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Old 31st July 2011, 13:26   #616
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by keyur View Post
It was an empty stretch, no traffic. Pushed the car and after reading about the 200kph topspeed post earlier, felt that it would be a breeze to reach that speed. But that was not to happen! I had a great difficulty reaching 120 and crossing 120 was a pain.
I dont know Why am I commenting on this one. But why not someone else do the talking. Someone more authentic and more experienced than me or you.
Quote:
Whilst cruising at a 100 kph in 5th gear, the rpm needle is hovering at about 2,100 rpm (turbo zone). If you want to overtake, merely press the accelerator to access instant pep (no need to downshift at all).
Also, high speed cruising ability is exemplary. Where the Linea starts running out of breath at 130 kph, the Vento is eager to accelerate, even at 140 150. This car easily seems capable of hitting a top whack of 186 kph, and an indicated 200 kph (as someone else found out).
You all know where it is from.

and more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLK View Post
Yes, this happens when you are not used to driving the car. Don't get me wrong! I too own an Optra, but you are not comparing it fair! Drive the Vento for a month and it will respond to your wishes [Thats my experience with all cars].


Quote:
Originally Posted by SLK View Post
Many people on team-bhp share this perception. Whenever there is a mention of EPS, the words no feedback and very light come into that statement. Most EPS are perfectly configured speed sensitive steerings and perform better than HPS at higher speeds. I like the Optra but unfortunately the steering on my Ritz feels better at high speeds, which is an EPS.
How true. Swift and Figo have EPS but they are brilliantly calibrated.
Another example. Beat Diesel with EPS was better than the HPS. I did not believe before I drove 1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLK View Post
ABS and airbags are things, which, if you don't have, might not ever get a chance to miss them!
I wish they were made mandatory by regulation. The increase in demands of these would lead to reduction in price. Making them much more affordable.
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Old 31st July 2011, 13:28   #617
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
Here is the timings first. Source autocar.
Attachment 585874
These are outdated benchmarks. 20 in the 3rd? thats below the driving range of most cars today.
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Old 31st July 2011, 13:32   #618
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by AdrenalinJunkie View Post
I expected the Optra to be faster or at par with the Vento, or atleast competetive!!!!!!
The reason is mainly due to
1) Taller gearings (Widely space too)
2) Lack of torque below 2000 RPM (Lag)


Quote:
Originally Posted by SLK View Post
These are outdated benchmarks. 20 in the 3rd? thats below the driving range of most cars today.
I too have wondered about it.
Vento does 20 in 3rd gear at the bare minimum 900 RPM (idle RPM)
But this is not-out dated info.
Diesel Saloon Comparison: Fiesta vs Verna vs Vento vs Linea vs SX4 Part 1

Autocar is one place where I get the stats. But their reviews are not correct. IMO. Overdrive is better.

Last edited by oxyzen : 31st July 2011 at 13:36.
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Old 31st July 2011, 13:38   #619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keyur View Post
Part 1 : Keyur drives the Vento
------------
Part 2 : Keyur takes friend for a ride in the Optra
Keyur, you had me totally in splits! Totally. I had logged out, but could not resist reading your piece and there I was in the middle of the night laughing away.

It was a bit like being there witnessing this whole event, as if from your mind-space. I may or may not agree with a lot of what you said, but it surely was fun reading it.

To me, what it brings about the Optra is not about figures or speeds of whatever - it is the passion that this car is capable of generating. I remember coming across your ownership thread while I had a while to spare in the food court of a mall, and thinking - "There! Another one smitten by the Magnum". And smitten you are Good! It makes one enjoy one's ride a lot more. Just hope your comments don't prevent others to enjoy their rides enough, mate.

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Originally Posted by keyur View Post
Totally agree. Can't believe the Vento competing with the Optra in terms of speed or power. My drive of the Vento today proved it to me!
Was referring to the handling aspect there. Not speed or power.

