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Old 23rd July 2011, 19:59   #526
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Originally Posted by optimist

Took the LT for a round. Nice vehicle. Wife found the rear seat very nice. i found the power very tempting too. My purse is happy too. WIN-WIN-WIN.

As i am looking to keep the car for long period, 7-8 years, 1.5 lakh kms, i'm not too bothered about the resale.

Have a proforma for 11.07 lakh. That is after some discount of approx 30K from Cheyrolet and TVS. Did you go look at it also? maybe the dud pricing of the fiesta will be the optra's gain. The supposed FE of the Fiesta and the fresh looks are it's saving grace.

I'm going on Sunday, post lunch to have a detailed discussion and clear some doubts.
Yes I test drove an off White Optra last Saturday. They brought it near my home. It handles bad roads and bad roads extremely well and the power is too good as well. I also got a similar quote. But I might get additional discount as I will be going via Orix I.e. Company lease. Also if I go for this car, am sure I will change the head unit to Caska which our forum member Charthom has installed on his ANHC. It has Bluetooth, reverse sensor and nice USB iPod connectivity as well. Navigation also. Meanwhile if you are going tomorrow again, can you please check with them for Caska and how much it costs?

P.S. My wife loved Optra too
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Old 23rd July 2011, 22:11   #527
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by bansal98 View Post
Of all the cars being discussed (< 12L sedans), I find Linea to be the best-looking of the lot, esp in that dark, maroon-ish color. If it came with Vento's diesel engine, I would have bought it long ago. It just looks majestic.
Just thought you should know this. The Vento's crdi engine is a generation old technology than the Fiat's Multijet. Further even the Crdi technology was extensively developed by Magneti Marelli a Fiat owned company who sold it to Bosch and from there it was globally commercialized. Fiat's latest is called Multi Air but thus far is selectively available in EU, SA and Latin America.

The fact that you find Vento more drivable than the Linea is a different thing by itself. I personally find the Linea much better and can only hope that Fiat plonks in the bigger version of the Multijet Black oil block in the Linea sooner than later.

Enough said let's return to the Magnum loaded with the potent Detroit Diesel.
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Old 24th July 2011, 00:20   #528
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Just thought you should know this. The Vento's crdi engine is a generation old technology than the Fiat's Multijet. Further even the Crdi technology was extensively developed by Magneti Marelli a Fiat owned company who sold it to Bosch and from there it was globally commercialized. Fiat's latest is called Multi Air but thus far is selectively available in EU, SA and Latin America.

The fact that you find Vento more drivable than the Linea is a different thing by itself. I personally find the Linea much better and can only hope that Fiat plonks in the bigger version of the Multijet Black oil block in the Linea sooner than later.

Enough said let's return to the Magnum loaded with the potent Detroit Diesel.
You may be right. I do not know enough about engine technology to have a say in this but what I do know is that Vento is a hoot to drive with its CRDi engine whereas Linea with its MultiJet is not. And that's all that matters. If Fiat decides to bring in the same capacity MultiJet, then we can have an apples to apples comparison. Until then, it's Vento for me all the way.
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Old 24th July 2011, 02:02   #529
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
How we all would like to pluck one part from one car to another to build a DIY car!!! The Optra notwithstanding, I'd take the front of the Fluidic's cabin, the rear from the Manza, steering from the Verna, suspension/chassis from the New Fiesta, the Steering from the Linea, diesel engine from the Fluidic again! And surprisingly, Overall, besides the cabin's headroom, the Vento may come closest to the overall package. But that was with the Optra out of the list
@Poitive, Been following your thread ever since you started this and the other parallel one - do you plan on finalizing and buying a car?

All I see is you discussing various cars threads, while at the same time pushing the Optra to one and all; to an extent that one might almost place you as Optra salesman!

