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Old 7th August 2011, 21:10   #676
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Hi all,

I currently own a Tata Safari VX 2.2(top model) 2009, covered 16,000 kms with it which I plan to sell and so my next question is what do I got for after that?

My requirements are as follows:

1) Should run on diesel
2) Budget-9.5 lacs onroad (can stretch upto max 10 Lacs)
3) Should be niggle free/ Authorised service center should be customer friendly & efficient/Cheap on after service bills or spares ( in short complete paisa vasool-VFM)
4) Dont want anything to do with Tata/FIAT even if the car is given for free (believe me "peace of mind" is never included in a tata package)
5) Should be comfortable for me as I will be driving ( I am 6ft tall and well built)

So which sedan do I go for? I believe Hyundai Verna fluidic/Maruti SX4/Ford Fiesta-new/VW vento are my options. I am not much keen on the VW as the service center is very far from my place whereas all the others are 5km around my place.

I can even wait till December if anything new is going to come so what do I do?
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Old 7th August 2011, 21:48   #677
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by richie4u View Post
Hi all,
1) Should run on diesel
2) Budget-9.5 lacs onroad (can stretch upto max 10 Lacs)
3) Should be niggle free/ Authorised service center should be customer friendly & efficient/Cheap on after service bills or spares ( in short complete paisa vasool-VFM)
4) Dont want anything to do with Tata/FIAT even if the car is given for free (believe me "peace of mind" is never included in a tata package)
5) Should be comfortable for me as I will be driving ( I am 6ft tall and well built)

So which sedan do I go for? I believe Hyundai Verna fluidic/Maruti SX4/Ford Fiesta-new/VW vento are my options. I am not much keen on the VW as the service center is very far from my place whereas all the others are 5km around my place.

I can even wait till December if anything new is going to come so what do I do?
Hyundai Verna fluidic - Fits your requirement
Maruti SX4 - Fits your requirement better
Ford Fiesta-new/VW vento - Cant guarantee peace of mind.

My suggestion - Wait for Etios diesel. It will give you utmost peace of mind and extraordinary A$$. Pretty spacious too.
1- is met
2- should be met with ease
3- What else is better
4- Same here
5- Yup this one too.

Good luck choosing!

Last edited by oxyzen : 7th August 2011 at 21:50.
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Old 7th August 2011, 21:58   #678
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by richie4u View Post
Hi all,

I currently own a Tata Safari VX 2.2(top model) 2009, covered 16,000 kms with it which I plan to sell and so my next question is what do I got for after that?

My requirements are as follows:

1) Should run on diesel
2) Budget-9.5 lacs onroad (can stretch upto max 10 Lacs)
3) Should be niggle free/ Authorised service center should be customer friendly & efficient/Cheap on after service bills or spares ( in short complete paisa vasool-VFM)
4) Dont want anything to do with Tata/FIAT even if the car is given for free (believe me "peace of mind" is never included in a tata package)
5) Should be comfortable for me as I will be driving ( I am 6ft tall and well built)

So which sedan do I go for? I believe Hyundai Verna fluidic/Maruti SX4/Ford Fiesta-new/VW vento are my options. I am not much keen on the VW as the service center is very far from my place whereas all the others are 5km around my place.

I can even wait till December if anything new is going to come so what do I do?
SX4 suits you the best IMO keeping all your requirements.
As @oxygen rightly suggested, Toyota Diesel should be out by Dec 2011. If they plonk a good enough engine in the current Etios, and give a slightly better touch to the interiors, that should be perfect for your requirements.
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Old 7th August 2011, 23:40   #679
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by Jakku View Post
... I am scheduling the meeting for this week Thursday/ Friday and I should be able to make it this time. I am visiting along with a friend of mine who wanted to change his stock ICE of Honda City.
Well, i am quoting my own post !!!!. (this is to update if someone was looking for an update from me). There was a personal medical emergency and hence was not able to make it this week as well. Hope, I can take some time on coming Tuesday and update in this forum on the price and options available.
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Old 7th August 2011, 23:44   #680
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by richie4u View Post

