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Old 5th April 2011, 20:11   #46
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
poitive

Your analysis of all the cars has more or less been spot on.

I feel for your needs you should seriously consider:

1) Optra Magnum Pre-owned - If you buy new then even if you use this for 6-7 years you will loose money on the car making it finally cost the equivalent of a current Cruz for which you may have to stretch another 3L. Besides spares could be an issue. On the other hand if you buy preowned for about 5L or less you will end up saving a lot even if you change in 3 years time if you find spares hard to get.

2) Cruz - Preowned - You should be able to get some for close to 9L - go through the dealer and paper classified route rather than the net for a faster search. Prices listed upfront are negotiable.

3) Manza / Linea is actually a good choise and so is the Linea. I depends on what you want. The Engines are identical and the manza has the edge on space, while linea has it on looks. Interms of engineering the Linea is likely to be better, but the Manza will last, the New Elan has sorted out most of the minor glitches on pastics and it is a superb VFM head decision. Had you checked out the Elan, if not do go check it out, it may actually apeal a bit more to the head than the earlier one and is in some way very close to the linea as an option. The dark maroonish dash though not to everyones taste can be loved by some.

5) SX4 Diesel - It too is a head driven choise, some like it but if ride height is what you want then go for it.
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Originally Posted by brraj View Post
Engine vibrations will exists in diesels even if you do K&N mods for a Manza will take some time to get used to it.

By reading your posts in previous pages i guess your best choice would be a Pre-Owned Optra diesel.




Dont worry about the parts, people who own sonata, elantra which has been closed lot earliar are able to source parts without any issues.
Thanks ACM and brraj. The idea of a pre-owned dind't really appeal, but as it gets suggested repeatedly, am warming up to the idea. And when one thinks of a Cruze, one gets even more tempted. Another thing which makes me seriously consider a pre-owned is getting safety features within my budget.

Am not much aware of the pre-owned market.
- Is there a decent chance of finding cars less than 15-20k on the odo?
- Any idea of Old Cruze prices?

Between the Manza and Linea, the Manza seems a more sensible choice. More space (which I need), more comfortable, while still being acceptably good looking.

ACM, have checked out the Elan only. Haven't seen the older one. They seem to have done a good job on the whole. The plastics of the AC vents and their controls, though, seem to have miles to go.

Do love the higher stance of the SX4, however the extra money doesn't seem well spent. And the A-Pillar blind spot makes it a risky vehicle IMHO.

brraj, The K&N may not sort out the issues I am looking to improve in a significant way, however they seem to be a sensible upgrade anyway, with higher FE AND power and they aren't expensive.

brraj, when u say that parts for Elantra and Sonata have been available, are u referring to the authorized SS or the local market?

PS: Seems I'll be spending some time with car dealers scouting around for a very low milage pre-owned Optra/Cruze. But let us keep the discussion open and keep sharing views. Seems there are others besides me who have similar decisions to be made.
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Old 5th April 2011, 23:39   #47
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by nitin.rai View Post
+1 to that.

I think either a pre-owned Optra diesel (less than 3 yr old and still under warranty) is your best bet. It saves you the big hit on the initial depriciation; offers warranty; since your time frame to own is 6-7 yrs the vehicled isnt really a decade old by the time you have to sell it

If pre-owned seems a challenge then the next best bet is Manza MJD.

I can understand your plight with headroom issues on the back seat. However; if self drive is an option most of the times then why bother so much for back seat head room? It would be a good idea if you listed down all your requirements; prioritized them 1-10 (or n). Do a weighted score; if theres not much difference between the highest scorer and what your heart says then just go ahead!

If it is a new Optra and you can wait for some time then I would suggest the same. Expect pretty neat offers around Jul-Aug (however, if negotiated well - for eg 2 dealers pitted against each other and no hurry displayed you may still get an awesome deal).
Nitin, Even though have not really wanted a pre-owned car, am warming up to the idea as it may be a huge saving as the big depreciation would work in my favour.

Does the warranty remain applicable even after the vehicle has been sold? The warranty for Optra diesel is 50k/2 yrs. If it was 3 years before, any idea when this changed?

If I buy a pre-owned one, chances are that I would sell it earlier. The idea is to use the vehicle till it has about 1.25L to 1.75L on the odo.

It is usually going to be self driven now. May use the family driver the odd time even even now. After a few years, may have a dedicated driver. Some close friends/family are also about 6' though may not use this car often. The idea of putting 9L into a vehicle where I can't sit in the rear seat anyway doesn't seem prudent to me.

About weighted scores - somehow the mathematical approach doesn't work for me, Nitin.