P.s. Apologies if the post seems sarcastic. Your discussions on most threads are quite valid & useful. Just that I keep wondering this aloud, and had to put it up!
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Old 24th July 2011, 14:45   #530
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Not able to hold back from this discussion.
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Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
I see a lot of people being quite frustrated with Tata vehicles. At times, it happens to me too.
Me too at times, but majority of the times feels good.
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Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
Tata vehicles usually give that solid-take-anywhere type of feel. The kind you don't get from Japanese and Korean ones. They also are pretty frugal, especially when one considers their interior space and weight. They also usually have the most comfortable interiors (Indigo/Indica, Manza/Vista, Safari, Aria?, Sienna-remember that one?). The finish has improved by a HUGE margin - just enter the Manza Elan without any bias of it being a Tata/desi vehicle. And to feel it more, enter it after entering an Etios! They are also usually cheap to maintain. Tata has a lot of basics right.
I quire agree this part. I am having an Indica Xeta back at my home town used very rarely whenever I visit my hometown or when my parents hire a driver to go to temples bit far away (clocked less than 20,000 in 5 years). This starts in first crank even after 2-2.5 months of idling and just goes anywhere. Has taken a lot of abuses of the road, moves on one of the most notorious highways in Kerala - the Palakkad-Trichur NH 47 which has potholes which can swallow more than an indica's tire at a time!!! I am not claiming this is totally niggle/ issue free, this has it's own share of issues. Now the electric system has some issues it seems, whenever I engage the caution indicator, I can hear some sound in the music system and post that till some time the indicators don't work. The hand brakes had some issues, but again that was clearly sorted out (by an outside technician, I have posted the issue with TASS earlier). If I consider the fact that I got this car for 3.05L on road in 2006 Dec and spend about 25K then for central locking, music system, it is a total VFM proposition.
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They need to be more refined for sure.

Now, why don't they do it? I remember this short talk I had with someone who was the proud owner of a Safari and when he had complained to someone from Tata about quality -

Why can't you make better cars, with better finish et all?
Sir, we can, but would you be willing to pay 25-30% over what you pay now? Would you not have bought an Endevour or some other SUV then?

Ah yes! Now imagine Tata cars at a 20-30% higher cost. Even if they had a better finish et all, we would probably not choose them.
I am of the opinion that there should a variant/ a model which can really boast of better fit and finish which is really of the so called "international quality" for a premium. It can be called a + trim like Vista+/ Manza+ which is of that quality. I am sure there would be buyers for this version and also would give them a choice to go for fit & finish or for money. Also, I really feel they terribly missed this in Aria. If I were to decide, I would have really got it with better fit & finish without looking at the final price. Even if that would cost a bit more, that would have helped Tata's to shrugg of this so called "cheap" image.
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Now what it also has is niggles. Most stories are of niggles, not breakdowns. Even the famed German cars break down [ I think I posted this it before too - link (PICS : How flatbed tow trucks would run out of business without German cars!)]. We just seemed to be culturally biased towards some stuff. It is the Japs who have reliable performance, followed by the Koreans at some distance. Tata also has inconsistent finish. But I'd anyday live with some bit of the cabin with slightly poorer finish and quality for the seat and cabin comfort.
I just finished reading the experience of a poor Superb owner who got his car replaced and then finally got the amount refunded.
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Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
Heck! Even the biggest manufacturer in the world is trying to emulate them on some counts - look at the Etios!
I liked it.
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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
Well the first assumption behind my post was that money is not an issue. I agree that you can't compare Manza with an Altis. But the top end manza is almost in the base model of honda territory ( infact little more costly i guess). If Honda can shout quality from all the angles then why can't Tata? Indica is in the I10 territory or Santro territory. I have driven and owned 2 santros. Both were well built and had no niggles of any sorts.
Yes, that is my opinion as well, there are many buyers who will really look for the fit & finish than money, so if there is a + trim, that would really help.
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Old 25th July 2011, 00:39   #531
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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What news from you Althaaf? Any progress in the decision?
Yes there is a progress. Am busy preparing a detailed review with pics, new thread will be on air in a few days. Just to maintain the element of surprise, am not telling which car i got!. Wait for the review.
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Old 25th July 2011, 08:33   #532
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by althaaf View Post
Yes there is a progress. Am busy preparing a detailed review with pics, new thread will be on air in a few days. Just to maintain the element of surprise, am not telling which car i got!. Wait for the review.
Althaaf, I can see the image of your old Santro in your profile. However the image under your handle is that of a "VW", so I guess you have put put your money on the VW (could be a Vento or a Jetta), just a wild guess. Please correct me if I am wrong here
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Old 26th July 2011, 14:06   #533
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Default Driven! - New Ford Fiesta

Writing on Tbhp after a while now (even a few days seems long LOL).

New Ford Fiesta - Test Driven

Had TD the NFF a few days back. Wanted to write a point wise report here, as I have been doing for all the other cars, but it has gotten delayed. The essay like report was put up on the Driven! thread.
Link here (Driven! Vento, Optra, Linea, SX4, Manza. EDIT: Fluidic Verna (pg4), New Fiesta (Pg5))

Got kind of long, so please bear with it.