So which sedan do I go for? I believe Hyundai Verna fluidic/Maruti SX4/Ford Fiesta-new/VW vento are my options.
Just as we were discussing above, the Magnum is not even present on paper as an option, although it should fulfill all the said requirements and more!
Whether you consider it or not, just test drive the Optra Magnum TCDi.
And yes, the Optra LS will definitely fit your budget and your requirements!
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Old 8th August 2011, 00:02   #681
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Just took a close look at an Optra Magnum today.
Though it was locked. It was a new vehicle and the windows had no tints to i could look in clearly.
I was really impressed with the interiors. Though the car is old. The interiors did not look dated or prehistoric at all. And the subtle hints of wood also blended well with the cabin. Yes a few things like the door locks are really old fashioned. But overall nothing you cannot live with.
Now the only thing left is to test drive one of these mature beauties.
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Old 8th August 2011, 00:09   #682
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by mdsaab View Post
Now the only thing left is to test drive one of these mature beauties.
And that only thing is the most important thing!
Do let me know where and when you plan to take the test drive and I could tag along!
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Old 8th August 2011, 00:27   #683
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Originally Posted by keyur View Post
And that only thing is the most important thing!
Do let me know where and when you plan to take the test drive and I could tag along!
After reading your ownership report, I have almost decided to replace my four year old fusion with the Magnum. You and Poitive can easily be the best fans of Optra Magnum.

I wish I get the time this week to check out the Magnum. Will keep you posted.
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Old 8th August 2011, 00:31   #684
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by MAS View Post
After reading your ownership report, I have almost decided to replace my four year old fusion with the Magnum. You and Poitive can easily be the best fans of Optra Magnum.

I wish I get the time this week to check out the Magnum. Will keep you posted.
Do the test drive and you will add yourself to the list. There are tonnes of Optra fans, but we are probably the most vocal

All the best (as you might have to struggle to get an Optra TD - but don't give up hope )
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Old 8th August 2011, 00:46   #685
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Originally Posted by keyur View Post
Do the test drive and you will add yourself to the list. There are tonnes of Optra fans, but we are probably the most vocal

All the best (as you might have to struggle to get an Optra TD - but don't give up hope )
I have driven the 2007-2008 Magnum extensively whenever I visited Mumbai. I want to test the BS-IV Optra to check the difference. I just wish I'm able to freeze on the Optra as I cannot think of a better replacement. I had the SX4 in mind, but the ordinary interiors, the constant squeaks and unsettled ride was a turn-off.

There are two dealers in Chennai: Sundaram and KLN. Would request Chevy owners to chip in as to which dealer is better.

Last edited by MAS : 8th August 2011 at 00:48.
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Old 8th August 2011, 00:51   #686
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

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Originally Posted by MAS View Post
I had the SX4 in mind, but the ordinary interiors, the constant squeaks and unsettled ride was a turn-off.
SX4! 1250CC engine . Was that not a turn off
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Old 8th August 2011, 01:05   #687
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SX4! 1250CC engine . Was that not a turn off
Yes and No!!

No - because Fusion itself has a 1.4 Litre /68 BHP engine. SX4's ground clearance was a big positive

Yes - because I wanted a more powerful car as my patience seems to be running out after driving 1.2 Lakh kms owith the Fusion. This is when I started thinking about the Optra.

I was apprehensive about General Motors due to the bad experience I had earlier (first impression), but this thread has re-kindled my interest in the brand.
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Old 8th August 2011, 02:31   #688
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Have been quite caught up with stuff and am really lagging on this thread specifically and T-Bhp in general. Please bear with me, if I pick up points discussed a while back and get to replying/adding to them later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
A New Space to Discuss Mods to Optra Magnum
(for Optra owners and for potential owners)

-----------------------
Link to the thread to discuss Modifications and upgrades to Optra Magnum

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...ml#post2452005 (Optra Magnum - Place to discuss all your mods - ICE, Tyre, Gizmos etc.)
As we know this thread was closed down. Had written to the mods with the thoughts behind creating that space. Got a fairly short but reasonable answer. What I understood was that it was a part of a broader policy to keep things in various sections, which is totally understandable.

I did see merit in the thread, especially to help Jakku, NoRules, Prabhu and others considering the Optra to sort out issues and take things further. But keeping the overall bigger picture in mind, closing the thread is perfectly understandable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
All the 'beast' for your purchase mate
That sounds more appropriate for cars like the Optra and Cruze etc!