About offers in July-Aug - Are there good discounts in these months every year? I thought the main discount periods were in March and September due to depreciation-tax benefits and December to offset buyers waiting for a newer model. A huge discount may be the impetus one needs to take the plunge for the Optra
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Old 5th April 2011, 23:58   #48
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Just to add to the confusion, I somehow felt that Cruze does not have the same space as Optra but gizmos, power and looks, it's got full marks!
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Old 6th April 2011, 09:18   #49
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by rosh_aveo1.4 View Post
Just to add to the confusion, I somehow felt that Cruze does not have the same space as Optra but gizmos, power and looks, it's got full marks!
The way cars are designed today once inside it is all around you. One has more space for our legs (with the cab forward design) where the legs seem to go right into the engine bay and the transmission tunnel starts below the center dash with all the infotainment equipment monted a bit higher up. The Cruze is more spacious (usable space) but the optra has a simple design that appears more spacious at first glance especially in the front. It is today all about ergonomics.

Poitive
normally diesel vehicles doing less than 35k kms before they are sold is rare so 15-20k kms is a tough ask. The search will require some leg work. A preowned Optra will of course be the best deal possible (even if we assume you would sell if off sooner) a cruz will be a bit harder to lay hands on. Warranty if remaining will continue after you buy the vehicle. Many companies have 1.5 + 1.5 or 2+1 or 2+2 years warranty where in a part of the warranty (extended warranty) has to be seperately bought (at the start or within the first few months of the purchase). So for the same age period some cars may have more or lesser warranty depending on the extended warranty being bought. Chevrolet also has some AMC packages. So you would need to check that out, while buying the car, with the owner to verify what exact warranty it comes with. Many people who just plan to use a new car for 1-2 years do not buy the extended warranty and since you are looking for relatively newer cars you may have to keep any eye out for this.

Give it a month and check with all dealers that you can see on your daily route. If it does not work out get the Manza, seems the best bet for you if buying new.
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Old 6th April 2011, 09:39   #50
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
brraj, when u say that parts for Elantra and Sonata have been available, are u referring to the authorized SS or the local market?
Authorized SS & local market aswell.
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Old 6th April 2011, 12:45   #51
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by Highflyer View Post
@Sidindica I agree with you that Optra is now slightly dated.
However the engine although 4 years old is still as modern and capable as some of the latest in similarly priced cars.
I have not owned an Optra but if you go by the feedback of owners on TBHP then Optra is a very capable car.
Cruze LT is already stripped down without a large number of basic stuff.
The better choice would be to upgrade Optra with features like steering mounted
controls, rear ac vents, ICE with USB, ESP,EBD,immobiliser etc and there would be
enough people out there to go for it just for the driving pleasure of this beast.
Give me an Optra with all the gizmos you mentioned, Highflyer, I will pay an additional 50-100k and buy it today.

Seriously, I am looking to upgrade from my Baleno and almost bought a Vento but a test drive of Optra Magnum Diesel LT has stopped me from making the decision. I did not even have the waiting period issue of Vento; can get delivery any day I want.

And on top of it I have couple of friends who work @ Ford and they have asked me to wait till I check out the New Fiesta before I buy any other vehicle.

After reading all the threads / discussions here about Optra Magnum, I have decided to wait till the New Fiesta is launched and meanwhile look for a good pre-owned Magnum (Post-2008 LT model, 20-30k on Odo) and I sincerely hope I find a Magnum before the Fiesta is out in the market.

Thanks Poitive for this thread. It was very helpful.

Highflyer, go for the Magnum, mate.
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Old 6th April 2011, 21:57   #52
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

@NoRules there are scores of people out there who would buy it with these features.
I keep wondering about the guys who market this car in India.
Do they stay in some kind of elevated space out of touch with the ground realities?
Do they visit any forums like this one to gauge public opinion?

I am quite sure that they look different because they are doing things so
differently.
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Old 7th April 2011, 10:07   #53
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

@Highflyer - My 'Ford' friend was telling me they consider the GM guys to be 'self-goal' specialists, not able to sell a great product even at THAT price levels. Try comparing Optra magnum with Vento and the Sales guy of Chevrloet will immediately say - "Sir, how can you compare those 2 cars? They are in different segment altogether. Magnum is in Laura category" Ask him then why they are selling Magnum at price lesser than Vento, he will not have an answer.
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Old 8th April 2011, 14:43   #54
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by rosh_aveo1.4 View Post
Just to add to the confusion, I somehow felt that Cruze does not have the same space as Optra but gizmos, power and looks, it's got full marks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
The way cars are designed today once inside it is all around you. One has more space for our legs (with the cab forward design) where the legs seem to go right into the engine bay and the transmission tunnel starts below the center dash with all the infotainment equipment monted a bit higher up. The Cruze is more spacious (usable space) but the optra has a simple design that appears more spacious at first glance especially in the front. It is today all about ergonomics.