---------------------------------------------------
Some of you might be wondering why those threads aren't merged -
Will share my views on that, a bit later, on the Driven thread. Besides the 'history' to why that thread was started, and given how Optra-centric this thread has become, thought that:
  • This thread could be for more Optra Magnum related stuff and comparisons. (I had tried to go beyond this car around page 15-17, but people seemed to stop writing then; and when we were back on the Optra, thoughts and posts started flowing again)
    .
  • The Driven! thread could be more for comparisons between the other cars in the segment. Don't think there are other threads comparing cars in this segment.
Of course there will be an overlap too. But that is OK.
---------------------------------------------------

PS: Have many other thoughts on the posts before. Hope to be back later, to share those. This post was mainly to share the link of the NFF TD report.

PPS: Good to see you back Highflyer, Autoindian (and please feel free to share your thoughts), Jakku.
Torquedo (the Skoda effect?), Mdsaab (the ANHC effect?) and to a small extend VB-San seem to be missing (in action? ) for a while, given we got used to hearing from them.

Last edited by Poitive : 26th July 2011 at 14:08.
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Old 26th July 2011, 15:13   #534
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Default Re: Driven! - New Ford Fiesta

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Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
PPS: Good to see you back Highflyer, Autoindian (and please feel free to share your thoughts), Jakku.
Torquedo (the Skoda effect?), Mdsaab (the ANHC effect?) and to a small extend VB-San seem to be missing (in action? ) for a while, given we got used to hearing from them.
Pleasure Poitive, this is one thread which I can't afford to loose track of . As I mentioned earlier somewhere my target is to "Choose a Spacious Diesel Sedan around 10 lakhs" could be +/- a few grands, by next year this time (July 2012), when my current ride will be completing 8 gracious years & retiring from my active service. What better place to reach that target than this thread itself.
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Old 26th July 2011, 17:32   #535
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Default Re: Driven! - New Ford Fiesta

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive

PPS: Good to see you back Highflyer, Autoindian (and please feel free to share your thoughts), Jakku.
Torquedo (the Skoda effect?), Mdsaab (the ANHC effect?) and to a small extend VB-San seem to be missing (in action? ) for a while, given we got used to hearing from them.
Poitive, it has always been a pleasure reading your TD comments and as everyone has appreciated, the posts on the "Driven" thread have been really useful.

Skoda thing is out of the window, cost was the BIG factor there.

There is not much going on these days in regards to the Optra, I'm waiting for some more Vitamin M to flow in. My latest analysis/findings on the GM VIN decoding have been posted on Keyur's Optra ownership thread.

As you know in all probability, Optra is the one for me, regardless of it being discontinued and other GM A$$ stuff so I actually wait for someone on the forum to ill treat the Optra and I can pounce on that guy

On the others in the same bracket here are my views (owners/ probable owners: these are my comments, with no offense meant to anyone).

1) NFF: Starting @ 9.23L Ex Showroom, with the performance that it offers was never into consideration. To add more to it, when I am getting an Optra for 9L OTR there seems no point taking this further.

2) ANHV: Cannot think of plonking 10L + on a Hyundai, they are meant for small car business and better be there. I have extensively driven the 1.5 CRDI Verna and it feels like a toy at higher speeds, as on the performance front, I have not driven it (the ANHV) but again as you have mentioned, the linear power delivery and other things, not my cup of tea mate. You probably know me, I like the sudden pin down feeling, which was more pronounced in the Optra even when compared to the Cruze.

3) Vento: My neighbor just bought a new Vento HL TDi, they have stripped off the Leather Wrapping and Chrome on the Steering wheel, now these are Maruti like ominous signs to me. Heck, if your product is selling well that doesn't mean that you strip it off with features. The Vento though is good on performance but leaves a lot desirable on the handling and ride part. To add more, the prices have been increased, @ 10.7L odd for the HL, with the Optra being 2L cheaper, it becomes a no brainer, hopefully neither would my ownership be that expensive nor would I loose out that much on a resale after 5-7 years. The performance gap between the Vento and Optra cannot be debated, Optra RULZ.

4) SX4: Even an SX40 would not be comparable to the Optra, MSIL build quality is pathetic to say the least, with the same 90 BHP engine being offered in the Manza (which has more space and better features), 2L cheaper, no brainer again.

5) Linea: Never was into consideration, A$$ is bad.