Linea and Optra Sales Plunging Downwards

Sales for
April-May-June-July
  • Optra: 368-240-241-121
    .
  • Linea: 810-845-350-175
    .
  • New Ford Fiesta: NA-NA-NA-781 <- ADDED THIS ONLY NOW
-----------------------
Guys, any thoughts on these developments?
Thanks for sharing your views @Ajay, @Oxyzen, @Raj, @Khoj, @SLK, @Keyur, @Vb @Prabhu. (pardon me in case I missed anyone).

Wanted to add some thoughts here. Maybe later sometime. In the meantime, will just copy a post made on the July Sales thread, after some posts made about the Optra and ANHC sales etc. to share a part of the views on the matter. (A post on the Linea was deleted from that thread)

The part below has been extracted from this post: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post2455496 (July 2011 : Indian Car Sales Figures)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by souravc
On the overall numbers when i see the figures for ANHC and Optra , they tell a very contrasting story . ANHC is a quality product which is flying off the shelf when right priced, its non existent diesel option handicap notwithstanding. On the other hand even dirt cheap pricing for Optra coupled with a diesel mill isn't making the sales go anywhere ! Overall shows how we have matured as consumers - we hunt for bargains but are cautious about iffy products / brands.
Would be interesting to understand what is seen as 'matured customers', mate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oxyzen
The fact is Optra is dated.
I have seen few people bragging to an unreasonable level about Optra, but the fact is if Optra wants to compete with the competition, it has to get a makeover. Other than space and power I dont see anything. The design is 2 generations old. And most people avoid cars that dont sell because of spares availability. (The biggest Marketing of a car is the number on roads.)
And then why buy a new magnum if the pre-worshipped ones are available at great value?
Quote:
Originally Posted by prabhuferrari
Dated, yes. But you cannot call it iffy. Even civic sells very low.
Quote:
Originally Posted by souravc
What more proof do you want when the sales trend stare at your face? Optra cannot even be termed as an also ran
Optra Magnum Diesel

With all this talk about Otpra being brought to my notice, couldn't help commenting

@sauravc, @oxyzen -

Oh yes! I too have seen what can be termed as unreasonable bragging about the Optra. It has it's share of issues which don't make it sell - dated look, not seen as a successful car to be in, herd mentality (or better explained by oxyzen above), GM itself not really promoting it (am surprised how people, including me have forgotten at times that this car even did exist; many people still imagine it to be at around 12L, reports of TD cars not being easily available, TD cars being in bad shape, not putting a better HU, even though it needs little extra cost given the slot is a regular Double-DIN, etc). The above brings in enough doubt in a potential customer if this car is even going to be around after a while (as a potential buyer, I have had that too), if spares are going to be available. Most people won't go around doing research on the above and probably will take lesser informed decisions or calculated risks.

My guess is that GM isn't investing in this car for two reasons - that it has has to deal with the Beat D, Updated Aveo/Uva and Cruze to deal with first; and also that an improved Optra may hurt it's flagship (segment leader) Cruze in a significant way, as it is more practical than the Cruze.

But all that doesn't take away from it being a very well engineered car.
Having recently Test Driven most of the cars in the segment recently would like to add (and I am specifically talking about the diesel Optra Magnum, have been told that the petrol/older model was no where close to this one)-

Besides the huge power (and torque, which really has to be 'felt' than put on paper) and space, which oxyzen mentioned, the it also has the following -
* An All Wheel Independent suspension (What other cars upto 15L have this?)
* A Hydraulic Steering (again how many?)
* All 4 disc brakes (IIRC, only the Linea T-jet and now the Fluidic have it in this price segment; the Fluidic was devoid of the bite and was nowhere as composed)
* By far the best ride in the segment.
* By far the best composure at high speeds across different road surfaces and situations.
* Despite the bodyroll, very good handling as well. More assured than most. (Isn't too agile, especially at lower/moderate speeds, though)
* A cabin which can seat 5 in reasonable comfort.
* Low and known cost of maintenance (max 32k for 45k - over that is paid by GM)

Optra Petrol in general, initial pricing, poor image of high maintenance (from the Opel Astra days), possibly being introduced at the wrong time, not enough change between the older Optra and the Optra Magnum would be other possible reasons for this not to do well.