Quote:
Check my Vento post (Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L)as well - it was not supposed to be a comparison but it turned into that eventually.
Some telepathy between Optra-lovers at work? There I mentioned of a possibility of a Vento-Optra comparison from you. I post. Only to realize that you are already penning one down!!!

Quote:
Also, have tried quite a few ABS vehicles. The ABS hardly ever seems to kick in, so you don't get used to it, so when it does kick in, the sudden shuddering and the maneuverability (and steerability) after braking can be fatal!
Thanks for the info on the Non-ABS experience.

I too have had this concern to some extent, that if with the chauffeur, the ABS could possibly prove counterproductive. That, not being used to it, could unnerve him. But not sure if that is a good reason not to go for it.

From what I have read, the big difference ABS brings out is that the car still remains maneuverable with brakes being jammed. If one were to have to jam brakes with an object in front and try to swerve the car, one would be looking towards a spin or the car turning turtle. However, with an ABS one is supposed to have a much better chance of preventing an accident.

(@All - Disclaimer: Especially for safety related issues, please do your own research before believing them)

Quote:
sorry for butting in here, but the Vento steering has ZERO feedback!
May be a matter of spending some time with the vehicle.

Quote:
Exactly my point (as made many times before). You learn to love the roll!
Aah! Not about loving that roll. Ideally I'd not have it, while still getting that wonderful ride. The point I was making is that, the handling is not as bad as the roll suggests.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoRules View Post
Poitive,

As and when I find a Magnum which I want to buy, rest assured I will get it checked by an experienced mechanic from Chevy garage and only then I will buy the car. I have my feet firmly grounded and will not buy anything blindly, thanks to you, mdsaab, keyur, optimist and all TBHPIANs on this thread. Damn. Remembering all those wonderful guys on this thread at this ungodly hour is not easy. Need to look up this thread for the passionate discussions to remember them.
Partly OT:
Thanks for those lovely words. One can form some sort of friendship/bonding even without meeting or talking, just through public forums too, it seems I too realized that recently.

BTW, did you use the "Magnum" on your friend? The hours are ticking away from the stipulated 48!!!

Last edited by Poitive : 31st July 2011 at 13:40. Reason: had written 'allow' in place of 'prevent'
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Old 31st July 2011, 14:02   #620
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

@Mods - The back to back posts are due to many more replies coming up in the past few minutes, which I want to comment on. Please merge, if deemed fit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdsaab View Post
I agree with you.
mainly due to brand value, people opted for Corolla's, Civic's and Laura's. if one is spending a lot of money on their car. They want to be associated with higher snob value too, which comes with the other brands and not so much with GM.
You hit the nail on it's head mdsaab. GM could not create that aura around it. It did have it to an extent in the Opel Astra days.

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Originally Posted by MAS View Post
I hope you meant dialing in the Cosmetic surgeon and not the Guillotine.
I too had those thoughts.
Let us pray that it is only the Cosmetic surgeon and not the Guillotine!

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Originally Posted by prabhuferrari View Post
While browsing through the ken wood india website came across tuis product. Not sure how good this is when compared to Caska.
From the looks of it, the Optra has a standard Double-DIN slot. Almost all manufacturers have products for that. Doing some research in the ICE section of the forum may land you with some good options. Alpine usually has very good SQ and more accurate power ratings. Had written this piece, which might help a bit:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/ask-gu...icroscope.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLK View Post
Yes, this happens when you are not used to driving the car. Don't get me wrong! I too own an Optra, but you are not comparing it fair! Drive the Vento for a month and it will respond to your wishes [Thats my experience with all cars].
+1 Mate. It takes a while getting used to a car.

Also, cars which have non-leniar power delivery tend to give the impression of being faster. Having more torque in a car, tends to give an impression of it being faster, even for similar power or speed/acceleration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrenalinJunkie View Post
I expected the Optra to be faster or at par with the Vento, or atleast competetive!!!!!!
What part are you referring to mate? Figures in Oxyzen's table? Which part?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
I wish they were made mandatory by regulation. The increase in demands of these would lead to reduction in price. Making them much more affordable.
+1

Even though I an not likely to go in for one. (can't get into the reasons here)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLK View Post
These are outdated benchmarks. 20 in the 3rd? thats below the driving range of most cars today.
@Oxyzen - SLK just made a large part of the point I was trying to make before, and wanted to continue the discussion at a time when the thread was moving a bit more slowly. Choosing 20-80 is not a sacred figure. And based on which figures we choose, different cars would look good. Hence I don't give too much weightage to those 20-80 and 40-100 in 3/4 gear.