Did I leave any Optra opponent being knocked off ??

I am not here to market the Optra, but there is not 1, I say ONE, aspect where the Optra lacks in any of it's contenders.

The gizmos that are missing, is something that you appreciate over a span of 6 odd months but thereafter they become obsolete.

If GM was to rebadge the Optra as a MSIL product all these NFF, Vento, ANHV would be left done and dusted.

PS: No offence here to any of the owners of the above mentioned vehicles.

Happy Motoring !!

Last edited by Torquedo : 26th July 2011 at 17:39.
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Old 26th July 2011, 20:05   #536
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

People,

You know I have decided to go for Optra Magnum LT and almost paid the booking amount to take delivery on 4th Aug but some thinking made me try to look one final last time for a pre-owned car. I have told several of my friends, registered with all the websites and also asked several second hand car dealers to look for a LT model.

Sadly the search so far has not yielded any result though i am hopeful of couple of leads and expect something positive this week. There are a few 2008 LS models but my heart is set on having an ACC.

Few mins ago I got an alert from a website about a new listing and it sounds sweet: 2009 model with 38k on odo, asking price of 6.5L (I would definitely negotiate) but the catch is it is listed in Bangalore and I live in Hyderabad. How difficult would it be for me to buy this car and get the proper paper work done? And how much would it cost me to get an AP registration?

yeah yeah, i know I am getting desperate. Worst case, I will go for a new one next month.
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Old 26th July 2011, 20:13   #537
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Default Re: Driven! - New Ford Fiesta

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Originally Posted by Torquedo View Post
The Vento though is good on performance but leaves a lot desirable on the handling and ride part.
I think you must be having Ferrari and Lamborghini for your daily diet.
Trust me when I say this. Vento handles absolutely fine. Leave aside Optra (This was the other reason apart from age for considering Vento) even the Cruze fails to compete with Vento on the handling department.
Infact I have never been satisfies with 3 things from GM. Firstly their range of petrol engines, secondly their handling and lastly the gearshifts.

I am not taking away what the optra deserves. On the performance front, yes the torque is significantly more. On the space front it wins.

Now price wise I think the Optra costs approx 8.5L & 9.5L. (not sure about the amount of discounts)
Whereas the Vento costs 8 and 9.3L.
Is GM really offering 2L discount? If it is then Optra is surely VFM.
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Old 26th July 2011, 20:43   #538
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I think you must be having Ferrari and Lamborghini for your daily diet.
Now price wise I think the Optra costs approx 8.5L & 9.5L. (not sure about the amount of discounts)
Whereas the Vento costs 8 and 9.3L.
Is GM really offering 2L discount? If it is then Optra is surely VFM.
ehe. I think Optra fans are very loyal to the car. You should listen to Keyur talk about his car.

Reg the cost, I am not sure about other cities but in Hyderabad Vento Diesel Highline costs around 11.5 lakhs and Optra diesel LT comes for 10.63 lakhs after discounts. This is the best quote I got last week.

Toruqedo might have been talking about the price of LS model which comes for around 9.5 lakhs after discounts.
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Old 26th July 2011, 20:44   #539
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
PPS: Good to see you back Highflyer, Autoindian (and please feel free to share your thoughts), Jakku.
Torquedo (the Skoda effect?), Mdsaab (the ANHC effect?) and to a small extend VB-San seem to be missing (in action? ) for a while, given we got used to hearing from them.
Hey, very much here. Been super busy in the past few days, and hence limited action here. Keep going with your analysis and posts. Extremely good reading I must say!

Quote:
Originally Posted by prabhuferrari View Post
Yes I test drove an off White Optra last Saturday. They brought it near my home. It handles bad roads and bad roads extremely well and the power is too good as well. I also got a similar quote. But I might get additional discount as I will be going via Orix I.e. Company lease. Also if I go for this car, am sure I will change the head unit to Caska which our forum member Charthom has installed on his ANHC. It has Bluetooth, reverse sensor and nice USB iPod connectivity as well. Navigation also. Meanwhile if you are going tomorrow again, can you please check with them for Caska and how much it costs?
P.S. My wife loved Optra too
I have a feeling that you’ll end up with Honda City AT. I remember you mentioning (in an earlier post) on a return drive from Chennai in Sports mode
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Old 26th July 2011, 21:54   #540
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

This thread has really become all about the Optra! Reading so many good things about this suddenly discovered car has made me to think if even GM ever took so much interest in this car.
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