There are many reasons for what numbers a car shows in it's sales figures. Ask Fiat (Linea), Mitsubishi(Cedia) (and depending how we see it, possibly even Rolls Royce!! )

If sales were the way to judge a product, Maruti would have been the only manufacturer and Cedia would have probably been the worst C/C+ segment sedan.

PS: And might I add, IMO the interior quality (quality, not design) of the Optra is better than NFF, Vento, questionably about as good as Verna (I really liked the interiors quality on the Fluidic), SX4, Linea, Manza!! Team-Bhp Test Drives also rate the Optra's reliability as "Excellent". Really do NOT see that as Iffy quality. Dated looks - yes. Iffy quality - no. Ask the owners of this car. I could go on, but realized that I already overdid it for this thread. More on the Spacious Diesel Sedans or Driven! thread, if you wish to discuss it further.

PPS: Yes, I like the Optra package, but am not blind to where it doesn't do too well. Just that the Optra (Magnum Diesel) is not tried out enough, before an opinion is formed about it.

Whew! What all I do for this car. Wonder if GM ever bothered enough about this. LOL
Edit: Hey Sauravc and Oxyzen, hope you don't mind me putting this up here. Am adding this as an edit. Had put it up to take the subject of plunging Optra and Linea sales further. Hope it is not seen as anything personal. However, just in case you think this merits some further discussion, it may be a good place to discuss it, rather than crowding the sales thread, which has a much broader audience, hence making a detailed discussion on this less relevant there.

Last edited by Poitive : 8th August 2011 at 02:35. Reason: Added link, Edit note in the end.
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Old 8th August 2011, 10:11   #689
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by prabhuferrari View Post

Are these alloys available for Optra Magnum?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Back to topic on spacious diesel sedan.

Is Tata Manza going to release a new version? Dr.Suraj had posted this in July 2011 car sales thread

"the Manza LE should be out this month (which btw I might be going for, but a full story dedicated to that later)"

Does anyone know what Manza LE is?
Alloys - AFAIK, the company has only one type being shipped. Aftermarket - you should have many many options. Not sure what part you were referring to, Prabhu.

Thanks for that 'scoop' about the Manza. Hadn't heard about it. Could you share more details, or at least the link to that post, so that others too could follow that.

Could the Manza LE be the shortened sub-4m Manza (a la Indigo CS)?

The difference between Manza's 1248cc and Optra's 1991cc engines is huge. And it goes well beyond the engine. Suggest you try and do a back to back TD to make sure what you would want to go for. I think I was suggested to do one in the first few pages of this thread too

Quote:
Originally Posted by richie4u View Post
Hi all,

I currently own a Tata Safari VX 2.2(top model) 2009, covered 16,000 kms with it which I plan to sell and so my next question is what do I got for after that?

My requirements are as follows:

1) Should run on diesel
2) Budget-9.5 lacs onroad (can stretch upto max 10 Lacs)
3) Should be niggle free/ Authorised service center should be customer friendly & efficient/Cheap on after service bills or spares ( in short complete paisa vasool-VFM)
4) Dont want anything to do with Tata/FIAT even if the car is given for free (believe me "peace of mind" is never included in a tata package)
5) Should be comfortable for me as I will be driving ( I am 6ft tall and well built)

So which sedan do I go for? I believe Hyundai Verna fluidic/Maruti SX4/Ford Fiesta-new/VW vento are my options. I am not much keen on the VW as the service center is very far from my place whereas all the others are 5km around my place.
Niggle free - Is there anything besides the Japs for this?
Honda and Toyota don't have relevant models. So the SX4 it is, with this requirement. It also has the big advantage with it GC. I had a major issue with it's A-pillar design. Especially when I consider driving on curved hill roads. Though Maruti's are supposed to be prone to rattling, the SX4 is known to be 'relatively' better.

But if you are willing to look a bit beyond the niggles aspect and accept a small gamble, it opens up more options. With it's reputed A$$, Hyundai gives you the Fluidic Verna, which IMO is suited if you don't expect to use the rear seat too much and it is usually going to be driven in the city/ upto 80kmph. I would not recommend this for the highway.