(0-100)-(0-60) gives a slightly more realistic picture, but again not good enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
Vento does 20 in 3rd gear at the bare minimum 900 RPM (idle RPM)
Aah! There you go

Edit: Past few days, this thread is showing signs of turbo! It is moving like ________ ! (we can fill in our respective car's names here!) LOL

Last edited by Poitive : 31st July 2011 at 14:04.
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Old 31st July 2011, 14:09   #621
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
What part are you referring to mate? Figures in Oxyzen's table? Which part?
In-gear roll on times!!!!
The Vento clearly outshines and out-drags the entire lot.
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Old 31st July 2011, 15:21   #622
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
BTW, did you use the "Magnum" on your friend? The hours are ticking away from the stipulated 48!!!
Still trying.

Actually he is very passionate about his cars and does not believe in selling any. His garage comprises of Merc, Laura, Beetle, Vento, Polo, Scorp, Zen and even an 800.

Checked out a car earlier today. 2008 model with 68k on odo. 5.5L negotiable. It is in very good condition. However my service guy is out of town today and will be able to inspect tomorrow only.

Have 2 more options to see by tomorrow. Sadly the 2008 model does not have ACC which is important to me. Something to think about.
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Old 31st July 2011, 15:28   #623
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

The way the optra is being considered over every car and the comparison between the Vento and the Optra by keyur some posts above doesn't feel right. I trust the general Indian buyer on 1 thing for sure: that they know whats a more VFM product. Thats the reason lakhs of people tolerate the rattling of a maruti, bad a.s.s of the Tata etc. Optra is no doubt a good car but the comparison was a little too pushy and one sided. To me it looked like more of the owner trying to convince himself that his car is superior. Sorry if I sound rude but the Optra is not selling Sir. A car is a lot more then just the 2ltr engine. If Optra was so much VFM then I am sure it would have managed to do slightly better numbers each month. Blame it on GM, the dealers, the looks of the car or whatever but you have to admit that its not selling. And thats very hard to explain because the car originally was supposed to compete with a segment above. I hope the mods dont object to this post. After reading the comparison I re-read GTO's review of the Vento. Every owner till date has been happy with the Car's engine, ride and handling. Infact that was one of the key selling points of the Vento and was even mentioned in every car show that tried to do a comparison between the C segment cars.

This is not a hate post on the Optra. But GM should atleast try updating the looks of the car and start marketing it better. The GM dealer( 2 of them) near my house thought I was insane when I went to ask about the optra. One dealer didnt even have a Vehicle on display leave alone the TD. The other sheepishly said it doesn't sell. I am not plonking down 10L on a car that the company itself has dumped!

Last edited by drmohitg : 31st July 2011 at 15:37.
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Old 31st July 2011, 15:36   #624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrenalinJunkie View Post
In-gear roll on times!!!!
The Vento clearly outshines and out-drags the entire lot.
It may be a very different story if it was 20-80 in second! Or even if it was 40-100 in third. Besides the torque curve, the cars (especially the Optra) the gear ratios playing a big role. As we discussed earlier, even the Manza has better "in gear timings" based on ACI figures as compared to the Cruze!!!

Good to see you back AJ. Waiting for the new Swift, before taking the plunge, I presume. We sure would have made the GM salesmen a confused bunch by now; not letting them be sure of where this car is positioned . Some want it for the torque, some for the space, some for the wonderful ride and good rear seat to be driven in, some compare it to the Swift, some to the Manza, some to the Civic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoRules View Post
Still trying.