Poitive
normally diesel vehicles doing less than 35k kms before they are sold is rare so 15-20k kms is a tough ask. The search will require some leg work. A preowned Optra will of course be the best deal possible (even if we assume you would sell if off sooner) a cruz will be a bit harder to lay hands on. Warranty if remaining will continue after you buy the vehicle. Many companies have 1.5 + 1.5 or 2+1 or 2+2 years warranty where in a part of the warranty (extended warranty) has to be seperately bought (at the start or within the first few months of the purchase). So for the same age period some cars may have more or lesser warranty depending on the extended warranty being bought. Chevrolet also has some AMC packages. So you would need to check that out, while buying the car, with the owner to verify what exact warranty it comes with. Many people who just plan to use a new car for 1-2 years do not buy the extended warranty and since you are looking for relatively newer cars you may have to keep any eye out for this.

Give it a month and check with all dealers that you can see on your daily route. If it does not work out get the Manza, seems the best bet for you if buying new.
Like Rosh, I too felt that the Optra was more spacious than the Cruze.

ACM, Thanks for the inputs. Some thoughts on the modern/cab-forward design:
-While it does seem to increase the legroom dimensions, it often doesn't seem as comfortable for people who don't fall in the "typical user" class (I guess anyone over 5'9"). The "foot room" - space for feet, especially while driving is compromised as the engine/transmission is coming into the cabin.
-This also makes the central console wider, which reduces what I term as "knee room" and one ends up sitting with lesser width for the knees.
-The central console also protrudes into the cabin, further hamper knee room.
I guess most of this is not felt much by the "typical user". It probably is being a bit like being left handed in a right handed world.

Thanks for you inputs on the used cars, ACM. They give me a more realistic perspective. I may be asking for too much when I look for a car with only 15-20k on the odo and that too for a car which didn't sell as well. Am getting more realistic and hence have not even really made too many efforts looking in the used car market. Will probably do so at my own gentle pace.
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Old 9th April 2011, 17:29   #55
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Pretty much like like Highflier and NoRules, I too feel that the car is very poorly marketed. A lot of people looking for a car in this segment may even forget this car, or not consider it seriously as it doesn't seem to be a popular car (herd mentality?) It just has very poor visibility.

The self-goal comment from your friend was very funny
I was comparing the car to the Manza, by the way. Must have been a shocker for the sales guy

It really is a car almost in the Octavia/Laura category but selling in Vento's, though without the gizmos.

The one thing I did like about the sales approach was the "test drive it like you own it" approach, which was advertised and also observed. The sales guy was very comfortable with a long test drive (eventually about 50kms the first time) unlike many other companies. While chatting with the sales guy he mentioned that they are taught that for the higher end cars, they should allow the customer to experience the car and talk less. That those customers usually do know all the tech-specs etc. It certainly worked for me. It was the experience with the car which got me seriously wanting to spend 2L extra on a modest budget of 7L.

------------------------------------------------------

Regarding adding more features/gizmos to the Optra, it seems that the company will refrain from that. A lot of customers going for the Cruze may then go for the Optra. It will also make the Cruze seem very poor value for money when compared to the Optra. And the Cruze would be the product the company would want to promote. But those are conjectures and the company may have a different logic, pretty much like their marketing philosophy ;-)
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Old 9th April 2011, 18:00   #56
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Poitive I was also impressed by the positive approach of the marketing guy from the closest dealer.
He drove down for 80 kms to bring the car for test drive.
He didn't try to give me any input unless asked for.
I liked it a lot because I already knew almost everything about the car.

As far as adding features goes I think it will not eat into the market of Cruze because it is considered one segment lower.
On the contrary it will complement the Cruze and fill the gap between Aveo and Cruze.

Whatever the logic I hope that they come out with it soon.
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Old 10th April 2011, 14:39   #57
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Highflier, had forgotten about the first experience at a showroom for an Optra. The guys at the sales could hardly care less. They almost seemed unhappy that a customer had arrived for the Optra! Had not test drive vehicle. Said that the test drive Optra shuffles between their showrooms.

The other showroom was a pleasure to deal with.

AFAIK, Ford was to badge the Old Fiesta as the Classic and sell the new one alongwith. There was an advertisement recently which offered the Ford Fiesta Classic, suggesting that the new Fiesta should not be far away.
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Old 10th April 2011, 16:50   #58
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Poitive you seem to be relating some other persons post to me.
I have made only one post about test drive and thats very positive.

Its now in open that Ford is launching new Fiesta on 14th April.
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Old 11th April 2011, 11:15   #59
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Highflyer,

The new Fiesta will be launched in July only. 14th April is when they will start revealing the new sepcs / look of the car and this information is from a very reliable source up in the Ford chain.

OT: I am able to find only LS models in the pre-owned market. Yet to come across a good LT post 2008 model.
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Old 11th April 2011, 20:29   #60
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Default re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Guys here is the link to report by a new member to Optra family.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...-0-tcdi-6.html (Ownership report : Chevrolet Optra Magnum LT 2.0 TCDI)
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