I too am 6' and have mentioned my experience with the Vento a few times on the thread - I could not sit straight in the rear seat due to lack of headroom (a video review does show a 6'4" person sitting there though). It was the same experience when I checked it again. IMO, the cabin lacked a plush feel. Ingress too was an issue with my height and well 'well built'!! If you are OK with the cabin, it is a good all-rounder, though not the most silent one. The 1.6 engine is fun to use.

There would be little space behind your seat in the NFF. The motor doesn't seem eager enough. @carfreak77 went in for this one, even though he is 6'2". You could get in touch with him to know more about his decision process. It is a very composed car for it's size.

Given the body structure and height and that you are used to the huge space of the Safari, Don't think any of the above cabins will feel big enough. I too started my purchase decision with the same issue. Narrowed down to the Optra Magnum and Manza. For you, the Manza is out of the window. So it leaves you with the Optra Magnum! Just go through this thread and you will find many opinions about it. It should help you in making up your mind.

BTW, from what I know, even the Scorpio is relatively niggle-free and is cheap to maintain for it's size. Is an SUV, which you are used to. I didn't like the handling on the casual drives I have had on this and wasn't my cuppa at all, especially with it's high CG etc. But it may work for you, even though the cabin isn't as spacious as the external size suggests.

I hope you have gone through the Driven! thread, which is a sort of sister thread to this one.

PS: The Tbhp rated the Optra Magnum's reliability as Excellent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakku View Post
Well, i am quoting my own post !!!!. (this is to update if someone was looking for an update from me). There was a personal medical emergency and hence was not able to make it this week as well. Hope, I can take some time on coming Tuesday and update in this forum on the price and options available.
Thanks for the update mate. Hope the medical bit is well taken care of and that things are fine at your end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdsaab View Post
Just took a close look at an Optra Magnum today.
Though it was locked. It was a new vehicle and the windows had no tints to i could look in clearly.
I was really impressed with the interiors. Though the car is old. The interiors did not look dated or prehistoric at all. And the subtle hints of wood also blended well with the cabin. Yes a few things like the door locks are really old fashioned. But overall nothing you cannot live with.
Now the only thing left is to test drive one of these mature beauties.
The interiors ARE high quality. Make no mistake about that!

@mdaaab, @MAS - Guys, you may remember that there have been issues reported with TD vehicles on this thread. My impression is that many of them are very poorly maintained. Keep that in mind while forming an impression about this car. Or best, try and get a TD on one of the better ones, if possible. Eagerly waiting to hear your comments on the car after your TDs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAS View Post
After reading your ownership report, I have almost decided to replace my four year old fusion with the Magnum. You and Poitive can easily be the best fans of Optra Magnum.

I wish I get the time this week to check out the Magnum. Will keep you posted.
Ah mate! If you get a good enough TD or if you end up owning one you too are likely to be a 'fan' of this car! Given you drive a Fusion, I take it that you are fond of driving and would look beyond gizmos.

It is a car with many merits and I just acknowledge that. I do see the issues with it owning it too, but they seem small, given the overall package, especially given the price it is offered at.

Last edited by Poitive : 8th August 2011 at 10:13.
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Old 8th August 2011, 13:24   #690
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Default Re: Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L

Quote:
Originally Posted by keyur View Post
Just as we were discussing above, the Magnum is not even present on paper as an option, although it should fulfill all the said requirements and more!
Whether you consider it or not, just test drive the Optra Magnum TCDi.
And yes, the Optra LS will definitely fit your budget and your requirements!
Even I have noticed on several threads that Magnum is never considered as an alternate option to Vento / Linea / NFF / ANHC / ANHV at all. Sad really.

On Saturday I was at a party and was talking to few friends about my booking of Magnum and immediate reaction of a car enthusiast friend who drives a Skoda was: 'All GM cars are bakwaas, high maintenance cost and no reasle value.' When I asked him few pointed questions about whether he ever drove a Magnum, whether he is aware of CPCO / Chevy promise, did he ever explore used cars market, he had no answer. It is just a perception and unfortunately all prevailing. Another friend who is a long time user of Optra Royale also joined me in defense of Chevy. I also challenged the doubter to drive my Magnum as and when I get it and then compare it with his Skoda.

GM started doing a little to remove this perception with their Zero-expenditure campaign but it is not enough. A beautiful car like Magnum needs to be brought to the notice of prospective buyers with aggressive ad campaigns.
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