Actually he is very passionate about his cars and does not believe in selling any. His garage comprises of Merc, Laura, Beetle, Vento, Polo, Scorp, Zen and even an 800.

Checked out a car earlier today. 2008 model with 68k on odo. 5.5L negotiable. It is in very good condition. However my service guy is out of town today and will be able to inspect tomorrow only.

Have 2 more options to see by tomorrow. Sadly the 2008 model does not have ACC which is important to me. Something to think about.
That suggests he has ample cars to have fun with, so he just may have spared the Laura. Though from that line up, I think I would take the Laura or the Zen (original one) for a fun-drive (or maybe the Merc, depending on traffic).

Mate, did the 2008 car have ABS and Airbags? That may be more important than ACC.
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Old 31st July 2011, 15:59   #625
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

I personally am a fan of short gearing. The car accelerates faster. You have the advantage of up-shifting early in you in cruising mode. The only thing that takes a toll is the FE. Which i think is ir-relevant as long as you stick to diesels.

Having a good engine is one thing and gaetting the gear-ratios right is another. SX4 with the right set of ratios feel 1.5X faster than the Linea although both share the same engine. Agreed the suzuki has a bit of weight advantage.

Another point that is generally overlooked is magnum weighs 1370Kg whereas the Vento weight 1190Kg. So the power to weight ratio remains almost same. Infact both are around 87 Bhp/tonne. But in torque Optra is 230Nm/tonne where Vento lags slightly with 210 BHP/tonne.

IMO both the cars are at par with their performances when driven. The Vento does have an advantage with shorter gearing, less turbo lag, and a wider rev range. The Optra pins you down with more G force once you enter its powerband. And off-course it is significantly more refined.

Now considering 20-80 in 3rd gear, Optra might not be able to run at 20 in 3rd gear considering the fact that gearing is tall. I wonder how the tests are done. But I believe in regular driving the roll on times mean a lot. We Indians love to lug the car in the maximum possible gear and then expect acceleration with just a tap on the throttle. It is where the in-gear acceleration matters. The entire midrange is also taken care of. What is left is the top end. We dont generally use it. In fact I dont (much). May be 0.1% times i found myself in RPM over 5000 even in petrol. As for diesel I am still in the run-in mode.

40-100 in 4th gear may make more sense as it is a comparatively narrow power-band. For Vento it is (1300-3300). How come it has such good figures in this range? It is the absence of lag as well as the decent mid-range.
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Old 31st July 2011, 16:03   #626
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
It may be a very different story if it was 20-80 in second! Or even if it was 40-100 in third. Besides the torque curve, the cars (especially the Optra) the gear ratios playing a big role. As we discussed earlier, even the Manza has better "in gear timings" based on ACI figures as compared to the Cruze!!!.
True that, moreover the good roll-on times are due to the mad surge of torque in the Vento which quite frankly is quite annoying in the city. Even on the highway or the ghats, i'd prefer having a linear power delivery rather than a jerky one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
Good to see you back AJ. Waiting for the new Swift, before taking the plunge, I presume. We sure would have made the GM salesmen a confused bunch by now; not letting them be sure of where this car is positioned . Some want it for the torque, some for the space, some for the wonderful ride and good rear seat to be driven in, some compare it to the Swift, some to the Manza, some to the Civic.
Not sure really. I'm really hope the new swift would have much better quality levels overall. Nothing is certain yet but if there is cost cutting on the quality front I would just walk away from Maruti for good !!!!
Hopefully MSIL deliver on that front coz after looking at the german and even korean rivals, the interior quality of the swift [new or old] has a lot of catching up to do. The swift needs to get out of its spartan go-kart image if it wants to compete in the premium hatchback market.

The OPTRA really screws up our expectations from other cars me thinks
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Old 31st July 2011, 16:07   #627
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Originally Posted by SLK View Post
Hope it was not too new a car! How about running in?
It was about a month old - don't remember the odo. Also, did not revv it incorrectly, no sudden revving, didn't go above 3K RPMs.

