibrations in the cabin? (am probably very spoilt after the Optra to find the vibrations excessive) And how would the mods affect:
- FE - A bit more than exisiting as you are pumping in more AIR.
- Warranty - Depends on how friendly you are with service Advisor.
- Power delivery of the car - Around 2-5% again depends on the car.
A rough idea of the costs involved would give a suitable perspective. around rs4500 for k&n.
Engine vibrations will exists in diesels even if you do K&N mods for a Manza will take some time to get used to it.

By reading your posts in previous pages i guess your best choice would be a Pre-Owned Optra diesel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
Optra Magnum TDCi LS

- Whoooooooooooooo Hooooooooooooooooooooo! What a car to drive! Seriously!!!!! I mean, why, just why didn't this car sell in huge numbers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
* My Biggest concern if the parts being available for the next 5-7 years,
Dont worry about the parts, people who own sonata, elantra which has been closed lot earliar are able to source parts without any issues.

Last edited by brraj : 5th April 2011 at 16:24.
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Old 5th April 2011, 17:15   #45
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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By reading your posts in previous pages i guess your best choice would be a Pre-Owned Optra diesel.
+1 to that.

I think either a pre-owned Optra diesel (less than 3 yr old and still under warranty) is your best bet. It saves you the big hit on the initial depriciation; offers warranty; since your time frame to own is 6-7 yrs the vehicled isnt really a decade old by the time you have to sell it

If pre-owned seems a challenge then the next best bet is Manza MJD.

I can understand your plight with headroom issues on the back seat. However; if self drive is an option most of the times then why bother so much for back seat head room? It would be a good idea if you listed down all your requirements; prioritized them 1-10 (or n). Do a weighted score; if theres not much difference between the highest scorer and what your heart says then just go ahead!

If it is a new Optra and you can wait for some time then I would suggest the same. Expect pretty neat offers around Jul-Aug (however, if negotiated well - for eg 2 dealers pitted against each other and no hurry displayed you may still get an awesome deal).
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