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Originally Posted by SLK View Post
Yes, this happens when you are not used to driving the car. Don't get me wrong! I too own an Optra, but you are not comparing it fair! Drive the Vento for a month and it will respond to your wishes [Thats my experience with all cars].
This was not meant to be a comparison. And also, it may be the case that his driving style and mine differ (I do not know about how the ECU behaves and whether it adjusts the settings as per the driving). Do remember that I had wondered whether there is a speed limiter setting done! I just posted my observations on my friend's Vento and am not bashing the Vento in a general sense in any way here.
You may see the review when I was choosing cars - I do not remember the speed issue there, and also do remember that it had decent power - here I was perplexed as to why I was not getting the power. After all, after living with the beast for 2.5 months, the memories of 'decent power' test drives fade km by km!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLK View Post
Many people on team-bhp share this perception. Whenever there is a mention of EPS, the words no feedback and very light come into that statement. Most EPS are perfectly configured speed sensitive steerings and perform better than HPS at higher speeds. I like the Optra but unfortunately the steering on my Ritz feels better at high speeds, which is an EPS.
But will the EPS give you the same feel for the heavier Optra? I too have a Swift and I have mentioned the great ease of steering. I also remember reading a post (will search for it and post the link if I can find it) regarding some Mercedes model that was launched with EPS and how user feedback made them go back to HPS for the very feel of it.

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Originally Posted by SLK View Post
Yes, you don't get used to ABS, but then do you get used to emergency braking? that too without ABS? It's not something you need to get used to, its something that is needed.
I agree - but you do get used to sudden braking considering the great traffic sense in India. If in normal circumstances, when you brake, the brake pedal does not give a shudder, in the situation of a skid, the sudden shudder may result in any kind of reflex, right from pushing it harder to letting go of the brakes - and the situation can be bad! You can train a guy to brake suddenly - but it is very difficult to show a guy how it feels when ABS kicks in.
I had a first hand feel of this only in Canada on a slippery road with snow tyres on - that too, my friend was demonstrating the ABS on his Chrysler.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLK View Post
ABS and airbags are things, which, if you don't have, might not ever get a chance to miss them!
But you also need to note a point that many vehicles have features to switch off the ABS, especially when there are kids sitting in the airbag proximity, as the airbags turn out to be more dangerous!
Again, I am not trying to undermine the effectiveness of the ABS and the airbags - they have their situational merits and demerits.

I have chosen my path as per my driving style - I have a simple philosophy - better to be dead than be a vegetable - again, this is my view for myself and not something that I would ask others to follow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAS View Post
Guys, with all fairness to the cars compared (Vento, Fluidic, NFS, Linea), these cars are a segment below the Optra.
I agree to this and had realized this at the time I had started the hunt for my car!

I would not compare these cars in normal circumstances.
But unfortunately, if the comparison starts because of similar price ranges and the Optra is dragged into the comparison, then I can't help but put in my views!
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Old 31st July 2011, 16:16   #628
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Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
How we all would like to pluck one part from one car to another to build a DIY car!!! The Optra notwithstanding, I'd take the front of the Fluidic's cabin, the rear from the Manza, steering from the Verna, suspension/chassis from the New Fiesta, the Steering from the Linea, diesel engine from the Fluidic again! And surprisingly, Overall, besides the cabin's headroom, the Vento may come closest to the overall package. But that was with the Optra out of the list
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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
The way the optra is being considered over every car and the comparison between the Vento and the Optra by keyur some posts above doesn't feel right. I trust the general Indian buyer on 1 thing for sure: that they know whats a more VFM product. Thats the reason lakhs of people tolerate the rattling of a maruti, bad a.s.s of the Tata etc. Optra is no doubt a good car but the comparison was a little too pushy and one sided.
Agree! Despite my love for the Optra, I don't think other cars are bad. As we were saying on the Tata story, different cars appeal to different people. The Vento does have a LOT going for it. GM could have done a lot of things differently for this very well made car sell better.

The DIY bit in the post above was said in a lighter mood (in the context of the discussion then), but yes, the Vento does have a lot going for it. Had the cabin been more to my taste (and if the Optra was ruled out due to some reason), I surely would have considered it very very seriously. Even after the NFF and Fluidic launch, it remains a strong overall package. They too could do with some upgrades; which seem to be on their way, BTW (I guess you would be doing your research on the Vento update @drmohitg).

Yes, the Optra is good in many ways. It by no means, means that the other's aren't good.

This thread isn't meant to be a "Optra is the greatest" thread. It is to bring out good sensible discussions on the cars in this segment and help any prospective buyer with various considerations one may have on different subjects.

Like when we were having this talk with @bansal98 about his choice and there was talk about moving across humps, he had his reasons to opt for a Vento. I didn't completely agree with the gear changing pattern, but given the weirdly high frequency of speed breakers in his daily route, his choice was understandable and I respect it.
Quote:
I hope the mods dont object to this post.
Oh! I really don't think they should. No reason. In fact, I think it is adding a lot of value to the thread. We want healthy discussions with good views on various cars. Thanks for your point of view mate.

Quote:
The GM dealer( 2 of them) near my house thought I was insane when I went to ask about the optra. One dealer didnt even have a Vehicle on display leave alone the TD. The other sheepishly said it doesn't sell. I am not plonking down 10L on a car that the company itself has dumped!
GM has been doing a terrible job with the car. Will probably get into my take on why this car isn't doing as well as it should. @MAS and @mdsaab too expressed their dissatisfaction with the dealerships. I too have had a bad experience with one (I guess we are talking about the same dealership mohit - will PM you). Your's is a classic case of the car being well suited, and the dealership totally putting one off. Usually one has heard of the VW chaps messing it up with their hoity-toity attitude. With some GM dealerships, it seems pure unprofessional. Even the official TD section of the team talks of GM dealership experiences being inconsistent.
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Old 31st July 2011, 16:43   #629
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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
the comparison between the Vento and the Optra by keyur
To me it looked like more of the owner trying to convince himself that his car is superior.
First of all, that was not a comparison - it was a narration of events, and the comments were specific to the particular car owned by my friend - the post includes his independent reactions as well as mine. I have always maintained that the Verna and the Vento are great cars by themselves - there is no point in comparing them to a car that was meant to be in another class altogether!

Do I really need to convince my self - for what I need, the Optra suits me perfectly? If you feel that I am trying to convince myself and it makes you feel better, I will agree for your sake! Thanks for your valuable feedback!

Also talking about GTO's reviews, they are great unbiased reviews and are more importantly NOT comparisons. They talk about the specific car.
GTO has also reviewed the Beat D recently and has written great stuff. That's for us to take action upon. Doesn't mean that I would go about comparing the Beat to the Vento!
All I am saying is that the very fact that the Vento is being compared to the Optra is not correct, because the only common factor is probably the price bracket!

I also do not believe in berating a product because some sales rep or showroom or dealer did not satisfy my ego or treated me badly or did not give me time - there is no point being egotical here - I am more concerned about the end product that I have to stay with - afterall, I have a lot many years to spend with my car, not with the sales rep!
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Old 31st July 2011, 16:44   #630
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

@Mods - This post may end up being back to back. This thread is suddenly moving at a crazy pace and by the time one reply is sent, there is more to post. Editing the previous one didn't seem like a good viable idea. But in case you think so, please merge it (if it still remains back to back, by the time I post this)

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Originally Posted by oxyzen View Post
I personally am a fan of short gearing. The car accelerates faster. You have the advantage of up-shifting early in you in cruising mode. The only thing that takes a toll is the FE. Which i think is ir-relevant as long as you stick to diesels.
The Optra could have done well with 6 gears. With the power on tap, and to keep city drivability in mind, that would have suited better. The Fluidic seems to score on this one. Best of both worlds, with a gem of a 1.6 motor.

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Having a good engine is one thing and gaetting the gear-ratios right is another. SX4 with the right set of ratios feel 1.5X faster than the Linea although both share the same engine. Agreed the suzuki has a bit of weight advantage.
Good point mate! The ECU settings too should be playing a role here. Also various other things. Any idea of the tyre sizes, and if they could be playing a role too? There make a big difference in the feel of the car.

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Another point that is generally overlooked is magnum weighs 1370Kg whereas the Vento weight 1190Kg. So the power to weight ratio remains almost same. Infact both are around 87 Bhp/tonne. But in torque Optra is 230Nm/tonne where Vento lags slightly with 210 BHP/tonne.
One thing which I have often wondered - why don't they add a weight of say 3-4 passengers with say 65kgs/passenger and then calculate the power/torque to weight ratios? That would be more realistic.

Besides the sheer power, it is also a lot to do with how the power is delivered. The Optra/Cruze with their comparative 'lag' (as compared to the Vento etc) seem a bit lesser suited to b2b city traffic, but then they give that surge, which some crave for. What say @Torquedo? From what I remember, Torq liked the car for this surge and 'turbolag' is more than welcome and linear power delivery is boring for him!! Isn't it amazing how we all have such different expectations?!! Makes the (automotive) world more interesting.

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Now considering 20-80 in 3rd gear, Optra might not be able to run at 20 in 3rd gear considering the fact that gearing is tall. I wonder how the tests are done. But I believe in regular driving the roll on times mean a lot.
In Gear Acceleration figures

What is sacred about 20-80? Why not 5-40, which may be a lot more relevant in the case of @bansal98? Why not 35-90, which may be more relevant in my case?

The point I am trying to make is that based on which numbers we choose, different cars can look good. On a 5-40, an Alto may outperform many. On a 35-90 it may be the Otpra/Cruze. On 20-80 it probably would be the Vento and Linea.

These figures of 20-80 can be deceptive, even though they are supposed to represent typical city driving. It varies a lot from person to person.

For each gear, different cars would have a different speed range to work with. And each of them may give give that 'tap of the throttle' acceleration - but just on a different speed. It being different doesn't mean it is poor.

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40-100 in 4th gear may make more sense as it is a comparatively narrow power-band. For Vento it is (1300-3300). How come it has such good figures in this range? It is the absence of lag as well as the decent mid-range.
Or better chosen figures It may be a totally different story with a 60-130 in forth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrenalinJunkie View Post
True that, moreover the good roll-on times are due to the mad surge of torque in the Vento which quite frankly is quite annoying in the city. Even on the highway or the ghats, i'd prefer having a linear power delivery rather than a jerky one.
@AJ, did you mean Vento or the Optra? It is usually the Vento which is praised and the Otpra (or rather the Cruze) which is junked for this.

About leniar delivery - one usually takes a while, but then gets used to non-leniar delivery. It has a learning (or rather acclimatisation) curve associated with it. Some people just give up based on a TD or two when they may not be too disturbed with it after a few weeks of driving.

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The OPTRA really screws up our expectations from other cars me thinks
+1
After TD this car, other cars become more difficult to accept or enjoy.

Edit: Just noticed another post above
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Originally Posted by keyur View Post
I also do not believe in berating a product because some sales rep or showroom or dealer did not satisfy my ego or treated me badly or did not give me time - there is no point being egotical here - I am more concerned about the end product that I have to stay with - afterall, I have a lot many years to spend with my car, not with the sales rep!
I too feel the same way. My first (or possibly second - cant recollect) experience with a Chevy showroom was rather bad (probably the same showroom as mohit). Was rather put off, but didn't want to give up on considering the car based on that. It did raise doubts on whether I want to deal with such a company and hence did the needed research (ample reading on Tbhp) and overall it seemed like a good package. Optra should cost way way lesser to maintain than most competitors. For that, I may have to tolerate the odd nonsensical guy, and I accept that. Toyota on the other hand, may not have those sorts of guys, may have cheap A$$ but will charge a lot more upfront - 15L on a 1.3 diesel (based on mohit's thread).

Last edited by Poitive : 31st July 2011 at 16:50.
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